Spoke to principal- I'm not a happy camper-- update post 155

[powellrj]

I hear this over and over and over on the DIS and i reallycan not believe that families truely can't schedule a vacation when your kids are ou t of school. I think it is simply an excuse to ge when you want to

And the outrage against schools and the attitude dominating posters that the Mom is right and the schools are always wrong is mind boggling

It can be true. If you work for a company that has a seniority vacation policy and you are the low man it can be hard to get a vacation during school vacations. We will never be able to vacation during spring break, fall break or Christmas break because DH is low on the seniority list. Many people have been there for over 30 years and have wives that are teachers so they will always get vacations over DH. He was there several years before he could take a summer week off and even then it had to be really early or late in the summer.

You just learn to be creative!

 

[eliza61]

II really think that the principal is throwing you a smokescreen. With these new tests the pressure is on for them to show results and I think it is pissing off a lot of educators. I am in no way saying there aren't amazing teachers and educators out there-but we all know there are a lot of teachers who are putting in their 20-I know, I am going to school to be a teacher and I meet a lot of people who are merely punching a clock. AND I know there are a tons of teachers fighting an uphill battle with apathetic parents who take little responsibility in their childs' education as well.

But I can say from personal experience - Standardized tests really only tell if you are good at test taking-I should know -failed one only to take a jr. mensa test the next week and be accepted at 10 yrs old-and then was placed in the TAG(talented and gifted) in my school. So you had a kid who, according to the test, should be failing(I was a straight A student) and who needed help(which I did not).

One more point I have to make as a mother. Last year when they "discovered" my daughter was 2 grades ahead in both reading and math-I had to push for her to be given more challenging work in school-and do you know what I was told? It would be unfair to the rest of the class to take the time to give your daughter special attention. This was by the principal. So I spoke directly to her amazing teacher and explained that although I work with her at home on more challenging assignments, I was worried about her class time. She sat down with me and worked out a schedule where my daughter was given higher level math and reading assignments to work on in class. So where was all that test magic then???

Well to all this I say -give the OP a break and stop attacking her. If she feels she is doing the right thing for her child ans her family-NO ONE has the right to question her. Forget the money, forget the test-childhood is precious and to sacrifice that time together is silly. I know I am gonna get FLAMED for that one-but OH well-it won't be the 1st OR last time either

Lisa,
Your absolutely right except you left out one part. I too hate standardized test and NCLB but the op is not fighting about that. The op is fighting over a trip to DISNEYWORLD The only problem she has with the test is that it is interfering with her vacation. I don't think we're attacking her but no way am I going to agree with some of the sugggestions she's gotten. Lying to the administration, pulling her kid out of the school and than re-registering him etc, etc. All to go on a 2 week vacation?

You're right it's her family and we all have to do what we feel is best for our kids but don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rainwater. This is not about screwed up school systems, standarized test, or tyranical school boards. This is about a vacation to Disneyworld.

Personally, I wish more people would get this outraged over the school systems in America, if they were as passionate about that as they are about a trip to the mouse we propably could get real change effected.

 

[adoptionmomma4]

yes I read her posts but the point is that teachers are there to help and we really don't care for being called stupid which is what is happening here. Saying that what we do in the classroom has no value is a slap in the face and frankly so is saying that homescholing is always a better option. It is not the best plan for every child and you are not better than everyone else b/c you do it. I have seen too many socially and emotionally stunted teenagers with woefully inadequate acedimic skills who are the product of homeschool to ever be convinced that is is the best choice for every child. I really see it as just an excuse to feel superior to all the other parents b/c you home school. That is the attitude I get from all the parents I know who homeschool. I really get sick of the whole "I'm better than you and you really should be doing this for your kids" routine. I was the product of public schools and I did just fine thank you. My parents had to work, and certianly couldn't afford private school. I went to college on a full academic scholarship and graduated with honors. None of the over 400 homeschool kids from our district did that the year I graduated. The quality of education in all public schools is not substandard. I give my chemistry and physics students learning opportunities that are simply not possible with home school. They get hands on experience with technology that is not accessible to homeschoolers or is prohibitively expensive. I also make it my goal before they leave me to teach them to really think and problem solve, not just regurgitate answers.

Why did a thread about taking a child out of school for two weeks turn into a homeschool vs. public school debate?

My kids are homeschooled. I find your comments about homeschooled parents, children and the education they receive or provide at home rude and unnecessary. There are MANY opportunities for homeschoolers now than ever before. Home educated children are thriving and learning things that are not available to them in a traditional school setting. They are out testing public and private school students. They are getting full academic scholarships to college. They are going to Ivy League schools. Colleges are now
recruiting homeschoolers. It may not be better for every child, but please do not lump all of us in this stereotype you have. My kids are learning far more subject wise than they ever did in school. They also have the opportunity to learn things at home that they can not learn in school due to budget cuts (unless we pass the almost yearly levy). We visit museums, take art classes, music lessons, dance, play competitive sports, take classes at out local homeschool co-op taught by parents who are former teachers, mathematicians and some who are "unqualified" stay home moms who research and learn everything possible about a subject to teach it to our children. In fact my kids will spend tomorrow listening to Senator McCain speak in our state. They will also hear Senator Obama when he is here. What better way to learn about the upcoming election than to see it first hand. Sure we will have books to read and projects to complete to get the information. But hearing it first hand will make a much more lasting impression on them.

We are simply doing what is best for our children. Just like you feel you are doing for your students. Give us the benefit of the doubt. I do not feel superior. In fact I usually hide the fact that we homeschool so people do not stick an unwanted label on us. This is just all so upsetting to me. I honestly do not know one homeschool parent whom homeschools because it is the easy thing to do. We all want what is best for our children and feel that we are making the right choice for our children! Please extend the same courtesy you are asking us to give teachers. Homeschoolers are fighting a constant battle to prove we are “worthy” of educating out own children. Just as you are fighting to prove you are doing what you feel is best for your students. The system is flawed and I applaud you for working so hard. I just wish we could get the same respect.

 

[fletchers5]

Wow people. Take a chill.

The OP stated that she went to the principal LAST MAY asking about taking vacation this Sept. She was told it was OK. So she made the plans

Now there is a new principal and now it is an issue. I would also be upset.


Take your family to Disney. ENJOY. Everthing will work out.

 

[ilisao]

Why did a thread about taking a child out of school for two weeks turn into a homeschool vs. public school debate?

We visit museums, take art classes, music lessons, dance, play competitive sports, take classes at out local homeschool co-op taught by parents who are former teachers, mathematicians and some who are "unqualified" stay home moms who research and learn everything possible about a subject to teach it to our children. In fact my kids will spend tomorrow listening to Senator McCain speak in our state. They will also hear Senator Obama when he is here. What better way to learn about the upcoming election than to see it first hand. Sure we will have books to read and projects to complete to get the information. But hearing it first hand will make a much more lasting impression on them.
.

You do know those opportunities are available to kids in the public school system? They aren't exclusively the domain of homeschooled children. Many public school kids take art classes, visit museums, engage in politics first-hand, etc. etc. etc. Heck, I have an M.A. in Political Science and lobbied Capitol Hill, so we discuss politics daily in our house. My public school educated kids have traveled, play competitive sports, visited museums, visited the West Wing of the White House and have met President Bush (at least my daughter did), and so much more. While I'm sure your experiences have certainly been enriching for your family and rightfully so, your homeschool experiences aren't that unique.

 

[SnowWhite607]

I believe education is the most important thing in life, but education is not limited to the classroom and testing is not education...A child is not being educated during standardized testing.

What do honesty, integrity and responsibility have to do with not going on vacation?

I dont think they have anything to do with going on vacation, just that OP would be lying essentially, telling the school that she was exploring homeschooling opportunities just to get free dining. The child would know she lied....not such a great example to set for a child, IMO.

Another teacher/mommy here. NEVER would I miss school and take my child out to vacation anywhere. I feel that as a teacher I have a responsibility to my students and their parents to be there if at all humanly possible. Vice versa, I think that if my DDs teacher can get up every morning and come to school, prepare lessons and deal with the general school "stuff" daily, I can do my part by having DD attend school regularly and punctually and not decide to go on vacation in the middle of the year. We vacation during summers and holidays.

 

[SnowWhite607]

Yes I am.

This is no different then the duping and fleecing of American taxpayers by school boards and teachers unions every year.

So because someone else acts the wrong way, that means you can too?? Nice attitude.

 

[SnowWhite607]

It's really not about the standardized test. If what every one is saying about learning occurs outside of the classroom. How about starting by teaching our kids that they don't lie & cheat to get their own way. How about teaching them that some times responsibilities (school, work) comes first. or that we accept the responsibility of our actions, if you cut school you will flunk or that some times we have to follow rules. If missing standardized test doesn't jeopardize your education, then missing or postponing Disneyworld vacation will not emotionally scar a child either.
How about we all start arbitarily breaking rules that we think don't effect us. Heck why should I have to take the SAT's or better yet I shouldn't have to take my state boards, I did my time in med school....

To all the teachers, God bless ya!! We are so screwed up in our priorities.

I agree....Oksy so he misses the test and can probably make it up..BUT if the test only takes 8 hours or so, that still leaves about 62 hours (assuming a 7 hr school day) in the 2 week period for instruction that the child is missing!!! I know that sometimes I teach something in the clssroom that cant be taught by a worksheet that I give mommy to take to Disney with her. I would hate to know that my child missed 62 hours of instructional time! I would feel like I failed her as a parent and her advocate.

 

[Nancyg56]

I have no idea about missing a test. But many years ago we were on a Make a Wish trip for my daughter. She had two older brothers. They were in 8th and 10th grade I believe. We took them all out of school. At conferences that fall, I was told not to take the oldest out of school, because he would miss to much. My response was, his sister may not be here next year and the week we spend as a family is mush more important then any school work he would miss. That pretty much shut her up. We took the trip, had a great time. Daughter has done great, is now married and has 2 children. Our middle son was killed in a car accident at the age of 16. That was truly the last family vacation we ever took. Go, have fun, and don't worry about testing. If they want it done bad enough, they will find a way to get it done.

I am so sorry for your loss and know that you treasure that trip above any missed lessons. I would as well. Your family's circumstance is not the same as this trip. One trip for pure pleasure, missing tests that one may or may not agree with but are administered just the same, is not the same as a special family time for a very sick little girl.

In my opinion, this is what this discussion boils down to: If you want to send your child to a public school, play by the rules. If you're so adamently against standardized testing and policies for unexcused absences, find an alternative private school or homeschool your child. It's that simple.

I agree.

Look, no one from the school is going to come and confiscate this family's park tickets. In fact, it's been stated that they're perfectly welcome to take off for 2 weeks--with the full knowledge that the OP's son will then be required to attend Summer school.

If the vacation is truly important, then take it. But also be prepared for the consequences that accompany that decision.

That's true responsibility.

The decision is the OP's to make but the consequence is her son's. I am not opposed to taking kids out of school for a vacation, we have done that as well. I would never take a kid out the first two weeks of school nor would I allow my child to miss testing knowing that summer school would be the result.

That consequence however was not on the table when the OP first booked the vacation, had it been then I would agree! I see this as an inflexible principal who is trying to prove a point.

I see this as a principal who is not willing to circumvent the rules for one child. People are asking what would happen if the child was sick. I have no idea but I do know that there is a vast divide between a sick child missing school and a child whose parents choose to remove him from school for a pleasure trip. One has no choice the other has chosen their course.

This discussion is weird to me. I don't like the standardized tests and really don't think they are helpful in the long run but I am a firm believer that if you choose the package you choose to accept the rules. I feel badly that the OP was led to believe that missing the tests would have no consequence but the reality now is that there are consequences. The new principal is not willing to pay them and I can respect that. I would not jeopardize my position or that of my schools in order to accommodate a vacation. In the end the OP can decide which direction is in the best interest of her family.

 

[adoptionmomma4]

You do know those opportunities are available to kids in the public school system? They aren't exclusively the domain of homeschooled children. Many public school kids take art classes, visit museums, engage in politics first-hand, etc. etc. etc. Heck, I have an M.A. in Political Science and lobbied Capitol Hill, so we discuss politics daily in our house. My public school educated kids have traveled, play competitive sports, visited museums, visited the West Wing of the White House and have met President Bush (at least my daughter did), and so much more. While I'm sure your experiences have certainly been enriching for your family and rightfully so, your homeschool experiences aren't that unique.

I am not saying these things are not available to public school children. I was a public schooled child and my children spent may years in public school. I am just trying to rebuke the things the PP said about homeschool education being sub-par and that homeschooling produces "socially and emotionally stunted teenagers with woefully inadequate academic skills". Those skills are not unique to homeschoolers. Many public schooled kids are "socially and emotionally stunted teenagers with woefully inadequate academic skills."

I am not insinuating that our homeschool experiences are unique to only us. I am just defending my choice as much as the PP is defending the public school. We do not sit around in our pajamas, watching tv and not learning. Just as I am sure her class and your children’s teachers are not letting students sit in class and do nothing.

There is no right or wrong option in the public school vs. homeschool debate. Do what is right for YOUR child and let me do what is right for mine. If you don't want a homeschooling mom to bash public school teachers extend us the same courtesy and don't bash us either.

I have to let this go now. My students are up and ready to learn

 

[letthewookiewin]

Lisa,
Your absolutely right except you left out one part. I too hate standardized test and NCLB but the op is not fighting about that. The op is fighting over a trip to DISNEYWORLD The only problem she has with the test is that it is interfering with her vacation. I don't think we're attacking her but no way am I going to agree with some of the sugggestions she's gotten. Lying to the administration, pulling her kid out of the school and than re-registering him etc, etc. All to go on a 2 week vacation?

You're right it's her family and we all have to do what we feel is best for our kids but don't pee on my leg and tell me it's rainwater. This is not about screwed up school systems, standarized test, or tyranical school boards. This is about a vacation to Disneyworld.

Personally, I wish more people would get this outraged over the school systems in America, if they were as passionate about that as they are about a trip to the mouse we propably could get real change effected.

That part was just too funny.

Personally, if I had found out a year in advance that the time that we wanted to go to WDW my DS's were supposed to have testing, I would have just picked different dates. Before booking our current trip I talked to both the principal and vice principal of DS's school not just once, but twice. I wanted to make sure that on the dates I had picked there wouldn't be any testing done, and that I understood the absenstee policy. I wanted to go to be able to see WDW at Christmas, but DH could not take anytime off during the DS's break. If I had been told that they had testing during the time we could go, I would have just not booked the trip. I would not lie or pull my DS our of school for a vacation. I have no problem with pulling kids out for a week of school as long as you are following school rules. I just don't understand pulling them out for 2 weeks, that's just too much time at once. I would just reschedule the trip. IMHO, it's not fair to ask an already hard working school employee to come in on a Saturday, taking time away from their family, just b/c you took a chance and booked a trip when you knew your child had testing.

 

[allison443]

In rereading the OP, I see that this ISTEP test has been in place for a number of years, so OP must have known what is involved. I wonder if in the past years the school emphasized to the parents about not missing days during the testing period, or is this a brand new policy? Was this mandatory summer school a consequence in the past? If so, even though the previous principal said "I'm sure something can be worked out," I kind of feel like the OP should have pursued it at that point to make sure there was a solution, or changed the trip dates slightly.
Really, two weeks is a lot of school to miss starting on Sept. 15 at the beginning of fifth grade. Is the timing of the trip due to free dining? (I'm not sure how that works )

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

This is one reason why I hate standardized tests. Students are tested, but the results do not mean anything to some students and parents. However, the teachers and administrators, who will be evaluated and possibly even fired once the results come out, are affected. Last year during our HSPA, teachers were shaking and during the test I watched at least two students write one sentence and go to sleep.

It is a fact in our country that how students do on standardized tests will determine funding, which can affect many other things. For example, in my district, class sizes increased because we had a hiring freeze, I didn't have enough textbooks and couldn't order more, and many "extra" programs were cut. If you don't want this to happen in your schools, then please petition your state Board of Education to assess teacher, student and school performance using different standards.

When we give the HSPA, we have one week for the testing and the next week are the makeups. This is required by the state. We have never had a child miss both weeks, so I don't know what would happen. However, it seems like the school will likely have to go through a lot of extra work. Will the school be able to do something to get your child tested? I would imagine they will do everything in their power to do so; the funding for all the children in that school depends on that.

I am a teacher who doesn't think it is so terrible to miss a day or two of school to go to WDW- I know some people freaked out on a teacher who was missing two days of school for Disney not too long ago! Personally, my fiance recently got a promotion and summer is now his busiest time. I understand sometimes family schedules are not ideal and people go on vacation during the year. I always work around it with my students. However, there has to be a limit. If two weeks away from school is okay, how about three? or four? I had a student who was gone for five weeks to go to "his country". At what point does it truly set the child back?

I don't think the OP is intentionally trying to sabotage her child's education. I think she was operating on bad information. Obviously the OP cares or she wouldn't post. She's worried. I don't like how people are pulling the "bad parent" card. I also don't like the way some people portrayed teachers and principals as playground bullies who are "telling them what to do". If teachers and principals have no authority, and even requiring attendance is asking too much, how could we possibly expect our schools to succeed? Schools CANNOT succeed without students attending or without parental support.

I would really try to reschedule the trip- if not completely, maybe at least switch the first week of your vacation, so you'd be leaving a week later and coming back a week later, or even if you have to cut the trip by a few days, I would try my best to arrange testing before I'd lie about homeschooling and withdraw my child. I think that's bad advice, a bad example and a problem waiting to happen if you cannot get registered again in the same class. I really hope you find a way to make this work without hurting the school or your child. I really am sorry you got the bad information that started this in the first place.

Eliza61, you're also right-- the standardized tests hurt the gifted children, too. Schools need everyone to pass. Why spend time and money on gifted children who will pass anyway? The administrative argument is that if the school loses funding, gifted students will get even less. So sad. The students who are most behind are the ones schools are focused on now. As a teacher, I can say we are really, really upset about that.

 

[princessmom29]

Why did a thread about taking a child out of school for two weeks turn into a homeschool vs. public school debate?

My kids are homeschooled. I find your comments about homeschooled parents, children and the education they receive or provide at home rude and unnecessary. There are MANY opportunities for homeschoolers now than ever before. Home educated children are thriving and learning things that are not available to them in a traditional school setting. They are out testing public and private school students. They are getting full academic scholarships to college. They are going to Ivy League schools. Colleges are now
recruiting homeschoolers. It may not be better for every child, but please do not lump all of us in this stereotype you have. My kids are learning far more subject wise than they ever did in school. They also have the opportunity to learn things at home that they can not learn in school due to budget cuts (unless we pass the almost yearly levy). We visit museums, take art classes, music lessons, dance, play competitive sports, take classes at out local homeschool co-op taught by parents who are former teachers, mathematicians and some who are "unqualified" stay home moms who research and learn everything possible about a subject to teach it to our children. In fact my kids will spend tomorrow listening to Senator McCain speak in our state. They will also hear Senator Obama when he is here. What better way to learn about the upcoming election than to see it first hand. Sure we will have books to read and projects to complete to get the information. But hearing it first hand will make a much more lasting impression on them.

We are simply doing what is best for our children. Just like you feel you are doing for your students. Give us the benefit of the doubt. I do not feel superior. In fact I usually hide the fact that we homeschool so people do not stick an unwanted label on us. This is just all so upsetting to me. I honestly do not know one homeschool parent whom homeschools because it is the easy thing to do. We all want what is best for our children and feel that we are making the right choice for our children! Please extend the same courtesy you are asking us to give teachers. Homeschoolers are fighting a constant battle to prove we are “worthy” of educating out own children. Just as you are fighting to prove you are doing what you feel is best for your students. The system is flawed and I applaud you for working so hard. I just wish we could get the same respect.

I am NOT saying that all homeschool parents feel superior. I am just trying to point out that homeschool is not perfect in every situation. I realize that there are some homeschool pareants who do a really good job. In our area frome what I see they are vastly outnumbered by those who only homeschool b/c they "don't my kids exposed to puiblic school kids or teachers b/c the teachers are not qualified and the kids bad" this is the primary reason given by most home school parents I talk to and I think it is exteremly arrogant and teaches their children that they are better than the kids that go to public school. It is a we don't associate with those kids b/c we are smarter/ better/ more wealthy than them situation. That is what I have seen in MY experience with homeschool parents. It is only my experience though and I realize that there are homeschool parents out there that truly make an effort to get their kids the best education. Statistically though, hpmeschool kids lag behind significantly in math and science vs students in traditional schools, and are not offered scholarships to math adn science related degree programs with the same frequency. They outtest public school students verbally, but when compared with students who go through a college perp math and science program at a public school they test lower.

 

[Loverly]

Wow thats a very interesting way of learning. What a better way to learn about the culture and histroy then talking to people who are from those countries. Even text books cant do that!


History can even be covered between world showcase, especially in American Adventure and the Hall of Presidents in MK. .

Sorry-I've spoken with numerous CM's from foreign countries over the course of many trips and the most I have gotten from them is what city they are from. they are working. They are not going to discuss the culture of their country or the history of their country while running a cash register.

As far as learing American history from the Hall of Presidents....

 

[I_Know_You2!]

Sorry-I've spoken with numerous CM's from foreign countries over the course of many trips and the most I have gotten from them is what city they are from. they are working. They are not going to discuss the culture of their country or the history of their country while running a cash register.

As far as learing American history from the Hall of Presidents....

Disney history!

Learning about the countries, and other things in Epcot, and Animal Kingdom at home is nice for anyone. Visiting then becomes a nice field trip. No more, no less.

I know many homeschoolers, and I've yet to know one tacky enough to claim their time in Disney as a portion of their school hours.

 

[kellyg403]

I also am not a fan of standardized testing when so much is riding on it for the administration. NCLB, well, that is a whole 'nother issue for me. The whole thing just irritates me to the bitter end. I can not or will not find anything good about it. Not sure which one.

Though it is not the OP's situation, I understand familiies having to take the kids out of school in order to take vacations. Whether it be because a parent has issues re: vacation at work or because they are a blended family like ours. My SD's must got to their mothers house for the summer. Traditionally they are gone from the day after school lets out to about a week before school begins. Last year ysd came home early to start band camp. My chidren leave for about 45 days in the summer, spring vacations, etc. A family vacation is not a family vacation for us unless all of our children are with us. But, that being said, we do try hard to limit our vacation to a set time when the kids will already be out of school, missing only a day or 2 in the beginning or end of the trip. It works for us.

OP, I understand your frustration. Truly I do. But I also understand that school is between a rock and hard place as well. I don't think they are trying to make it hard for you, they honestly have no choices just like you now that your vacation is paid in full. I guess I would feel like having him take the test all in one day would be tough for him but the only option available. The summer school option truly is not fair for your ds. I am sorry that the previous principle made it sound like everything was a go, not to worry. I would think at this point, going to WDW, having a good time would be tough to do wholeheartedly with this hanging over your head. I hope it gets resolved for you and you are able to enjoy your trip.

 

[SnowWhite607]

Sorry-I've spoken with numerous CM's from foreign countries over the course of many trips and the most I have gotten from them is what city they are from. they are working. They are not going to discuss the culture of their country or the history of their country while running a cash register.

As far as learing American history from the Hall of Presidents....

I dont homeschool but I think that the American Adventure show in Epcot shows much more history than HoP. Its a great show and if you havent seen it, you must!! It shows things like the Revolutionary War, Civil War, the Great Depression, WWII, women getting the vote, the Native Americans, Teddy Roosevelt, some of the big inventions - telephone, sewing machine, electrocity, and theres a montage at the end that shows more recent events/cultural icons like Tiger Woods, Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, 9-11, Clinton and Bush, Super Bowls, etc. It is FABULOUS and a must see every time we are there!

 

[Shiningstar77]

I think I would email the superintendant.

I think more then anything these test measure progress of the school and the teachers - which creates the sensitivity to making sure the kids take the test.

Our schools (ohio) report cards for schools come out and they measure the improvement by grade from year to year - and I notice the attendance figures into the whole thing.

I don't believe that makeups won't be offered - things always happen and there are always makeups. I guess the problem might be if its while you are still away.

Can they force summerschool in your district based on standard tests - I would ask to see those rules in writing immediately as it's usually (always) based on GPA - SInce the test is offered twice a year I would think that passing grades on the spring version would prohibit the summer school.

 

[santa's surpriz]

Yep -- This is exactly what I would do!

This is exactly what the principal at my daughter's school suggest if your child will be absent for 10 days. This way does not count the unexcused absences or count against their scores for No Child Left Behind.