Student Loan Options... PLEASE PLEASE HELP

[sharbear]

A rule of thumb is not to borrow more than your first year starting salary. If you take out the stafford loans available, I think it is around $25,000 more or less. The payments should be around $300. You and your child should try and figure out if this is doable based on what they want to do after college.

 

[PatsGirl]

Thanks Sharbear That sounds like a good "rule of thumb" and puts our $40K limit right on target I think. That works out to a full time job at $20/hour and that's what I would expect in a market here in the Northeast with a four year degree. Hopefully it won't come to that but it is reassuring that our figure isn't waaaaay out of the ballpark.

 

[jrmasm]

Thanks Sharbear That sounds like a good "rule of thumb" and puts our $40K limit right on target I think. That works out to a full time job at $20/hour and that's what I would expect in a market here in the Northeast with a four year degree. Hopefully it won't come to that but it is reassuring that our figure isn't waaaaay out of the ballpark.

Don't forget to add on Grad School.

 

[PatsGirl]

Which is another logistic to look at. Most of the five-year dual degree programs are in teaching or social work but she is researching schools that may have options she is interested in.

I am drilling it into her head that she should be thinking about college as a six-year endeavor and financially she needs to think that way. Would be nice to keep her loans at $40K for the six years

 

[Disneybuckeye]

Not sure what kind of post grad programs everyone is looking at, but most quality MBAs like for some work experience before you start. My kids are all looking at three years in between.

Also, most companies will pay for an MBA. The caveat is usually you have to pay some of the money back if you do not stay with the company for five years after you take each class. I have a friend in HR and she said it is really hard to get that money back and most companies don't pursue it if you leave. Even if you do have to pay some of it back the new company may give a signing bonus to help. Oldest DS received a 10k signing bonus at his new job and he is only two years out of school and that was just for moving expenses. Would of covered a decent amount of grad classes if necessary.

 

[MrsPete]

Mrs. Pete, I beg to differ. "Mini-ivy" is a common term in the Northeast. Those included are generally the NESCAC schools and other small selective liberal arts colleges: Amherst, Williams, Hamilton, Middlebury, Vassar....at this time, there are a couple dozen schools commonly considered Mini-Ivy

People use lots of terms that aren't correct! Clearly this one is intended to attach status to schools that are not actually in the Ivy League. It doesn't mean those aren't excellent schools, but they aren't Ivy League schools and aren't "mini" anything.

Don't forget to add on Grad School.

Everyone talks about grad school as if it is a given, but keep in mind that less than 10% of all American adults have a masters degree (check the census). You could make an argument that today's young people will earn advanced degrees at a higher rate than those of us who are older, and I'd agree with that.

Not sure what kind of post grad programs everyone is looking at, but most quality MBAs like for some work experience before you start. My kids are all looking at three years in between.

Also, most companies will pay for an MBA. The caveat is usually you have to pay some of the money back if you do not stay with the company for five years after you take each class. I have a friend in HR and she said it is really hard to get that money back and most companies don't pursue it if you leave. Even if you do have to pay some of it back the new company may give a signing bonus to help. Oldest DS received a 10k signing bonus at his new job and he is only two years out of school and that was just for moving expenses. Would of covered a decent amount of grad classes if necessary.

Absolutely true, and in some jobs -- teaching is one -- a person who has a masters but no experience is actually at a disadvantage. The person isn't actually "proven" in the field, but he's going to cost more than a teacher with just a Bachelor's.

 

[jrmasm]

People use lots of terms that aren't correct! Clearly this one is intended to attach status to schools that are not actually in the Ivy League. It doesn't mean those aren't excellent schools, but they aren't Ivy League schools and aren't "mini" anything.
Everyone talks about grad school as if it is a given, but keep in mind that less than 10% of all American adults have a masters degree (check the census). You could make an argument that today's young people will earn advanced degrees at a higher rate than those of us who are older, and I'd agree with that.Absolutely true, and in some jobs -- teaching is one -- a person who has a masters but no experience is actually at a disadvantage. The person isn't actually "proven" in the field, but he's going to cost more than a teacher with just a Bachelor's.

It all depends on the child's intended path. If you know that your child plans to attend grad school immediately after under grad (which is a normal path for lots of careers), that added cost is absolutely something to consider when determining how much debt makes sense for under grad.

And while I've never heard the Mini Ivy label, Potted Ivy was a term used when I applied to schools back in the 80's. Same with the Seven Sisters.

 

[PatsGirl]

Maybe it's only us in the Northeast that are familiar with the term, but it is used widely here, among parents, students, guidance counselors and admission coordinators at the local colleges and universities.

Little IviesFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Locations of New England Small College Athletic Conference (NESCAC) schools, often described as "Little Ivies"The Little Ivies are a loosely-defined group of small, selective[1] American liberal arts colleges.

Institutions identified as Little Ivies are usually old, socially and academically elite, small, exclusive, and academically competitive liberal arts colleges located in the northeastern United States. The colloquialism is meant to imply that Little Ivies share similarities of distinction with the universities of the Ivy League.

It is sometimes synonymous with the "Little Three," Amherst, Wesleyan, and Williams.[2][3][4] (The term "Little Three" is well-defined as a former athletic league[5][6][7] and has often been used to identify these schools as a socially and academically elite trio;[2][8][9][10][11] the term has also been used to compare the three institutions with the so-called Big Three of the Ivy League: Harvard, Yale, and Princeton.[12][13]) Encarta defines "Little Ivies" to refer to these three schools, which it characterizes as "small" and "exclusive" and as having "high academic standards and long traditions."[14]
It can refer to the schools of the modern-day New England Small College Athletic Conference[15][16] (NESCAC), which includes the "Little Three" together with Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Connecticut College, Hamilton, Middlebury, Trinity, and Tufts.
Greene and Greene's guide, Hidden Ivies: Thirty Colleges of Excellence refers specifically—in its introduction—to "the group historically known as the 'Little Ivies' (including Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, and Williams)" which it says have "scaled the heights of prestige and selectivity and also turn away thousands of our best and brightest young men and women."[17][18]

 

[JanaDee]

Which is another logistic to look at. Most of the five-year dual degree programs are in teaching or social work but she is researching schools that may have options she is interested in.

I am drilling it into her head that she should be thinking about college as a six-year endeavor and financially she needs to think that way. Would be nice to keep her loans at $40K for the six years

She should be thinking about grad school after getting work experience.

 

[PatsGirl]

I'll have to research some more about grad schools, when and where?, but my take is that it is very difficult to get back into the school momentum and I wonder how many would leave their jobs to go back to school full time or is the expectation that masters degrees are best earned part-time while working? My thought is to do the six years while doing internships. But, admittedly, I know little about the process except that I wasn't able to complete my Masters because working full time and raising two kids just didn't allow me the $$ or time I needed to do it. I am short about half the needed credits right now.

Of course, the best alternative is to go to work for a company that will pay for the Masters but again, that leaves it as a part-time endeavor and could take four years to complete.

My niece was offered and took a job with Raytheon just last year. After a short period of employment (18 months maybe) they will pay for graduate school. But, I think she has to do this while working full time.

 

[okeydokey]

She should be thinking about grad school after getting work experience.

Depends on the child and the course of study. I have one that is very interested in science and is planning on a PhD in Physics.

For most people, taking a few years off and earning a salary is not conducive to then quitting that job to go to grad school, unless their current employer was going to pay for it.

 

[JanaDee]

Depends on the child and the course of study. I have one that is very interested in science and is planning on a PhD in Physics.

For most people, taking a few years off and earning a salary is not conducive to then quitting that job to go to grad school, unless their current employer was going to pay for it.

Many employers will pay a portion or all of grad school tuition after a certain number of years of employment. I can't think of one adult I know that quit work to go to grad school. They work and go to school simultaneously.

 

[Arielle22]

Many employers will pay a portion or all of grad school tuition after a certain number of years of employment. I can't think of one adult I know that quit work to go to grad school. They work and go to school simultaneously.

That is a perk that many companies have been doing away with. It is expensive and not really worth it for the company.

 

[JanaDee]

That is a perk that many companies have been doing away with. It is expensive and not really worth it for the company.

I know seven people that have gotten their Masters in the last couple years. Six of them (including DH) have had all or a portion of their tuition costs covered by their employers.

The seventh was not working at the time.

 

[okeydokey]

Many employers will pay a portion or all of grad school tuition after a certain number of years of employment. I can't think of one adult I know that quit work to go to grad school. They work and go to school simultaneously.

Yeah, my husband did. We moved South so he could go grad school and he earned 7800 a year as a TA/RA. Tough times, but it was a good move in the long run.

His class mates were mostly a few years out of undergrad and did the same thing.

 

[nerderella]

So what debt amount is considered acceptable for a four year degree to most of you? I was thinking nothing more than $40K total, hopefully less. Assuming a student is majoring in a field that has lucrative positions and they are ambitious and hard-working, I think that amount can be paid back in less than 10 years. Actually, given the right budget and work ethic, maybe half that. DD has been told that when all the packages arrive, loans will be her responsibility and neither of us will co-sign any more than $10K a year, and her choices would be limited to the loan and what her father and I each decide to contribute.

I really don't think in this economy that paying back $40k in 5 or 10 years will be easy unless that's her only debt, she's living with you until they're gone, and her salary can go directly to paying off loans. The economy is what it is, regardless of how hard working and penny pinching your budget is.

IIRC from the other thread, your daughter may want to go FBI with her degree. Entry level salary there as a GS-5 is $31k unless she's hired as a special agent (which requires a JD, LE/Mil background, or special interest language) she'd only be a GS-10 which is still only going to net her $46k. Gov't LEO promotions are mostly due to years on the job, not merit. It took my husband 8 years to go from a GS-5 to a GS-13, with two rare meritorious promotions that sped the process up included.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but if this is the road she's going down, it might be worth an expectation adjustment on how quickly these loans will be gone.

I borrowed $36k in loans for my undergraduate degree, not including interest (which brought me to just around $50k to pay back). In 2002, when my payments started I went with a gradual income-based repayment and they were around $150/month. By 2012, they had grown to $550/month. I budget insanely, don't spend irresponsibly, and pay over when I can. But when a loan was that much and there are other bills to pay, there's only so much you can do. Truth be told, 12 years later I only have about $10k left now to repay, but had it not been for a loved one leaving me money when they passed, I'd still have about $20k left.

Not sure what kind of post grad programs everyone is looking at, but most quality MBAs like for some work experience before you start. My kids are all looking at three years in between.

Some fields and degrees (usually a masters level) are more accepting of applicants straight out of college, while others require a masters, then gap years of life experience between masters and PhD.

As a mid-life career change, I'm now getting my MSW and wanted to go straight PhD from here, but the program doesn't allow continuum students any longer. I'm fine with that. I'm not sure I want to do another few years at this point.

The STEM fields are usually good with people going from BSc to PhD, and in many cases your PhD will be fully funded.

People use lots of terms that aren't correct! Clearly this one is intended to attach status to schools that are not actually in the Ivy League. It doesn't mean those aren't excellent schools, but they aren't Ivy League schools and aren't "mini" anything.

When an undergraduate classmate of mine told a professor that St. Lawrence was a "mini-Ivy" she looked him straight in the face and said, "don't kid yourself. St. Lawrence is a school of seconds." When the class just looked at her quizzically, she followed with, "Yeah, you know. The smarter, older sibling goes to Harvard or Yale, the second kid can't get in there so they come here. Then the parents will give it a fancy nickname like 'mini-Ivy' so the second kid feels like they've also accomplished something big when they really haven't."

To be honest, after taking classes at an Ivy as a graduate student, I couldn't agree more with her assessment.

 

[Arielle22]

I know seven people that have gotten their Masters in the last couple years. Six of them (including DH) have had all or a portion of their tuition costs covered by their employers.

The seventh was not working at the time.

I am an HR Mgr and belong to an HR association which surveys the members on various topics, especially benefits and perks.

Tuition reimbursement is definitely on the downslide compared to the 1980s (when I used it for my degree). Companies no longer want to pay for a degree that the employee is going to take and use elsewhere. Perks are one of the first things that go when a company is tightening their belt, especially a perk that costs a lot and is used by only a select few.

 

[CPT Tripss]

People use lots of terms that aren't correct! Clearly this one is intended to attach status to schools that are not actually in the Ivy League. It doesn't mean those aren't excellent schools, but they aren't Ivy League schools and aren't "mini" anything.
Everyone talks about grad school as if it is a given, but keep in mind that less than 10% of all American adults have a masters degree (check the census). You could make an argument that today's young people will earn advanced degrees at a higher rate than those of us who are older, and I'd agree with that.Absolutely true, and in some jobs -- teaching is one -- a person who has a masters but no experience is actually at a disadvantage. The person isn't actually "proven" in the field, but he's going to cost more than a teacher with just a Bachelor's.

Gee isn't that putting a bit too much academic significance onto a second tier(at best) athletic conference? The so called mini Ivies are just as selective and elitist.

 

[PatsGirl]

The so called mini Ivies are just as selective and elitist.

And we have found that some of these, I'm almost afraid to say it, "little-ivys" are MORE selective. And when you consider that most are a tenth of the size, that influences that figure as well.

Whatever. She was not applying so she could brag to everyone she was accepted into a mini-ivy, it was the area and size that was determining the list, and of course, the match academically. She is not condescending nor does she think she is elite, but she is one bright kid and I'm proud of her, even if our financial situation finds her in a state school.

 

[leebee]

she is one bright kid and I'm proud of her, even if our financial situation finds her in a state school.

I say the VERY same thing about my DD, and our financial situation DID find her at a state school. She will be a college senior in the fall, and absolutely LOVES her school, program, and life. She has told me that, although she was very disappointed at the beginning, she can't imagine having gone to school anywhere else and is so glad things worked out the way they did!

Grad school really depends on the student's major and interests. If you are in the sciences, you can find a job with a BS, but the pay is going to be disappointingly low; $30K is about the average starting pay for a bachelor's degree lab technician, depending on whether your degree is in bio, chemistry, biochem, molecular biology, or physics. Many webpages show overinflated salaries, quoting research associate salaries… but in practice, RAs always have some prior experience, either in grad school or many years as a lab tech. Also, medical technicians make a higher salary, but that's a totally different degree, job, and pay scale from earning a BS in the biological or physical sciences.

HOWEVER, there is a bright side: Graduate school is mostly paid for if you are going into the sciences or engineering. I don't think I know anyone in these fields who paid for their MS or PhD degrees; almost everyone gets a tuition waiver and smallish paycheck associated with having either a teaching assistantship or research assistantship (and probably 85% of our friends/associates have PhDs in the physical/biological sciences or engineering).

Now I am teaching in the public schools, and almost all the teachers and SLPs I know who have master's degrees worked for several years before returning to school full-time, or earned their master's part-time while working full-time. It takes longer, and it's hard to go to school while working, but sometimes it's the only option.

Back to the topic… Please remember that when schools say they "meet 100% of your need" that it doesn't mean the money is free. First, they are the ones that determine your need, based on the FAFSA, and that means the student's need AFTER they deduct the expected parent contribution. Also, they don't mean free money… student loans and work study are part of meeting the need. Even the schools that say they make sure you are 100% funded aren't' handing out money; many of them include parent PLUS loans and student private loans as part of the package. It's quite the racket sometimes. Another thing that sometimes people don't realize is that student loan debt is amortized, just like a mortgage, and a 5% interest rate often comes out to paying more like 35% in real money over the extent of the repayment period.