Somewhere Over China...

[DDLand]

Interesting that has changed because there was an announcement and concept art for it.

Yeah, if anyone seems to be having trouble over in China it's our good friends at Uni.

Update: Also of interest. The day before Burke came out and talked about the project this article came out.
http://www.latimes.com/travel/theme...beijing-china-2019-20150218-story.html#page=2

Strange timing...

 

[atricks]

Looks like Dai Habo, one of the Shanghai leaders heavily involved with Getting Shanghai disneyland going is being accused of taking bribes related to it.

http://www.fcpablog.com/blog/2015/4...ficial-detained-for-alleged-shanghai-di.html#

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/128...gation/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Not sure what, this means for Shanghai DL, though.

 

[Andrew015]

Looks like Dai Habo, one of the Shanghai leaders heavily involved with Getting Shanghai disneyland going is being accused of taking bribes related to it.

Shocking. Bribes coming from China? Never would have guessed it...

Not sure what, this means for Shanghai DL, though.

It doesn't mean much of anything for Shanghai DL. These business practices are so common within China, it's just part of the routine. And that's not a generalized stereotype coming from an out-of-touch Westerner. I've conducted enough business dealings within China to speak intelligently on the topic and have experienced this type of corruption first hand. It seems shocking to us, but is truly just part of the norm. For everyone that gets caught, there are 2-3 others that don't.

 

[Cormoran]

Shocking. Bribes coming from China? Never would have guessed it...



It doesn't mean much of anything for Shanghai DL. These business practices are so common within China, it's just part of the routine. And that's not a generalized stereotype coming from an out-of-touch Westerner. I've conducted enough business dealings within China to speak intelligently on the topic and have experienced this type of corruption first hand. It seems shocking to us, but is truly just part of the norm. For everyone that gets caught, there are 2-3 others that don't.

I just wonder how much of WDC's budget went to paying bribes.

 

[Andrew015]

I just wonder how much of WDC's budget went to paying bribes.

Unfortunately, for all businesses, it's an unknown factor that is just part of the risk of doing business in China. The possibility of corruption exists throughout every single layer of any given supply chain. Certainly, one way of minimizing the risk is to minimize the amount of "hands in the pie". But with a project of this size and magnitude, it's simply impossible to avoid.

In a sense, it's like having a home or business in a hurricane zone. You know the risk and you may pay a bit more in the form of insurance to cover that risk. When operating in China, you know the risk for corruption exists, but because of the favorable prices, you simply roll the dice and hope for the best. Unfortunately for China, both currency and labor costs continue to rise unfavorably, making the "gamble" less and less favorable. My company - along with many others - are looking for the "next China" and are considering other regions to develop for these very reasons.

 

[rteetz]

Bob not happy

 

[Bay]

This isn't really surprising in the least, because as Andrew015 said, bribes are pretty normal for business practice in China.

The only thing that would be slightly worrying about this is that it might have a small chance to develop into an anti-American mess, as Xi Jinping seems seems to be targeting foreign business at the moment (although granted, it's mostly directed at tech fields for now). Very small chance though.

 

[Andrew015]

The only thing that would be slightly worrying about this is that it might have a small chance to develop into an anti-American mess, as Xi Jinping seems seems to be targeting foreign business at the moment (although granted, it's mostly directed at tech fields for now). Very small chance though.

I don't see that as a possible concern. 1.) The Americans (Disney) did no wrong here 2.) In this relationship, Shanghai needs Disney just as much as Disney needs Shanghai 3.) Everyone involved wants for this to be a huge success.

Dai Haibo becomes the fall guy. Everyone on both sides shakes their finger "shame, shame". Life goes on and both parties will pretend that hundreds of other examples of corruption aren't currently happening as I type this....

 

[Bay]

I don't see that as a possible concern

Yup, that's why I wrote all those qualifiers like "slightly" "small chance" and "Very small chance." I don't see it likely happening either, just throwing it out as a minute possibility. Politics do sometimes mess up what is economically beneficial to all.

 

[Alfalfa]

These business practices are so common within China, it's just part of the routine..

One of our neighbors is a young chinese couple with three children. He's big into precast concrete in China, apparently it's an elite and lucrative market there. They are here for six months and then China for six months. Every time they come back, he speaks for hours about the government corruption in China.

 

[Andrew015]

One of our neighbors is a young chinese couple with three children. He's big into precast concrete in China, apparently it's an elite and lucrative market there. They are here for six months and then China for six months. Every time they come back, he speaks for hours about the government corruption in China.

Interestingly enough, one of the many markets that my company deals in within China is precast concrete. Your neighbors are correct. The Chinese government is the heart of the problem, as they are the single, largest enabler of corruption.

 

[Cormoran]

Interestingly enough, one of the many markets that my company deals in within China is precast concrete. Your neighbors are correct. The Chinese government is the heart of the problem, as they are the single, largest enabler of corruption.

True for a lot of "Communist" countries. Russia was the same way, and with Putin in charge it seems to be heading down that road again.

 

[James Thick]

Please, allow me to weight in on this matter if you will.

First and foremost, the article was more than likely pulled for being a load of crap. NO news publisher in their right mind would pull a story with wings, no matter who used to be involved with them. To think Bobby Iger had his wife pull a few strings to get a story pulled is completely ridiculous. The story was pulled more than likely because it wasn't factual in this day and age of litigation.

Second, follow the stock. IF there is some grandiose conspiracy surrounding the apparent bribery of Chinese officials being done by Bobby Iger and The Walt Disney Company, DIS would have been affected by now. It hasn't. Not. One. Bit. Wall Street learns about such potential stock plunging activity long before the general public simply from the logic that the people in power, or the biggest share holders, will start to get out while the getting is good and get theirs before there is none to get. Wall Street insiders are a cagy bunch, much more well informed and active than theme park insiders, speaking of which...

Third. The only person harping on this ad nauseum is Spirit. Spirit is the Lou Mongello of the Bobby Iger hating club, without the style.

Until there is real proof to any wrong doing, Iam gonna call this a moot subject.


Jimmy Thick- Bobby Iger gets a pass anyway even if guilty.

 

[rteetz]

Please, allow me to weight in on this matter if you will.

First and foremost, the article was more than likely pulled for being a load of crap. NO news publisher in their right mind would pull a story with wings, no matter who used to be involved with them. To think Bobby Iger had his wife pull a few strings to get a story pulled is completely ridiculous. The story was pulled more than likely because it wasn't factual in this day and age of litigation.

Second, follow the stock. IF there is some grandiose conspiracy surrounding the apparent bribery of Chinese officials being done by Bobby Iger and The Walt Disney Company, DIS would have been affected by now. It hasn't. Not. One. Bit. Wall Street learns about such potential stock plunging activity long before the general public simply from the logic that the people in power, or the biggest share holders, will start to get out while the getting is good and get theirs before there is none to get. Wall Street insiders are a cagy bunch, much more well informed and active than theme park insiders, speaking of which...

Third. The only person harping on this ad nauseum is Spirit. Spirit is the Lou Mongello of the Bobby Iger hating club, without the style.

Until there is real proof to any wrong doing, Iam gonna call this a moot subject.


Jimmy Thick- Bobby Iger gets a pass anyway even if guilty.

I don't think the company would've been affected by the article. I do however believe Iger got his wife to remove the article. We are never going to get full on proof of that. We as the general public will never know the full story. I also do believe there are problems with this Shanghai project with bribery and other such things. Yes spirit is a Iger hater but he knows more than what we do. Iger also hasn't been the greatest CEO for WDW that's why he doesn't like him.

 

[James Thick]

I don't think the company would've been affected by the article. I do however believe Iger got his wife to remove the article. We are never going to get full on proof of that. We as the general public will never know the full story. I also do believe there are problems with this Shanghai project with bribery and other such things. Yes spirit is a Iger hater but he knows more than what we do. Iger also hasn't been the greatest CEO for WDW that's why he doesn't like him.

Yes, this would be front page news if there was any possible truth to corruption and bribery allegations being committed by the family friendly Walt Disney Company. It would be a lead story on Yahoo at the very least if not all major news outlets. If Willow Bay called in markers to get a possible reputation story pulled, someone of merit would have stepped forward and expose it by now, and Spirit, a second rate hack don't qualify. If Huffington Post had a bonafide story about misdoings going on at The Walt Disney Company, they would have ran with it simple for the publicity, Huff Post, or Puffington Host as its known in the trade isn't exactly the Walter Cronkite of journalistic integrity, its simply put, a collection of political, using a Spirit term, "Lifestylers".

As for Spirit knowing more than we do, that's debatable, he sure does like to beat his own drum.

Iger has been a great CEO, don't be fooled by has lack of building at WDW for his overall performance. When all is said and done, he's brought more to the Company, more long term assets than Walt even, and I don't write that lightly, but Marvel, Lucas, and Pixar in five years will be worth more than anything created by Walt or his Imagineers. That might not be a popular opinion, but it will be fact.


Jimmy Thick- Stock has gone up how much under Iger's watch?

 

[rteetz]

Yes, this would be front page news if there was any possible truth to corruption and bribery allegations being committed by the family friendly Walt Disney Company. It would be a lead story on Yahoo at the very least if not all major news outlets. If Willow Bay called in markers to get a possible reputation story pulled, someone of merit would have stepped forward and expose it by now, and Spirit, a second rate hack don't qualify. If Huffington Post had a bonafide story about misdoings going on at The Walt Disney Company, they would have ran with it simple for the publicity, Huff Post, or Puffington Host as its known in the trade isn't exactly the Walter Cronkite of journalistic integrity, its simply put, a collection of political, using a Spirit term, "Lifestylers".

As for Spirit knowing more than we do, that's debatable, he sure does like to beat his own drum.

Iger has been a great CEO, don't be fooled by has lack of building at WDW for his overall performance. When all is said and done, he's brought more to the Company, more long term assets than Walt even, and I don't write that lightly, but Marvel, Lucas, and Pixar in five years will be worth more than anything created by Walt or his Imagineers. That might not be a popular opinion, but it will be fact.


Jimmy Thick- Stock has gone up how much under Iger's watch?

I don't understand how knowing frozen was coming to maelstrom almost a year prior to the announcement, disney springs, mymagic+, the list goes on he has a great track record when it comes knowing what's coming to the parks. Much better than Jim hill or some others. Yes spirit is cynical and hard to please but that because WDW has become very generic. He still goes and so do I but WDW today is much different than the WDW when I first started. Iger has been a good CEO for the movies, and entertainment side but as for the domestic parks he hasn't. I don't care how much stock went up, they have bought back tons of stock since Iger has been CEO. Also the biggest investments in WDW under Iger have been DVC, and MyMagic+ both things that will bring in short term and long term money for the company along with lots of executive bonuses. MK hasn't seen an E ticket in decades. Epcot got an E ticket clone from DCA (Soarin). DHS keeps closing more and more. AK is getting avatar which I'm excited about but still will it be enough. Disneyland hasn't seen a new E ticket since Indiana jones in the 90s.

 

[DDLand]

Yes spirit is cynical and hard to please but that because WDW has become very generic. He still goes and so do I but WDW today is much different than the WDW when I first started.

You and I are both at a disadvantage in our age. I don't think we can go past a decade of real experience. Even then we were 6 year old observers. I don't think the parks have eroded significantly in the last ten years. From my readings the current problems began late 1990s early 2000s. This has just been a continuation. Certain things have slid, but for the most part ops have remained constant in our time of reasonable observation.

I don't care how much stock went up,

Therein lies your problem. That's his singular mission as CEO. Improving shareholder value through (partially) higher stock prices and a good method of doing that is:

they have bought back tons of stock since Iger has been CEO.

That's right, stock buybacks. It doesn't sound as cool as sinking it into a new E Ticket, but works more quickly.

Also the biggest investments in WDW under Iger have been DVC, and MyMagic+ both things that will bring in short term and long term money for the company along with lots of executive bonuses.

I'm not really sure what the problem is then. Both short and longterm money should be a good thing right? The board feels like their performance has warranted their pay, and in turn shareholders have too. Shareholders could mount a resistance if they'd like. Anyone remember Eisner?

MK hasn't seen an E ticket in decades. Epcot got an E ticket clone from DCA (Soarin).

Valid, but MK just finished up NF. Improvments have trickled in. Problem is attendance at MK has been booming. Want more work there? The crowds need to do something. Oh, and people could lay off the wine at Epcot too. At least until Disney notices the plunging revenue lines.

DHS keeps closing more and more.[\QUOTE] I dispute the validity of this statement. They've closed a targeted few attractions, but I don't think this is a continuing issue.

AK is getting avatar which I'm excited about but still will it be enough.

To do what? Let's just be excited we're getting it! ROL and the other improvments to existing areas and rides are coming too.

Disneyland hasn't seen a new E ticket since Indiana jones in the 90s.

You start to get on shaky ground there. Yes, each admission day at Disneyland is a separate product from using that ticket at DCA. I'm still hesitant to just ignore the DCA work though. Soarin', California Screamin, Grizzly River Run, Tower of Terror, Toy Story Midway Mania, and Radiator Springs Racers have all come online during that duration. Heck that whole park didn't exist 20 years ago. Then you also overlook the two completely reworked E Tickets Big Thunder Railroad and Space Mountain too. Thinking about it from an AP's perspective, (which many guests are) their Passport's value has increased greatly. Why? A whole new park has opened up to them. Because their passports give them access to 6 new E Tickets that have been built. Complaining about Disneyland always stricks me as funny.