So sad by a death

Originally posted by Teejay32
All of these kids are "good kids". Add beer and put a few thousand together in Kenmore Square and they're morons.

I do not totally agree. I know behavoir changes with beer (more outgoing and louder) but I still think if you are a good law abiding citizen before you drink, you probably will be for the most part after you drink, you necessarily go around and destroy property and throw things at the police, IMHO.
 
Originally posted by beattyfamily
I do not totally agree. I know behavoir changes with beer (more outgoing and louder) but I still think if you are a good law abiding citizen before you drink, you probably will be for the most part after you drink, you necessarily go around and destroy property and throw things at the police, IMHO.

I completely agree. I did a lot of drinking at BU....and even more drinking in law school....and I never destroyed anyone's property. I drank a lot on Landsdowne Street, too and never once did I get the brilliant idea of trying to scale the Green Monster.
 
Originally posted by beattyfamily
I know that this poor poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time and was hit accidentially by a police officer but if those jerks (not the girl) weren't doing what they were doing and throwing things at the policemen, I don't think she'd be dead.

Originally posted by airhead
I do not feel like the Police were using excessive force. These kids destroyed people's cars! They set fires in the area. They went nuts!!!

Originally posted by tidoublegger
I feel terrible for the family of the young lady who died, but I can not fault the Boston PD for doing their job.

I'm afraid there will be more injuries and deaths because the drunk people that do this, aren't going to stop. What do you think will happen in Boston Saturday night after the game? Lets hope all those "innocent bystanders" stay home. [/B]


How about some responsibility for the people that actually did the killing too? If the Boston Police Department did not know the potential damage of using "non-lethal weapons," then they SHOULD NOT BE USING THEM.

Does everyone saying "yeah, but, she was where she wasn't supposed to be" also blame a rape victim for walking home at night alone? Let's not excuse the police just because they are the police. Remember, they are given a lot of power in order to handle their responsibilities, and such should be held to a HIGHER STANDARD.

There IS a limit, and it seems upon first inspection that the Boston Police Department crossed it (note that they are now "taking full responsibility" for the death). There has to be something wrong when the "cure" is worst than the "problem."
 
Originally posted by airhead
Does anyone know why she was there? Boston police and the mayor told people to stay away from the area and that they would not tolerate riot behavior. What's wrong with our young people that they need to destroy property when they celebrate??
I do not feel like the Police were using excessive force. These kids destroyed people's cars! They set fires in the area. They went nuts!!! I know a few people who live near there and they said it was totally out of control. Mostly young drunk males dstroying anything in their path. I guess a lot of cars and building were spray painted. Now,how would you feel if it was your property that was destroyed??
I really think that all bars and liquor stores in the Fenway neighborhood should be closed during the games this week.

I agree with this. My heart breaks for Victoria and her family, and I truly believe she was an innocent bystander but this issue runs so much deeper than just finding a person responsible.

The Boston police force has already taken responsibility but I truly think the responsibility lies with all of the drunken idiots who resort to violence to celebrate joy that caused the police to use force in the first place. I think the young man they were aiming for had been throwing glass bottles at cops and beating them when they fired. This poor girl was in the way and unfortunately was hit.

I don't think the officers ever in a million years thought that a projectile gun would cause a fatal injury. I fear that after this incident this will no longer be an option for the police to use in any situation.

On the subject of the destruction and mayhem outside of Fenway Park : I have a friend who lives a stone's throw from the park. He no longer has a car because everytime there is a game, cars get trashed. He had his apartment broken into and most of his smaller, personal belongings taken after a game once. He has had fires lit on the sidewalk near him. On game nights, he doesn't sleep because of the noise and fear that somone will set his buidling on fire. As soon as his lease is up, he is getting as far away from Fenway as possible.

I really do not understand the urge to get drunk and scale a building when my team wins. I get the urge to jump up and down and hug my friends and call my family and say "Did you see that last play???" etc. but I have never had the urge to beat the living hell out of a police officer. Not while sober. Not while drunk. Not while angry. Not while happy.

I agree with what another poster said. "Good" law abiding, nice people tend to remain that way when drunk and in crowds. I think most of the people starting the fires and causing the problems were really just itching for a fight and this gives them the excuse. IMO, it's inexcusable. THEY are the ones responsible for incidents like this. If they could celebrate in a peaceful way, and respect the law there would be no need for cops to ever use force in crowds.

A very sad situation all around and terrible tradgey on what should be a happy occasion for this city.

Airhead, I wish bars and liquor stores would close or be open very limted on game nights, but of course this is a huge part of their income and there are a lot of people who do just sit in the bar and cheer for the teams and have a few drinks responsibly.
I feel like the shopkeepers should not have to take a hit just because of the idiots who can't control themselves. But they should start refusing sales to rowdy people. But then I guess the rowdy people will just start bringing in liquor from elsewhere. :( Sad. Very sad.
 

Originally posted by Doug123
How about some responsibility for the people that actually did the killing too? If the Boston Police Department did not know the potential damage of using "non-lethal weapons," then they SHOULD NOT BE USING THEM.

I could be wrong, but I believe that this was a freak accident. The pellet or whatever hit her eye. The officers were not aiming for her.

I think that the odds of this sort of thing happening again are very slim.

The odds of an on duty police officer being shot and killed by some punk are very high and I think the cops need to have the weapons availble to protect themselves. The officer who shot this gun was in the middle of having glass beer bottles throw at his head. The odds of being killed by a glass beer bottle striking your head are probably higher than the odds of being killed by a non lethal weapon.

I really don't understand people who fault the police for doing their jobs. I'm not trying to take away from the tradgey of her death but there was a reason the cops were there, and they did not intentionally aim for her let alone for her eye. It was a tragic accident that would not have happened had the drunken morons not caused a riot scene.
 
Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I don't think the officers ever in a million years thought that a projectile gun would cause a fatal injury. I fear that after this incident this will no longer be an option for the police to use in any situation.

If they never thought it would cause a fatal injury, then they should have done more research before shooting with it into a crowd of citizens they are employed to protect.
 
I just thought of something. Our New Year's Celebration, First Night; That's a night with thousands of people celebrating in the streets and as far as I know, there's been no trouble. I have a feeling it's because it's families and mature adults (and yeah, some teens and college students too) doing the celebrating in the streets as opposed to what happened the other night...thousands of drunk college students in one place.

Oh and one more thing, this incident for some reason reminded me of another incident that happened in NY in the Central Park?? No one died but do you guys remember it was a mob scene and women were being molested and their shirts being torn off and no one was helping them?? It was during the middle of the day. What was it? After a parade? I can't remember.

I guess something happens when a big group of people get together...mob mentality, unfortuately.
 
It was mob mentality plain and simple.

The cops didn't come in and start firing the pellets right away either. They gave plenty of opportunity for the crowd to leave. When they showed up and asked them to leave, people started getting more disruptive and the cops had to control the crowd. Do you have a better way for them to get a rioting crowd drunk and destroying property under control? I'm sure they never dreamed that pellet would harm anyone.

What if the cops came in on horseback and someone got trampled by the horse in the crowd? Are you going to blame the police and say they should have known that someone would get hurt by the horse?
 
.....its young drunk males causing the problems. What's wrong with you guys????
 
Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I agree with this. My heart breaks for Victoria and her family, and I truly believe she was an innocent bystander but this issue runs so much deeper than just finding a person responsible.

The Boston police force has already taken responsibility but I truly think the responsibility lies with all of the drunken idiots who resort to violence to celebrate joy that caused the police to use force in the first place. I think the young man they were aiming for had been throwing glass bottles at cops and beating them when they fired. This poor girl was in the way and unfortunately was hit.

I don't think the officers ever in a million years thought that a projectile gun would cause a fatal injury. I fear that after this incident this will no longer be an option for the police to use in any situation.

On the subject of the destruction and mayhem outside of Fenway Park : I have a friend who lives a stone's throw from the park. He no longer has a car because everytime there is a game, cars get trashed. He had his apartment broken into and most of his smaller, personal belongings taken after a game once. He has had fires lit on the sidewalk near him. On game nights, he doesn't sleep because of the noise and fear that somone will set his buidling on fire. As soon as his lease is up, he is getting as far away from Fenway as possible.

I really do not understand the urge to get drunk and scale a building when my team wins. I get the urge to jump up and down and hug my friends and call my family and say "Did you see that last play???" etc. but I have never had the urge to beat the living hell out of a police officer. Not while sober. Not while drunk. Not while angry. Not while happy.

I agree with what another poster said. "Good" law abiding, nice people tend to remain that way when drunk and in crowds. I think most of the people starting the fires and causing the problems were really just itching for a fight and this gives them the excuse. IMO, it's inexcusable. THEY are the ones responsible for incidents like this. If they could celebrate in a peaceful way, and respect the law there would be no need for cops to ever use force in crowds.

A very sad situation all around and terrible tradgey on what should be a happy occasion for this city.

Airhead, I wish bars and liquor stores would close or be open very limted on game nights, but of course this is a huge part of their income and there are a lot of people who do just sit in the bar and cheer for the teams and have a few drinks responsibly.
I feel like the shopkeepers should not have to take a hit just because of the idiots who can't control themselves. But they should start refusing sales to rowdy people. But then I guess the rowdy people will just start bringing in liquor from elsewhere. :( Sad. Very sad.

Very well said! I agree 100%!
 
Originally posted by airhead
.....its young drunk males causing the problems. What's wrong with you guys????

true....probably homegrown and not even in college. Arrgh. It's so depressing.
 
I have such mixed emotions on this. First, my heart breaks for that girl's family. However....

This incident happened well after the riot, opps, celebration started. The woman, not girl (she was 21), should have had the adult perception to see how bad things were getting and remove herself from the area.

No, I am not blaming her for getting shot but I'm not blaming the police either. If you put yourself in harms way and know that these things have happened in the past (Pat's celebration earlier this year) then you take your chances and pay the price.

Apparently young males + alcohol + sporting event win or lose = mayhem. I've been to organized victory celebrations recently with hundreds of thousands of people and there hasn't been violence. First night (Boston's New Years Eve party) is a family oriented event. Again no violence. And the mother of them all... July 4th with upwards of a half a million people, well, you could bring your great grandmother!

So what's the answer? I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of law enforcement and I wonder how I'd feel being one man or one woman surrounded by thousands of drunken, mob mentality, idiots. If the pepper spray gun had been used correctly, this death never would have happened but fear is an awesome controller. Even the best of law enforcement must have felt threatened.

The one thing about the other night that sticks with me was a fight I saw while watching TV. It must have around 2 a.m. It was two young WOMEN going at it in the middle of the street. Finally some guy pulled one girl away from the other by her HAIR!! She never even seem to feel it and tried to go back and resume when she'd left off.

It's times like that that leave me shaking my head and wondering where this is all leading.

Roberta
 
This whole incident is just terrible. But even further thumbs down to the Boston Herald, which apparently printed pictures of the young woman bleeding on the pavement.

I heard Curt Schilling address this on a radio show and he was quite amazing. His basic message was that these people need to grow up and all true Sox fans need to stop people if they see them doing something stupid in the coming days. He also expressed his sorrow for the family of the young woman.

I clapped when he was finished speaking. Hopefully, people will listen.
 
Originally posted by theSurlyMermaid
This whole incident is just terrible. But even further thumbs down to the Boston Herald, which apparently printed pictures of the young woman bleeding on the pavement.

I heard Curt Schilling address this on a radio show and he was quite amazing. His basic message was that these people need to grow up and all true Sox fans need to stop people if they see them doing something stupid in the coming days. He also expressed his sorrow for the family of the young woman.

I clapped when he was finished speaking. Hopefully, people will listen.

The photos they put in the Herald were sickening. The editor released an apology this afternoon but still, there was no need for such graphic photos. If nothing else comes from it, I hope some of the rioters saw them and realized what their stupidity had done. :sad2:

In a more positive light, Curt Schilling is, IMHO, one of the most amazing athletes I have ever seen or heard. Every thing I learn about this guy I like him more and more. He personifies what a good athlete should be.
 
Gail....I am so so sorry for your personal loss.

And sad and sickened at the tragedy. I have an 18 year old DD a freshman at UNH...they had riots there last year relating to their hockey team and the Sox. Things were a bit scary this week even after game 6...and for game 7 she wisely (after not much prompting from me ;) ) chose to stay in her dorm during and after the game. I'm worried about how it will go during the WS this week.

I echo all your general thoughts EsmereldaX.

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
If nothing else comes from it, I hope some of the rioters saw them and realized what their stupidity had done. :sad2:
Unfortunately I don't believe the worst culpits remember what they did or take responsibility for their own actions....let alone recognize that their behavior directly contributed to a tragic death. :(
 


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