Steubenville OH case, anyone hear of this?

[Cinderelly5507]

The OH Attorney General is also still investigating. Additional charges against others could be possible.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I'm glad justice was served, but it does seem like a light sentence to me. The poor girl has a long road ahead. I feel so very sorry for her. That's a lot to carry at such a young age. So young and betrayed in such a horrific way.

I waited up every night for the girls, and I will do the same for DS.

DH's rule (when he was young and single): No means no, maybe means no and yes means no in the morning. And anyone who can't walk upright by themselves means absolutely no freaking way no, do not walk, run away.

He'll teach DS the same when he is old enough. Right now, he's 9 and has no interest in girls.

We have taught him that you must step in to protect someone who can't protect themselves.
Last year, a 5th grader was picking on the younger kids on the way home from school. DS (2nd grader then) went to the school and us--the kid was never around when I was, and the school just shrugged it off and told DS to stay away from him. One day, he was picking on some K students, and DS had had enough. He stood up to the bully, and when the kid pushed him, DS pushed back. Kid fell over his bike and started crying. bully's mom called the school, school called me, we all had a conference. I told the mom if she had a problem with my son protecting kids 2 grades younger than him from her son 3 grades over him, she could kiss my ***.


If my son were one of those involved, the cops could pick him up after I was done beating his ***. He'd probably be the one calling them to come get him, because momma doesn't tolerate that nonsense.

Good for you telling the bully's mom about reality! Sometimes I think bullies parents don't want to believe what their kids do. Also it seems there are times the parents truly don't have a clue because the school won't get involved unless a bully has crossed the very.last.line. In my experience, the school will offer counseling to the victim for how to deal with bullies before they will address the bully and the core problem. How crazy is that?!

Awesome your son stood up to him when he was so much older. That is something to be very proud of.

Anyway, we're raising our kids the same way.

My husband and I have had talks about the spectrum of alcohol use (and will continue to do so).

We also talk about respecting oneself and others including looking out for your peers as you would want them to look out for you.

You can bet we will be waiting up and interested in what is going on in our kids lives.

 

[LisaR]

Obviously my post didn't come across as I meant it to. What she went through was nothing less than horrific. Have you followed the story to know what I was trying to say about "traditional"? I didn't not mean forceful or not forceful. In trying to keep this post as PG as possible, I did not write it on the Dis, but when one "typically" thinks of rape it is a particular sexual act that did not happen here. The whole point of my post was that adults (parents and coaches in this situation) need to talk to kids about what is appropriate and inappropriate. The kids, (including the victim and witnesses) didn't understand that what occurred was rape. I see that as a huge problem.

You don't think these teens understood that what occurred was rape? These were 16 and 17 y/o boys. They absolutely knew what they were doing. They knew it was wrong. They knew it was criminal. They knew it was unacceptable behavior. They knew it was rape. I have no doubt about that. Just what do you believe they thought it was?

 

[Cinderelly5507]

You don't think these teens understood that what occurred was rape? These were 16 and 17 y/o boys. They absolutely knew what they were doing. They knew it was wrong. They knew it was criminal. They knew it was unacceptable behavior. They knew it was rape. I have no doubt about that. Just what do you believe they thought it was?

The witnesses and victim testified that they didn't know it was rape-- they believed that rape is forceful, sex, etc... To them (not to me) the digital penetration (which is what occurred) was not something they considered rape before all if this came out. Sadly, I believe them. They knew it was wrong, but I don't think they thought it was rape. At least one witness testified that what he saw was nothing out of the ordinary. THAT is scary.

 

[LisaR]

The witnesses and victim testified that they didn't know it was rape-- they believed that rape is forceful, sex, etc... To them (not to me) the digital penetration (which is what occurred) was not something they considered rape before all if this came out. Sadly, I believe them. They knew it was wrong, but I don't think they thought it was rape. At least one witness testified that what he saw was nothing out of the ordinary. THAT is scary.

This is where you and I disagree. When grown men find little kids to sexually abuse, most don't think there is anything wrong with it. Most will define it as a "loving, caring relationship." It is my guess, based on everything I have read about these pond scum boys, that this is very normal weekend behavior. In their eyes, there wasn't anything wrong with what they did. Many witnesses testified to that. That doesn't mean that they don't know it was rape, they simply didn't see anything wrong with it. Again, adult men that have sex with six year old children know damn good and well that what they are doing is rape. They simply don't see anything wrong with it.

I do agree with you that this is a huge parenting failure. It sounds like these boys were out of control on a regular basis in the homes of these useless parents. But even so, these boys knew what they were doing was wrong. I don't care what word they tried to justify it with, they still knew it wasn't right.

 

[Cinderelly5507]

This is where you and I disagree. When grown men find little kids to sexually abuse, most don't think there is anything wrong with it. Most will define it as a "loving, caring relationship." It is my guess, based on everything I have read about these pond scum boys, that this is very normal weekend behavior. In their eyes, there wasn't anything wrong with what they did. Many witnesses testified to that. That doesn't mean that they don't know it was rape, they simply didn't see anything wrong with it. Again, adult men that have sex with six year old children know damn good and well that what they are doing is rape. They simply don't see anything wrong with it.

I do agree with you that this is a huge parenting failure. It sounds like these boys were out of control on a regular basis in the homes of these useless parents. But even so, these boys knew what they were doing was wrong. I don't care what word they tried to justify it with, they still knew it wasn't right.

I agree with you about the pedophiles. I guess I'm just confused on what these boys thought it was since the victim herself was. I don't know that any of them ever said what they thought it was-besides "not abnormal." I'm afraid that these kids aren't being taught respect or do not have any real moral compass. I'm probably not the best as explaining myself on a discussion board. I am glad the defendants are where they are at. I in no way am what the poster above has called me or said about me.
This truly did come down to the semantics of the word rape. One defendant even texted "I should've raped her. Everyone thinks I did anyways" (may not be exact quote). I'm just flabbergasted by this case all around.

 

[beavismom]

For those who think the boys didn't know that was rape, I guess you didn't watch Michael Nodianos' video or hear that the group called themselves a "rape crew". They knew exactly what they did, knew it was wrong, and didn't even feel bad until they got caught. I just wish they could prosecute everyone who didn't come to this girl's defense.

 

[Cinderelly5507]

For those who think the boys didn't know that was rape, I guess you didn't watch Michael Nodianos' video or hear that the group called themselves a "rape crew". They knew exactly what they did, knew it was wrong, and didn't even feel bad until they got caught. I just wish they could prosecute everyone who didn't come to this girl's defense.

Good point! I have seen the video, and Nodi is an idiot. That video will (rightfully) haunt him for the rest of his life. Maybe they do know it is rape, and yet, no one did anything. Maybe its the naivety in me not wanting to believe that a large group of teens (total of 43 at least at one of the parties) could know someone was being raped and not do something! I have a feeling that since none of this was "abnormal" that this has happened (maybe many times) before. And a similar incident involving these members is supposedly being investigates in addition to (or with-- I'm not sure) the Grand Jury/Oh Attorney General investigation. Three witnesses were granted immunity, but I do think more charges could come from this.

 

[happygirl]

They must also register as sex offenders. THAT will follow them forever.

Since they are minors, won't that come off when they turn 21

 

[MickeySP]

From reading the laws in Ohio it seems it is discretoinary to each case.

Juvenile sex offenders in Ohio will no longer be required to register as sex offenders for life, the state’s Supreme Court ruled last week. The 5-2 decision ruled the lifetime requirement is cruel and unusual punishment, reigniting a national debate on how young people convicted of certain sexual offenses should fare under the criminal justice system.

From Juvenile Justice Information Exchange site.

So they could be subjected but it seems to have to meet specific criteria, which in reading it may not.

 

[Social Worker Sue]

These teenage boys are very bad people. They have ruined their own lives, and the life of a 16 year old girl I wonder when they turn 40 if they will look back and figure out what was wrong with themselves at the age of 17

I will add, the mother of the 16 year old girl said that the girl wants to just get back to her normal life. I hope that is not the case, since the girl's normal life included getting very drunk on a regular basis. Drunk to the point where she could not even attempt to fend off these monsters (who were also drunk). I hope she can get some counseling and does not return to drinking.

I bet the adult that purchased this alcohol is very scared right now. As they should be.

 

[Cinderelly5507]

These teenage boys are very bad people. They have ruined their own lives, and the life of a 16 year old girl I wonder when they turn 40 if they will look back and figure out what was wrong with themselves at the age of 17

I will add, the mother of the 16 year old girl said that the girl wants to just get back to her normal life. I hope that is not the case, since the girl's normal life included getting very drunk on a regular basis. Drunk to the point where she could not even attempt to fend off these monsters (who were also drunk). I hope she can get some counseling and does not return to drinking.

I bet the adult that purchased this alcohol is very scared right now. As they should be.

There was a very good article on Yahoo! about this case, and the arrogance of these boys. I agree that I hope the girl isn't doing these activities anymore. I would hope that everyone could learn a lesson from this, but at 16/17, I don't know. Even with the social media so prevalent in the case, there were several teens making threats against the victim, yesterday on Twitter. As if they've learned nothing.

I'm thinking there are many adults scared right now! Those that contributed to the crime, as well as those that are rumored to have tried to cover it up.

 

[cabanafrau]

Oh I agree, the big issue is rape. IMO, I think kidnapping should also be a charge among other things. It appears the alcohol was used as a tool to incapacitate the victim.

I've read a few texts that went back and forth. There was a plan to rape the victim. I'm not sure when the plan was formulated, but it seemed like it was before the party.

I believe there are probably some pictures and video that someone has not deleted. They were distributed widely. I hope and pray someone comes forward with these items and justice can be fully served.

Premeditation is not legally determined by a measurement of time. If I decide to sexually assault someone and instantaneously do so it is premeditated, whether I act in a split second or plot out an opportunity.

 

[kellyg403]

There was a very good article on Yahoo! about this case, and the arrogance of these boys. I agree that I hope the girl isn't doing these activities anymore. I would hope that everyone could learn a lesson from this, but at 16/17, I don't know. Even with the social media so prevalent in the case, there were several teens making threats against the victim, yesterday on Twitter. As if they've learned nothing.

I'm thinking there are many adults scared right now! Those that contributed to the crime, as well as those that are rumored to have tried to cover it up.

BBM. I agree. Whoever got the alcohol to start with should be held accountible as well.

To me, this whole thing is a sad commentary on where we as a society are going. 43 people, a video and a drunk girl and NO ONE..not a single person though this is wrong? Were to scared to stop it but I wager to guess all of them had cell phones and could have made an ANNONYMOUS phone call to 911 or the police or someone????

Kelly

 

[Cinderelly5507]

They were too busy videotaping, taking pictures, and posting it on social media to call cops.

If someone could link me to the texts of the plan, I'd appreciate it. I didn't hear anything from the prosecution about this. I have heard that it was "orchestrated" by her ex boyfriend for breaking up with him. I just wondered why I hadn't heard anything about it being introduced in court.

 

[EMHDad]

I have been following the story since the beginning. I just had not posted yet in here. I was just reading a followup story after the verdict and I am really troubled. Not about the rape. I am not saying that I am not bothered by the rape. This was a heinous act of course. However, that is a clear and evident aspect of the story.

What really bothered me is the background behind the story. The reality of the weak ethics of the teen population. The idea that the youth just didnt understand the difference between right and wrong. (Not that this excuses behavior). The idea that this event is probably not a single isolated incident, but a reflection of a culture that just doesnt get it. That these youth dont understand what rape is. How can you not understand what rape is??

My boys are 6 and 3, but as a parent I just fear the culture they are growing up in sometimes.

 

[Cinderelly5507]

I have been following the story since the beginning. I just had not posted yet in here. I was just reading a followup story after the verdict and I am really troubled. Not about the rape. I am not saying that I am not bothered by the rape. This was a heinous act of course. However, that is a clear and evident aspect of the story.

What really bothered me is the background behind the story. The reality of the weak ethics of the teen population. The idea that the youth just didnt understand the difference between right and wrong. (Not that this excuses behavior). The idea that this event is probably not a single isolated incident, but a reflection of a culture that just doesnt get it. That these youth dont understand what rape is. How can you not understand what rape is??

My boys are 6 and 3, but as a parent I just fear the culture they are growing up in sometimes.

You put into words exactly what I was trying to say earlier! As a parent, as a human being,, I find the entire situation frightening.

 

[RadioNate]

I have been following the story since the beginning. I just had not posted yet in here. I was just reading a followup story after the verdict and I am really troubled. Not about the rape. I am not saying that I am not bothered by the rape. This was a heinous act of course. However, that is a clear and evident aspect of the story.

What really bothered me is the background behind the story. The reality of the weak ethics of the teen population. The idea that the youth just didnt understand the difference between right and wrong. (Not that this excuses behavior). The idea that this event is probably not a single isolated incident, but a reflection of a culture that just doesnt get it. That these youth dont understand what rape is. How can you not understand what rape is??

My boys are 6 and 3, but as a parent I just fear the culture they are growing up in sometimes.

I think people are hung up on the semantics of the word rape. I'm not sure I would have immediately used that word. Sexual assault, ABSOLUTELY. I think people are too narrowly focused on the terminology of the crime when all the matters is that everyone in that room should have know that something wrong was happening. Even if they all didn't understand it was criminal, they all should have known it wasn't ok. THAT to me is the horrific thing.

The ****-shaming and victim-blaming happening is disgusting.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I think people are hung up on the semantics of the word rape. I'm not sure I would have immediately used that word. Sexual assault, ABSOLUTELY. I think people are too narrowly focused on the terminology of the crime when all the matters is that everyone in that room should have know that something wrong was happening. Even if they all didn't understand it was criminal, they all should have known it wasn't ok. THAT to me is the horrific thing.

The ****-shaming and victim-blaming happening is disgusting.

Most definitely!!

 

[kellyg403]

I have been following the story since the beginning. I just had not posted yet in here. I was just reading a followup story after the verdict and I am really troubled. Not about the rape. I am not saying that I am not bothered by the rape. This was a heinous act of course. However, that is a clear and evident aspect of the story.

What really bothered me is the background behind the story. The reality of the weak ethics of the teen population. The idea that the youth just didnt understand the difference between right and wrong. (Not that this excuses behavior). The idea that this event is probably not a single isolated incident, but a reflection of a culture that just doesnt get it. That these youth dont understand what rape is. How can you not understand what rape is??

My boys are 6 and 3, but as a parent I just fear the culture they are growing up in sometimes.

I agree wholeheartedly. I could almost understand if there was some fear of death by a couple people involved. The only ones involved. But this happened with more than 2 people involved. Out of ALL those people no one stepped forward, even in secret. Its seriously appaling.

Years and years ago, I read an article by I believe Dr. Dobson. I know that he isn't someone everyone believes or takes to heart, but sometimes he nails it. This article was about right/wrong and instilling in our children the need to understand that. Parents who constantly intervene in those areas do their children a disservice in never feeling the consequences that come from right and wrong. That moral code is instilled in our children by the age of 8. After that it is difficult to do. For some reason, I have always felt that was right on target. By the time my children were 10, they had a conscience knowledge of right/wrong in any situation and the possible consequences. These kids were involved in the cover up after, so my guess is they knew right from wrong, just had never been in a situation where they felt the consequences of making poor choices.

I just have a hard time fathoming that no one felt it was right to call someone or tell someone in fear of the ostracized by the ones who were culpable for the crime.

Kelly