Student Loan Options... PLEASE PLEASE HELP

That she's going to a school with that tuition may actually be good news. A good portion of schools that charge that much per year--especially the really good ones--have aggressive financial aid programs.

People get really confused about this. Actually, if you don't make much money, it's generally cheaper to go to a place like Harvard or Yale even than an in-state school. I did a quick compare for Harvard vs the University of Alabama, for an Alabama student whose parents have a $50,000 household income and $15,000 in assets.

Without financial aid:
Alabama: $23,106
Harvard: $63,150

With financial aid:
Alabama: $17,750
Harvard: $4,725

Harvard's an extreme example, but a lot of national-tier private schools have the resources to give a lot more in financial aid.

However, if your daughter is at one of the more expensive private regional universities, which don't have the kinds of resources that the national universities do, perhaps a transfer is indeed the best call.

In other words, talk to financial aid. They'll know what they can do.


the thing is-allot of the numbers that are thrown around, while offered in full to incoming freshman-decrease TREMENDOUSLY sophomore and even more subsequent years.

federal need based aide is capped. some states have need based state aide (VERY low income criteria for IN STATE residents only) that is also capped. there is only so much available in 'free monies' which even private high profile universities will require a student to fully utilize prior to offering scholarships and such.

the sad thing is some private high cost places will offer huge amounts of aid to potential freshman students that make it look much less expensive than their public counterparts. come the end of freshman year, the students see a decrease in free monies, but not so much that it deters them from saddling themselves with loans. come the end of sophomore year-the gap between 'free monies' and cost of attendance is staggering-BUT the kids are stuck. many private universities have general ed programs freshman and sophomore year that in no way mirror or are transferable to their lower cost public counterparts so.............the student has to choose between continued education with a staggering cost at their private university OR cutting their losses, and transferring to a public where they may have to attend 1-1 1/2 years longer than they anticipated:worried:
 
I, like many out there, worry beyond belief about how my son is going to pay back these loans. He is at a state school (in IL) for computer engineering and it's running about $31000/yr. $35000 if he stayed in a dorm w/ a meal plan.

He went to a community college for the first two years and then transferred as a junior, only to find they discontinued a summer class that was a prerequisite for his 300 level courses AFTER he was accepted and committed. So...with that, that was going to push him to three more years, rather than two.

At orientation, when I asked his advisor about how he could make up ground, she got a little mad at me and said, "He's not behind. He's where he is. It doesn't matter how long it takes him to finish." Ummm..I'm sorry, but at the tune of $35K a year, it DOES matter.

He only qualifies for the $7500 unsubsidized stafford loan per year. The rest we've had to come up with in private student loans that we are currently paying the interest on, so as to not make things worse when he gets a job.

At this point after two summer school classes, he SHOULD be able to graduate next December. So, 4.5 years total in school.

Even if we had saved EVERYTHING we could have since he was born, we never would have had enough to pay for that!

I'm hoping he gets one hell of a job after graduation...he should...but of course there are no guarantees and competition is stiff where he is. I'm also hoping he lives with us for awhile and can pay them off quicker.

In the meantime, I'm crazy. Crazy, crazy with worry.

To the OP, I echo what everyone has said: talk to the financial aid office quickly.


With your son's degree in computer engineering, he shouldn't have trouble finding a job after graduation and be able to handle his loan payments.

I know it's a "soft" guideline but student debt should not exceed the expected first year of salary out of college.
 
The cluelessness of that advisor's statement really did make me just laugh out loud!

Keep in mind though that her kids will likely attend school there free of charge. Maybe she hasn't processed in her mind just how much money it all is. :confused3

Yeah, I had all to do to not jump across the table and go for her jugular. I forgot to add that because of the lack of the prerequisite class that was eliminated, he only had 12 hours. After she replied with the comment above, she told him he could take an Islamic culture course, a class on comic books or chocolate appreciation to fill his schedule.:furious:

I decided to spare DS the embarrassment and held my response until we were in the car!
 
Op- another avenue to consider is a school approved co-op. Some business and engineering school work with companies to create extended internships called co-ops. Our school offered them in engineering where you could work a semester then go to school a semester. The work was paid and they could take classes part time during the work semester.

Co-op placements weren't guaranteed, you had to interview. But it did help many with making school more affordable and themselves more employable after graduation. I'm a former career services director and our offices handled coops also.

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Yeah, I had all to do to not jump across the table and go for her jugular. I forgot to add that because of the lack of the prerequisite class that was eliminated, he only had 12 hours. After she replied with the comment above, she told him he could take an Islamic culture course, a class on comic books or chocolate appreciation to fill his schedule.:furious:

I decided to spare DS the embarrassment and held my response until we were in the car!


Honestly...... I'd be suggesting to my child that they highly consider getting a new advisor. That one seems mighty clueless.


Op- another avenue to consider is a school approved co-op. Some business and engineering school work with companies to create extended internships called co-ops. Our school offered them in engineering where you could work a semester then go to school a semester. The work was paid and they could take classes part time during the work semester.

Co-op placements weren't guaranteed, you had to interview. But it did help many with making school more affordable and themselves more employable after graduation. I'm a former career services director and our offices handled coops also.

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My son's engineering school offers a lot of co-ops. He's an incoming sophomore and will be looking at those opportunities very soon. The money sounds very good, and a great way to get to know some of the big employers in the area.
 
the thing is-allot of the numbers that are thrown around, while offered in full to incoming freshman-decrease TREMENDOUSLY sophomore and even more subsequent years.

federal need based aide is capped. some states have need based state aide (VERY low income criteria for IN STATE residents only) that is also capped. there is only so much available in 'free monies' which even private high profile universities will require a student to fully utilize prior to offering scholarships and such.

the sad thing is some private high cost places will offer huge amounts of aid to potential freshman students that make it look much less expensive than their public counterparts. come the end of freshman year, the students see a decrease in free monies, but not so much that it deters them from saddling themselves with loans. come the end of sophomore year-the gap between 'free monies' and cost of attendance is staggering-BUT the kids are stuck. many private universities have general ed programs freshman and sophomore year that in no way mirror or are transferable to their lower cost public counterparts so.............the student has to choose between continued education with a staggering cost at their private university OR cutting their losses, and transferring to a public where they may have to attend 1-1 1/2 years longer than they anticipated:worried:

This really isn't true of the nationally-ranked schools. Their ranking (on US News, etc.) depends in large part on their completion rate, so in addition to any ethical reasons, they have a real incentive for keeping their students in the school. They get dinged if students take a long time to complete their schooling or if there are a lot of transfers. However, this is getting off the topic, and I don't mean to distract from the OP's concerns. I think you're doing absolutely the right thing, OP, to go talk to financial aid. If they can't help you, a transfer might be in order, but I wouldn't assume it's a necessity until you speak with them.
 
That she's going to a school with that tuition may actually be good news. A good portion of schools that charge that much per year--especially the really good ones--have aggressive financial aid programs.

People get really confused about this. Actually, if you don't make much money, it's generally cheaper to go to a place like Harvard or Yale even than an in-state school. I did a quick compare for Harvard vs the University of Alabama, for an Alabama student whose parents have a $50,000 household income and $15,000 in assets.

Without financial aid:
Alabama: $23,106
Harvard: $63,150

With financial aid:
Alabama: $17,750
Harvard: $4,725

Harvard's an extreme example, but a lot of national-tier private schools have the resources to give a lot more in financial aid.

However, if your daughter is at one of the more expensive private regional universities, which don't have the kinds of resources that the national universities do, perhaps a transfer is indeed the best call.

In other words, talk to financial aid. They'll know what they can do.

Well, yes ... and no (to the first part). The sort of extreme-aid programs you mention are called "zero-loan pledges", and they showed up in the mid-1990's as a wonderful ideal. About 70 institutions signed initially, but then the crash happened, and a lot of endowments took a huge hit. Predictably, many of the colleges dropped the zero-loan policy; the most recent number I heard said that only about 2 dozen still offer it. However, even at those institutions, there has always been a catch: you can only get the aid if you are admitted in the first place, and at those schools, it is really very difficult for poor kids to get admitted. The idea of "need-blind" admissions decisions is a very pretty one, but at the 40 or so US schools that are at the top of the heap, it just isn't done that way. Admissions officers can Google just as well as the rest of us, and when your Dad's name pops up all over the WSJ website, you are a lot more likely to get admitted than a student with exactly the same stats whose father's only mention on the web is a lien against him for child support. The major private schools (and increasingly, public flagships as well) do this for reasons that go beyond a particular applicant's ability to pay full tuition -- they want to create legacies; families who attend for generations and whose names end up on buildings. THOSE people are their bread and butter, and they know it. So, the odds that your imaginary student would ever actually get to make a choice between Bama and Harvard are darned small. I can't find the place where I read it, but I heard recently that the number of accepted low-income freshmen eligible for the no-loan deals at Harvard normally is less than 2% per year, out of a class with about 1600 openings. I'm not swearing that's accurate, because I can't cite the source, but from my experience with the internal workings of universities, it doesn't sound far-fetched.

Meanwhile, back at the bank, there are an enormous number of private schools with tuition over $40K, and many of them are not places that are household names. Chapman (in Orange Co., California) comes quite close, but among the schools I can think of right of the top of my head that are well-known in academic circles but not necessarily places almost any American would recognize, I'd include Landmark, GWU, and Wesleyan as examples.

While I certainly would agree that a well-heeled private university is more likely that a smaller school or a public one to be able to bridge an unforeseen financial gap, there are gaps and then there are gaps, and the OP's gap is more on the order of a chasm. Coming up with $4K or so at the last minute is usually doable at a school like that, but coming up with nearly $20K is unfortunately a lot less likely.
 
Well, yes ... and no (to the first part). The sort of extreme-aid programs you mention are called "zero-loan pledges", and they showed up in the mid-1990's as a wonderful ideal. About 70 institutions signed initially, but then the crash happened, and a lot of endowments took a huge hit. Predictably, many of the colleges dropped the zero-loan policy; the most recent number I heard said that only about 2 dozen still offer it. However, even at those institutions, there has always been a catch: you can only get the aid if you are admitted in the first place, and at those schools, it is really very difficult for poor kids to get admitted. The idea of "need-blind" admissions decisions is a very pretty one, but at the 40 or so US schools that are at the top of the heap, it just isn't done that way. Admissions officers can Google just as well as the rest of us, and when your Dad's name pops up all over the WSJ website, you are a lot more likely to get admitted than a student with exactly the same stats whose father's only mention on the web is a lien against him for child support. The major private schools (and increasingly, public flagships as well) do this for reasons that go beyond a particular applicant's ability to pay full tuition -- they want to create legacies; families who attend for generations and whose names end up on buildings. THOSE people are their bread and butter, and they know it. So, the odds that your imaginary student would ever actually get to make a choice between Bama and Harvard are darned small. I can't find the place where I read it, but I heard recently that the number of accepted low-income freshmen eligible for the no-loan deals at Harvard normally is less than 2% per year, out of a class with about 1600 openings. I'm not swearing that's accurate, because I can't cite the source, but from my experience with the internal workings of universities, it doesn't sound far-fetched.

Meanwhile, back at the bank, there are an enormous number of private schools with tuition over $40K, and many of them are not places that are household names. Chapman (in Orange Co., California) comes quite close, but among the schools I can think of right of the top of my head that are well-known in academic circles but not necessarily places almost any American would recognize, I'd include Landmark, GWU, and Wesleyan as examples.

While I certainly would agree that a well-heeled private university is more likely that a smaller school or a public one to be able to bridge an unforeseen financial gap, there are gaps and then there are gaps, and the OP's gap is more on the order of a chasm. Coming up with $4K or so at the last minute is usually doable at a school like that, but coming up with nearly $20K is unfortunately a lot less likely.

Harvard's OIR page is opaque, but Yale's is pretty straightforward. According to them, 52% of students receive financial aid from Yale sources. The average financial aid package from Yale sources alone is nearly $42,000. The percentage of students with alumni parents is about half of what it was in 1980.

You make lots of really good points. I ran the same numbers through Wesleyan, and the price dropped from $62,874 to $4,023 (including student work contributions). However, when I ran the numbers through Quinnipiac, a private regional university close to Wesleyan, the price only dropped from $57,360 to $21,840. In other words, while Wesleyan was affordable for lower-middle-class income households, Quinnipiac really wasn't. Plenty of private universities that charge that much aren't affordable--but plenty are.

In fact, it should be mentioned that one of the reasons prices have spiked at top schools is because their financial aid has also spiked. A portion of their students will always be able to pay sticker price, which in turn helps to increase the institution's financial aid potential.

As for coming up with the gap, most financial aid offices keep a portion of their funds for family circumstance changes. You're right that the OP's is more extreme than most, which is why I say that having a kid with a great academic record is a bonus in this situation. That said, they may well not be able to cover it.

At the base, though, I just wanted to counter the idea that a) all schools charging over $30k a year are unaffordable in terms of real price and b) the OP's daughter should transfer immediately because the school is out of her financial league. Possibly yes, but again, meeting with financial aid will help to clarify the real picture.
 
With a soon to be college frosh in the house, I'm reading this thread with interest. Anyone know what the stats are on average student loan amounts for college freshman?
 
With a soon to be college frosh in the house, I'm reading this thread with interest. Anyone know what the stats are on average student loan amounts for college freshman?
I just finished my entrance counseling for my new school and for Staffords, freshman can get up to $9,500. Perkins is another loan but it's from the individual schools so the amount and whether or not it's available is dependent on the school. You can also get a Pell Grant if you qualify financially, which for me is just under $6,000 this year, but I don't have to repay it. The total amount of aid available is also dependent on the cost of attendance for the specific university your child wants to attend. The COA is an estimate of all expenses they will incur during the school year.
I don't know much about Parent PLUS loans since I'm an independent student.
 
With a soon to be college frosh in the house, I'm reading this thread with interest. Anyone know what the stats are on average student loan amounts for college freshman?

"Average" isn't hugely useful unless you have a specific school in mind. However, I'd encourage you to check out the net price calculators that are available on every school's financial aid page. (Big part of Obama's higher education plan was making financial aid more transparent--I think the calculator is now federal law.) They can't guarantee the numbers will be exactly the same in their offer, but it gives a sense of what the real price (as opposed to the sticker price) will be. They should also break down how much of the financial aid will be gift, loan, or work study. Once you have all the information (last year's tax return is useful), it really only takes about 3-4 minutes per school.

I think it's a shame that a lot of smart but less wealthy kids are scared off applying to good but expensive schools because of sticker shock. That's why the calculators are great--they give a sense of what is actually affordable and what is out of range. Again, they're not perfect, and you won't know your real package until you apply, but it's better than scrambling in the dark.
 
With a soon to be college frosh in the house, I'm reading this thread with interest. Anyone know what the stats are on average student loan amounts for college freshman?

Then run SCREAMING from this board!! You'll just end up confused and befuddled! :badpc:

Seriously, lots of information but you need to know what's good for your child. This board and the College Confidential boards seem to be a breeding ground for braggadocio.:surfweb: :badpc:
 
With a soon to be college frosh in the house, I'm reading this thread with interest. Anyone know what the stats are on average student loan amounts for college freshman?


look to the websites for the schools you soon to be is interested in attending-it can vary GREATLY depending on the cost to attend a particular school, and that school's commitment/ability to help students keep loan amounts down.

dd's university is very committed to minimizing student debt-they work diligently to grow their scholarship offerings, and NON work study opportunities on campus (there is very little work study awarded anymore, so this affords more students the opportunity). they are so committed to this principle that they have bucked the trend through very prudent budgeting such that there have been no tuition increases for the last 2 years:thumbsup2
 
I would think that you were denied the parents plus loan due to the bankruptcy, correct? I feel for you OP, really I do - but how could you possibly think of incurring any more debt when you are struggling financially, now? I agree with the other posters who said that a visit to financial aid needs to be made and as soon as possible. But, seriously, I think you both need to be realistic and start looking into other schools. If you are divorced and your child custody agreement provides for any type of financial aid for your daughter, including tuition and/or continuing support while your daughter is still in school, then your hubby is responsible for continuing payment. Good luck and everything will work out in the end.
 
Saw this on Business Insider yesterday.

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