Spontaneity at WDW Gone

[MrInfinity]

But beyond that, if you read all of my posts, I actually specifically stated that we appreciated FP+ for our late arrival days. I also said the only reason we chose DHS the day after the run was precisely because of FP+ - that it gave us the ability to do so, and we appreciated it.

Yes, you did, I agree.

In order to know what times to book FP+ for, I needed to figure out when we'd get into the park and when we'd be leaving the park in order to know the time window I could look within. Doing this also required figuring out some transportation timing in order to answer those questions. This is not something we had to do at home last year. IN the parks, yes, but not at home. So therefore, it's more *pre*-planning than we had to do, which is all I ever said. I didn't say legacy was better for this scenario (it wouldn't have been).

Fair enough, but you would arrive and go to some attractions only to see what's available and then be stuck to coming back at that time. Now you can (don't have to) pick ahead of time. You chose to. That does not mean spontaneity is less at WDW, just that you're being less spontaneous because you have obligations, and you know you can optimize your trip if you do so.

I didn't say FP+ sucked because of it either.

Nod. I'm just commenting on this thread because ppl say "Spontaneity is gone at WDW". When I disagree that spontaneity is gone. I believe the parks are what you make of them.

Spontaneity is a personal trait. Some people are it, others are not it. If someone was not spontaneous, they probly planned as much as they could before, and now probly still do.

Here on the Dis we will see more of the inherent planners. That's a trait of the people, not the park.

 

[Laketravis]

Common sense prevails guys. You show up at rope drop, get a few rides via FP+, a few more via SDFP, and you have no trouble getting a family onto a very good number of rides. And I did all this not having read Mesaboy's thread!

This was precisely the effect Disney was going for. A family can have a really good time doing a moderate amount...

Apparently you missed both of these threads posted just today describing recent experiences? Utilizing your loose convention in terms of what constitutes stats, these represent "all" of the recent experiences:

Infrequent poster here. This is my experience:

In the late 90's/early 2000's I visited WDW at least once each year and sometimes twice. I went to WDW as often as my yearly bonus would allow. Then, due to layoffs and underemployment, I didn't go to WDW for 10 years.

Fast forward to 2013. The job market (and my salary) was improving. I went to WDW in October and really enjoyed using a MB instead of getting FP tickets. I'm a spur-of-the-moment touring person. I decided which park I was going to when I woke up that day and I don't use PS for restaurants. When I'm hungry, I find someplace and eat. Doesn't have to be fancy. I chose my FPs on the bus ride to the park. When all my FP's had been used, I used the single-rider line with no issues. Everything was uber-convenient and I rejoiced in the new technology!

Then my October 2014 trip came around and my experience was markedly different. I couldn't get the FPs I wanted even a day or two ahead of time. Sometimes I'd only use the first FP and then, while having to wait an hour or two for the next FP time to open, I'd get in line on another ride. Wait times were 30 minutes or more in SB lines and even the single rider lines were long. I remember waiting for over an hour for Splash Mountain and wondering the entire time why I was wasting my time standing in line when I could be on a bus back to my resort and get in the pool (it was very hot on my trip).

Most of the time I'd only use one or two of my FP+ selections and then leave without cancelling the third. Too much trouble.

Bottom line: I won't be going back to WDW every year and maybe not even every other year. It's just too much money to spend for the privilege of waiting in line for hours on end in the heat when I could be spending less money at a plush resort on the shore of Lake Michigan or in the Florida Keys for my vacation. Maybe I'll make Disney a occasional journey and go every fifth year or so.

I used to love planning my trips, obsessing over the weather, what I'd be doing, where I'd be staying, how much fun it was going to be! But now I feel like I've now outgrown it; something I NEVER felt when I was going all the time only 10 years ago.

While the parks may be packed and the hotels fully booked right now, I'm predicting that this misstep will be only a short-term gain for Disney. Sure, they may make a pile of money on it for three or five years, but it'll be at the expense of the repeat business that always carried WDW through the tough economic times. I'm predicting that as others have the same experience I had, that return rate is going to go down and Disney will have to spend a lot more money trying to lure people back into the habit of making WDW a priority vacation choice.

Bottom line: I still love all things Disney and I still love WDW. But I'm no longer as excited and eager to plan a trip as I used to be. Recent past experience has told me that my ROI just isn't as good as it used to be. While I now have the money to go to WDW every year, I simply don't have the time (or the desire) to stand for hours on line in the hot sun waiting for the few leftover choices of experiences available because everyone else took the time slots for those experiences three or six months ago.

My October 2014 vacation was nice, but it wasn't worth the money I spent and I left feeling cheated. In the future, annual WDW vacations will be getting a 'Fast Pass' from me.

I just got back yesterday, we spent 14 nights at WDW and we felt like you feel before we went. We usually get up and pick a park for the day and then change parks if and when we want too. With the FP+ that's gone you do have to pick a park if you want to use FP's for any of the major rides because they will be gone when you get to the park. We were lucky that it was slow at WDW for the most part so we had 10-20 minute waits on most rides, 7DMT, TSMM, Soarin, TT would be the long lines usually a hour+. The FP+ destroys Epcot in my opinion since you can get one or the other for Soarin/TT and then after you use your 3 FP's you try to get a FP for the one you didn't go on and its either out of FP's or a FP for 8pm or later that night.

The Magic bands worked better then I thought they would with the FP+ but if it was a busy time of year I would hate them, you would be waiting in long lines all day because parks do run out of FP's. We use to do more with the old FP system and before there were any FP's. WDW is not like it was when we took our first trip in 92 that's for sure.

 

[JimmyV]

Fine, but your arguments will continue to be flawed then.

Not flawed at all. Real world experience.

Pls don't quote stats unless you link to the stat. This is probly an old one, cuz they have recently said numbers MUCH higher.

"Walt Disney Co.'s experiment in payment-capable wearables can probably be declared a success, with the company reporting that about half of Walt Disney World guests sport MagicBands." http://www.paymentssource.com/news/...by-half-of-disney-world-guests-3018743-1.html "About half" connotes less than half. Otherwise they would have reported "half" or "more than half".

The most popular thread on a board that only represents less than 1% of actual Disney guests.

And this small percentage are among the most savvy Disney guests. If the folks on the Board need help, extrapolate that to the other 99%.

At least I'm not wrong. I realize I'm a little different from the norm.

These two sentences are at odds. You admit that you are atypical in the way you approach a Disney vacation, subordinating rides to some ethereal vacation goal. And then you suggest that I am wrong for saying that most guests do not approach Disney they way you do. I am not wrong.

So you like the rides. More than most people even. Great.

Not more. I am more typical than you. That makes neither of us wrong.

This thread is about the need for (and the benefits of) pre-planning. If you are going to argue that none of this matters, then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Fair enough, but you would arrive and go to some attractions only to see what's available and then be stuck to coming back at that time.

In 2013 we did not have to go to the attraction to see what the FP return time was. That information was available in multiple apps. We'd take a look at that info, then decide where to head. Yes, the time might be slightly different by the time we got to the ride, but not by much. We'd then tour whatever else was in the immediate vicinity of the ride while we waited for the FP window to open. WE didn't backtrack much at all.

We did backtrack a LOT on this trip because of our FP+ reservations. I tried changing them around in the parks to minimizethe backtracking after DH got blisters from running in the rain the night before, but there was no availability to do that with the rides we had booked. I freely admit this was our fault in not thinking about that more when we were booking, and that will be remedied in future trips.

Now you can (don't have to) pick ahead of time. You chose to. That does not mean spontaneity is less at WDW, just that you're being less spontaneous because you have obligations, and you know you can optimize your trip if you do so.

Nod. I'm just commenting on this thread because ppl say "Spontaneity is gone at WDW". When I disagree that spontaneity is gone. I believe the parks are what you make of them.

Spontaneity is a personal trait. Some people are it, others are not it. If someone was not spontaneous, they probly planned as much as they could before, and now probly still do.

Here on the Dis we will see more of the inherent planners. That's a trait of the people, not the park

Not once in this thread have I said "spontaneity is less." I actually also said once or twice that there is still spontaneity to be had, especially in MK. My original post was to someone who said "all there is to it is booking a,b,c". I merely responded showing how, for US, there was more questions we had to answer in order to book those 3 rides than just saying "hey, we want to ride these 3 things, lets book times".

I understand that that is the OP's contention, but those words are not words I said at all.

 

[MrInfinity]

Apparently you missed both of these threads posted just today describing recent experiences? Utilizing your loose convention in terms of what constitutes stats, these represent "all" of the recent experiences:

Travis, how many times does this point need to be made. Hanging out on a complaint board you're going to see the complaints. Quoting complaints on a complaint board does not mean that's the general experience. It is only representative of a sliver of guests who felt compelled to come tell their story, which will by definition be mostly those who had a bad time.

No doubt some guests will not have a great time, including those two posts.

No doubt you can come home from a WDW trip and feel no more rested than before you went. I'd say it's more hectic than being at home! Our kids stay up later, they get exhausted, they get cranky, we have our share of battles, and our share of fun, and in the end it's long days of ultra-family-time for us. It's not resting or relaxing. If someone wants that in a vacation, there are better places to go. Or, you can do Disney but do less.

It is an oxymoron to say...

"I want a relaxing trip"...
but then also...
"I want to do everything with minimal waits"

You can't do both. Either you take it easy and you spend time at the pool, and you ride what you get on, (3 easy via FP+) and you go do other stuff, or, you set out on a mission to beat the crowds, be aggressive at Rope Drop, be the first to the kiosks after your first 3, and you constantly run to stay ahead of the herd. Either plan is fine. It's just the former will not get you on as much, but the latter will feel hectic.

In between those two extremes, there is an entire spectrum of choices. The more relaxed you are, the less you'll get on. The more focused you are, the more you'll get on. None of this has changed.

 

[MrInfinity]

"Walt Disney Co.'s experiment in payment-capable wearables can probably be declared a success, with the company reporting that about half of Walt Disney World guests sport MagicBands." http://www.paymentssource.com/news/...by-half-of-disney-world-guests-3018743-1.html "About half" connotes less than half. Otherwise they would have reported "half" or "more than half".

Your stats are out of date, that's from August. It's much higher now. Pull up my past posts on Disney's Dec announcements and you'll see.

 

[MrInfinity]

Not once in this thread have I said "spontaneity is less." I actually also said once or twice that there is still spontaneity to be had, especially in MK. My original post was to someone who said "all there is to it is booking a,b,c". I merely responded showing how, for US, there was more questions we had to answer in order to book those 3 rides than just saying "hey, we want to ride these 3 things, lets book times".

I understand that that is the OP's contention, but those words are not words I said at all.

I understand! I'm just chiming in on the subject of the thread.

And yes the flow of the FPs is something you don't learn out here. Mesaboy or wait time apps would point you to book (pre-SDMT) Space, Splash, and Peter Pan... but those rides take you clear across the park and back. I think one reason I do so well is by intuitive planning... sometimes you take the Speedway FP+ because you took Space Mountain. And the time (and crankiness) you save by your kids not having to cross the park outweighs the benefit from optimizing your wait times. So there's more to picking a good FP+ plan than by blindly following the numbers.

FP+ really allows us to break the park down into regions and spend more time enjoying a region, and less time walking between regions. This allows for more freedom and feeling of spontaneity because you have time to kill in one region without feeling you have to run to another region. Good planning of FP+'s makes for more leisure time, not the other way around, IMO.

By knowing that you have certain rides locked in, it frees you up to do other things spontaneously. It works for us!

The one time we felt rushed on our last trip was in AK...and we were doing Wilderness Quests over by the Conservation Station, and we had to double-time it back to the train to make a lunch ADR. This has nothing to do w FP+ of course, but just reservations in general, and not knowing to allow so much time in that corner.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Your stats are out of date, that's from August. It's much higher now. Pull up my past posts on Disney's Dec announcements and you'll see.

Link to the thread? Tried to find it, but 2 year old needs attention and wasn't an easy find. The only one I saw was the "Official Word on the Success of MM+" thread from a week ago...where the first post also cited stats from August 2014.

 

[wisblue]

Doesn't the whole phenomenon of the "Throwaway Room" support the position that people who are restricted to a 30 day window are not getting what they want? Or is the Throwaway Room idea just born of irrational fear?


Are you suggesting that these attractions are routinely available the day of, or a few days before? And if so, at what "Crowd Level" does this cease to be the case?

The phenomenon of the throwaway room started before FP+ was even fully implemented so I don't think it proves anything about what is or isn't available 30 days out. I wouldn't have used the words "irrational fear", but since you chose them maybe that is a good description. I just think it's hilarious the lengths to which people will go to get a FP.

As for crowd levels, I described my experience in November in the trip report linked above in this thread and those were crowd level 5-6 days. The experience was the same in August when we were there helping our daughter move out, and the crowd levels then were more like 8's.

Of course availability is going to be tighter on the crowd level 9 and 10 days, just like it always was for paper FP. But, on the issue of how much more preplanning I do because of FP+, my only first hand experience was during our Christmas visit last year. For that trip, I had a rough idea in my head about what parks we were going to go to each day, something that I always have done for our trips. And, because I usually formulate those plans while taking my daily walks, they aren't really taking any time.

On that trip we had an arrival day (getting to the resort around 5 PM) and four full park days, the last being New Year's Eve Day. As usual we intended to hit parks early, including AM EMH, take a break when crowds were at their peak, and then visit a different park in the late afternoon or evening. With the general plan of which parks we were going to each day, it wasn't hard to pick 3 attractions to use in the evening. So, when my 60 day window opened, I scheduled those 3 attractions in the 5-6,6-7, 7-8 slots (earlier for DAK) taking about 5 minutes or less to schedule each day. So, in a grand total of less than 30 minutes of additional effort, I had FPs for 15 headliner attractions at times at which I was 100% certain that standby lines would be longer than we would want to wait and paper FPs would not have been available.

So, yes, with FP+ I did 30 minutes more preplanning that I would have done without it. But, to me, it was totally worth it, and made the trip that much more enjoyable.

 

[GaSleepingBeautyFan]

It felt like spontaneity was gone when I was doing my planning for my quick long weekend trip last weekend.

But once I got there it wasn't so bad.

I got a last minute walk up reservation at Beaches and Cream for lunch, walked into the Flying Fish and ate at the counter (Yum!), changed my last day plans from the Magic Kingdom to Animal Kingdom at 1am the night before and was able to book FP+ for KS, Dinosaur, Everest and got a last minute TS ressie for Yak N Yeti TS.

The parks felt busy too - especially in the evenings when Pop Warner kids were in the parks. I think it all turned out pretty well.

 

[wisblue]

BTW, in addition to my personal observations and following these boards, my understanding about FP availability is affected by the site that people have linked from time to time that charts FP availability for different things for a party of 4 for the next 60 days. The only rides that site followed were 7DMT and TSMM because they said everything else was generally available same day.

Does anyone have the link to that site handy to see what it says about the upcoming Christmas holiday?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What I said is that there was more PRE-planning. I even went so far as to explain that it took planning we would normally do in the parks and moved it to earlier, and that it WASN'T "more overall planning" but that it was "more PRE-planning".

By taking planning you used to do in the parks and moving it to before your arrival, you are - in fact - increasing your PRE-planning, *without* increasing your overall planning. This is *all* that I have said.

Pretty sure that saying the above is also, in fact, recognizing that "doing this earlier is not tantamount to increased effort."

I do appreciate the clarification that parts of the end of your post were not directed at me, but the above quote did still seem directed at our conversation. I don't want you to think I ignored or didn't see your clarifications, though.

I honestly ask the question - why is it somehow bad to say that FP+ increased my pre-planning (again, not overall planning, but pre-arrival planning). Disney has specifically said that was their goal - to get people to plan ahead more, to lock them in. Why is saying that that is exactly what happened bad? Why is there a need to "successfully attribute" the experience to FP+, when Disney designed FP+ with that exact goal in mind? My posts in this thread were never meant as a condemnation of FP+ (or acclamation of it either). Just as a neutral report of what our experience was with the pre-planning aspect.

None of my post was directed at you actually. The points where I specifically stated that were so that those specific points due to their nature would not be misconstrued as targeted to you.

From this point forward, please know that they are not unless I am responding to you directly-- since you seem to believe that my posts that are not in direct response to you are aimed at you--they are not about you.

That said--please refer to my ORIGINAL response to where I CLEARLY acknowledged your experience was yours while also discussing the GENERAL as in the average participants need to plan for marathon weekend.

There is no need to do anything. But MY OPINION is and will always be that marathon weekend has its own special pre-planning needs whether or not you choose to agree. If you can show up and run 13.1 miles with NO PRE-PLaNNiNG, more power to you. I find that highly unusual. YMMV--FYI a general anyone's mileage may vary (literally and figuratively).

I did LESS pre-planning (it seems) for a week long vacation for 6 people that was with 2 other families we actively hung out with and an additional 4 others than it seems you did for one half marathon where the jist if your planning was a properly timed FP for TSM. I don't know for sure, but since the emphasis was on "more", difficult to say because you haven't said much.

But you WERE acknowledged that this situation did occur for you by me. You just failed to acknowledge that because you wanted to take it personally a general statement I made. I cannot help your misinterpretation.

Apparently it is bad to say one takes less time planning. But it doesn't tamke it any less of a reality for many families.

 

[Angel Ariel]

None of my post was directed at you actually. The points where I specifically stated that were so that those specific points due to their nature would not be misconstrued as targeted to you.

From this point forward, please know that they are not unless I am responding to you directly-- since you seem to believe that my posts that are not in direct response to you are aimed at you--they are not about you.

Fair enough.

That said--please refer to my ORIGINAL response to where I CLEARLY acknowledged your experience was yours while also discussing the GENERAL as in the average participants need to plan for marathon weekend.

I did read that response. I also read the one following that where you claimed that my experience could not be "successfully attributed to FP+.". That was very much directed specifically at me, and not a generality.

There is no need to do anything. But MY OPINION is and will always be that marathon weekend has its own special pre-planning needs whether or not you choose to agree. If you can show up and run 13.1 miles with NO PRE-PLaNNiNG, more power to you. I find that highly unusual. YMMV--FYI a general anyone's mileage may vary (literally and figuratively).

Our mileage does vary. I never said that runDisney events *in general* don't require special pre-planning. Just that they did not *for us*. In our exchange, that did not seem to be acceptable to you, as you continually want to dismiss *our* experience as due to the run.

Yes, DH actually did show up and run 13.1 miles without pre-planning. Personally, I think he's nuts. I read what other people do to train for those distances, and he doesn't do that. Really, not at all. Like I said - he's nuts, and I try to convince him to really train. But it is what it is.

I did LESS pre-planning (it seems) for a week long vacation for 6 people that was with 2 other families we actively hung out with and an additional 4 others than it seems you did for one half marathon where the jist if your planning was a properly timed FP for TSM. I don't know for sure, but since the emphasis was on "more", difficult to say because you haven't said much.

There was more to it than a properly times FP for TSMM, and honestly your complete dismissal of what I have said (because, yes, I have actually said quite a lot about it), just indicates to me that you aren't interested in truly listening to what our experience was.

Apparently it is bad to say one takes less time planning. But it doesn't tamke it any less of a reality for many families.

I never said anything negative about you taking less time to plan. I never dismissed your experience with planning with FP+ as you did mine when you said it could not be "successfully attributed" to FP+. I have not doubted or questioned one thing you've said about your experience, as you have continually done about mine. One instance of recognizing that it was "my experience" doesn't negate all the other dismissals.

 

[Laz]

I just got back yesterday, we spent 14 nights at WDW and we felt like you feel before we went. We usually get up and pick a park for the day and then change parks if and when we want too. With the FP+ that's gone you do have to pick a park if you want to use FP's for any of the major rides because they will be gone when you get to the park. We were lucky that it was slow at WDW for the most part so we had 10-20 minute waits on most rides, 7DMT, TSMM, Soarin, TT would be the long lines usually a hour+. The FP+ destroys Epcot in my opinion since you can get one or the other for Soarin/TT and then after you use your 3 FP's you try to get a FP for the one you didn't go on and its either out of FP's or a FP for 8pm or later that night.

The Magic bands worked better then I thought they would with the FP+ but if it was a busy time of year I would hate them, you would be waiting in long lines all day because parks do run out of FP's. We use to do more with the old FP system and before there were any FP's. WDW is not like it was when we took our first trip in 92 that's for sure.

I have not been to WDW since FP+ was installed. When my family and I did go, it was usually during the summer months. When we saw SB wait times of 60-90 minutes for any major attraction, we felt that was an easy wait and hopped in the line. We would take advantage of as many EE and EMHs we could, and leave during the busiest times of the day. For us, anything over 2 hours would rule out the ride at that time. We would reschedule it for an EE or EMH. Is it just me, or is there a different perception today of what "too long" a line is? Am I under the wrong assumptions about incredibly long lines for all rides at all times?

 

[ncdj2013]

I see advantages and disadvantages to both FP- and FP+. Personally I like FP+ better because I like knowing ahead of time where I need to be when and it also saves me some walking. I'm just glad there is some sort of FP system in place. I remember my first trip there was no sort of FP and all I remember about that trip is standing in line.

 

[MrInfinity]

And, because I usually formulate those plans while taking my daily walks, they aren't really taking any time.

Yes! For a "planner", it's on our mind all the time. You thought on walks, I did a lot of thinking about it while waiting in line for this or that, waiting for a seat at a table, at the doctors office, for one of my kids at an activity, or whatever.

I'd just pull up my app at times when I'd otherwise do something like read my email, or play some online games or other things. I don't look at that as negative "have to plan" time... rather, just things I'm doing cuz I'm free and the app is right there beckoning me to play with it and... it's fun!

If it wasn't fun, I wouldn't do it. End of story. I would do like most other guests, and just pick 3 things... like...

So, when my 60 day window opened, I scheduled those 3 attractions in the 5-6,6-7, 7-8 slots (earlier for DAK) taking about 5 minutes or less to schedule each day. So, in a grand total of less than 30 minutes of additional effort, I had FPs for 15 headliner attractions at times at which I was 100% certain that standby lines would be longer than we would want to wait and paper FPs would not have been available.

Yep. That's all you have to do. Easy, fast, effective. You can spend more time than that getting on hold on one phone call to Disney. 30 minutes spent ahead of time to have 15 headliners locked in as guaranteed waitless ride opportunities is awesome! (which you are under no obligation to go to if you are spontaneously doing something else).

 

[larryz]

It's one thing to be "enticed" into a pattern of behavior.

It's something else entirely to be "managed."

WDW has moved from "enticing" with FPs to "managing" with MBs and FP+s.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Doesn't the whole phenomenon of the "Throwaway Room" support the position that people who are restricted to a 30 day window are not getting what they want? Or is the Throwaway Room idea just born of irrational fear?


Are you suggesting that these attractions are routinely available the day of, or a few days before? And if so, at what "Crowd Level" does this cease to be the case?

I'm on board with irrational fear. Fed by the -- 60 days or bust folks. They are booking to capture that window. So rides not being available a day or two before has no relevance as off site guests can book. (Just yesterday, I could book top attractions with a wide variety of times on Christmas Day--except mine train and Anna and Elsa.)

I'm not spending ALL that money to just "guarantee" the all of two fast passes that may help.

Why spend put to $100 per night to just say you could get a 7 dwarves FP?
(Prices vary but at peak times the cheapest campsite on a weekend after taxes is $100+)

On what planet is that ever a rational decision?

Because even at a decent take home wage of $20 an hour, that is 5 hours of labor at your day job for a pass to avoid a 45-90 minute standby wait.

Now, people can do what they please with their money. But that is a huge amount of money to pay. And let's face it, that seems to be the only ride that "requires" 60+ days to get. Anna and Elsa is hard to get anyway due to limited capacity, so even on site guests aren't really guaranteed.

So yes, this is indeed an irrational reaction. To claim it is rational is laughable.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

more complete garbage .. Your on a roll

To be be complete garbage, a statement has to be false 100% of the time. Many do find the ap extremely easy to use which would negate your claim that it the statement you quoted is complete garbage. It is not possible for it to be.

You are on a fallacy roll.

 

[HulkBuster]

you showd me .. Iam cleerly out of my leegue. what fun you are i don't know to be amazed or sadenned by how literl some things are taken.