Stupid America...

[BuckNaked]

Well they should if we go to vouchers and they take public money.

I completely disagree. The whole idea of vouchers is to give poor parents a chance to get their kids OUT of the schools that are failing and into schools that are doing a good job of educating children. IF one of the problems with a school is the amount of money being spent on IDEA, then forcing that same issue on private schools is simply shifting the problem from one place to another. And I'm not saying that is the problem, but you did mention it as one reason for why the per pupil spending in public schools is so high.

The voucher program here in DC is very popular, and I hope to see it grow. DH and I were lucky when we moved here - we were able to bite the bullet and scrape the money together to keep our kids out of the DC school system. But most of the families in DC, at least the ones on the SE side, don't have that option, and their kids continue to suffer because of the horrible schools they have to attend.

Pssst, about the money thing -- try looking at the salaries and perks of the administrators. Not the building ones (Principals etc.) but the central office ones. Now their salaries are public info, but they have all sorts of ways of hiding the perks(car and housing stipends etc) in the contracts.

No doubt in my mind. We've had 2 or 3 school superintendents just in the 5 years we've been here, in part because of the spending scandals. The union leader here was also indicted for spending millions of $$ for personal use, but that was union money, not public money.

 

[mickeyfan2]

exactly...and even in the last/latest mtg, everyone - including the school principal - thought that the child was doing well and no one in the mtg had any issues with him.

The meeting is what really bothers me. They all saw him improving and no issues.

 

[krdisneybound]

I watched it about an hour ago on TIVO. So very sad to see how our children are being taught. The schools don't need anymore money. It doesn't go to the children. My children went to a private school and it sure shows in them today. I made a very smart move in my younger days and am so proud of it today. I won't even rehash what has been posted already

It also appauled me that even the poor countries scored higher than American children.

 

[momof2inPA]

I agree, but here in DC, per pupil spending is among the highest, if not the highest, in the US, and they still have some of the crappiest schools in the country. The buildings are crumbling, and there was a story in the Post recently talking about how they didn't have all the books they need. So where is all of that money going?

Barbed wire and security guards?

 

[chobie]

I watched it about an hour ago on TIVO. So very sad to see how our children are being taught. The schools don't need anymore money. It doesn't go to the children. My children went to a private school and it sure shows in them today. I made a very smart move in my younger days and am so proud of it today. I won't even rehash what has been posted already

It also appauled me that even the poor countries scored higher than American children.

Maybe because in some of the poor countries only the children of the privileged get to go? And the few poor kids whose parents do manage to get their kids to school, make them do their homework and respect the teacher?

 

[BuckNaked]

Barbed wire and security guards?

Security guards for sure, but I haven't seen barbed wire (yet). I know that the school we're zoned for used to have bars on the windows, but I've heard they've been removed.

 

[Karel]

Quote:
Also, there is this little piece of legislation called "IDEA". Providing for special needs children is very costly and of course private schools don't have to worry about that tiny detail.

True, nor should private schools have to.

So where should special education kids be educated? Should parents of sp. ed kids have a choice where their child can be educated? Or they will be left behind in the public schools?

 

[chobie]

Quote:
Also, there is this little piece of legislation called "IDEA". Providing for special needs children is very costly and of course private schools don't have to worry about that tiny detail.




So where should special education kids be educated? Should parents of sp. ed kids have a choice where their child can be educated? Or they will be left behind in the public schools?

Good question. And if the vouchers truly are for poor children, what about poor children with special needs? They don't get a choice either?

 

[Olaf]

I saw the show and thought it was excellent. I'm just wonder how bad is has to get before Americans wake up and take control of their schools from the NEA. BTW the NEA contributed $65 million to left-leaning groups last year.

Also, for all of you who think you have "excellent" schools--bet they don't do so well when compared to schools in Belgium (which were highlighted in the program).

 

[mickeyfan2]

And Belgium was ranked 11th. So there were still better countries.

 

[thinkerbell]

I sure hope that people understand that you can't believe everything you see on TV. John Stossel is a master at making things sound the way he wants them to. The way he sounded was that there are no schools performing well in the US. They all fail. Everything he talked about was negative. As some other posters said--what about the parents responsibilities to their children? Many of the schools that are failing are in areas where the parents don't give a flip. Two years ago, I taught in a school where we had a liason who would go to homes unannounced to bring the parents in for conferences when they wouldn't show up on their own. Sometimes they wouldn't come then. Then when you get them there, they let you know that they don't care.
All of his information wasn't correct either. He said that the ads in SC against vouchers were put on TV by the union. SC's teachers aren't unionized. They were sponsored by SCEA which is an education organization in which teachers can join if they want to. I am not a member. You pay a fee each year and "The SCEA provides instructional development, technology innovation, recertification assistance, legal services, political action, legislative initiatives, leadership growth and development, and educator benefits to its membership."(taken from their site) It is FAR from a union.
I thought it was pathetic how he goaded and prompted the Belgian students to say how "stupid" our students are.
He did share some valid points but he way OVER generalized. There are bad spots in every company, school, town, and even in our own homes.
That show was PITIFUL in my opinion.

 

[lyeag]

I think many parents would freak out at the idea of their little darling picking up trash at school.

Oh Yeah, I can just think back on some of the parents I had to deal with. A lot of parents would really being screaming if students were asked to do anything.


I think so much of this issue comes down to how much education is valued at home. Is it number one at home? How willing are parents to give up any extras the child does to focus on school if there is a problem? How willing are parents to give up what they want to do to go over homework?


I agree with some of the posters here also in that a lot of students learn early that very little happens when they act out in class. Habitual problem students usually are the ones struggling the most, so how much time can they spend in the office or in the hall? It isn't all discipline, but a huge amount of the problems in our schools could be solved by having a united front between schools and homes about what is expected and what the consequences are for misbehaving.

 

[momof2inPA]

They were sponsored by SCEA which is an education organization in which teachers can join if they want to. I am not a member. You pay a fee each year and "The SCEA provides instructional development, technology innovation, recertification assistance, legal services, political action, legislative initiatives, leadership growth and development, and educator benefits to its membership."(taken from their site) It is FAR from a union.

It sounds a lot like a union.

In a voucher program, if the kids whose parents care enough to pursue switching their children to a different school do so, won't the original school just perform worse?

 

[BuckNaked]

Quote:
So where should special education kids be educated? Should parents of sp. ed kids have a choice where their child can be educated? Or they will be left behind in the public schools?

Of course they wouldn't have to be left behind in public schools. There are private schools now that educate special education students. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, one of the provisions of IDEA is that if the student can't receive an adequate education in a public school, they can be sent to a private school that will provide an appropriate education. My point is that not every private school that accepts vouchers should be forced to comply with IDEA regulations.

What I don't want to see is simply a system where the voucher money can only be used if the private school is operated the exact same way as the public school was. That's nothing more than replacing a model that does work with a model that doesn't.

 

[Charade]

I think many parents would freak out at the idea of their little darling picking up trash at school.

Maybe, but regardless, it's someone in another unions job so they'd better not ruffle any feathers.

 

[BuckNaked]

In a voucher program, if the kids whose parents care enough to pursue switching their children to a different school do so, won't the original school just perform worse?

It will either improve its performance or it will be shut down.

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

"What I don't want to see is simply a system where the voucher money can only be used if the private school is operated the exact same way as the public school was."

I don't disagree with this, but let's take it one step further.....why saddle
public schools with their current rules, regulations, and unfunded mandates.

Let's give the public schools an opportunity to pre-screen and pre-test
students, and then deny entry to those who do not meet high standards.

Give the public schools the right to expel students without having to go
through miles and miles of red tape.

If people want to make changes regarding teachers and unions, then I say go
all out. Let's change the rules so that parents and students themselves are
also held more accountable.

 

[ItsonlyExperiment626]

And Belgium was ranked 11th. So there were still better countries.

They showed a list of countries in the background when they were talking about which country out-ranked us in education and I caught Finland as being #1.

 

[bobcat]

As a teacher I found the show extremely sad. Sad that it was so skewed to show only the negative. Sure there are problems with the unions, with any union, but you better believe they will have my back if it's ever against the wall. All it takes is one little snot that doesn't like a teacher to accuse them of something inapropriate and their teaching carrer is pretty much over. If proven false they still carry that stigma around. Only someone in such a public profession can understand how fearful this is. If the local butcher or factory worker is accused of something it won't ever become public knowledge but if a teacher, firefighter, police officer is acused you better believe it is front page news. The union also fights for a living wage for teachers. What other proffession pays people so poorly that they need to work second and third jobs just to pay the bills, not to live the high life but to feed their families and keep the lights on.

Other countries value education more than the US. They place an importance on attendance, respect, doing your work and working to excell. I can't say the same for US parents.

Money doesn't solve problems and anyone with half a brain cell can see that but remember the average amount spent per student is an average based on the richest districts balancing out the poorest. I wish any school in my county had that type of money to spend per student. I doubt it would increase performance more than in the short term but it would sure enhance the educational experience.

I know my opinions will only feed the flames of the teacher haters out there, and it saddens me that we have so many here on the DIS, but these are opinions from someone that is the trenches every day. It's no wonder that we have a teacher shortage with the lack of respect that teachers get. If I didn't love my students and teaching so much I might let that opinion get me down. I know I make a difference in the life of children and that makes all this BS worth it.

P.S. radionate your momma would be proud! Thank you!

 

[tw1nsmom]

Let's give the public schools an opportunity to pre-screen and pre-test
students, and then deny entry to those who do not meet high standards.

Give the public schools the right to expel students without having to go
through miles and miles of red tape.

If people want to make changes regarding teachers and unions, then I say go
all out. Let's change the rules so that parents and students themselves are
also held more accountable.

I would really like to think you're being sarcastic here. If students don't pass the tests to get into your idea of public schools, where should they go? Lump them all together in an institutional setting so that the "smart" kids don't have to see them? Start child labor camps? I mean if they aren't worthy of public education, why not just repeal the child labor laws and make some money off these kids?

As for public schools having to follow IDEA statutes...if only they all did.