sure wish parents would watch their kids

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

.I'm 55 and when I was a kid I was crossing a pretty busy two lane road near my home to go to the convenience store for snacks...etc.

We did a lot of bike riding and all alone but not at 6 and walking to school alone (could have only been elementary due to location) wasn't until like maybe 6th grade for me? So I really only had 1 year where I could be completely by myself walking back from school. Although I think it's odd now given how many times I went on walks around the neighborhood, rode my bike past the elementary school to get to my friends house,etc before that. Definitely wasn't at age 6 though.

 

[dvcgirl67]

We did a lot of bike riding and all alone but not at 6 and walking to school alone (could have only been elementary due to location) wasn't until like maybe 6th grade for me? So I really only had 1 year where I could be completely by myself walking back from school. Although I think it's odd now given how many times I went on walks around the neighborhood, rode my bike past the elementary school to get to my friends house,etc before that. Definitely wasn't at age 6 though.

Yeah, it's just interesting to me how much things have changed. Not saying it's better or worse...but waaaay different than when I was a kid. I had young parents too, so that may have contributed, but we were most definitely "free range" kids back then...as were all of our friends. That saying from summers in the 70s..."make sure you're home when the street lights come on" was definitely a thing. My husband...just a year younger than me and with parents that were ten years older than mine....in the same town.....same deal. We ran free back then.

 

[PollyannaMom]

We did a lot of bike riding and all alone but not at 6 and walking to school alone (could have only been elementary due to location) wasn't until like maybe 6th grade for me? So I really only had 1 year where I could be completely by myself walking back from school. Although I think it's odd now given how many times I went on walks around the neighborhood, rode my bike past the elementary school to get to my friends house,etc before that. Definitely wasn't at age 6 though.

I was definitely walking to school by myself at 6...but then again, it was barely two blocks from my house. We moved when I was 8, and then I had to cross a busy street. (I think there was a crossing guard, though.)

 

[mjkacmom]

Yeah, it's just interesting to me how much things have changed. Not saying it's better or worse...but waaaay different than when I was a kid. I had young parents too, so that may have contributed, but we were most definitely "free range" kids back then...as were all of our friends. That saying from summers in the 70s..."make sure you're home when the street lights come on" was definitely a thing. My husband...just a year younger than me and with parents that were ten years older than mine....in the same town.....same deal. We ran free back then.

I walked back and forth to school starting in kindergarten, 3/4 of a mile, my kids were walking starting in 2nd grade (youngest are 20). So many kids walk here, pretty much all streets have sidewalks and we don’t have buses. In high school those without cars walk over a mile to sports practices.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

."make sure you're home when the street lights come on"

That was our rule in the '90s. Street lights/dinner time otherwise it was a more vague "I'm out with so and so and we're going to go bike ride" I mean some of the parks we rode to were not right in the immediate area we had to ride by busy streets and oh there was this one street that was so dangerous because of it's width (narrow) and sight lines. If we wanted stay out later though we did have to use the payphone or the landline of a friends house if we were at one.

 

[tzolkin]

I don't "Hit" them, ever. I have popped their behind when they were little

This isn’t directed just at you because I have heard many people (even on this thread) say something similar. I think this is where the disconnect is happening between posters.

People will say “hitting” a child is not okay, “but spanking, swatting, popping, etc is fine”. Obviously to you and some others there is a distinction between those words/actions, but to me (and some others here) ALL of those are technically “hitting”. If I swing my arm and my hand makes contact with you— regardless of how hard, regardless of what part of your body, regardless of my emotions or intention— I would say that I hit you. I can smack you on the arm by accident, pop you on the butt in a joking manner, or slap you across the face because I’m angry. All of those actions still fall under the term “hit” to me.

And, I’m saying this as someone who has spanked her kids in the past. It may have been a pop on the butt or leg, but it was still hitting.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This isn’t directed just at you because I have heard many people (even on this thread) say something similar. I think this is where the disconnect is happening between posters.

People will say “hitting” a child is not okay, “but spanking, swatting, popping, etc is fine”. Obviously to you and some others there is a distinction between those words/actions, but to me (and some others here) ALL of those are technically “hitting”. If I swing my arm and my hand makes contact with you— regardless of how hard, regardless of what part of your body, regardless of my emotions or intention— I would say that I hit you. I can smack you on the arm by accident, pop you on the butt in a joking manner, or slap you across the face because I’m angry. All of those actions still fall under the term “hit” to me.

And, I’m saying this as someone who has spanked her kids in the past. It may have been a pop on the butt or leg, but it was still hitting.

And to expand on that when I talk about the APA and studies and research they mean all of it they mean exactly what some of these posters say isn't hitting but it just a swat on the butt. The APA is talking about physical punishments, this is touching your child as a way to give discipline.

People can have all the definitions in the world but IMO when we're talking about potential consequences and what we have learned over the years the best way to view it is the definitions used in these studies.

My usage of corporal punishment for example to the APA means spanking "physical punishment; that is, punishment that uses physical force that causes pain but not injury to correct or control an individual’s behavior (e.g., spanking a child)."

They compare that to abusive punishments which is a step above that "use of excessive physical force to discipline a child that results in bodily injury, including noticeable marks, bruises, cuts, or welts; such punishment includes beating, burning, or tying up a child."

Most were talking about corporal punishment with a few discussions that really went over into the line of abusive punishments.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

In the US there's definitely been a swing in how you can parent. I grew up as a latch key kid--I was walking to and from school at age 8, picking up my 5 year old sister from kindergarten, crossing multiple busy streets to get home, and then picking up my 2 year old sister from daycare to watch her until my mother got home from work around 6:30 pm every night. It was a free for all.

Nowadays I live around the corner from my kids' grade school and this year we allowed the 7 year old to walk her 5 year old sister to and from school every day. It is, at most, a 3 minute walk. There is a crossing guard at the one street they need to cross. And other parents think I'm crazy awful for allowing this (the kids LOVE the responsibility and it has cut down on some behavioral issues because we "trust" them).

That said, I'd NEVER allow my now 8 year old to watch her sister. I'd NEVER allow her to walk home the old route I used to from my school. Like, it's crazy to think I was allowed to do that. ANYTHING could have happened and my sisters and I are just lucky nothing ever did. I don't blame my mom, she was a single parent with no other options, that sort of thing was accepted back then, but yeesh, it shouldn't have been!

 

[Colleen27]

Can you explain why you enjoy it?

Not the poster you quoted, but I do enjoy people watching just because there's such an endless variety of humans. People are interesting. It really isn't anything more or less than that.

I was definitely walking to school by myself at 6...but then again, it was barely two blocks from my house. We moved when I was 8, and then I had to cross a busy street. (I think there was a crossing guard, though.)

I was never by myself because I grew up in a neighborhood full of kids with similar rules, but we were walking home from school starting in K. Not so much to school because of the early hour, it being still dark for a chunk of the school year, and parents being available to drop off on their way to work. But quite a few of us walked home together from the time we started school. Now the school I went to actively discourages walkers; only 4th and 5th graders are allowed to leave without their pick-up person, there are no more crossing guards, and they closed off the walking path that let us bypass the busy street and go straight into our residential area from the playground.

When DH and I bought out house, we were actively looking for a place where kids still have more of the freedom we had as kids. We didn't want the kids growing up with the "never out of an adult's sight" rules that have come to dominate the communities where we both grew up. But even here, it isn't without controversy. My kids have had friends who aren't allowed to walk to school, to play at the park in later elem, to go to the beach as teens, etc. A couple of DD14's friends come from families that don't start allowing the kids unsupervised time away from home until they start driving!

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

@Mackenzie Click-Mickelson
You pushed a lot on this thread and went straight after me and you seem to have a strong opinion on this thread. I simply asked you one question that you are avoiding. How do you discipline your children? It's not a hard question to answer.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

@Mackenzie Click-Mickelson
You pushed a lot on this thread and went straight after me and you seem to have a strong opinion on this thread. I simply asked you one question that you are avoiding. How do you discipline your children? It's not a hard question to answer.

I don't know why you're going after Mackenzie. I answered your question. There are plenty of ways to discipline your children that don't require hitting them.

It's pretty clear that you're not looking for an actual discussion but are looking for some kind of 'gotcha' moment.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I do enjoy people watching just because there's such an endless variety of humans. People are interesting. It really isn't anything more or less than that.

I am also a person who people watches mostly at theme or amusement parks while my husband is off riding a ride I don't/can't ride. I look over the map, maybe play a bit on my phone and people watch. I don't really eavesdrop (and would agree it's different than people watching). It's really just as you describe an interesting thing. I know others don't really do it but it's a fairly common behavior to do not really with any sort of intent behind it.

 

[Jimmy Mouse]

I don't know why you're going after Mackenzie. I answered your question. There are plenty of ways to discipline your children that don't require hitting them.

It's pretty clear that you're not looking for an actual discussion but are looking for some kind of 'gotcha' moment.

Going after? really? Grow up. She pushed me and has all this data but avoiding a simple question. Is this your "gotcha" moment? Stop trolling for unicorns.

 

[PollyannaMom]

...A couple of DD14's friends come from families that don't start allowing the kids unsupervised time away from home until they start driving!

@Colleen27, my "wow" reaction to that last sentence. I can't imagine following a 14-year-old around the neighborhood! Plus, I wanted my kid to gradually become comfortable handling some things on his own before he also needed to handle the car. - Yikes!

And I'm with you on choosing a neighborhood. One of the things we loved when we found ours was that when we asked kids playing outside if they liked their school, they were actually allowed to answer us!

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Not the poster you quoted, but I do enjoy people watching just because there's such an endless variety of humans. People are interesting. It really isn't anything more or less than that.

Fair enough. I just imagine that if I started a thread saying “I was at the park today with my kids, minding my business, and I slowly became aware of some guy sitting on a bench watching us and I found it unnerving,” a good number of people would tell me that was creepy and scary and encourage me to listen to my instincts.

I was never by myself because I grew up in a neighborhood full of kids with similar rules, but we were walking home from school starting in K. Not so much to school because of the early hour, it being still dark for a chunk of the school year, and parents being available to drop off on their way to work. But quite a few of us walked home together from the time we started school. Now the school I went to actively discourages walkers; only 4th and 5th graders are allowed to leave without their pick-up person, there are no more crossing guards, and they closed off the walking path that let us bypass the busy street and go straight into our residential area from the playground.

When DH and I bought out house, we were actively looking for a place where kids still have more of the freedom we had as kids. We didn't want the kids growing up with the "never out of an adult's sight" rules that have come to dominate the communities where we both grew up. But even here, it isn't without controversy. My kids have had friends who aren't allowed to walk to school, to play at the park in later elem, to go to the beach as teens, etc. A couple of DD14's friends come from families that don't start allowing the kids unsupervised time away from home until they start driving!

My son’s school doesn’t even allow kids to walk to and from their house to the bus stop without a parent until they’re in 3rd grade. If no parent is at the stop to meet them, the bus driver won’t allow them to get off and takes them back to the school. Every morning and afternoon there are 3 required parents for the 4 kids at our bus stop. My house is two doors down from the bus stop and for another parent it’s their front yard, but we still have to be there to meet them. A couple times this year someone hasn’t gotten there in time to get their kid from the bus and one of the other parents assures the driver, “Oh yeah, he’s with me today!”and hustles the kid from the bus to walk them home so the absentee parent won’t have to drive all the way to the school to collect their kid. That’s not *technically* allowed but our driver has let it slide.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I don't know why you're going after Mackenzie. I answered your question. There are plenty of ways to discipline your children that don't require hitting them.

It's pretty clear that you're not looking for an actual discussion but are looking for some kind of 'gotcha' moment.

Agreed....like possibly her replying that she doesn't have children is supposed to be the "gotcha!!"....which is then supposed to mean that she can't have an opinion on spanking, butt tapping, swatting, "whoopin"....etc when it comes to raising children.... which is ridiculous. I don't have children and I've got plenty of opinions on those things.

 

[kyton]

So far in every thread like this you can tell those who have kids, don’t have kids and who’s kids are older, those who’s kids are younger.

Yes everyone is able to have opinions - they’re like @sses, everyone has one. But if you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t teens but you’re commenting on threads talking about those things I’m automatically going to discount what you have to say as until you’ve lived it, IMO you really cannot fathom 100% what the reality is.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Agreed....like possibly her replying that she doesn't have children is supposed to be the "gotcha!!"....which is then supposed to mean that she can't have an opinion on spanking, butt tapping, swatting, "whoopin"....etc when it comes to raising children.... which is ridiculous. I don't have children and I've got plenty of opinions on those things.

My comments have largely been surrounded around the APA's findings. APA meaning the American Psychological Association. They aren't even opinions (though certainly I've commented on my thoughts at times), they are based on decades of research. I try to keep in mind time periods because many people were raised and thus raised their children under the same concepts. We know as time goes on. And this is just one such topic that there is so much overwhelming research that comes to virtually the same conclusion. At the end of the day someone can still use corporal punishment if they want to but it has no longer been recommended and instead has been recommended to reject physical punishment completely by our leading and largest psychological organization within the U.S.

 

[dvcgirl67]

My comments have largely been surrounded around the APA's findings. APA meaning the American Psychological Association. They aren't even opinions (though certainly I've commented on my thoughts at times), they are based on decades of research. I try to keep in mind time periods because many people were raised and thus raised their children under the same concepts. We know as time goes on. And this is just one such topic that there is so much overwhelming research that comes to virtually the same conclusion. At the end of the day someone can still use corporal punishment if they want to but it has no longer been recommended and instead has been recommended to reject physical punishment completely by our leading and largest psychological organization within the U.S.

Your comments are informed...and I agree with you.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Imagine how absurd the world would be if we applied the whole “you can’t have an opinion unless you’ve personally experienced it” to other things.

You’ve never been an NFL player so you can’t have an opinion on how the team played on Sunday!

You can’t have an opinion on the President’s policies — you’ve never been President!

You can’t have an opinion on the monarchy — you aren’t even royal!

I had opinions on parenting techniques and topics (and sometimes parents themselves!) prior to having children and guess what? Those opinions didn’t change after having kids. Anyone who says child-free people can’t have opinions because YoU dOn’T kNoW wHaT iT’s LiKe is just being defensive. It’s easier to be dismissive of someone else’s opinion than it is to admit maybe you aren’t doing the best job possible as a parent.