Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[BrianL]

Say why you want, but a Star Wars movie in the middle of that mix taking last place is embarrassing IMO, and far more embarrassing how they all did Worldwide.

Agree with Antman taking a bit of a hit being the 3rd Marvel in 4 months, but even it did better domestic and 50% more than Solo WW,

Black Panther Feb 13 $700M / $1.3B
Avengers: Infinity War: April 27 - $678 M / $1.3B
Deadpool 2: May 18 - $318 M / $785M

Solo: A Star Wars Story May 25 - $213 M / $392M

Incredibles 2: June 15 - $608 M / $1.2B
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom: June 22 - $417 M / $1.3B
Ant Man & The Wasp: July 6 - $216 M / $622

But back to the release, have heard a few good rumors and some not so good (IMO), so its just the final cut that will matter.

Repeat viewing will be what they need most IMO.

No, I get it. They should have scheduled it better and marketed it better and made a lot of better decisions for it. It definitely suffered - the only thing I am saying is that I don't think it suffered due to proximity to The Last Jedi as many say, and more that it suffered in proximity to that VERY, VERY strong lineup above.

 

[Moliphino]

Well, I get what you're saying, but your dates are off:

Domestic Release Date & Totals:
Avengers: Infinity War: April 27 - $678 M
Deadpool 2: May 18 - $318 M
Solo: May 25 - $213 M
Incredibles 2: June 15 - $608 M
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom: June 22 - $417 M
Ant Man & The Wasp: July 6 - $216 M

That's $2.45 B in US Box Office revenue. They couldn't all make $500 M based on that, but when they all need to make at least that to cover the budget, well, some are not going to make it.

That's a crowded schedule and things get squeezed out. Ant-Man and Solo were the losers. You can't go by worldwide totals for this because movies don't release in all regions at the same time, so the wallet-share can be spread out. Looking at the above, Solo was pretty close to Ant-Man in the US. Star Wars does have trouble with International appeal. I totally get it - Solo failed, no question, but many people are making assumptions as to why without even having the facts straight. The above list is facts (source: Box Office Mojo) - you can infer whatever conclusion you like, but there are actually a lot more factors that go into it.

I wouldn't call Ant-Man and the Wasp a loser, it wasn't expected to do Avengers level money. It still did better than the first Ant-Man movie.

 

[BrianL]

I wouldn't call Ant-Man and the Wasp a loser, it wasn't expected to do Avengers level money. It still did better than the first Ant-Man movie.

Oh, true. And it's budget was much more reasonable. Still, in that grouping, it probably got squeezed. One has to remember that Solo still did a LOT of money - just not enough for it's very bloated budget and well below expectations. For most movies, that would be considered a good number, at least it should be, which it one of the biggest problems with Hollywood right now - expecting that everything can make a billion dollars.

 

[Mikey15]

Say why you want, but a Star Wars movie in the middle of that mix taking last place is embarrassing IMO, and far more embarrassing how they all did Worldwide.

I think the North America numbers tell the story more so than the global ones. It must be that the global (China, big one) audience grew up on the last 11 years of Marvel movies and even Jurassic Park, but didn't with the original Star Wars trilogy the way North America did. Looking only at global performance makes all Star Wars movies look worse, not just Solo and TLJ.

TFA is still #1 domestic (unadjusted). Not even Endgame overtook it ($80m shy). It's #4 global, with only a 55% "foreign" take compared to the 65-70% the other films at the top get.
The only comparable Marvel is Black Panther, which is #4 domestic, but #11 global, with just 48% "foreign" box office. It was actually ahead of Infinity War in North America.

Foreign box office is large enough now that even breaking-even domestic you can still make a crapton of money overall. Star Wars does skew North American though, and the rise and fall of its films will continue to be where it fits in for North American appeal and release schedule.

 

[Brianstl]

Well, I get what you're saying, but your dates are off:

Domestic Release Date & Totals:
Avengers: Infinity War: April 27 - $678 M
Deadpool 2: May 18 - $318 M
Solo: May 25 - $213 M
Incredibles 2: June 15 - $608 M
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom: June 22 - $417 M
Ant Man & The Wasp: July 6 - $216 M

That's $2.45 B in US Box Office revenue. They couldn't all make $500 M based on that, but when they all need to make at least that to cover the budget, well, some are not going to make it.

That's a crowded schedule and things get squeezed out. Ant-Man and Solo were the losers. You can't go by worldwide totals for this because movies don't release in all regions at the same time, so the wallet-share can be spread out. Looking at the above, Solo was pretty close to Ant-Man in the US. Star Wars does have trouble with International appeal. I totally get it - Solo failed, no question, but many people are making assumptions as to why without even having the facts straight. The above list is facts (source: Box Office Mojo) - you can infer whatever conclusion you like, but there are actually a lot more factors that go into it.

None of that should have mattered when it came to Solo's box office. Every other Star Wars movie is among the top 100 adjusted for inflation domestic grossing films of all-time. The nine movies before Solo all made list. That is something only 5 of the 23 Infinity Saga movies have. Every other Star Wars Movie was box office gold regardless of the competition, economy or any other factor.

Solo about arguably the most loved character in the entire saga barely beat out Venom for a spot in the top 10 grossing films of 2018. That is a sign of a brand that has been badly damaged before the film came out.

 

[Moliphino]

Solo about arguably the most loved character in the entire saga barely beat out Venom for a spot in the top 10 grossing films of 2018. That is a sign of a brand that has been badly damaged before the film came out.

Except who actually wanted a Han Solo movie, especially with someone other than Harrison Ford playing him? I'm not even a huge Star Wars fan and I find it an odd choice.

 

[Mikey15]

Except who actually wanted a Han Solo movie, especially with someone other than Harrison Ford playing him? I'm not even a huge Star Wars fan and I find it an odd choice.

Yeah, most people I know who watch Star Wars movies but aren't big "fans" weren't really interested in someone other than Ford in the role. My wife and her sister still haven't watched it. I went opening weekend with another SW fan instead.

It's not like it's a Kenobi movie with Ewan McGregor... that'd get butts in seats.

 

[BrianL]

None of that should have mattered when it came to Solo's box office. Every other Star Wars movie is among the top 100 adjusted for inflation domestic grossing films of all-time. The nine movies before Solo all made list. That is something only 5 of the 23 Infinity Saga movies have. Every other Star Wars Movie was box office gold regardless of the competition, economy or any other factor.

Solo about arguably the most loved character in the entire saga barely beat out Venom for a spot in the top 10 grossing films of 2018. That is a sign of a brand that has been badly damaged before the film came out.

But of course it all matters. Each movie comes out in it's own time and with it's own set of circumstances. Just because previous movies performed, doesn't mean a new one is guaranteed to - we see this all the time with sequels. The movie landed as a dud - it can happen, even to Star Wars. General disinterest in the premise coupled with production troubles and a very crowded release window became a big problem for it. If Star Wars is so damaged, why is The Mandalorian so popular?

 

[SheHulk]

Yeah, most people I know who watch Star Wars movies but aren't big "fans" weren't really interested in someone other than Ford in the role. My wife and her sister still haven't watched it. I went opening weekend with another SW fan instead.

It's not like it's a Kenobi movie with Ewan McGregor... that'd get butts in seats.

It's so funny how everyone is different. I actually liked Alden Ehrenreich before he was cast as Solo and thought he'd be great. I wasn't dying for a Solo backstory (and I am old enough to have seen the originals in theaters, as a youth mind you) but I went in part because of him. Some of the backstory was cringeworthy (origin for his last name etc) but I wasn't sorry I saw it.

Meanwhile I hated the prequels so much, and even though I like Ewan McGregor I hated him as Obi-Wan, so I would probably sit that one out. Maybe I'm in the minority but really? People liked anything about the prequels enough to want to see more of young Obi-Wan?

 

[Mikey15]

It's so funny how everyone is different. I actually liked Alden Ehrenreich before he was cast as Solo and thought he'd be great. I wasn't dying for a Solo backstory (and I am old enough to have seen the originals in theaters, as a youth mind you) but I went in part because of him. Some of the backstory was cringeworthy (origin for his last name etc) but I wasn't sorry I saw it.

Meanwhile I hated the prequels so much, and even though I like Ewan McGregor I hated him as Obi-Wan, so I would probably sit that one out. Maybe I'm in the minority but really? People liked anything about the prequels enough to want to see more of young Obi-Wan?

Don't get me wrong, I loved Solo and I'm glad they made it (though some bits cringeworthy, like you say). I also dislike the prequels generally, but McGregor as Obi-Wan and Neeson as Qui-Gon were among the highlights that make a rewatch not bad as long as you're not expecting to suddenly love the movie. I'd add Jackson as Windu and Smitts as Organa too, for the little screen time they did get. It's too bad Lucas couldn't write good dialogue for those three films.

 

[BrianL]

It's so funny how everyone is different. I actually liked Alden Ehrenreich before he was cast as Solo and thought he'd be great. I wasn't dying for a Solo backstory (and I am old enough to have seen the originals in theaters, as a youth mind you) but I went in part because of him. Some of the backstory was cringeworthy (origin for his last name etc) but I wasn't sorry I saw it.

Meanwhile I hated the prequels so much, and even though I like Ewan McGregor I hated him as Obi-Wan, so I would probably sit that one out. Maybe I'm in the minority but really? People liked anything about the prequels enough to want to see more of young Obi-Wan?

Well, I LOVE the Prequels and always have - and no I was not a kid when they came out. I unapologetically love them. The Phantom Menace is actually my favorite Star Wars movie and I think that the Prequels as a whole narrative are better than the OT. I am all for Ewan coming back as Obi Wan and can't wait for the show!

 

[Brianstl]

But of course it all matters. Each movie comes out in it's own time and with it's own set of circumstances. Just because previous movies performed, doesn't mean a new one is guaranteed to - we see this all the time with sequels. The movie landed as a dud - it can happen, even to Star Wars. General disinterest in the premise coupled with production troubles and a very crowded release window became a big problem for it. If Star Wars is so damaged, why is The Mandalorian so popular?

In the six months leading up to Attack of the Clones we had Monsters, Inc., Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, The Fellowship of the Ring and Spiderman open.

But of course it all matters. Each movie comes out in it's own time and with it's own set of circumstances. Just because previous movies performed, doesn't mean a new one is guaranteed to - we see this all the time with sequels. The movie landed as a dud - it can happen, even to Star Wars. General disinterest in the premise coupled with production troubles and a very crowded release window became a big problem for it. If Star Wars is so damaged, why is The Mandalorian so popular?

Mandalorian is popular because it is good and it feels like old Star Wars. Mando is rebuilding the Star Wars brand and that is why it is airing now to help build up Rise of Skywalker. All it takes is good word a mouth amongst most lapsed fans to bring them back in.

The biggest way you can tell the brand was damaged is to compare it's opening weekend to Rouge One.

 

[BrianL]

In the six months leading up to Attack of the Clones we had Monsters, Inc., Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, The Fellowship of the Ring and Spiderman open.


Mandalorian is popular because it is good and it feels like old Star Wars. Mando is rebuilding the Star Wars brand and that is why it is airing now to help build up Rise of Skywalker. All it takes is good word a mouth amongst most lapsed fans to bring them back in.

The biggest way you can tell the brand was damaged is to compare it's opening weekend to Rouge One.

Again, Rogue One is a different animal with a different set of circumstances. You certainly can't compare this to Attack of the Clones, which came out in a very different market with very different budgets. If anything Solo is the movie the so-called "fans" would have wanted - it's so classic and full of fan-service! I would think most fans would have wanted that.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Well, I LOVE the Prequels and always have - and no I was not a kid when they came out. I unapologetically love them. The Phantom Menace is actually my favorite Star Wars movie and I think that the Prequels as a whole narrative are better than the OT. I am all for Ewan coming back as Obi Wan and can't wait for the show!

I've been rewatching the movies in preparation for Rise of Skywalker (trying to also get in the Clone Wars and Rebels TV series) and I must say that I thougth the prequels were a lot better than the last time I saw them - not sure ifjust exceeding my low expectations or if I was just unfairly harsh on them to begin with.

I still think there is some bad acting and some scenes that drag in them. I also still have troubl edealing with how young Anakin was when he ment the not-nearly-as-young Padme and just seems awkward when they get together. Actually, watching Rebels, I think the introduciton of Anakin was more like Ezra it would have worked better

 

[Brianstl]

I've been rewatching the movies in preparation for Rise of Skywalker (trying to also get in the Clone Wars and Rebels TV series) and I must say that I thougth the prequels were a lot better than the last time I saw them - not sure ifjust exceeding my low expectations or if I was just unfairly harsh on them to begin with.

I still think there is some bad acting and some scenes that drag in them. I also still have troubl edealing with how young Anakin was when he ment the not-nearly-as-young Padme and just seems awkward when they get together. Actually, watching Rebels, I think the introduciton of Anakin was more like Ezra it would have worked better

My opinion of the prequels continues to improve, too. I always thought Revenge of the Sith was good, but I think that is even better now and I actually like the first two. I think part of the problem for the prequels is that many people had just unrealistic expectations that built up over 16 years.

I, also, really liked Rogue One the first time I saw it. The other day I watched it again on Disney+ and I liked even more than my previous viewings. It might actually be in my top 4 Star Wars movies now.

 

[Brianstl]

Well, I LOVE the Prequels and always have - and no I was not a kid when they came out. I unapologetically love them. The Phantom Menace is actually my favorite Star Wars movie and I think that the Prequels as a whole narrative are better than the OT. I am all for Ewan coming back as Obi Wan and can't wait for the show!

Ewan's Obi Wan is one of the top 3 characters in all of the Stars Wars films. I can't wait for that series to start. I am looking forward to that even more than I was looking forward to The Mandalorian.

I am, also, excited about the upcoming Cassian Andor series.

It will be interesting to see where they decide to go with the films from here. I think doing something based off the Old Republic could be really good.

 

[AvidDisReader]

The big thing in reading the posts is exactly how strong the Star Wars franchise is. Whether one has problems with a certain movie or not, every one is passionate on the Story. Just about everyone seems hopeful the final chapter will live up to the expectation. May the the force be with all of us.

 

[TwoMisfits]

As for the toys, apparently, their sales really disappointed since The Last Jedi. You can Google search and see Hasbro's troubles the last 2 years on their Star Wars lines...if I remember from one article, the expectation was $600M in sales from TLJ toys, but only $450M materialized, so that's a lot of leftover product...and I think Solo was worse...

Edit - Found the article (and it was total merchandise, so I'm assuming the toy part might have been the worst side) - "First, franchise pics that bomb don’t yield toy sales, especially in this landscape with Toys R Us out of business, a toy retailer that owned a 15% market share. Second, industry sources inform Deadline that Last Jedi missed its $600M merchandise revenue target with a $450M take. As an aside, we hear that small town exhibitors were still on the hook to paying Disney a 65% rental on Solo, but without the four-week commitment that came with Last Jedi." https://deadline.com/2018/06/shaile...y-action-point-weekend-box-office-1202401740/

 

[Mikey15]

The big thing in reading the posts is exactly how strong the Star Wars franchise is. Whether one has problems with a certain movie or not, every one is passionate on the Story. Just about everyone seems hopeful the final chapter will live up to the expectation. May the the force be with all of us.

The best part about "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." is that it infinitely lends itself to world-building for new stories and sagas. If you build a fantasy world, you can spin off it in a thousand different ways, whether that's Lucas' Star Wars, Tolkien's Middle-Earth, Rowling's Wizarding World, etc..

That's also one thing I really like about TLJ; the galaxy is far bigger than who's descended from "the Chosen One" and why I'm okay with them pitching IX as the "end of the Skywalker saga." Good! Show us broom kid. Show us the Old Republic, before Palpatine. Show us Jedi knights from ancient times. There's limitless possibilities, and we don't need to anchor it to one family. There's not a Skywalker in sight in The Mandalorian and it's one of the best iterations of Star Wars we've seen since '83.

 

[LizzyS]

Man the mental gymnastics in here to explain why no one wants toys off movies that weren’t good / characters who don’t resonate with fans is crazy.

I have many ST toys, actually.

Adults are the ones that collect action figures these days.