Some rough observations on resort to dues increases

[PamOKW]

There are so many variables that it's hard to get a clear picture but here are a few observations on resort price increase vs. dues increases. I used "regular" season rack rate pricing without considering taxes.

In 1997 a one bedroom at OKW was $305 - for 2007 it's $420. A 38% increase and an increase of $115 per night

OKW dues have gone from $3.14 to $4.40 in that period -- up $1.26 per point or 40%. Using a rough figure of 25 points for a 1 bedroom weeknight, cost is up $31.50 per night.

In 2000 a BWV 1 bedroom was $395, in 2007 it'll be $480 - up 22% & $185.
Dues for that period went from $3.94 to $4.85 or up $.91 and 23%. Figuring 30 per night for a 1 bedroom, that's an increase of $27.30 per night.

For a non-DVC resort,

In 2001, CBR waterview regular season was $164, it's up 13% to $185

In 2001, GF lagoon view regular season was $425, it's up 18% to $500 per night.

We also have the influence of 9/11 working on these figures. DVC raised dues after 9/11 due in part to decreased interest rates and raised insurance costs. At the same time, WDW kept resort rates low to attract people back to traveling. I think we are just returning to some normalcy where dues are starting to stabilize again and resort prices are creeping back up.

 

[RobDoc]

Nice analysis, Pam.

Thanks for that information!

 

[korbbec]

Thanks- good analysis. You saved me major brain trauma!

 

[gtrist4life]

Thanks Pam, appreciate the effort and the numbers.

 

[owtrbnks]

Thanks!
I love reading numbers like these.

 

[OneMoreTry]

....
OKW dues have gone from $3.14 to $4.40 in that period -- up $1.26 per point or 40%. Using a rough figure of 25 points for a 1 bedroom weeknight, cost is up $31.50 per night.

....etc....etc...

Are members getting any more for renting their points than they were in 1997? (I've never rented mine out.)

 

[PamOKW]

Are members getting any more for renting their points than they were in 1997? (I've never rented mine out.)

I was thinking the same thing as I was looking at the numbers. I think rental continues to be about $10 per point. Of course, if that's all the market will bring that's all people can get for their points. But, with increased cost to buy in (per point has gone from roughly $50 to $100 over the life of DVC) and the rise in dues, I'd look long and hard at renting out my points for $10. Unless I really needed the money, I'd rather find a way to use the points even if it meant giving a friend or relative a trip before I subsidized vacations for people I don't know.

 

[kimberh]

I was thinking the same thing as I was looking at the numbers. I think rental continues to be about $10 per point. Of course, if that's all the market will bring that's all people can get for their points. But, with increased cost to buy in (per point has gone from roughly $50 to $100 over the life of DVC) and the rise in dues, I'd look long and hard at renting out my points for $10. Unless I really needed the money, I'd rather find a way to use the points even if it meant giving a friend or relative a trip before I subsidized vacations for people I don't know.

Those that are renting for $10.00 have not done the Math. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[dizfanz]

So, if I understand your analysis correctly, dues are basically keeping in line with inflation, huh? That's not bad.

 

[dumbo71]

There are so many variables that it's hard to get a clear picture but here are a few observations on resort price increase vs. dues increases. I used "regular" season rack rate pricing without considering taxes.

In 1997 a one bedroom at OKW was $305 - for 2007 it's $420. A 38% increase and an increase of $115 per night

OKW dues have gone from $3.14 to $4.40 in that period -- up $1.26 per point or 40%. Using a rough figure of 25 points for a 1 bedroom weeknight, cost is up $31.50 per night.

In 2000 a BWV 1 bedroom was $395, in 2007 it'll be $480 - up 22% & $185.
Dues for that period went from $3.94 to $4.85 or up $.91 and 23%. Figuring 30 per night for a 1 bedroom, that's an increase of $27.30 per night.

For a non-DVC resort,

In 2001, CBR waterview regular season was $164, it's up 13% to $185

In 2001, GF lagoon view regular season was $425, it's up 18% to $500 per night.

We also have the influence of 9/11 working on these figures. DVC raised dues after 9/11 due in part to decreased interest rates and raised insurance costs. At the same time, WDW kept resort rates low to attract people back to traveling. I think we are just returning to some normalcy where dues are starting to stabilize again and resort prices are creeping back up.

Now that is a great post.

Thank you for taking the time to do that.

 

[jodifla]

I was thinking the same thing as I was looking at the numbers. I think rental continues to be about $10 per point. Of course, if that's all the market will bring that's all people can get for their points. But, with increased cost to buy in (per point has gone from roughly $50 to $100 over the life of DVC) and the rise in dues, I'd look long and hard at renting out my points for $10. Unless I really needed the money, I'd rather find a way to use the points even if it meant giving a friend or relative a trip before I subsidized vacations for people I don't know.

But people are taking a HUGE RISK when they rent points. THat's what keeps the price low. Renters need to feel they are getting enough of a deal to be worth sending hundreds -- or thousands -- of dollars to a complete stranger, with no recourse.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that!

 

[littlestar]

But people are taking a HUGE RISK when they rent points. THat's what keeps the price low. Renters need to feel they are getting enough of a deal to be worth sending hundreds -- or thousands -- of dollars to a complete stranger, with no recourse.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that!

DVC members have risks, too. I wouldn't rent my points to a stranger. I would give them away to family or friends before I would rent to a total stranger that could possibly do damage I would be responsible for.

 

[bpmorley]

I don't think I could rent to a complete stranger. but I could see giving a good price to some close friends. I don't think I would ever charge family.

 

[jodifla]

DVC members have risks, too. I wouldn't rent my points to a stranger. I would give them away to family or friends before I would rent to a total stranger that could possibly do damage I would be responsible for.

I've never seen a report that they've held the member responsible. They hold the person responsible who is in the room.....

 

[PamOKW]

People who rent beach houses, ski chalets, lake camps, etc. from individuals are "theoretically" taking a "huge" risk too. But, you don't see people renting out their slopeside condo in Aspen for the cost of the insurance.

The Internet is what made renting simple and even possible for many people. The fact that there is a risk with Internet transactions really shouldn't factor into the price. If an individual doesn't want to take the risk, fine. If $10 a point is all the market will bear, then individual owners also need to factor in the risk involved and decide whether it's worth it to get back only a portion of what they have paid for the vacation they are selling.

For some time I've felt the "per point" didn't make a lot of sense. I'd rather offer the price of the vacation. The rack rate for a regular season one-bedroom at OKW with tax is roughly $470 a night. Let's say that's 20 points per night (seasons don't exactly correspond). Rather than renting for $200 dollars why couldn't I give you 50% off and make it $235? Or round it up to $250 per night vs. $470. The renter is still getting a terrific deal and the DVC owner is increasing the price to cover not only the actual costs they are paying for ownership but also something for the time involved in making the reservation, etc.

 

[littlestar]

"I've never seen a report that they've held the member responsible. They hold the person responsible who is in the room....."

There was a thread on the Dis board that a member was held accountable for some charges. But the member ended up getting the person that used the unit to pay the charges. It was worked out. But if I ever rented to a stranger, it would be my luck that the person would probably fall asleep smoking in bed and catch the whole place on fire.

But I work for an insurance company, so I'm just plain nervous about what CAN go wrong.

I would consider giving/transferring extra points to another DVC member if my family/friends couldn't use the points.

By the way, nice analysis, Pam.

 

[SimbaNoodle]

Thanks. Informative and concise.

 

[ffindis]

But people are taking a HUGE RISK when they rent points. THat's what keeps the price low. Renters need to feel they are getting enough of a deal to be worth sending hundreds -- or thousands -- of dollars to a complete stranger, with no recourse.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that!

But renters in 1997 were taking a risk when they rented points also. Therefore, the risk doesn't account for the facts that the price of rental points seems to remain stable over years and years of inflation.

 

[spiceycat]

my problem is OKW does not have room service nor valet parking - BWV does.

in 2003 OKW pay .71 less than bwv, this year and last it was .45 less.

this is way too much for oKW to be paying vs BWV.

Now if they give us room service - I will go along with it.

but to ask OKW member to pay so much when we don't get the services of BWV - is just not right!!!!

also there was time when the budget numbers were what you paided....

 

[kdzgon]

my problem is OKW does not have room service nor valet parking - BWV does.

in 2003 OKW pay .71 less than bwv, this year and last it was .45 less.

this is way too much for oKW to be paying vs BWV.

Now if they give us room service - I will go along with it.

but to ask OKW member to pay so much when we don't get the services of BWV - is just not right!!!!

also there was time when the budget numbers were what you paided....

Pardon my ignorance (new to this and have not yet visited any DVC), but aren't the rooms significantly larger at OKW? Seems to me that would definitely affect the cost of maintenance.