Strict, over-protective parent here...

[Colleen27]

I need to ask the ones with little kids who say when their children are that age they will never let them go one question. Will you then not allow them to go on any school field trips in upper elem. or middle school? They go to amusement parks, water parks Zoos etc with very minimal adults present. Our middle school goes to a very large water park (larger than wet n wild) and they are on their own for the day. yes there are a few chaps but they don't go around with them. They also go to Chicago in middle school with the same ratio of adults.

I don't think I'd be okay with a middle school trip to a waterpark, personally. For me, water events warrant a higher level of caution/supervision than other situations. I'd have no problem with my kids going on the same middle and high school trips I did, to a major amusement park, a touristy/historic attraction, and then on overnight trips in high school, but waterparks and undersupervised teens just makes me nervous.

 

[mjkacmom]

I apologize..that "ridiculously" was more directed toward the super mom who said it would be "ridiculously" overprotective to make a kid wait till they're 17 and that she'll never be "that mom". Obviously we have opposite opinions!

I do realize in farming states the age is much lower..and I believe I said I live in New England where driving is much different and I might think differently if we lived in a rural area.

Also, I stand corrected. The age in Mass is 16 1/2 still...I believe it'll soon be 17.

They only get a provisional license here in NJ ay 17 - however, this is the land of road rage!

 

[JUJU814]

They only get a provisional license here in NJ ay 17 - however, this is the land of road rage!

Exactly..Mass isn't much better! I personally knew a kid age 17 who was killed in a road rage incident.

The northeast is a whole different ballpark when it comes to courteous driving I think.

I never did make my comment on the waterpark. I would not let my 13 year go without an adult..no way no how. Thankfully, her circle of friends, all the parents are in pretty much agreement on that kind of stuff so it hasn't been an issue. I'm not fond of school field trips to waterparks either..but usually those are well chaperoned and there is a parent with smaller groups of kids.

Julie

 

[DVCLiz]

I don't agree that every 15 1/2 year old is too young for a driver's license. Both of my daughters got a learner's permit at 15 and did/will be getting their driver's licenses at 16.

I'd be perfectly comfortable letting DD15 get a license and drive alone now if she could - we have 5 months to go and I am couting the days!! She's paid careful attention in her driver's ed course and she's practiced with me in the front seat sitting beside her for 6 months now. She's a cautious and careful driver who makes good decisions at pressure points like left-turn intersections, etc. I'm totally confident in her ability and I would never dream of making her wait until she was 17 to get a license. I think that would be ridiculously overprotective - because I see the moms who make their kids wait and they all, to a tee, fit the same mold. I'm not going to be that mom!!!

As far as the waterpark issue goes, I don't know what kind of crowd it draws or what kind of incidents routinely happen. If I knew it was dangerous for young teen girls (being hassled by strange boys, etc.) I would say no. If it was something the usual crowd did and there were no real dangers, I'd probably say yes. I'm more permissive, though.

I guess my point would be that if it were a matter of something known I'd be inclined to think another parent had a valid point but if most of the peer group was allowed and there weren't any "real" dangers, I'd think the parent was overprotective.

And yes, a lot does happen between 13 and 18 but there's something to be said for not waiting until 17 1/2 for a kid to make those first independent steps.

Well, some STATES it's the LAW that they have to wait...and no, it is not ridiculously overprotective. You have to be 17 in Mass...and I think that's wise.

I think it's ridiculously irresponsible for a 15 year old to have a drivers license..I don't care how responsible they are. I just think it's totally unnecessary. Of course, I live in the Northeast and see how we drive here...so maybe I'd think differently if I lived in a more rural area.

What exactly is "that mold" of the moms you will never be like?

I happen to think I am one awesome mom..and my 17 1/2 year old daughter agrees wholeheartedly. She is very responsible and will even be staying home by herself for a week end of this summer. I've always been "overprotective" by what I'm assuming might be your standards, but I'm proud of and confident in the decisions I've made with her and gee, her friends even think I'm the "coolest" of their friends' moms.

I see the moms who let their kids do everything, and they all fit the same mold to a tee...and I'm not going to be THAT mom! Now isn't that a ridiculous statement? Especially since I don't KNOW them.

Um, I think you are missing my point. In my state, the age to get a driver's license is 16. The requirement is 30 hours of classroom training, 6 hours with a driving instructor, and passing a sign, vision, and written rules of the road test at 15 in order to get a learner's permit. After a year of supervised driving (parent in the front passenger seat only) a teen can get a license at 16. That's the norm I am referring to. And the mothers I am referring to are the ones who decide, because in my opinion they are being overprotective, that their child is too (fill in the blank) to get a license at the same time the peer group does. And all of those moms are the same - they have been hovering over their kids for years, making sure they have the right teacher, don't have work that is too hard for them, don't have any emotional issue that has to be dealt with, don't have their feelings hurt, etc. THAT'S the kind of mom I'm referring to - not sure why you thought it had anything to do with you personally; it doesn't. That's the kind of mom I DON'T want to be - even if it means stretching a little out of my comfort zone with things like trips to waterparks, etc. I certainly reserve the right to keep my child at home if I truly don't think something is safe, but I also realize that if "everybody" is doing it it might just possibly be an OK thing for my child to do, too.

There's no point in arguing about teen drivers - it is different state by stae and really, it's different kid by kid. My daughter, now 20, was and is a great driver, and her younger sister is turning out to be even more cautious, at least so far. I don't have any hesitation about putting them on the road at 16 because they have been taught well, practiced a long time, and been given safe and reliable transportation. If I see or hear of anything that makes me doubt that, I'll pull their keys immediately. But not to give them the chance at the age their friends are getting a license seems to me to be counter-productive. It says, "All of your friends are old enough to do this but I think you'll fail so you can't have the chance." And I am looking forward to not driving her everywhere she needs and wants to go!!

Also, I didn't say I saw the moms who let their kids do everything - you made that part up. If you'll read what I said again you'll see I was still referring to the driver's license issue.

And, if I were to cherry pick something out of your post to comment on, it would be that I'm not worried about how "cool" I look to DD's friends like you seem to be. I make good decisions based on what I see my child being able to handle and how mature I think she is.

 

[DVCLiz]

Also, I don't live in a "rural area" although I do live in North Carolina. I know it's not the Northeast but actually I live in a large city by NC standards and we rarely see any tractors on the road.

 

[crisi]

In farming states, kids tend to get their licenses younger. They are doing farm work, driving tractors, etc.

That's the real world for many people, and it's not "ridiculously irresponsible."

Its actually the opposite of ridiculously irresponsible....kids in the Dakotas drive early because many of them are working on the farm. When you realize what farm kids do at 12 and 14.....it isn't that kids (as a group) aren't ready for responsibility - its that we (as a group) often aren't ready for them to have it.

But it IS the Dakotas - it isn't like there is much to hit on the road......

 

[DVCLiz]

Its actually the opposite of ridiculously irresponsible....kids in the Dakotas drive early because many of them are working on the farm. When you realize what farm kids do at 12 and 14.....it isn't that kids (as a group) aren't ready for responsibility - its that we (as a group) often aren't ready for them to have it.
But it IS the Dakotas - it isn't like there is much to hit on the road......

Boy, I think that's such a true statement in a lot of parenting!!! I bet our kids would be rising to the challenge in MANY areas if we loosened up a little and put our faith in them instead of waiting until the last possible minute to let them do something other kids their age have been doing for a long time.

 

[princessmom29]

Its actually the opposite of ridiculously irresponsible....kids in the Dakotas drive early because many of them are working on the farm. When you realize what farm kids do at 12 and 14.....it isn't that kids (as a group) aren't ready for responsibility - its that we (as a group) often aren't ready for them to have it.

But it IS the Dakotas - it isn't like there is much to hit on the road......

You are absolutely right about farm kids. DH grew up on a 1,000 acre cattle farm and was driving the tractor unassisted by 10 and cutting hay by himself by 12. He was responsible enough to be trusted to do the job right. He had been going with his dad and helping with various jobs on the farm since 6 or 7. He knew what he was doing and was perfectly capable. Most kids who grow up on a working farm get this kind of experience early and are perfectly capable of driving on the roads by 14.

 

[crisi]

Boy, I think that's such a true statement in a lot of parenting!!! I bet our kids would be rising to the challenge in MANY areas if we loosened up a little and put our faith in them instead of waiting until the last possible minute to let them do something other kids their age have been doing for a long time.

Or look at what people have historically done. Laura Ingalls Wilder had her first teaching job at fifteen. Mark Twain was sent away from his family at 12 as a printer's apprentice. Boys as young as nine and ten enlisted in Civil War armies as drummer boys. Historically speaking - our kids are absolutely coddled. Not that the past was better - I don't want my eleven year old to get drafted to Iraq - but that kids are capable of handling a LOT more than we tend to give them credit for.

 

[NotUrsula]

You are absolutely right about farm kids. DH grew up on a 1,000 acre cattle farm and was driving the tractor unassisted by 10 and cutting hay by himself by 12. He was responsible enough to be trusted to do the job right. He had been going with his dad and helping with various jobs on the farm since 6 or 7. He knew what he was doing and was perfectly capable. Most kids who grow up on a working farm get this kind of experience early and are perfectly capable of driving on the roads by 14.

While I'm a city person now, I grew up on farmland and my family still has it, including the private roads. We make it a point to take all the kids out to the farm as often as possible to give them driving practice, starting when they are tall enough to reach the pedals and see out -- usually about age 11 or so. Everyone in my family gets a license on the birthday that makes it legally possible; it's a right of passage.

I have extended family overseas that run fishing boats on the North Sea, and we often send the boys to them to work summers as deckhands when they are in their mid teens (girls don't normally do it, but it's not unheard of.) It's not quite "Deadliest Catch" but it's not far off -- mess up and it is very possible to die for the mistake. It gives them a very fine appreciation for the importance of workplace safety and the relative ease of an office job, so it is a very good learning experience.

 

[Leajess99]

I need to ask the ones with little kids who say when their children are that age they will never let them go one question. Will you then not allow them to go on any school field trips in upper elem. or middle school? They go to amusement parks, water parks Zoos etc with very minimal adults present. Our middle school goes to a very large water park (larger than wet n wild) and they are on their own for the day. yes there are a few chaps but they don't go around with them. They also go to Chicago in middle school with the same ratio of adults.

It may be difficult to imagine when your kids are preschool that you will ever let go but it has to happen, they do grow up.

I went on the field trip with my son when he was in 8th grade (only field trip to a themepark) to Six Flags. I had been assigned a group of 6 kids and then ended up with 2 from the principal's group with me. I had an eye on all of those kids until just before it was time to go when 2 got off the ride and took off before myself and 2 others got off. I did my job and informed their coordinator so they could ensure the 2 (1 was from the principal's group and liked to do what she wanted to do without respect for authority) made it on the bus safely as we could not locate them. None of the kids in my group were embarassed and unlike many of the kids I knew my kids were all well hydrated, fed and had a blast. My son knew if he did not embarass me I would not embarass him. Those kids still talk about that trip.

I am very involved with my children's education and life and yes I am very protective of them. My kids love having me on field trips but if I cannot attend the field trip I know they are with parents and teachers who do care and do make sure they are taken care of.

 

[Leajess99]

I don't agree that every 15 1/2 year old is too young for a driver's license. Both of my daughters got a learner's permit at 15 and did/will be getting their driver's licenses at 16.

I'd be perfectly comfortable letting DD15 get a license and drive alone now if she could - we have 5 months to go and I am couting the days!! She's paid careful attention in her driver's ed course and she's practiced with me in the front seat sitting beside her for 6 months now. She's a cautious and careful driver who makes good decisions at pressure points like left-turn intersections, etc. I'm totally confident in her ability and I would never dream of making her wait until she was 17 to get a license. I think that would be ridiculously overprotective - because I see the moms who make their kids wait and they all, to a tee, fit the same mold. I'm not going to be that mom!!!
.

Not to scare you but I was once the "perfect" driver's ed and driver with mom and when I got my car and my license I was not so perfect. When I got with my friends we lost our minds and got stupid at times like many teens. We did donuts on the snow and ice (which I learned to drive on since my mother refused to let me take summer driver's ed classes as I lived in Michigan), would race down the road, and seriously act stupid. My son is old enough to get his license but right now we have chosen to wait. He knows some of what I did when I first started driving and he is also not in a hurry to get his license. He is not scared just wants to be sure (that also may be the result of having been in an accident with a drunk driver).

Here the driver's license for teens are also tied to academic behavior/grades and whether a person has dropped out or not.

We had a teen die a couple of years ago because he did not put his seatbelt on as he was in a hurry. A very wonderful and caring young man that I had watched mature. He had such a great future for himself and was an awesome soccer player but he made a mistake one time and it cost him his life.

 

[Leajess99]

I don't think I'd be okay with a middle school trip to a waterpark, personally. For me, water events warrant a higher level of caution/supervision than other situations. I'd have no problem with my kids going on the same middle and high school trips I did, to a major amusement park, a touristy/historic attraction, and then on overnight trips in high school, but waterparks and undersupervised teens just makes me nervous.

Would this be Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village?? Just curious as that was where we went for our 5th grade field trip and I so still want to make a special trip up there to take my kids. Or could it have been Mackinac?? My brother's 4rd or 5th grade class went on an overnight there. That was an awesome trip as my mom went too so i got to go.

 

[MariDisney]

It's not the girls I don't trust!!! They're great girls, all very responsible. It's the loony-toon, crazy people out there! In Orlando, we have had several reports recently of men molesting girls at water parks. It just makes it very scary. Would I be with her every minute? Absolutely not, but there is at least an adult there to keep an eye on things. And, what good is a cell phone if the inappropriateness already happened? The damage is done; a call at that point is too late.

I let her do quite a bit actually - she is allowed to go to Disney and Universal by herself, as well as the movies. It's the water parks that just don't feel right. Gotta go with your gut, right?

With all due respect, I don't see what good mom sitting on a chair (for example) would do if the groping (for example) happened in the wave pool. The inappropriateness already happened. Truly, it doesn't seem much safer to have a parent there unless the parent is literally with the child at every moment, which is unlikely with 13 year olds.

THat said, I do respect your decision as a parent to do what you feel is right. I'm sure your DD will be over it quickly.

 

[hroyale]

With all due respect, I don't see what good mom sitting on a chair (for example) would do if the groping (for example) happened in the wave pool. The inappropriateness already happened. Truly, it doesn't seem much safer to have a parent there unless the parent is literally with the child at every moment, which is unlikely with 13 year olds.

If a child is there with a parent she will have someone to goto for comfort and safety right after an incident if it did happen. More importantly she'd have someone to go tell about someone who was giving her a creepy vibe, even before he does anything that could be reported to a security guard.

Also the creeps might not be so attracted to girls who have a parent checking in on them as a group of girls on their own. AND what I feel is most important, they are less likely to be lured out of the park and actually taken away by someone charming and close to their own age.

I'm not saying it can't happen with a parent at the park with them, but IMO it helps reduce the risk.


Go with your instincts. I know at some point we need to let go there is still lots of time for that.

 

[DVCLiz]

Not to scare you but I was once the "perfect" driver's ed and driver with mom and when I got my car and my license I was not so perfect. When I got with my friends we lost our minds and got stupid at times like many teens. We did donuts on the snow and ice (which I learned to drive on since my mother refused to let me take summer driver's ed classes as I lived in Michigan), would race down the road, and seriously act stupid. My son is old enough to get his license but right now we have chosen to wait. He knows some of what I did when I first started driving and he is also not in a hurry to get his license. He is not scared just wants to be sure (that also may be the result of having been in an accident with a drunk driver).

Here the driver's license for teens are also tied to academic behavior/grades and whether a person has dropped out or not.

We had a teen die a couple of years ago because he did not put his seatbelt on as he was in a hurry. A very wonderful and caring young man that I had watched mature. He had such a great future for himself and was an awesome soccer player but he made a mistake one time and it cost him his life.

Sure, I know kids sometimes act up behind the wheel. Along with all of that training comes a lot of talk about making good decisions and a lot of privileges that can be yanked if I feel the need! I've also been watching their general maturity levels. I'm pretty sure no one is going to be racing or doing donuts, and they are both militant about wearing seatbelts.

As far as anyone can be sure that a teen is practicing good habits while driving alone, I am. And that's really all you can do - provide the education and training, put the expectations in place, and make an educated guess that your kid is going to follow the rules. That's the key to ANY independent action by an older child - whether it's going up to the counter to pay for a fast food lunch for the first time or going away to college. You trust your kid to give you back all the change instead of stealing part of it and you trust your college student to study and not flunk out or die of alcohol poisoning. It's all really a matter of trust and guesswork. And yes, sometimes things do go wrong!!

 

[crisi]

I have extended family overseas that run fishing boats on the North Sea, and we often send the boys to them to work summers as deckhands when they are in their mid teens (girls don't normally do it, but it's not unheard of.) It's not quite "Deadliest Catch" but it's not far off -- mess up and it is very possible to die for the mistake. It gives them a very fine appreciation for the importance of workplace safety and the relative ease of an office job, so it is a very good learning experience.

To me, the dichotomy is really fascinating. We have people who put their teenagers on commercial fishing boats, kids who drive tractors at ten or twelve, single moms who really don't have any choice but to have seven year old latchkey kids because they can't afford any after school care and need to hold a job, people who take their ten year olds deer hunting (well, they take their six year olds deer hunting, their ten years olds get their own rifle). One of my good friends put her seven and ten year old on a plane - they'll be met on the other end in South America by their grandparents - her son has been every continent but Antarctica in this fashion, this is her daughters first unescorted trip (Grandpa works for the UN). And we have people who won't let their ten year old go into the men's room at Disney World unescorted.

 

[JUJU814]

To me, the dichotomy is really fascinating. We have people who put their teenagers on commercial fishing boats, kids who drive tractors at ten or twelve, single moms who really don't have any choice but to have seven year old latchkey kids because they can't afford any after school care and need to hold a job, people who take their ten year olds deer hunting (well, they take their six year olds deer hunting, their ten years olds get their own rifle). One of my good friends put her seven and ten year old on a plane - they'll be met on the other end in South America by their grandparents - her son has been every continent but Antarctica in this fashion, this is her daughters first unescorted trip (Grandpa works for the UN). And we have people who won't let their ten year old go into the men's room at Disney World unescorted.

and every parent is within their rights to make the choices they see fit for their own children, right? Your good friend that lets her kids travel the world unescorted..it's her choice and perrogative. It's my choice that I would never do such a thing with such a young child. It's also my choice that I'm sending my 17 year old on a missions trip to Armenia next week for 2 weeks (my mom thinks I'm crazy)...but I stilll have an almost 8 year old that no way is going into a busy men's room by himself yet.

Couldn't most parents agree that we do the best we know how at the time we have to make a decision?

There sure is a lot of diversity out there. Funny how the only thing that doesn't come with an exact user manual is how to raise children!

 

[crisi]

and every parent is within their rights to make the choices they see fit for their own children, right? Your good friend that lets her kids travel the world unescorted..it's her choice and perrogative. It's my choice that I would never do such a thing with such a young child. It's also my choice that I'm sending my 17 year old on a missions trip to Armenia next week for 2 weeks (my mom thinks I'm crazy)...but I stilll have an almost 8 year old that no way is going into a busy men's room by himself yet.

Couldn't most parents agree that we do the best we know how at the time we have to make a decision?

There sure is a lot of diversity out there. Funny how the only thing that doesn't come with an exact user manual is how to raise children!

Sure. Although on the bathroom thing, at some point its inappropriate for a young man to be in the women's room, regardless of what decision his mother feels is best. And at some point its inappropriate to let your young kids fly alone - they should be old enough do so with very minimal inconvenience to the other travelers. In other words, parents need to use their best judgment - they know their own kids and their own family situation. But they also need to adhere to social norms.

 

[MineMail]

Back to the OP:

We have the same issue (unchaperoned kids) with friends of ours. It's just that we have different levels of comfort. They'll send their kids anywhere with anyone, whether or not an adult is going to be present. We want a chaperone for our kids in case something happens. Different strokes for different folks.

Tell your daughter that your rules are your rules. Don't send back any reply to the other father's remark. That was insensitive of him, but people who say things like that will not be swayed by confrontation. They'll just turn it around and attack you for approaching them. Ignore it and tell your daughter to stop bringing home the gossip because it's not going to change your mind. (Actually, it's a good lesson on resisting peer pressure - parental peer pressure, lol.)

Sounds like, even if the father was going to chaperone, he'd sack out on a beach chair and they'd still be unsupervised, so you can write them off.

Ask yourself how old your daughter would have to be before you'd let her go to this park without a chaperone. In my mind, it would be around 16-17, but you know your daughter and her friends better. Then tell her that's the rule.

To take it in another direction, it is hard to manage a toddler and an older child in a water or theme park. A few times, we went with family and let our older daughter go on slides with reliable adults while we took the little ones to the kiddie splash park.

When our little ones belonged in Bugs Bunny land and the oldest wanted to ride the Batman roller coaster, we also found that taking a RESPONSIBLE friend along let us divide and conquer. When they were around 15, we'd give them a time deadline and a walkie talkie/cell phone with specific instructions to meet back in an hour (or two, depending on crowds) at a certain place. We took the little ones on other things that they liked. If the older girls didn't call and weren't on time, they stayed with the group for a few rides. They quickly learned to "reach out and touch someone" or they'd be riding the carousel again. That worked out all right and taught the older ones responsibility and punctuality, lol.