Swine Flu vax does NOT mean you won't get sick

[mefordis]

I thought this was very interesting and thought I'd share:

From Section 12.1 of the Novartis 2009 H1N1 package insert:
Mechanism of Action
"...antibody titers (after) vaccination with inactivated influenza H1N1 virus vaccine have not been correlated with protection from influenza illness. In some human studies, antibody titer of ≥1:40 have been associated with protection from influenza illness in up to 50% of subjects."

What this says, in plain language, is that having an H1N1 antibody after getting an H1N1 shot has no correlation with not getting sick. And that a sizable antibody titer (of 1:40 or greater) only protects UP TO 50% of people from getting the flu -- meaning that the vaccine is a 50:50 deal at best for keeping you from getting sick.

 

[livie1205]

Thats why we get the flu mist (live ) and not the inactivated shot.

 

[lsyorke]

It's always interesting what you learn when you read the fine print of a drug insert.

 

[mefordis]

It is really disappointing. I was hoping this vaccine would keep people from getting sick.

 

[Geoff_M]

It is really disappointing. I was hoping this vaccine would keep people from getting sick.

Well then rejoice and be happy, because while the insert talks about theoretical effectiveness from "some" early trials, other such trials have shown the vaccine to be much more effective then expected:

There's more good news from the international front. In the New England Journal of Medicine on Thursday, researchers in Australia and Britain reported the early findings of their H1N1 vaccine studies. Preliminary data from the Australian trial showed that 21 days after getting one shot, 96% of the 240 trial volunteers ages 18 to 64 generated an impressive amount of antibodies to the virus. The results were "unanticipated," according to the authors; health officials had expected that people would need two doses of the vaccine for full protection because H1N1 is a new flu virus to most of the population.

Also, even if it were "only" 50%, that would still prevent a great deal of illnesses and deaths as each effective outcome would not only prevent that person from possible infection, but also others that they might have also passed the virus on to.

 

[MAKmom]

Thats why we get the flu mist (live ) and not the inactivated shot.

My Doctor does not think the flu mist is safe & will not give it out. He also said anyone who was born in the 1970's probably have already been exposed to the swine flu. It will first be given to the 20s & under group.

 

[kilee]

Getting the seasonal flu shot does not fully protect you from the seasonal flu strains either. Last year EVERY employee at work got the immunization. In February we had 9 employees test positive for the flu over a 10 day period.

 

[Geoff_M]

My Doctor does not think the flu mist is safe & will not give it out. He also said anyone who was born in the 1970's probably have already been exposed to the swine flu. It will first be given to the 20s & under group.

I think your Doc needs to do a little more reading on the matter... the "Swine Flu" of 1976 is NOT the same variant as the H1N1 that's being passed around now.

 

[bumbershoot]

Thats why we get the flu mist (live ) and not the inactivated shot.

Sniff the mist, sneeze on others at the pharmacy, yay, you might have just transmitted it to them. Thanks!


(says Molly, who got drastically (for a couple days, yay for fevers!) flu-ishly sick 1.5 days after spending a stinkin' HOUR at Walgreens in the area while they were doing that snorty seasonal flu mist thing...)

 

[Geoff_M]

Getting the seasonal flu shot does not fully protect you from the seasonal flu strains either. Last year EVERY employee at work got the immunization. In February we had 9 employees test positive for the flu over a 10 day period.

Nope, no vaccine is 100% effective. But their usefulness isn't in preventing ALL cases of an illness, it's to "squelch" a pandemic by providing enough immunity to the population such that its transmission can't be sustained and it effectively "goes away".

If you want to see that we're up against as compared to the normal "flu season" take a look at the graph on this update from the CDC!!!

 

[Geoff_M]

Sniff the mist, sneeze on others at the pharmacy, yay, you might have just transmitted it to them. Thanks!


(says Molly, who got drastically (for a couple days, yay for fevers!) flu-ishly sick 1.5 days after spending a stinkin' HOUR at Walgreens in the area while they were doing that snorty seasonal flu mist thing...)

One small problem with that theory.... the live virus in the FluMist is "cold-adapted" such that it can't survive or replicate at human body temperatures beyond the cooler temperatures of the nose. While sneezing may transmit the virus to others, the virus is also effectively "doomed" when it reaches the 2nd person.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

There isn't a flu shot that does protect you 100%.

The seasonal flu shot only protects you 70%.

 

[livie1205]

Sniff the mist, sneeze on others at the pharmacy, yay, you might have just transmitted it to them. Thanks!


(says Molly, who got drastically (for a couple days, yay for fevers!) flu-ishly sick 1.5 days after spending a stinkin' HOUR at Walgreens in the area while they were doing that snorty seasonal flu mist thing...)

THAT is not how it works....I can only give it to someone (maybe) if I went to see someone in the hospital getting a bone marrow transplant....maybe others should do research....and YOUR WELCOME I will NOT be the one taking my family to wdw and passing around h1n1! and only really rude people sneeze on you...my dd3 even knows to cover her sneezes....

 

[livie1205]

One small problem with that theory.... the live virus in the FluMist is "cold-adapted" such that it can't survive or replicate at human body temperatures beyond the cooler temperatures of the nose. While sneezing may transmit the virus to others, the virus is also effectively "doomed" when it reaches the 2nd person.

THANK YOU!!! someone who knows what they are saying...I did TONS on research before I gave it to my kids.

 

[GoodFairies]

Nope, no vaccine is 100% effective. But their usefulness isn't in preventing ALL cases of an illness, it's to "squelch" a pandemic by providing enough immunity to the population such that its transmission can't be sustained and it effectively "goes away".

I'm always glad to see people who give out useful, accurate information when it comes to discussing germs/illness on these forums. It's so rare.

 

[lsyorke]

One small problem with that theory.... the live virus in the FluMist is "cold-adapted" such that it can't survive or replicate at human body temperatures beyond the cooler temperatures of the nose. While sneezing may transmit the virus to others, the virus is also effectively "doomed" when it reaches the 2nd person.

I work in a hospital (very large well known facility) and we have been informed in writing that if we opt for the flu mist, we will not be allowed to work for 7 days. This directive came from the infection control department of the facility.

 

[Geoff_M]

I work in a hospital (very large well known facility) and we have been informed in writing that if we opt for the flu mist, we will not be allowed to work for 7 days. This directive came from the infection control department of the facility.

That makes perfect sense since you're sopposed to avoid people that are in protective isolation due to being severly immunocompromized...like can be found in hospitals.

 

[CowboyCO]

My Doctor does not think the flu mist is safe & will not give it out. He also said anyone who was born in the 1970's probably have already been exposed to the swine flu. It will first be given to the 20s & under group.

The 1970 outbreak was not pandemic and was a different strain, and not much of the population got the flu then. However, there was a pandemic outbreak in 1957 of a strain similar to the current H1N1, which explains why seniors have the lowest death rate among all age groups for this swine flu. For seasonal flu, seniors make up the largest percentage group of deaths due to complications.

 

[MAKmom]

The 1970 outbreak was not pandemic and was a different strain, and not much of the population got the flu then. However, there was a pandemic outbreak in 1957 of a strain similar to the current H1N1, which explains why seniors have the lowest death rate among all age groups for this swine flu. For seasonal flu, seniors make up the largest percentage group of deaths due to complications.

When he explained it to me I was very ill.

He did say over the over 65 crowd are not expected to get the swine flu shot. But he said those born in the 70's would not get as sick as those not. He said that is why we are just hearing about kids/young adults dying.

 

[Wonderlandmom]

But he said those born in the 70's would not get as sick as those not. He said that is why we are just hearing about kids/young adults dying.

You may want to get a new Dr. He is misinformed.

I posted this on another thread where you stated this, look at the ages.


In Florida the latest deaths when last I posted this:

Additional laboratory confirmed H1N1 Swine Flu deaths have been verified in the following: a 41-year-old female in Alachua County, a 46-year-old female in Broward County, a 25-year-old male in Duval County, a 55-year-old female in Duval County, a 56-year-old female in Duval County, a 39-year-old male in Hillsborough County, a 47-year-old female in Hillsborough County, a 13-year-old female in Levy County, a 27-year-old female in Manatee County, a 39-year-old male in Pinellas County, and a 52-year-old male in Santa Rosa County. While most cases of H1N1 Swine Flu are mild, there are exceptions. Pre-existing health conditions often play a role in how individuals react to the flu. To-date, there have been 102 laboratory confirmed H1N1 Swine Flu deaths in Florida.

I found some tables here and the HIGHEST percentage of hospitalizations in FL right now are ages 25-49. I am in my 40's and was around in the 70's...
Table 5 and 9 at the bottom
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/Disease_ctrl/epi/swineflu/Reports/reports.htm