So, let's assume FP+ doesn't come back in its old form

[Lumpy1106]

This is non-negotiable for me. When, not if, it comes, there needs to be preferential treatment for those willing to pay on-site (Disney properties only) rates.

I don't mind if they offer something to good neighbor hotels, but it needs to be less attractive than what is offered to on-site.

Totally agree. When we bought DVC the first question my DS asked was do we still get 60-day-out FP's. YES? OK, then we are in. OK, well, right now, we don't. Granted, without being DVC we would not have gone last summer and would not be planning a trip now for this summer. BUT...what about when things go back to "normal"? Comparing DVC annual costs to on-site is still a great deal. Compared to off-site though? I'd want to run the numbers - the value starts to drop off considerably though, that's for sure. The only really big advantage to staying on-site right now is that Disney has the COVID safety thing nailed. We don't have nearly the same confidence with the rest of FL.

 

[Sarahslay]

I mean, there's also the "not wanting to have a tour guide on your vacation" thing though. I read and post on disboards, I don't need a guide, and I'd find it awkward having to make small talk when I'd rather just be paying attention to my kids and wife. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Oh yeah, I would absolutely never have one even if there are perks of skipping all the lines, it's not needed for us. I was just mentioning because someone was upset and basically saying people shouldn't have more access to stuff just because they can afford it. I mean the "class system pay to play" as they put it is already there, and has been there, for a long time. I am an AP and go around 6 times a year, I've ridden everything tons of times (I know that's not the norm), and I stay deluxe because I'm not needing to stay in the parks from open to close. This is why I was staying club level and doing more after hours events than parks during the day, I don't have to kill myself to do it all and would rather relax. I also paid a lot more, and had access to the extra FP program which cost even more money, it is all essentiallly pay more get more that not everyone can afford. However, if I only came once every year or two (or more) I would definintely be willing to pay more for more experiences so I could get the most out of my trip. If I can't afford to take the kind of trip I want then I'm going to wait until I save up enough to be ale to afford all the extras I want. If that's paid FP, dining I want, events, whatever it is I'll just wait.

 

[wilkydelts]

Disney knows they can take things away and people will still come. They know they can keep the prices high and people will still come.

I don't think is always applies. There have been many instances where Disney was offering promotions that begged people to come. We would all go crazy for some of those promotions if they were on the market again. I would love to experience buy 4 get 3!

 

[tink2424]

Universal-type Express pass staying at a deluxe - Although we liked the Express pass, it would not work for WDW. Universal is a 3- to 4-day vacation. On our last trip (our only trip), we were done doing everything by the 4th day using our Express passes. So, we only had to pay for a deluxe resort for 3 nights. Because WDW is so much bigger, we prefer to stay for at least 7 nights. To pay for a deluxe resort at WDW for 7 nights (4 more nights than Universal), we will be basically paying $450-$600 to sleep in our room in order to get FPs. Add the cost of transportation, rental car, and parking,, well it will not be affordable for most families.

I don't know why people keep saying an Express pass system would not work at Disney. It absolutely could but again would need to be limited to a small number of hotels and then they could also sell some additional "express passes" at a premium like Universal does. And this would reduce the amount of time that people would need to stay on site at Disney or possibly even how many nights they would need to pay for to stay at the Deluxe hotel.

This system would work and it would absolutely be fantastic. Now I don't see them going that way since they also have DVC which is not available at Universal. I'm sure they don't want to discount their DVC members who would not be paying out of pocket for deluxe resort HOTEL rooms when they have their DVC memberships.

What I would like to see happen is a paid "Express Pass" that you can buy daily and use in any park (meaning that if you park hop you can use it at any park you hop to as well as where you start). What I think we will end up with are FP bundles like they do at the other parks Ex-US. Where they allow you 1 time access to each ride in that bundle. Or possible a premium version that allows you access to the fastpass lane for once for each ride in 1 park only. But I guess time will tell but a paid version is coming and I don't think they will limit it to on-site guests as they just want to make money wherever they can.

 

[JakeAZ]

But I guess time will tell but a paid version is coming and I don't think they will limit it to on-site guests as they just want to make money wherever they can.

I agree with this. Also, I don't mind if whatever they offer is available to everyone. I just firmly feel there needs to be a benefit to those who choose to pay more to stay on-site and it needs to be tiered. Like another posted earlier said, "If I stay at a value property, I expect value benefits. If I stay at a deluxe, I expect deluxe benefits."

 

[JakeAZ]

Am I incorrect in thinking the Fastpass+ offering was almost essentially unlimited fastpass included with ticket price if you knew how to work it?

You're not wrong. Which is why WDW has wanted to monetize it for years.

 

[JakeAZ]

I don't know why people keep saying an Express pass system would not work at Disney. It absolutely could but again would need to be limited to a small number of hotels and then they could also sell some additional "express passes" at a premium like Universal does. And this would reduce the amount of time that people would need to stay on site at Disney or possibly even how many nights they would need to pay for to stay at the Deluxe hotel.

Here's why it won't work.

Disney charges $600+ per hour for a human FP (with 8, I think, hour minimums). $4800 (plus tip) for one day and that's only 8 hours. No way they are going to give a family of 4 full day's access because they paid $700 for their hotel room.

 

[Blondie58]

We liked the fast pass program just the way it was. This does not mean it was perfect for others. This does not mean that reevaluating and enhancing what was offered is not a good idea. However, as stated: Fast pass in its pass form worked great for us and we would embrace having it retune asap. Our ages and long waits standing in line impacts our thoughts.

 

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

I agree. I love FP+. We always planned our 1st three a 1 1/2-2 hours after opening, did them back to back and were always able to get additional rides on every attraction we wanted to go on. It became a game to me and I was very successful in getting extra FP’s. We are going back in May and I am stressing the fact there might not be FP’s.

I think you may be pleasantly surprised at how much less stressful it is at the parks without worrying about FP all the time. Especially in May when the crowds shouldn't be that bad.

We've been back twice since they dropped FP and have no complaints. Granted the lines look long due to social distancing requirements, but we found we were on and off most rides in less than 30 minutes, even though the posted timed were much longer. It was nice to be at the parks without seeing everyone with their face in their phone all day trying to grab their next FP. Much more enjoyable. I hope you will agree.

 

[Miffy]

I think you may be pleasantly surprised at how much less stressful it is at the parks without worrying about FP all the time. Especially in May when the crowds shouldn't be that bad.

We've been back twice since they dropped FP and have no complaints. Granted the lines look long due to social distancing requirements, but we found we were on and off most rides in less than 30 minutes, even though the posted timed were much longer. It was nice to be at the parks without seeing everyone with their face in their phone all day trying to grab their next FP. Much more enjoyable. I hope you will agree.

My feeling is that this is working now, with reduced capacity, but once they're up to full (or nearly full) capacity, my belief that this will still be viable is kinda low.

 

[JakeAZ]

I think you may be pleasantly surprised at how much less stressful it is at the parks without worrying about FP all the time. Especially in May when the crowds shouldn't be that bad.

We've been back twice since they dropped FP and have no complaints. Granted the lines look long due to social distancing requirements, but we found we were on and off most rides in less than 30 minutes, even though the posted timed were much longer. It was nice to be at the parks without seeing everyone with their face in their phone all day trying to grab their next FP. Much more enjoyable. I hope you will agree.

Good points about the current situation.

But what do they do when the parks start filling up again as capacity is increased? You can't expect people to be happy about going from long line to long line all day long at those prices.

 

[Disneyfan754321]

My biggest complaint with FP was... last minute trips was not a thing. I already had issues getting the popular rides because my trip was only 60+2 .
Now that we live closer we can take last minute trips

 

[JakeAZ]

My biggest complaint with FP was... last minute trips was not a thing. I already had issues getting the popular rides because my trip was only 60+2 .
Now that we live closer we can take last minute trips

So true.

And those with 30 day out privileges were basically shut out of everything during busy times.

 

[What-r-ya Goofy?]

So what happens in a scenario where most everyone buys the new pay to play FP for $20 a head. Aren't we just moving everyone from the standby line over to the new FP line and the wait time is just as long?

Virtual queues may be the way to go with the cost built into the base ticket price so everyone pays the same. They'll still need perks for guests staying on-site, but that's where EMH worked well before.

 

[JakeAZ]

So what happens in a scenario where most everyone buys the new pay to play FP for $20 a head. Aren't we just moving everyone from the standby line over to the new FP line and the wait time is just as long?

Virtual queues may be the way to go with the cost built into the base ticket price so everyone pays the same. They'll still need perks for guests staying on-site, but that's where EMH worked well before.

$20 a head? For what?

If you look at the CL offering, it was $50pp per day for 3 extra. And you had to commit to 3 days AND stay in club level.

I can promise you when it comes, it won't be cheap and looked at as a required add-on.

 

[pixiedust2u]

Good points about the current situation.

But what do they do when the parks start filling up again as capacity is increased? You can't expect people to be happy about going from long line to long line all day long at those prices.

This is our concern as we’re are scheduled to go in June. It’s almost a given that with falling Covid numbers and vaccines they will most def be increasing capacity. So what happens when those 30 minute lines turn into, 40 or 50 minute lines or longer. Two kids, heat, and long lines all day. Not our idea of a good time, and most certainly not a good value for our money! Especially when compared to our prior experiences with FP+ when we wouldn’t wait more than 20 minutes on some days!

 

[fly girl]

My biggest complaint with FP was... last minute trips was not a thing. I already had issues getting the popular rides because my trip was only 60+2 .
Now that we live closer we can take last minute trips

NAILED IT!! I know how to work FP+, I know all about the refresh button and booking my FP+ rides early as I can. Still disliked it because: a) I can ride the 3 initial rides faster getting MaxPass one at a time on my app versus the 3 hour time frame for FP+. And b) we are a last minute trip family. We don’t work M-F/9-5 jobs, we plan our trips when we get our schedules which is one month prior. Good luck getting a hard to get FP+ ride (FOP, MMRR, SDD) a week prior - let alone a morning FP+ which we want. Sure, I have been lucky enough to score one a week out, by stalking the app for hours on end.

I’d much rather go to MaxPass/FastPass system DLR has. You can’t get a FP until you’ve been in a park. None of this 60/30 days prior bologna.

$20 a head? For what?

If you look at the CL offering, it was $50pp per day for 3 extra. And you had to commit to 3 days AND stay in club level.

I can promise you when it comes, it won't be cheap and looked at as a required add-on.

I think PP was referring to the DLR price of MaxPass which is $20 per day, per person.

 

[disneypharm]

Completely agree.

Disney knows they can take things away and people will still come. They know they can keep the prices high and people will still come.

Here I fixed it: Disney thinks they can take things away and people will still come. They think they can keep the prices high and people will still come.

But that was the way they used to think before the pandemic.

I wish this were true, but I think the opposite is the case: As soon as covid is really under control, the resorts are all open, and social distancing and mask wearing are a thing of the past, WDW is going to raise their prices, probably substantially, because everyone who hasn't gone in the past year--especially those of us who're feeling extremely Disney-deprived (that would be me!)--is going to want to go. There will be zero discounts. I hope I'm wrong, since this is probably when I'm going to go again, but Disney has been bleeding money and they're going to want lots of it as soon as they can get it.

And I'll be very surprised if paid FP isn't part of increased prices across the board for anything and everything. Even before covid, WDW had started charging for things they'd never charged for before--like parking at the resorts. And back in those golden days, they had plenty of income.

Remember after 9/11, it took several years before Disney got their crowds back. They had to resort to giving deep discounts, free dining, new magical express, etc... I think it was faster for the country to bounce back because it was one horrible event that basically paralyzed the travel industry.
Covid-19 is a different beast. It kept the parks closed for months, millions of people lost their jobs, savings, homes, and damage has been done to a lot of industries. So, it will take years for the country to bounce back.

People need to stop looking at the stock market and think the economy is fine. They look at their savings and 401K and think that they have the money to go back to Disney as soon as the pandemic is over. Well, more than half of Americans do not have any stocks or care about what happens to the stock market. They just see their own bank account and credit card limits and decide on going to Disney. If they don't have jobs or barely back to working, then it would be a while before Disney can get their crowds back.

Of course I am not an economist, well, I don't think any of us are on this thread. Corporations make mistakes and eventually will figure it out. In the meantime, let's hope Disney doesn't crash and burn like a lot of companies that made bad decisions.

 

[JakeAZ]

Here I fixed it: Disney thinks they can take things away and people will still come. They think they can keep the prices high and people will still come. But that was the way they used to think before the pandemic.

Take a look at what Fall availability looks like. Maybe some things will be back by then, but those people have booked those trips knowing they might not be.

I hope you are right though. Nothing changes if Disney doesn't experience a negative cash flow response to the changes.

 

[JakeAZ]

I think PP was referring to the DLR price of MaxPass which is $20 per day, per person.

Fair point.

I could be wrong, but I don't see that system coming to WDW. Maxpass doesn't fix anything. $20 extra pp per day will just be seen as a required extra, when you're already investing so much into a WDW vacation. I actually see this rubbing more people the wrong way over something similar to the CL FP offering. You didn't have to buy the CL passes, but if everyone feels they have to pay another $20pp per day, just to get to the bare minimum level....

I see FP packages coming.

Pricing / offerings dependent on the level of accommodations selected.

With more people questioning whether the on-site benefits are worth it or not, this is a 100% foolproof way to get people to continue staying on-site.