State of Fast Pass Return (or replacement)

[CSLucas]

I don’t think they’re going to charge for optimizing plans. What I think they’ll charge for is additional wishes (aka FP+). I think everyone will get a certain number of wishes for free.

This is what I suspect as well - optimized plans help them so they are going to want as many people doing that option as possible. This is one of those places that I also think we will see hugely improved guest experience if people agree to use to Genie app for that sort of thing since it will avoid situations where rides are suddenly walk-on while everyone crowds at the same place.
I think giving number of wishes based on where you are staying, whether you are AP, etc. is what makes the most sense and if I were gambling on this that's where I would place my money. And, since this is Disney and they don't like to leave money behind, I'm sure there will be expensive ways for guests to essentially upgrade to a higher tier.

 

[Marionnette]

It would also, I suspect, limit their ability to sell DVC points. I can see them making a distinction for free FPS or wishes or whatever for blue card vs white card owners but not cutting DVC out entirely.

I don't believe that they can make a blue card vs white card distinction unless DVD (the developer) is the one paying for that benefit. If it's a "resort benefit, then everyone staying at that resort qualifies. If it's a "member benefit, then it could be a done, but that would also exclude cash guests and other renters.

 

[jade1]

I'll be thrilled if WDW doesn't give them away to onsite guests, or give some other meaningful incentive for staying onsite. That will mean I can cancel my outrageously expensive reservations and save a ton of money by staying offsite.

Waiting to see what the situation is. If some type of FP comes back and is tied to staying onsite, then there's about a 95% chance I'll choose that route, even if the room does cost me twice as much.

Yea I think WDW knows this as well and want their hotels filled first. Will be interesting.

 

[glocker]

So just to be clear: the problem is that they don’t have a fifth gate. Your issue with them is that they haven’t spent 10s of billions on a new park. yet you think the rest of the problem is they’ve increased hotel rooms, so I assume you think they should add this new gate without adding rooms or capacity.

What’s funny about these debates is they always seem to end up at “Disney should do more for free.” Longer hours, another park, more rides, more shows. None of that will help — the bigger the “value” the more people will come. The only sure fire way for WDW to reduce crowds is to keep raising prices until they reach a mass breaking point. Anything short of that is mitigation.

I don't get your logic, and I've never asked Disney to do anything for free. Everything Disney has done is calculated to increase revenue. Hotels and DVC print money for them. Restaurants and shopping at Disney Springs allow Disney to play landlord and rake in the dough. I would bet that parks have the lowest margins, therefore they are uninterested in building another gate to alleviate crowding. Instead they have chosen your method: increase revenue per guest to decrease the number of guests in the parks. Disney has never been a cheap vacation, but it used to be reasonable. Additionally, many were happy to pay exorbitant prices because the service was world class. People gripe when they feel they are not getting their money's worth; each move Disney makes lately has guests questioning the worth of the product. There IS a breaking point and we are getting nearer. We'll see what happens.

 

[SarahWI]

I don't believe that they can make a blue card vs white card distinction unless DVD (the developer) is the one paying for that benefit. If it's a "resort benefit, then everyone staying at that resort qualifies. If it's a "member benefit, then it could be a done, but that would also exclude cash guests and other renters.

That’s good! We have a blue card but also have an interest in the resale market remaining strong.

 

[preemiemama]

With what is released now about the Genie app, I do not think the app itself will be paid for. Making dining reservations, checking wait times etc. will remain free, I think. I can see the option to get optimized touring plans to be a paid service. With that they can pull away guests from sites like Touring Plans.

I agree with you there. The app and certain functions (like ADRs) will more than likely be free. But I see pieces of it ("wishes"- maybe beyond a certain threshold?- and optimized plans) being paid.

 

[Karin1984]

I agree with you there. The app and certain functions (like ADRs) will more than likely be free. But I see pieces of it ("wishes"- maybe beyond a certain threshold?- and optimized plans) being paid.

I do hope they will have a clever meme / 'error' message when you try to get more than 3 wishes. Genie said that you could not wish for more wishes... Genie never said anything about paying for more wishes ;-)

 

[dato63]

I agree with you there. The app and certain functions (like ADRs) will more than likely be free. But I see pieces of it ("wishes"- maybe beyond a certain threshold?- and optimized plans) being paid.

It does make sense to me, that if people are paying for touring plans - that Disney could try to cash in on that. They surely already have the data, history, information to make it available. . . .so flipping it as another source of revenue, and taking it away from 3rd parties wouldn't seem a stretch.

 

[ofcabbagesandkings]

There just has to be some FP perks to staying on site, especially after removing DME. I mean we love staying on site but if they go to paid FP only then we’ll find the cheapest off-site or use points off-site and just load up paid FP with the difference. I really think they’re taking for granted that those thousands of value rooms really only fill up at all because of the on site perks.

Agreed. I was even considering buying resale DVC points before the pandemic and now? No way. DME - gone. One hour EMH in the morning - gone. Free Magic Bands - gone. And now very likely 3 Free FP, 60 days out - gone. I did have the former ADR and FP system mastered, but I can see where they may have gotten a ton of complaints from first-timers who didn't bother to research, showed up at the gates the first day of their trip and found themselves shut out of short waits for all of the newest rides. So now they're putting those first timers on even footing, if they're willing to pay up, and hoping that the Disney uber-fans will just grumble but put up with it like we always have. Honestly, if my upcoming first trip to the dark side goes well, I may never come back. But if I do, I'll be staying off-site.

 

[mercuryvenus]

Agreed. I was even considering buying resale DVC points before the pandemic and now? No way. DME - gone. One hour EMH in the morning - gone. Free Magic Bands - gone. And now very likely 3 Free FP, 60 days out - gone. I did have the former ADR and FP system mastered, but I can see where they may have gotten a ton of complaints from first-timers who didn't bother to research, showed up at the gates the first day of their trip and found themselves shut out of short waits for all of the newest rides. So now they're putting those first timers on even footing, if they're willing to pay up, and hoping that the Disney uber-fans will just grumble but put up with it like we always have. Honestly, if my upcoming first trip to the dark side goes well, I may never come back. But if I do, I'll be staying off-site.

I don’t think it’s true that it’s very likely that the 3 free FP+ are gone. The genie app very well could provide that. We just don’t know yet.

 

[Mac30188]

Agreed. I was even considering buying resale DVC points before the pandemic and now? No way. DME - gone. One hour EMH in the morning - gone. Free Magic Bands - gone. And now very likely 3 Free FP, 60 days out - gone. I did have the former ADR and FP system mastered, but I can see where they may have gotten a ton of complaints from first-timers who didn't bother to research, showed up at the gates the first day of their trip and found themselves shut out of short waits for all of the newest rides. So now they're putting those first timers on even footing, if they're willing to pay up, and hoping that the Disney uber-fans will just grumble but put up with it like we always have. Honestly, if my upcoming first trip to the dark side goes well, I may never come back. But if I do, I'll be staying off-site.

I am not sure the motivation for changing FP was due to customer satisfaction. Based on the rumors, I can imagine the Key Result that defines success is revenue increase. Customer satisfaction is a metric that they want to maintain at best and improve ideally, but success is not defined by customers being happier then they were with FastPass.

I like Universal, but it is a very different feel. Disney feels larger than life. Universal feels more intimate. Staying at one of the resorts at Citywalk is satisfying knowing I can walk everywhere I need to go and never have to take a bus at all. Universal seems to cater to a slightly older crowd where Disney seems to be more family oriented. Unfortunately, Universal's smaller size and reliance on many screen rides tends to make it a quicker trip. It is still very fun, there is just less to do and you will be ready to go home sooner. For me, liking one does not in anyway impact me liking the other. I hope to continue to visit both in my future vacations.

Therefore for me it is all about the value I get from Disney. For most of my life, I have associated Disney as a slam dunk of a way to spend an enjoyable vacation. The trip I have coming up is the first time I have ever seriously considered will I have a good time at Disney? It is definitely the least excited I have ever been for a trip to Disney and that in itself maybe a sign I should postpone.

 

[dez1978]

I’m starting to plan for our November trip and am just operating on the assumption that no FP+/Genie app will be available.

What’s clear to me is that taking advantage of those extended evening hours is going to be critical for reducing wait times. It would be really nice if Disney would announce when those will be.

My tentative strategy is to reserve the most popular rides for those evening slots and try to get into each park at least once during an extended evening hours time slot. We’ll be taking our then 5 year old and the grandparents, so my thought is to do half-days in the park, go back to the hotel for swimming/relaxation, and then go back into whatever park is offering extended evening hours (on the days when that’s happening).

Then I want to shoot for the following rides during that time:

Epcot: Test Track, Frozen, Remy, Soarin’

MK: Mine Train, Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan

AK: Avatar, Everest

HS: Smugglers Run, Rock n Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror, Swirling Saucers, Runaway Railway, Slinky Dog, Toy Story Mania <— This park is by far the most difficult for me to figure out how to plan, because it has the most rides with crazy wait times. I know it’s almost certainly unrealistic to expect to get all this done in one extended evening hours day, so we might just have to suck it up and do a couple long waits during the day.

Just my opinion, but I think they will wait and release these hours a month or 2 ahead of time, which will force some people to pay for hoppers when they wouldn't ordinarily, bc by the time they announce when these evening hours are, it will be too late to change your park reservations around.

 

[ziravan]

So just to be clear: the problem is that they don’t have a fifth gate. Your issue with them is that they haven’t spent 10s of billions on a new park. yet you think the rest of the problem is they’ve increased hotel rooms, so I assume you think they should add this new gate without adding rooms or capacity.

What’s funny about these debates is they always seem to end up at “Disney should do more for free.” Longer hours, another park, more rides, more shows. None of that will help — the bigger the “value” the more people will come. The only sure fire way for WDW to reduce crowds is to keep raising prices until they reach a mass breaking point. Anything short of that is mitigation.

Longer hours isn’t “for free”. With theses levels of crowds, that’s more hours of spending, both on items and on food. Yes. At the cost of labor, but at that point the employee costs are built in and you’re just leaning on those costs for a few more man hours.

WDW flexes up its hours all the time when crowds dictate they’ll make money to do so. That being the case, more hours now is on a curve. Maybe not completely break even but if you can recoup 90% of the cost in extra sales, the question of whether 10% is worth the good will isn’t the same question as giving something away “for free”.

 

[Pookie9922]

Agreed. I was even considering buying resale DVC points before the pandemic and now? No way. DME - gone. One hour EMH in the morning - gone. Free Magic Bands - gone. And now very likely 3 Free FP, 60 days out - gone. I did have the former ADR and FP system mastered, but I can see where they may have gotten a ton of complaints from first-timers who didn't bother to research, showed up at the gates the first day of their trip and found themselves shut out of short waits for all of the newest rides. So now they're putting those first timers on even footing, if they're willing to pay up, and hoping that the Disney uber-fans will just grumble but put up with it like we always have. Honestly, if my upcoming first trip to the dark side goes well, I may never come back. But if I do, I'll be staying off-site.

In my mind, if you pay $5-10K+ for a vacation and you just show up at the gate without doing any research, then it's on you. That's just dumb. Sure, you shouldn't have to spend 6 months on the message boards to be able to have a good trip, (doing that just gets you the best trip!) but basic research is required for any vacation.

 

[Future_WorldPhonencian]

Another article about FP kiosks being uncovered. At the very least there is testing going on with them. I think an announcement is imminent for better or worse. https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/myma...e-possibility-of-a-paid-fastpass-offering.htm

 

[HopperFan]

Extra Magic Hours- in the PM at least- have been turned into paid Early Morning and After Hours. That has been that way for several years now. And DME is most definitely being replaced with something paid- whether Disney charges or not. Paid FP is coming in some form.

But that's not exactly true. After Hours was never the same thing as EMH. Nighttime EMH never had the drastically reduced crowds or the exclusivity of After Hours, nor stuff like free snacks. EMM was never the same as morning EMH, and you can make the case that morning EMH has been extended from what it was pre-COVID.

And in those cases -- like with the resort parking -- we're talking about reduced benefits for resort guests. We're not talking about something that has been free to EVERYONE. It would be the equivalent of charging for the monorail. While they do have a history of changing things that could be considered for the worse, they don't have one of just sticking a price tag on something.

Sorry, but this is just not true. EMH at night used to be for resort guests and WAS reduced crowds. The original system had you show up at a designated place with your resort ID to receive a wrist band. Those with the wristbands were allowed to stay until 1:00 AM (I believe). This is when Disney had significantly fewer resort options and it was awesome. My wife and I used to walk into every ride in the park with no wait.

@whiporee is correct.

Extra Magic Hours at night were free hours for ALL Disney RESORT GUESTS ONLY to do whatever was open. (they often closed some dining and shopping locations). The only thing reduced about it ... it was for resort guests only, which at high occupancy could be a full park. Of course, not everyone participated. This event was much better when there were several a week at each park that hosted. Once they reduced it to only maybe once a week and less hours, it became more crowded.

After Hours were a paid event for EVERYONE to enjoy attractions, had minimal shops open and FREE Ice Cream, Popcorn and Bottled Drinks. Some of the events were slightly more expensive and offered some characters and theming. This is a limited capacity event although over the years the numbers have grown.

The two are completely different events. The only thing the same is they occur after the park closes to regular ticket holders.

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Extra Magic Hours in the morning were free hours for ALL Disney RESORT GUESTS ONLY, to do whatever was open. There would often be dining at places with breakfast open. The only thing reduced about it was it was for resort guests only, which at high occupancy could be a full park. Of course, not everyone participated.

Early Morning Magic is a paid event for EVERYONE to enjoy attractions in a specific area and included a breakfast buffet. This had a very limited capacity because it was limited to one area of park, and food.

The two are completely different events. The only thing the same is they are before the park opens to general guests, you are either a resort guest or you paid to enter.

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And in case no one remembers, Disney Resort Guests used to have to PAY to do "extra magic hours." They were called "E Ride Ticket Nights". Guests would pay an extra $15 to have what became free Extra Magic Hours.

Honestly, charging for limited capacity After Hours is a great idea financially for Disney. And if these holiday After Hours events are a success we may never see another Halloween or Christmas party again.

Disney depends on non-Disney hotel guests more than their own hotel guests to fill those parks, so any decision they make does factor in those guests ... they already hooked the Disney Hotel guest, they now have to keep the non-hotel guest engaged and not moving their spending up the road.

 

[ellbell]

Another article about FP kiosks being uncovered. At the very least there is testing going on with them. I think an announcement is imminent for better or worse. https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/myma...e-possibility-of-a-paid-fastpass-offering.htm

Based on posts like this an announcement has been imminent since May. I wouldn't hold your breath

 

[Loro]

Another article about FP kiosks being uncovered. At the very least there is testing going on with them. I think an announcement is imminent for better or worse. https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/myma...e-possibility-of-a-paid-fastpass-offering.htm

It certainly does seem like this could be a sign.

 

[glocker]

@whiporee is correct.

Extra Magic Hours at night were free hours for ALL Disney RESORT GUESTS ONLY to do whatever was open. (they often closed some dining and shopping locations). The only thing reduced about it ... it was for resort guests only, which at high occupancy could be a full park. Of course, not everyone participated. This event was much better when there were several a week at each park that hosted. Once they reduced it to only maybe once a week and less hours, it became more crowded.

After Hours were a paid event for EVERYONE to enjoy attractions, had minimal shops open and FREE Ice Cream, Popcorn and Bottled Drinks. Some of the events were slightly more expensive and offered some characters and theming. This is a limited capacity event although over the years the numbers have grown.

The two are completely different events. The only thing the same is they occur after the park closes to regular ticket holders.

--------
Extra Magic Hours in the morning were free hours for ALL Disney RESORT GUESTS ONLY, to do whatever was open. There would often be dining at places with breakfast open. The only thing reduced about it was it was for resort guests only, which at high occupancy could be a full park. Of course, not everyone participated.

Early Morning Magic is a paid event for EVERYONE to enjoy attractions in a specific area and included a breakfast buffet. This had a very limited capacity because it was limited to one area of park, and food.

--------

And in case no one remembers, Disney Resort Guests used to have to PAY to do "extra magic hours." They were called "E Ride Ticket Nights". Guests would pay an extra $15 to have what became free Extra Magic Hours.

Honestly, charging for limited capacity After Hours is a great idea financially for Disney. And if these holiday After Hours events are a success we may never see another Halloween or Christmas party again.

Disney depends on non-Disney hotel guests more than their own hotel guests to fill those parks, so any decision they make does factor in those guests ... they already hooked the Disney Hotel guest, they now have to keep the non-hotel guest engaged and not moving their spending up the road.

You are splitting hairs. What I called EMH may have been called something different 20 years ago; my point was that it was "exclusive" to resort guests (there were far fewer resorts) and had free "significantly reduced" waiting because even if all resort guests stayed, there were plenty of rides to disperse them. Disney has spent too much time looking to grow profits instead of guest experience. The perks that were afforded to onsite guests have been slowly replaced with paid options. This is an unarguable point.

 

[Looper]

It certainly does seem like this could be a sign.

I wish they’d just rip the bandaid off and let us know what is or isn’t happening. We go in 18 days, and I keep telling my kids to keep their expectations much lower than when we went in May (when we were able to ride Splash 3x in a day…).