Swine Flu News

[sbell111]

I haven't seen this information yet.. Could you provide a link that states if you have already had H1N1 you will not get it again?

Thanks!

Seriously?

I'm too lazy to do a simple google search to pull this up, but think about how a vaccine works. You build antibodies to that flu strain and then you can't catch it. Similarly, if you catch the flu, you build antibodies to that strain and then can't catch it again.

I have to agree.. I just finished reading "The Great Deluge - Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans, and the Mississippi Gulf
Coast" by Douglas Brinkley - a fact based account.. FEMA did not only drop the ball for NOLA - but ALL of the Mississippi coast.. There were also serious problems with FEMA during the first 2 hurricanes my brother went through when he first moved to Florida a number of years ago..

I would be hard pressed to rely on FEMA to insure my safety - or that of my family..

There have been a wicked lot of changes to FEMA since Katrina.

 

[Pennykay]

H1N1 is very new. I don't think anyone can say for sure that if you get it once you are immune in the future. Also, viruses often mutate, so the H1N1 virus a person gets in June could be a very different virus in October.

 

[C.Ann]

Seriously?

I'm too lazy to do a simple google search to pull this up, but think about how a vaccine works. You build antibodies to that flu strain and then you can't catch it. Similarly, if you catch the flu, you build antibodies to that strain and then can't catch it again..

Yes - seriously.. I have done a ton of reading on this and have yet to see any information that states you will not get this particular strain of flu again if you have already had it once.. (Thus just one of the reasons they have discouraged "Swine Flu Parties" - people purposely exposing themselves to it now so they will have a milder version - in hopes that they won't get it again when the cases start flaring up again early this fall..) If you have a link, I would be happy to read it - and I'm sure anyone who has already had it would be very, very happy to read it!!

H1N1 is very new. I don't think anyone can say for sure that if you get it once you are immune in the future. Also, viruses often mutate, so the H1N1 virus a person gets in June could be a very different virus in October.

Correct.. And if what is happening in other parts of the world right now is in fact "mutations", having had H1N1 previously would more than likely offer no protection at all..

Still lots of unanswered questions as things are shifting on a daily basis..

 

[MickeyMomTo2]

Although I think sbell111 could be much nicer in tone, I do think that if you are sick, and then you are exposed to the EXACT same strain of flu, you have immunity. The reason we have to have yearly vaccines, however, is that flu viruses mutate. Still, a person who had novel H1N1 (swine flu) in June would probably have some protection later if mutations were minimal.

I have read several articles mentioning that people who have had several flu vaccines including other H1N1 strains or who have been sick with another H1N1 flu previously could react better to this novel strain than those who haven't. This doesn't mean they are immune, just that their bodies respond somewhat better because they have been exposed to a "relative."

 

[C.Ann]

Although I think sbell111 could be much nicer in tone, I do think that if you are sick, and then you are exposed to the EXACT same strain of flu, you have immunity. The reason we have to have yearly vaccines, however, is that flu viruses mutate. Still, a person who had novel H1N1 (swine flu) in June would probably have some protection later if mutations were minimal.

I have read several articles mentioning that people who have had several flu vaccines including other H1N1 strains or who have been sick with another H1N1 flu previously could react better to this novel strain than those who haven't. This doesn't mean they are immune, just that their bodies respond somewhat better because they have been exposed to a "relative."

I think many of us here are looking for "facts" and that's why the links are so helpful.. I read every single one that is posted here - and hope they will continue on a daily basis so that we can all stay informed with the latest factual, accurate information.. You guys are doing a great job with the links! Keep them coming..

 

[crusoe2]

First of all, thanks to all of you who are taking the time to do research and providing updates and links to more info. I teach and start back to work next week - students come back the week after that. So I'm trying to be as prepared and informed as I can be.

Second, I wanted to address the issue regarding not being able to get the same flu twice. In March and April of 2007 I believe I did just that. Both kids had the flu (albeit with very different symptoms) and I came down with the exact same symptoms as DD. She had been to the doctor and officially diagnosed so we know that hers was definitely flu and figured mine must have been as well. I was unable to get to the doctor for an official diagnosis cause by the time I came down with it, we were having some major weather issues (numerous tornadoes including one that killed students at a high school not far from here). Anyway, about a month or so later, I got the same thing again. I had the exact same symptoms which were very distinct - an extremely severe "buzzing" headache and awful nausea. I would have thought it was just a stomach virus both times if DD hadn't been diagnosed with flu for the same symptoms. Plus I heard later about other people in the area who also got flu twice that year. Very unusual, I know, but it looks like that with some strains it can happen.

 

[sbell111]

Yes - seriously.. I have done a ton of reading on this and have yet to see any information that states you will not get this particular strain of flu again if you have already had it once.. (Thus just one of the reasons they have discouraged "Swine Flu Parties" - people purposely exposing themselves to it now so they will have a milder version - in hopes that they won't get it again when the cases start flaring up again early this fall..) If you have a link, I would be happy to read it - and I'm sure anyone who has already had it would be very, very happy to read it!! Until then, it's just an assumption on your part and right now people are trying to keep track of the known facts.. KWIM?

This strain of flu is not magical in nature. It is a flu virus. If you catch it, you build antibodies against that strain. As long as they virus doesn't significantly mutate, those antibodies will protect you against catching the flu again.

Correct.. And if what is happening in other parts of the world right now is in fact "mutations", having had H1N1 previously would more than likely offer no protection at all..

That is not correct.

Every year, a vaccine is produced against the flu strains that are expected to hit that year. Production of these vaccines are started many months before flu season begins. So far ahead, in fact, that the flus that hit are often much different than those that are expected. Still, even these imperfectly matched vaccines give a good deal of protection against these mutated flu viruses.

Here's a link from CDC that pretty much says the same thing.

 

[sbell111]

H1N1 is very new. I don't think anyone can say for sure that if you get it once you are immune in the future. Also, viruses often mutate, so the H1N1 virus a person gets in June could be a very different virus in October.

This strain of flu is new in the same way that every year's seasonal flu is new. Still, it is flu. ONce you get a particular strain of flu, you build antibodies to it and, therefore, cannot get it again. This is cold hard medical fact.

If the virus were to significantly mutate, your immunity would be reduced, but it wouldn't be completely gone, in the same way that those individuals who lived through the Spanish Flu outbreak in 1918 flu have an amount of immunity to the H1N1 flu virus, even though it is not an identical flu strain.

Here's a link to that, if you need one.

 

[MickeyMomTo2]

First of all, thanks to all of you who are taking the time to do research and providing updates and links to more info. I teach and start back to work next week - students come back the week after that. So I'm trying to be as prepared and informed as I can be.

Second, I wanted to address the issue regarding not being able to get the same flu twice. In March and April of 2007 I believe I did just that. Both kids had the flu (albeit with very different symptoms) and I came down with the exact same symptoms as DD. She had been to the doctor and officially diagnosed so we know that hers was definitely flu and figured mine must have been as well. I was unable to get to the doctor for an official diagnosis cause by the time I came down with it, we were having some major weather issues (numerous tornadoes including one that killed students at a high school not far from here). Anyway, about a month or so later, I got the same thing again. I had the exact same symptoms which were very distinct - an extremely severe "buzzing" headache and awful nausea. I would have thought it was just a stomach virus both times if DD hadn't been diagnosed with flu for the same symptoms. Plus I heard later about other people in the area who also got flu twice that year. Very unusual, I know, but it looks like that with some strains it can happen.

It is possible that you had the flu twice, but it is not likely that you had the exact same flu twice. There are usually at least two seasonal strains making the round each year, meaning you can be sickened by a flu virus more than once in a season, just not the same virus.

Here are some links to answer this question. Some of them are swine flu specific, some are not. Sorry I didn't cut and paste the specific parts that are relevant. I am being lazy. I know I have read other articles, but I don't have time to find them now. I will post more when I see them, but some of you are so good at posting articles, you usually beat me! I am thankful for all the info here!

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/swineflugraphic.pdf

http://www.realsimple.com/health/pr...d-flu-allergies/cold-flu-faqs-10000001555280/

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/science_for_kids/33122

 

[sbell111]

Second, I wanted to address the issue regarding not being able to get the same flu twice. In March and April of 2007 I believe I did just that. ...

Each year, there are a number of strains of seasonal flu virus. In 2007, the annual vaccine provided protection against three different strains.

If you catch one strain of flu, you will build antibodies that will protect you from catching that strain again, but they will not give you complete protection against the other strains.

 

[crusoe2]

It is possible that you had the flu twice, but it is not likely that you had the exact same flu twice. There are usually at least two seasonal strains making the round each year, meaning you can be sickened by a flu virus more than once in a season, just not the same virus.

Here are some links to answer this question. Some of them are swine flu specific, some are not. Sorry I didn't cut and paste the specific parts that are relevant. I am being lazy. I know I have read other articles, but I don't have time to find them now. I will post more when I see them, but some of you are so good at posting articles, you usually beat me! I am thankful for all the info here!

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/swineflugraphic.pdf

http://www.realsimple.com/health/pr...d-flu-allergies/cold-flu-faqs-10000001555280/

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/science_for_kids/33122

Thanks for the links - I'll check those out. I tend to agree with the idea that you can't get the same flu twice - that idea goes against what I've always been taught about flu. But the symptoms were exactly the same both times - I've never had that happen before. Not even with multiple cases of strep - everytime it's a little different. Anyway, this particular flu started with a headache unlike any other headache I've ever had - it was very distinct and I can't think of any other way to describe it than to call it a buzzing kind of pain. And I don't mean buzzing as in "high" - but more like a sharp, vibrating type of pain that was so severe it was hard to hear, talk, or concentrate on anything. Nothing I took did the headache any good. A couple hours later, the nausea started. All sypmtoms were exactly the same both times and lasted for about the same amount of time. My first thought was that DD had just been misdiagnosed but apparently, whatever it was, it was viral in nature so wouldn't the same rule apply - that you can't get the exact same virus twice? Plus, like I said, other people had it twice that year and talked about it being the same both times. Now we did see the different flu strains in action that year cause DS's symptoms were very different from mine and DD's but he was also diagnosed with flu - and we were all sick the same week. (Not fun.)

 

[C.Ann]

It is possible that you had the flu twice, but it is not likely that you had the exact same flu twice. There are usually at least two seasonal strains making the round each year, meaning you can be sickened by a flu virus more than once in a season, just not the same virus.

Here are some links to answer this question. Some of them are swine flu specific, some are not. Sorry I didn't cut and paste the specific parts that are relevant. I am being lazy. I know I have read other articles, but I don't have time to find them now. I will post more when I see them, but some of you are so good at posting articles, you usually beat me! I am thankful for all the info here!

http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/pdfs/swineflugraphic.pdf

http://www.realsimple.com/health/pr...d-flu-allergies/cold-flu-faqs-10000001555280/

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/science_for_kids/33122

------------------------------------------------------

"So, how can you get the flu twice? Doesn't your body build up immunity? When you get the flu, your body builds up antibodies (proteins that fight disease in your body) that respond to that particular virus. The next time you get the same flu, your body would recognize the virus and produce antibodies to fight off the flu. The problem is, these antibodies will not protect you if the influenza virus has changed its structure. Viruses can change their structure during the replicating process. That is when the influenza uses its own RNA (an acid in a living cell that carries the codes for genetic information) to make new RNA messengers that will instruct the infected cell to make more viral proteins.

When the virus makes the new RNA, it makes an exact copy of itself, like a mirror image. Influenza virus does not have a system to notice or correct for errors during this process. These errors can make changes to the new virus that are different enough that your immune system cannot recognize it. If the immune system does not recognize it, it will not be able to produce antibodies against this new virus. Without antibodies, the virus can go about its business of infecting your cells. This process is called antigenic drift, a gradual evolution of the virus or small mutations that change the proteins in the virus. These changes can cause epidemics of flu."

Copied and pasted from one of your links..



Thanks for those links! If I'm reading this right - and I don't have my dunce cap on today (which is always a possibility - LOL) - it appears that any slight shift from a pattern (or mutation) - makes the difference in whether or not you will get the flu again (any flu)..

That's what I like - factual information (with links) right from the get-go..

Keep the links coming!

 

[sbell111]

Thanks for those links! If I'm reading this right - and I don't have my dunce cap on today (which is always a possibility - LOL) - it appears that any slight shift from a pattern (or mutation) - makes the difference in whether or not you will get the flu again (any flu)..

That's what I like - factual information (with links) right from the get-go..

Keep the links coming!

Close, but not quite. It actually takes a significant mutation for the antibodies to become ineffective. Please see the link that I posted before regarding this issue.

 

[C.Ann]

Close, but not quite. It actually takes a significant mutation for the antibodies to become ineffective. Please see the link that I posted before regarding this issue.

Are you politely trying to tell me I have my dunce cap on today? It's really annoying when I have to go searching for one of my other hats..

Sigh.. I will read again - and again - and again - and - well - you get it..

 

[MickeyMomTo2]

Here's a real life example...

In 2003, there was a strain of H3N2 flu included in the seasonal vaccine. However, the strain mutated before winter (it was the Fujian flu--see HERE).

My son was two at the time, and he had been vaccinated. He still got sick, but it was a milder case. Being the nice child that he is, he shared the virus with us. My husband and I had not been vaccinated, and we were VERY sick. (At one point I had the thought that if my house was burning down, I wouldn't bother getting up--it was enough to convince me to get the vaccine every year since.) So, even though there was a mutation, my son still had SOME protection.

In the case of this swine flu, those who have had it or who get the vaccine can still get sick if the virus changes, but they will still have protection because some components will still be recognizable by the immune system.

 

[AlexWyattMommy]

Here is a CDC link that explains what happens when the picked strain for the vaccine doesn't exactly match the one circulating at the time and why you need to the vax every year.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

It doesn't say how much drift is needed before the vax doesn't work well. I'll see what I can find on that.

 

[AlexWyattMommy]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/hsc-scen-3_flu-antigenic.htm

The link above does a really great job showing you how the virus changes.
Love the graphics on this page.

Here is the main idea -

If the HA antigen changes shape, antibodies that normally would match up to it no longer can, allowing the newly mutated virus to infect the body’s cells. This type of genetic mutation is called “antigenic drift.”

Influenza viruses can change through antigenic drift, which is a process in which mutations to the virus genome produce changes in the viral H or N. Drift is a continuous ongoing process that results in the emergence of new strain variants. The amount of change can be subtle or dramatic, but eventually one of the new variant strains becomes dominant, usually for a few years, until a new variant emerges and replaces it. In essence, drift affects the influenza viruses that are already in worldwide circulation. This process allows influenza viruses to change and re-infect people repeatedly through their lifetime and is the reason the influenza virus strains in vaccine must be updated each year.

 

[JessicaR]

I know we would all like cold hard facts and answers that are concrete. Doesn't seem possible to me. This is a new virus. I believe the strain has mutated in a few cases already (London). Brazil too I think.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23719388-details/article.do?ito=newsnow&

Is it possible to catch swine flu twice?

Yes, because the virus can mutate (change). If you become infected with the swine flu virus, your body produces antibodies against it, which will recognise and fight off the virus if the body ever encounters it again. However, if the virus mutates, your immune system may not recognise this different strain and you may become ill again, although you may have some 'cross protection' due to encountering a similar virus previously.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/QA.aspx

If I get sick with H1N1 Flu Virus once, does that give me immunity or can I get infected with it again?

Typically, when a person is infected with an influenza virus and recovers, they develop antibodies that provide them with immunity to that particular virus. However, this is a new virus, and we continue to work with international partners to learn more about how it affects people and how it spreads.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/swine-porcine/faq_rg_swine-eng.php

Antibodies can last a lifetime and chances are if you have contracted swine flu, and it does mutate, you will have some level of cross-protection.

 

[C.Ann]

I know we would all like cold hard facts and answers that are concrete. Doesn't seem possible to me. This is a new virus. I believe the strain has mutated in a few cases already (London). Brazil too I think.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23719388-details/article.do?ito=newsnow&

Is it possible to catch swine flu twice?

Yes, because the virus can mutate (change). If you become infected with the swine flu virus, your body produces antibodies against it, which will recognise and fight off the virus if the body ever encounters it again. However, if the virus mutates, your immune system may not recognise this different strain and you may become ill again, although you may have some 'cross protection' due to encountering a similar virus previously.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Pandemic-flu/Pages/QA.aspx

If I get sick with H1N1 Flu Virus once, does that give me immunity or can I get infected with it again?

Typically, when a person is infected with an influenza virus and recovers, they develop antibodies that provide them with immunity to that particular virus. However, this is a new virus, and we continue to work with international partners to learn more about how it affects people and how it spreads.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/swine-porcine/faq_rg_swine-eng.php

Antibodies can last a lifetime and chances are if you have contracted swine flu, and it does mutate, you will have some level of cross-protection.

The bolded part of your post pretty much sums up the way I feel.. With changes occuring on a daily basis, no one can say with any real certainty what will or won't happen - based only on data from a previous years seasonal flu (which is not the same as this flu - nor does it seem to be following the typical "patient profile" as past seasonal flu cases have).. It's really a pretty significant "unknown" at this point and will remain that way until there is a large increase in additional cases here in the U.S..

The best we can do is to stay informed, read the links as they are provided, and wait it out.. Some schools are back in session as of this week - with more to follow next week - so it will be interesting to see if the cases spike again immediately or later on in the fall..

 

[JessicaR]

The bolded part of your post pretty much sums up the way I feel.. With changes occuring on a daily basis, no one can say with any real certainty what will or won't happen - based only on data from a previous years seasonal flu (which is not the same as this flu - nor does it seem to be following the typical "patient profile" as past seasonal flu cases have).. It's really a pretty significant "unknown" at this point and will remain that way until there is a large increase in additional cases here in the U.S..

The best we can do is to stay informed, read the links as they are provided, and wait it out.. Some schools are back in session as of this week - with more to follow next week - so it will be interesting to see if the cases spike again immediately or later on in the fall..

I'm anxious over school starting back. We have until after Labor Day so I will be paying attention to areas that are back before us. I fear once the kids are back in close quarters and the weather cools this flu will be back with a vengeance. I fear it but pray that isn't the case. Fall is a terrible time for my asthmatic son and this would just compound things.