Somewhere Over China...

[DDLand]

Whatever the Blog post said, it appears that it should be taken with a grain of salt. It's been removed and replaced with the message "This blogger's posts are no longer available on The Huffington Post due to inaccuracies in representations he made regarding his professional affiliations."

Hah, that is amazing! I love it. Well so much for that article.

What are we thinking, disgruntled ex employee or Universal Secret Agent?

 

[clsteve]

Hah, that is amazing! I love it. Well so much for that article.

What are we thinking, disgruntled ex employee or Universal Secret Agent?

DDLand....

The fact that Willow Bay, the (ex) Senior Editor of the HuffPo is Iger's better half doesn't make you go

The fact that the article went from featured editorial, to blog entry, to gone, to the guy booted out the door in less than 24 hours doesn't make you go

When was the last time that happened? Did they just wake up and decide to do a deeper background check in about 10 hours after vetting him previously and letting him write features?

Look, I don't know the guy or his credentials from Adam. For all I know, he could be hiding WMD's under his mattress.

But, something triggered the quickest firing of a reporter this century....

Either they've orangutans doing the hiring at the HuffPo (which would be surprising, since they seem to have the fastest, most efficient, after the fact, credential checking department in the industry), or somebody threw a little weight around.....

I have no idea which. But, it does make you go hmmm....

 

[rteetz]

DDLand....

The fact that Willow Bay, the (ex) Senior Editor of the HuffPo is Iger's better half doesn't make you go

The fact that the article went from featured editorial, to blog entry, to gone, to the guy booted out the door in less than 24 hours doesn't make you go

When was the last time that happened? Did they just wake up and decide to do a deeper background check in about 10 hours after vetting him previously and letting him write features?

Look, I don't know the guy or his credentials from Adam. For all I know, he could be hiding WMD's under his mattress.

But, something triggered the quickest firing of a reporter this century....

Either they've orangutans doing the hiring at the HuffPo (which would be surprising, since they seem to have the fastest, most efficient, after the fact, credential checking department in the industry), or somebody threw a little weight around.....

I have no idea which. But, it does make you go hmmm....

Bob not happy lol

 

[DDLand]

DDLand....

The fact that Willow Bay, the (ex) Senior Editor of the HuffPo is Iger's better half doesn't make you go

The fact that the article went from featured editorial, to blog entry, to gone, to the guy booted out the door in less than 24 hours doesn't make you go

When was the last time that happened? Did they just wake up and decide to do a deeper background check in about 10 hours after vetting him previously and letting him write features?

Look, I don't know the guy or his credentials from Adam. For all I know, he could be hiding WMD's under his mattress.

But, something triggered the quickest firing of a reporter this century....

Either they've orangutans doing the hiring at the HuffPo (which would be surprising, since they seem to have the fastest, most efficient, after the fact, credential checking department in the industry), or somebody threw a little weight around.....

I have no idea which. But, it does make you go hmmm....

I know about the former family connection.

Conspiracy! This is just like how they're secretly destroying Disney World in order to enrich themselves...

Now Disney has one of the best PR departments around, and enough resources to look up a guys past. If Disney was involved it would've gone no farther then we don't like this guy for these reasons and we have this info. Or we'll cut you off from future Disney events if you don't take it down. Remember this is not the first time this guy has bloviated. Disney probably had their eyes on him.

Iger was criticized much worse earlier on in his tenure. He has a thick skinned or he wouldn't have made it this far.

Also keep in mind that if HuffPost found something bad with one of their guest writers, they would move quickly.

Edit: wdwmagic says it looks like it was him personally. Whoa, looks like @clsteve has made me look a little silly. You were right this time my friend!

 

[atricks]

There's definitely some back room stuff going on with the article, here it is since it's still cached in a few places. There's some valid points here. It probably hits a bit too close to home in a few spots. Even if parts are inaccurate. The guy is a member of the Redstone (Viacom owning) company, and indications are it was Willow Bay that pulled the article via surrogate, so this may indeed set off a big inter-media company family battle. The other key thing is the mentioning of the political grafting, which is China is known for. (see the huge unoccupied cities, malls, etc)

"Disney CEO Fumbles Entry to China"

Sorry Mickey, they're just not that into you. Minnie, you either.

For that matter, you can take the whole stable -- the "Fab Five" of Walt Disney's animated creations -- and, despite a media machine that churns a very different story, China has largely been a land where the fabled wishes, dreams and magic of the Walt Disney Company and its brand have virtually no connection with the consumer. As valued as that consumer is in the economic theater of globalism, the iconic brand synonymous with America has little appeal and less traction among the newly seated audience in the Chinese mainland.

To its 'vanilla on toothpaste' helmsman, Robert A. "Bob" Iger, who has shown himself to be an able cobbler of assets but a less than visionary leader of the media colossus that is the Walt Disney Company, this troubling if known and growing headwind threatens to undermine the content-heavy but culturally aloof purveyor of demographically unshackled product. For in his zeal to expand its library of content, Bob Iger has drop-kicked the Disney moniker to enter new and expanding marketplaces only to position a product that runs well afar of the expectation of the Disney bounce.

In so doing, the once unrivaled status of the Disney brand has become a catch-all for entertainment and its associated byproducts that are increasingly a strange and sometimes conflicted ragbag of franchised acquisitions presented as some sort of media mélange for all ages and all palates. Or, as John Dreyer, the longtime and immediate past head of corporate communications for the Walt Disney Company, said upon the publication of the column Disney CEO Readies Magic Carpet for Exit, "Disney losing its Disney way."

With the company making its grandest play for a market that dwarfs all others, Disney has found itself adrift in a crisis of identity that breaches the foundation of the castle upon which an empire was built. For as turrets were raised, wings were added and a moat of meticulously positioned whimsy was filled in to expand the Disney footprint, something that looks decidedly more pedestrian than the fantastical inspiration for one of the world's most coveted brands has emerged.

Leverage has become the arch of entry into the Disney-verse, while the brand has been marginalized into a holding vehicle for assets that are worth more separately than that vested in the castle itself.

As Mr. Iger said at the 2013 Fortune Global Forum held in Chengdu:

I think the first thing you have to do is you have to obviously be aware of what your most significant brand attributes are. What makes your brand your brand? Why is it great? You have to focus on quality and on those attributes that, again, created the value in the first place. You can't look to cut corners. You can't look to make something with your brand on it that's any cheaper simply because it's going into a market that may not be able to afford it the way another market may have. You can't compromise in that regard. So it starts with what I'll call quality and a respect for an allegiance to the very brand attributes that created the value in the first place.

Now, considering Shanghai Disney is preparing to make its 2016 debut as Disney's first foray into the renminbi rich Chinese mainland after a less than stellar arrival in the former British colony of Hong Kong in 2005, there are lessons aplenty to learn from that delayed embrace and the long stalled entry into the single largest consumer market on offer to the world -- the whole of China.

Under Mr. Iger's stewarding, Disney has partnered with the Shanghai Shendi Group, an umbrella name placed on a panoply of government-owned companies created to facilitate Western investment as a massive anti-graft campaign is just now rattling Beijing and beyond, to introduce a Disney 'branded' park to those consumers. A flag in the ground for Disney. A flag that has been in the works since the prime of Michael Eisner's reign at Disney and one that nearly collapsed entirely by the summer of 2006.

Indeed, Mr. Iger had to leave the annual Herb Allen retreat for media moguls, tech tycoons and other scripters of society in Sun Valley for an unscheduled trip to Shanghai that day in 2006, scrambling to save face and leading to a denouement worthy of great scrutiny by any company -- especially those entities whose trade is in intellectual property -- wanting to enter China.

Or, as Dalian Wanda Group Chairman Wang Jianlin, whose real estate and entertainment empire is building its North American headquarters adjacent to the Beverly Hilton at 9900 Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills, said on the same panel at the Fortune Global Forum:

[W]e have so many Western companies in China, but you cannot simply replicate the Western ideas and philosophies in China. They need to adapt to the Chinese realities... So for Fortune 500 companies in China it's very important, it's imperative for them to learn traditional culture in China and how is it interrelated with the modern business culture.

Curiously though, the world beyond the berm is told the 330 million or so Chinese within a three-hour trip to the site on the other side of Shanghai's Pudong International Airport cannot wait to queue up for a boat ride on "It's a small world" or whatever Disney is offering up for its reported $5.5 billion marker. As, no, there will apparently be no attraction of that name at Shanghai Disneyland.

Not in China. Not in a country where Mickey, Minne and the rest of the gang are barely known. In a country where Disney might as well be Smith or Jones or Johnson. Well, maybe not that last one as Johnson & Johnson is actually a reasonably well-known brand throughout China.

The Walt Disney Company has a history of stumbling if not outright tumbling in its efforts to export Disney's brand of Americana. For reference, look no further than Euro Disney -- now known as Disneyland Paris -- and Hong Kong Disneyland. Of the latter, it is worth note that Disney has been known to Hongkongers from the early days of the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studio. Yet, to this day, with a direct link by MTR line to points throughout Hong Kong, Disney is barely able to keep up with the brand devoid, geographically hemmed in and animal exhibit heavy Ocean Park in Aberdeen.

Over lunch earlier this month at Neptune's in the Grand Aquarium, Ocean Park Hong Kong CEO Tom Mehrmann, who began his career as a street sweeper at Knott's Berry Farm just up the road from Walt's original Disneyland, said, "Disney still has to explain to some of its guests exactly what a 'Disney Park' is. We don't have that problem."

To further illustrate this point, visit Disney's outpost on Lantau, a parcel of reclaimed land near Hong Kong International Airport, and you will notice a different Disney. Some call it 'Disney-lite'. Others refer to it as 'McKingdom'. Regardless, there is a definite feel of a diminished product -- of a diminished brand -- on stage for the public's consumption.

For, on a spit of land with an audience topping seven million attached by subway line having a familiarity and a kinship with the West, sits the real experiment of Disney's entry into the Chinese market. And there, on a recent day, at a performance of The Lion King in a theater designed for Disney's Animal Kingdom in Orlando dropped into the Walt Disney Company's first Disney branded park in China, the actors sought to lead the audience in a rendition of the hit tune from this classic of Disney's second golden age of animation: Hakuna Matata.

Hakuna Matata.
What a wonderful phrase.
Hakuna matata.
Ain't no passing craze.
It means no worries.
For the rest of your days.
It's a problem free philosophy.
Hakuna matata.

Arms raised high in the air, cast members -- on stage and off -- encouraged the capacity crowd to sing the infectious chorus. With lyrics blasting through the speakers and flashing on screens in the theater, they sought a simple singalong to the catchy and commercial hit written by Elton John and Tim Rice. Unmoved, the audience sat stone-faced. Child and adult alike.

Considering most individuals reading this are likely humming the tune or hearing it play as part of the soundtrack of their lives, that speaks poorly of Disney's penetration into the far less foreign landscape of Hong Kong. As for Shanghai, Mr. Iger continued on at the conference in Chengdu:

We're a brand that is viewed as good for me and good for my family. There are values to the Disney brand and what it stands for that have interested people all over the world. But, it's very, very important that while we bring Disney to a market we make sure that in that market it feels like, for instance, China's Disney.

In leaving the park on that recent evening, the dressed by and for Disney MTR cars filled with tired visitors exposed to, saturated in, that which is the Disney Parks experience offered up in Hong Kong. Looking to the left, to the right, all around, not one visitor had that uniquely American rite of passage positioned upon their head. Mickey ears. Not one.

And, in the second largest market for its product and the largest consumer market on the planet, Disney's Frozen, the highest grossing animated film ever having delivered over $1.27 billion in ticket sales and the fifth-highest grossing film of all time, earned little more than $48 million. Less than four percent of its global box office.

Welcome to China, Bob.

Gary Snyder is a member of the Redstone family, whose company, National Amusements, owns Viacom and CBS, among other media assets. He is an advisor on Western media and culture to China.

 

[clsteve]

There's definitely some back room stuff going on with the article, here it is since it's still cached in a few places. There's some valid points here. It probably hits a bit too close to home in a few spots. Even if parts are inaccurate. The guy is a member of the Redstone (Viacom owning) company, and indications are it was Willow Bay that pulled the article via surrogate, so this may indeed set off a big inter-media company family battle. The other key thing is the mentioning of the political grafting, which is China is known for. (see the huge unoccupied cities, malls, etc)

Thanks for posting this.

Well, this could get interesting. Seems like it would have been a better idea just to let the article die, instead of going all "vindictive Bob" on it. Not a good look. And is it a good thing to go to battle with the Redstone's and Viacom...? Doubt it. That's a really big dog with a lot of teeth.

Something hit too close to home. Your point on political graft is an interesting one. There's a huge initiative and investigation going on within China of government holdings companies exactly like Sendai, Disney's partner. What was that additional 800 million for again...? That's the problem with doing what he did - people start digging about what caused such a reaction and asking questions about things like that.

 

[rteetz]

Thanks for posting this.

Well, this could get interesting. Seems like it would have been a better idea just to let the article die, instead of going all "vindictive Bob" on it. Not a good look. And is it a good thing to go to battle with the Redstone's and Viacom...? Doubt it. That's a really big dog with a lot of teeth.

Something hit too close to home. Your point on political graft is an interesting one. There's a huge initiative and investigation going on within China of government holdings companies exactly like Sendai, Disney's partner. What was that additional 800 million for again...? That's the problem with doing what he did - people start digging about what caused such a reaction and asking questions about things like that.

Yes according to spirit over at wdwmagic Bobs wife did indeed use her powers to get rid of that article, and the redstone part was part of it. Spirit thinks Viacom may be after Disney for one of its brands such as marvel or ESPN. Also as for that 800 million it's not going to anything new it's new money for everything that's already supposed to happen. Bob is lying if he says the money is for new things because nothing was added to the plans when that was announced. No one knows exactly knows why the article was pulled but it obviously bothered Bob.

 

[clsteve]

Yes according to spirit over at wdwmagic Bobs wife did indeed use her powers to get rid of that article, and the redstone part was part of it. Spirit thinks Viacom may be after Disney for one of its brands such as marvel or ESPN. Also as for that 800 million it's not going to anything new it's new money for everything that's already supposed to happen. Bob is lying if he says the money is for new things because nothing was added to the plans when that was announced. No one knows exactly knows why the article was pulled but it obviously bothered Bob.

Thanks. That's worth taking a look...

 

[Josh Hendy]

I have dealt a little bit with officials in China and they are extremely allergic to seeing anything (right or wrong) about them or their department showing up on "the internet". They know that the western mainstream mass media can be (and is) tightly controlled but they greatly fear the wild, wild west of the blogosphere. I suppose it was the Chinese who pressured Disney who contacted the HuffPo to "make it so".

This firing and censorship is a sign that HuffPo is now mainstream. Congratulations, your blog are all belong to us!

 

[clsteve]

I have dealt a little bit with officials in China and they are extremely allergic to seeing anything (right or wrong) about them or their department showing up on "the internet". They know that the western mainstream mass media can be (and is) tightly controlled but they greatly fear the wild, wild west of the blogosphere. I suppose it was the Chinese who pressured Disney who contacted the HuffPo to "make it so".

This firing and censorship is a sign that HuffPo is now mainstream. Congratulations, your blog are all belong to us!

That would be far worse, don't you think?

That Iger would risk his reputation and especially his wife's (who as head of the USC School for Journalism, another big issue in all of this) that aggressively and that quickly at the bidding of Chinese officials. CEO of DisneyCo that much of a Chinese government lackey?

Scary proposition and would say a lot about who's running the "partnership" with Shendi Group....

 

[Josh Hendy]

I may have gone too far in implying that HuffPo, Iger or his lady friend are lackeys. If the author of the offensive article was misrepresenting himself or the facts about the project then I suppose it's not really damaging at all to Iger or his partner if they demanded a retraction. That would be pretty solid grounds for complaint IMHO.

But that said, it's impossible to do business with any kind of official agency in China without them expecting you to do everything in your power to maintain a polished or (preferably) silent and inscrutable media image "back home".

Not saying that this will happen to Disney, but some companies find themselves in a terrible moral quagmire after getting involved with projects in China that go wrong. For example there was an New Zealand dairy company who partnered with a Chinese government-owned baby formula company whose representatives were encouraging farmers to adulterate their cow's milk with plastic in order to spoof the protein measurements and get a bigger bonus. It may be nightmare scenario, but it shows how even the most innocent and simple investments in a dictatorial country can have a severe downside.

 

[clsteve]

I may have gone too far in implying that HuffPo, Iger or his lady friend are lackeys. If the author of the offensive article was misrepresenting himself or the facts about the project then I suppose it's not really damaging at all to Iger or his partner if they demanded a retraction. That would be pretty solid grounds for complaint IMHO.

But that said, it's impossible to do business with any kind of official agency in China without them expecting you to do everything in your power to maintain a polished or (preferably) silent and inscrutable media image "back home".

Not saying that this will happen to Disney, but some companies find themselves in a terrible moral quagmire after getting involved with projects in China that go wrong. For example there was an New Zealand dairy company who partnered with a Chinese government-owned baby formula company whose representatives were encouraging farmers to adulterate their cow's milk with plastic in order to spoof the protein measurements and get a bigger bonus. It may be nightmare scenario, but it shows how even the most innocent and simple investments in a dictatorial country can have a severe downside.

Completely understand.

And it is an incredibly tough environment to do business in. Kind of the Wild West, sometimes. But, if you're the CEO, the head honcho, it's your job to protect the integrity of the Company. Your job to protect the values the Company stands on. Make those tough decisions when revenue or ego are in conflict with those values.

It's what you get paid the big bucks for.....

 

[rteetz]

Spirit was back tonight with some interesting points

- we have yet to see a photo of Iger, staggs, Rasulo, or Philippe Gas the resort leader at SDL

- why you might ask? Shendi won't allow it

- the mysterious 800 million dollars, Disney and Iger refuse to answer questions regarding it

- willow Bay may have her job in jeopardy and Bob is going to be questioned more for that $800 million that was supposed to go to SDL for new added attraction...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I know about the former family connection.

Conspiracy! This is just like how they're secretly destroying Disney World in order to enrich themselves...

Now Disney has one of the best PR departments around, and enough resources to look up a guys past. If Disney was involved it would've gone no farther then we don't like this guy for these reasons and we have this info. Or we'll cut you off from future Disney events if you don't take it down. Remember this is not the first time this guy has bloviated. Disney probably had their eyes on him.

Iger was criticized much worse earlier on in his tenure. He has a thick skinned or he wouldn't have made it this far.

Also keep in mind that if HuffPost found something bad with one of their guest writers, they would move quickly.

Edit: wdwmagic says it looks like it was him personally. Whoa, looks like @clsteve has made me look a little silly. You were right this time my friend!

It is a little too conspiracy theory...

But ok - separate the author from the article...
It's a harsh take...but I don't think anything written is outlandish... There's at least a decent chance he's right. At the end of the day - it's a prediction article.

I still stand that the Chinese parks have nothing to do with resort profits...

Hong Kong was then foot in the door...in the western money city...they were hoping for "Tokyo lite"

Shanghai isn't about the "developing middle class"...they wouldn't keep the whole pot anyway like at wdw...you think they are going though all this and the capital investment for a walk away $100 mil in profit annually? That's less than willow spends in shoes...

It's about keeping the sweatshop products flowing to walmart and Mousegear...that's my theory.

 

[DDLand]

It is a little too conspiracy theory...

But ok - separate the author from the article...
It's a harsh take...but I don't think anything written is outlandish... There's at least a decent chance he's right. At the end of the day - it's a prediction article.

I still stand that the Chinese parks have nothing to do with resort profits...

Hong Kong was then foot in the door...in the western money city...they were hoping for "Tokyo lite"

Shanghai isn't about the "developing middle class"...they wouldn't keep the whole pot anyway like at wdw...you think they are going though all this and the capital investment for a walk away $100 mil in profit annually? That's less than willow spends in shoes...

It's about keeping the sweatshop products flowing to walmart and Mousegear...that's my theory.

Indeed, the story doesn't seem to be being told accurately. Who knows though? Spirit has a good track record.

I'll give you that, you could definitely be right there. What I did think was ridiculous was the author's assertion that Disney couldn't succeed because their brand is weak over there, and they don't know what they're doing. I still think the risk is grave, and it could be a decade before anything serious is made money wise. I just don't think that they're obtuse, and they're going in blindly. It also seems there is a large pool of money that can be made there longterm.

Disney has proven time, and time again they know what they're doing.

As for motives... Interesting. You're right that Hong Kong even now is making a fraction of what Walt Disney World, Tokyo Disney, and Disneyland do. (on the bright side they're still making more then Euro Disney lol) My one issue with Disney doing something like that is Shanghai Shendi Group. Why the heck are they going along with that? Disney isn't footing most of the bill, and apart from program costs Shanghai is also spending big on the surrounding infrastructure. Why? Prestige, jobs, economic growth, maybe requirements on spending cash on leisure items? Possible, yet I still think that it seems most logical that they're expecting a return on investment.

Though they could get burned like Hong Kong.

 

[rteetz]

Indeed, the story doesn't seem to be being told accurately. Who knows though? Spirit has a good track record.

I'll give you that, you could definitely be right there. What I did think was ridiculous was the author's assertion that Disney couldn't succeed because their brand is weak over there, and they don't know what they're doing. I still think the risk is grave, and it could be a decade before anything serious is made money wise. I just don't think that they're obtuse, and they're going in blindly. It also seems there is a large pool of money that can be made there longterm.

Disney has proven time, and time again they know what they're doing.

As for motives... Interesting. You're right that Hong Kong even now is making a fraction of what Walt Disney World, Tokyo Disney, and Disneyland do. (on the bright side they're still making more then Euro Disney lol) My one issue with Disney doing something like that is Shanghai Shendi Group. Why the heck are they going along with that? Disney isn't footing most of the bill, and apart from program costs Shanghai is also spending big on the surrounding infrastructure. Why? Prestige, jobs, economic growth, maybe requirements on spending cash on leisure items? Possible, yet I still think that it seems most logical that they're expecting a return on investment.

Though they could get burned like Hong Kong.

Spirit doesn't think Shanghai will perform well the first couple years. he also doesn't think it will be the top Disney park anytime soon if ever.

 

[DDLand]

Spirit doesn't think Shanghai will perform well the first couple years. he also doesn't think it will be the top Disney park anytime soon if ever.

I was talking about the Huffington Post article specifically in reply to Lockedout.

Yeah, I know his opinions very well. Some of them are warranted. Some are based on a unhealthy level of hate towards Robert Iger.

He's a journalist, and a theme park insider. Not necessarily a Walt Disney Parks operations expert.
Just a thought...

 

[rteetz]

I was talking about the Huffington Post article specifically in reply to Lockedout.

Yeah, I know his opinions very well. Some of them are warranted. Some are based on a unhealthy level of hate towards Robert Iger.

He's a journalist, and a theme park insider. Not necessarily a Walt Disney Parks operations expert.
Just a thought...

I was just putting it out there that is what he thinks.

 

[clsteve]

Indeed, the story doesn't seem to be being told accurately. Who knows though? Spirit has a good track record.

I'll give you that, you could definitely be right there. What I did think was ridiculous was the author's assertion that Disney couldn't succeed because their brand is weak over there, and they don't know what they're doing. I still think the risk is grave, and it could be a decade before anything serious is made money wise. I just don't think that they're obtuse, and they're going in blindly. It also seems there is a large pool of money that can be made there longterm.

Disney has proven time, and time again they know what they're doing.

As for motives... Interesting. You're right that Hong Kong even now is making a fraction of what Walt Disney World, Tokyo Disney, and Disneyland do. (on the bright side they're still making more then Euro Disney lol) My one issue with Disney doing something like that is Shanghai Shendi Group. Why the heck are they going along with that? Disney isn't footing most of the bill, and apart from program costs Shanghai is also spending big on the surrounding infrastructure. Why? Prestige, jobs, economic growth, maybe requirements on spending cash on leisure items? Possible, yet I still think that it seems most logical that they're expecting a return on investment.

Though they could get burned like Hong Kong.

Disney has proven, time and again, they know what they're doing ---- in the domestic market.

Internationally....? Let's be honest. Their one true success is that wonderful set of Parks in Japan. That's a royalty gig - in the one overseas country that's as consumptive of American culture as we are - or more. ( I lived it and am still amazed by it).

Paris ...? Just had to jump in and rescue that one.

HKDL...? I think you highlighted earlier the historical issues there. Plus the additional investment needed to get it to the plus side.

China...? See any good signs? An additional 800 mil shoved into an already 5.4 billion investment (in China!) prior to opening... for expanded capacity, additional rides, yada, yada. Yet none of that is actually happening. And the pictures show where the schedule really is.

It's hard to get past the fact that every P&R CapEx dollar spent over there is one not spent here.

Look, full disclosure. I'm as happy as anybody about the stock price. Absolutely no doubt about that. But, aren't they forcing the same formula, over and over to the overseas markets? The same easy footprint. Ignoring the IP that might work better. Like the WALL-e's, Incredibles, Star Wars, etc. Investments that we might also benefit from. Why not risk a few new E-Tickets in a country that has proven which genres generate revenue...?

Every major US company would be stupid not to try as hard as possible to penetrate that huge market. But, why not give them what we know they want? And delve into that huge, untapped, to a large extent, IP portfolio

Rteetz pointed to that thread on the other site. And, there was one comment I saw that really hit home - did Frozen really only do 46 million in the box office in China? How many years of domestic investment will it take to change that outlook in a generationally closed, homogenous society so they'll accept the footprint they're getting, much less love it...?

And why Shendi? Because that was the "price" of entry. Don't forget that it's a no lose proposition for Shendi. It's a government holding company. Meaning they hold all the cards. Meaning, in old Disney terms - they're the tar baby...

Hence the issue. Which we really won't know if it has legs for a long time. If there's fire under the smoke this may have generated, we won't see the big dogs come out until they're absolutely sure all of their ducks are in a row....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Disney has proven, time and again, they know what they're doing ---- in the domestic market.

Internationally....? Let's be honest. Their one true success is that wonderful set of Parks in Japan. That's a royalty gig - in the one overseas country that's as consumptive of American culture as we are - or more. ( I lived it and am still amazed by it).

Paris ...? Just had to jump in and rescue that one.

HKDL...? I think you highlighted earlier the historical issues there. Plus the additional investment needed to get it to the plus side.

China...? See any good signs? An additional 800 mil shoved into an already 5.4 billion investment (in China!) prior to opening... for expanded capacity, additional rides, yada, yada. Yet none of that is actually happening. And the pictures show where the schedule really is.

It's hard to get past the fact that every P&R CapEx dollar spent over there is one not spent here.

Look, full disclosure. I'm as happy as anybody about the stock price. Absolutely no doubt about that. But, aren't they forcing the same formula, over and over to the overseas markets? The same easy footprint. Ignoring the IP that might work better. Like the WALL-e's, Incredibles, Star Wars, etc. Investments that we might also benefit from. Why not risk a few new E-Tickets in a country that has proven which genres generate revenue...?

Every major US company would be stupid not to try as hard as possible to penetrate that huge market. But, why not give them what we know they want? And delve into that huge, untapped, to a large extent, IP portfolio

Rteetz pointed to that thread on the other site. And, there was one comment I saw that really hit home - did Frozen really only do 46 million in the box office in China? How many years of domestic investment will it take to change that outlook in a generationally closed, homogenous society so they'll accept the footprint they're getting, much less love it...?

And why Shendi? Because that was the "price" of entry. Don't forget that it's a no lose proposition for Shendi. It's a government holding company. Meaning they hold all the cards. Meaning, in old Disney terms - they're the tar baby...

Hence the issue. Which we really won't know if it has legs for a long time. If there's fire under the smoke this may have generated, we won't see the big dogs come out until they're absolutely sure all of their ducks are in a row....

One of the best comments I've ever seen...not because I agree with it...because how thorough it is...

Great reference too, by the way...I fell off my chair.

So are you suggesting...perhaps...that it's all about WWII?

Let me expound. The smash Disney parks/resorts...are
Located in the southern paradises developed heavily after 1945...and the other in an American outpost completely built by the US under the Marshall Plan...as a front for an anti-pinko naval base and factories for cheap product (china before china)

And on the other end...the struggle are in two frontline places that were brutalized by the Axis while Roosevelt watched...

Maybe they should've built euro in munchen and the Asian park in manilla?