So, let's assume FP+ doesn't come back in its old form

[Miffy]

If you still gave Walt your money, that's all they need to know they are doing things correctly. It's crude, indeed, but at some level it's very true. According to Walt, you were happy to visit.

Walt's been printing money for a looooong time. And in recent times, they've been actively squeezing us more and more, trying to find the tipping point of the pocket lining profit / guest drop-off (and other revenue stream) "see-saw". I don't think they've found it yet, even in a global pandemic. I'd be willing to bet that if we can get back to some semblance of normality, everyone chomping at the bit to go back will splurge. In Walt's eyes, that means they are doing it correctly.

I kinda think there are more people than we think, that just show up with a hotel reservation and a ticket, and go to a park and just grab a map and wing it, so none of this stuff really matters to them. WDW is just spending money of merch, buffets, and standing in lines, and that's just what it is. "What's a Fastpass? We can't afford those things!"

This, from my experience, is quite true. I've been in standby lines multiple times when the people next to me either had zero idea that they could use FP (even people staying onsite) or didn't know what FP is. Of course, I tell them how to do this, help with the app, etc. Often people are shocked that this exists and/or is free.

 

[mamaofsix]

For me, the greater problem is not what type of FP system Disney will implement, but whether or not they will do what it takes to deal with their lines and crowds issue in the long run: add a ton more attractions to each park and run attractions at full capacity to decrease waits. This is what they'd do if they actually cared about guest experience.

They need to stop taking 4 years to build every new attraction. Or understaffing attractions to save a buck, resulting in longer waits. Pre-pandemic, these were the major issues and they still are. Express Pass is great idea at Universal. However, line waits are better overall at Univ. because they simply have way more rides to spread out the crowds.

Of our friends and family who have visited Disney in the past decade, 9/10 have been a "one and done" and said they'll never return. "Too expensive, too long of waits." Even with free fp. These same families visit our local theme parks multiple times every year and love it.

Disney has a problem. They're going to have to do a lot more (like post-911) to see their guests return. Even with reduced capacity now, the parks almost never reach that reduced cap. Many days Epcot is a ghost town. They could be making so much more money right now, but won't because the experience is inferior and guests aren't returning.

The issue of unnecessarily long line waits needs to be fixed and that problem is so much more complex than fp.

 

[Miffy]

For me, the greater problem is not what type of FP system Disney will implement, but whether or not they will do what it takes to deal with their lines and crowds issue in the long run: add a ton more attractions to each park and run attractions at full capacity to decrease waits. This is what they'd do if they actually cared about guest experience.

They need to stop taking 4 years to build every new attraction. Or understaffing attractions to save a buck, resulting in longer waits. Pre-pandemic, these were the major issues and they still are. Express Pass is great idea at Universal. However, line waits are better overall at Univ. because they simply have way more rides to spread out the crowds.

Of our friends and family who have visited Disney in the past decade, 9/10 have been a "one and done" and said they'll never return. "Too expensive, too long of waits." Even with free fp. These same families visit our local theme parks multiple times every year and love it.

Disney has a problem. They're going to have to do a lot more (like post-911) to see their guests return. Even with reduced capacity now, the parks almost never reach that reduced cap. Many days Epcot is a ghost town. They could be making so much more money right now, but won't because the experience is inferior and guests aren't returning.

The issue of unnecessarily long line waits needs to be fixed and that problem is so much more complex than fp.

I'm not sure that this is true. Some of us--and I have an AP renewal that's maybe never going to be used and that burned a thousand-dollar-plus hole in my wallet--won't go. Not because of an inferior experience, but because of the pandemic. I'm simply not willing to get sick, or worse, just for a trip to WDW. No matter how safe it is there, I'd still have to navigate getting there. I'm not willing to do this just for a vacation.

 

[mamaofsix]

For those who are saying fp's should only be offered to onsite guests, I can see that. However, estimates are that about 60% of guests are off-site visitors. Disney can't completely alienate that 60% or they'll lose a great deal of revenue.

 

[mamaofsix]

I'm not sure that this is true. Some of us--and I have an AP renewal that's maybe never going to be used and that burned a thousand-dollar-plus hole in my wallet--won't go. Not because of an inferior experience, but because of the pandemic. I'm simply not willing to get sick, or worse, just for a trip to WDW. No matter how safe it is there, I'd still have to navigate getting there. I'm not willing to do this just for a vacation.

Right. So, Disney has the double whammy of guests not going because of a pandemic, but at the same time others not going because of reduced experience. If they brought back normal hours and opened up all of their attractions, they would have way more guests right now.

 

[Renarr]

The questions about the returns of the Fastpass system -- combined with the current state of the pandemic and uncertainty regarding when it will pass -- are part of what has kept us from booking another trip. We really view some kind of system that enables guests to not wait in the queue for hours on end as essential.

Having done the Express passes at Universal for the first time in 2019, I have to say that it was a pretty pleasurable experience. I think there would be some difficulties adapting it for WDW, though.

I know the OP said they don't want Maxpass, but honestly, it is a far better system. Perhaps allow onsite guests the ability to book two FPs at a time and be able to book the first two FPs before arriving at the park, but only at the park for which they have a reservation for?

Those are the only modifications I could see being made to the system, but I would think Disney would want a unified FP system moving forward and it is much fairer to make it based off when the next window of time is available. FP+ and booking months in advance is unacceptable, a lot of people don't want to plan out every minute of their day like that.

Fairness is often in the eye of the beholder.

In my household, the ability to book things out months in advance is the saving grace. We don't book any additional Fastpasses beyond what we book well in advance. We're dealing with a disability situation for our traveling group, and the ability to map out the day well in advance helps us to navigate the tiredness and enjoyment of one of the members of our party. Simply put, without this ability, we'd be hard pressed to go. In any system where there's a race to acquire something the day of, we will lose.

 

[keishashadow]

Mainly because there is more than just the parks at WDW. Golf, water parks, mini golf, Disney Springs, tons more restaurants, etc. Also, some people would rather close a park down than open one up.

Lol preaching to the choir. We are long-haulers, lots of vacation time, pre pandemic tend to visit WDW every other month. Many others out there of our ilk. If we don’t get on an attraction one day, we’ll catch it the next go-round, it’s all good.

Some people also skip entire days & enjoy their resorts, whether it’s because they burned the candle the night before or not. There is no wrong or right way to do a disney vacation. That includes staying onsite or not now that the EE/FP advantage is lessening.

If the hotel occupancy metrics aren’t reaching whatever goal, they will tweak policies to bring people back into the fold or lower the rates via promos.

I could see day where you sleep in a bit after closing down a park the previous night. Have a late breakfast and then head over a water park. Come back to your hotel and then head out to MK for an early dinner to close the park down again. But because you weren't there in the AM for the FP scramble, all that is left, if anything, are the lower tier rides.

Depends, i’ve Seen parks nearly deserted in the last few hours of operation. We all know it’s possible to hop in line before park close and get to ride ‘anything’. Not my cuppa, all about choices

DL is built for first come first serve. The parks and rides are the only reason people visit.

Know many locals who would stop regularly after work for a churro or quick bite to eat then watch the nightly parade. I’m told it’s very common practice

One specific style of touring shouldn't be favored when it comes to the most valuable commodity WDW offers.

Disney is unique in that it triggers very strong reactions to change. People get emotionally drawn into it, tends to skew response.

That’s your, individual take on “the most valuable commodity WDW offers”. Ask ten people and you just might get ten different responses. Probably have been polls here over the years on that exact same subject.

We all favor our way of doing things. One thing i’ve Learned with WDW over the past ahem decades of being a guest is that raging against change is a waste of time. The mouse owns me . IMO if you’re not going to vote with your feet and explore other vacation options, it’s smart to be flexible and work with whatever system they do dole out.

 

[seashoreCM]

a ghost town

If most of the rides have wait times over 30 minutes then the park can be considered quite crowded. Like at least 7 on a scale of 10.

And, outside the park (or in any city), if buses leave guests behind at stops to maintain social distancing inside, then they are running at full capacity and increasing service is justified.

 

[pixiedust2u]

I've been back three times since opening and haven't missed FP at all. So much less stressful, and the lines move so much faster without that sudden stop to let all the FP people ahead of you. Of course there are still the DAS people (which we are when my youngest is with us), but those aren't as frequent. I loved not having to go "well, our FP is in half an hour so we can't do that", now it's "why not" and we do what we want.

I keep seeing this sentiment of "not missing FP" from those like yourself who have visited in recent months, but you didn't miss FP because the park was at 25-35% capacity And remember that is their capacity, so it's more than likely unless you were there on a sold out day, it wasn't even at the max. So I think what it boils down to is not missing the normal crowds which allow you to enjoy not missing FP! While I agree, not rushing to ride to ride, or obsessing over your phone was likely more enjoyable, I wonder if you would have the same positive feelings if you had waited 40-80 minutes in lines all day.

I'm sure they are planning something, whether it be temporary, or permanent. But I can't see them doing nothing as capacity limits increase. They will either have to open more shows and entertainment within parks, or implement virtual ques or a FP like system to ensure that bodies have a place to go other than lines. Increasing time waiting in lines is counterproductive as it mitigates efforts to keep groups of people together for long periods of time. It also isn't very "magical" to be in lines all day when you don't have anything to offset that experience such as amazing firework shows, parades, character experiences etc.

 

[JakeAZ]

IMO if you’re not going to vote with your feet and explore other vacation options, it’s smart to be flexible and work with whatever system they do dole out.

100% agree with this.

We have a rescheduled trip from last year set for this November, but I don't see us doing WDW for many years after that. Regardless of whatever system they revamp to. My kids are 8 / 5 and this is a big 12 person (multi generational trip), so they will hopefully remember it for quite a while. We are very much looking forward to it (since the planning for it started in 2018). We will roll with whatever the offerings are at the time. I'm hopeful things come back by then and if I'm able to pay for things (like a ride package) to make the trip easier / more enjoyable, I will. Would I be willing to spend more money if I knew we were coming back regularly? Probably not.

I believe Disney has a good product, but it's very much their way or the highway. I understand they are a big ship and that's the nature of the beast. It's just too much with them. When I book other vacations, I book the flight, the hotel, maybe a rental car and then we just go. We are in control of our schedule. I also completely understand there are some who love Disney so much, it doesn't matter what changes / restrictions they implement. To each their own. I would never tell someone how to spend their money.

My guess is if we do WDW again it will be the Star Wars resort, but not until both kids are in HS. It would be nice to experience WDW once with them as kids and once with them as teenagers. I've gone as a kid, a teenager and an adult. I hope my kids have as much fun as I did.

I enjoy posting on these boards. People here are nice and helpul and I have really learned a lot. But, I could never see myself posting on a Hawaii board or European trip board to this extent (aside from 1 or 2 informational request posts). That's the nature of Disney though. It really is a lifestyle for a lot of people. I think that's a testament to the Disney product and name.

 

[JakeAZ]

I keep seeing this sentiment of "not missing FP" from those like yourself who have visited in recent months, but you didn't miss FP because the park was at 25-35% capacity And remember that is their capacity, so it's more than likely unless you were there on a sold out day, it wasn't even at the max. So I think what it boils down to is not missing the normal crowds which allow you to enjoy not missing FP! While I agree, not rushing to ride to ride, or obsessing over your phone was likely more enjoyable, I wonder if you would have the same positive feelings if you had waited 40-80 minutes in lines all day.

I'm sure they are planning something, whether it be temporary, or permanent. But I can't see them doing nothing as capacity limits increase. They will either have to open more shows and entertainment within parks, or implement virtual ques or a FP like system to ensure that bodies have a place to go other than lines. Increasing time waiting in lines is counterproductive as it mitigates efforts to keep groups of people together for long periods of time. It also isn't very "magical" to be in lines all day when you don't have anything to offset that experience such as amazing firework shows, parades, character experiences etc.

Agree with all of this.

 

[finedice]

Free FP+ is a good thing for Disney. The original purpose was to free up time for people to be able to spend money eating and shopping. If I had to wager, they will probably keep it free, and close to the same system. I know I spend a lot more on swag and a lot more time shopping and dining because of FP. I also know I would absolutely hate going to WDW without it.

 

[Sarahslay]

I keep seeing this sentiment of "not missing FP" from those like yourself who have visited in recent months, but you didn't miss FP because the park was at 25-35% capacity And remember that is their capacity, so it's more than likely unless you were there on a sold out day, it wasn't even at the max. So I think what it boils down to is not missing the normal crowds which allow you to enjoy not missing FP! While I agree, not rushing to ride to ride, or obsessing over your phone was likely more enjoyable, I wonder if you would have the same positive feelings if you had waited 40-80 minutes in lines all day.

I'm sure they are planning something, whether it be temporary, or permanent. But I can't see them doing nothing as capacity limits increase. They will either have to open more shows and entertainment within parks, or implement virtual ques or a FP like system to ensure that bodies have a place to go other than lines. Increasing time waiting in lines is counterproductive as it mitigates efforts to keep groups of people together for long periods of time. It also isn't very "magical" to be in lines all day when you don't have anything to offset that experience such as amazing firework shows, parades, character experiences etc.

I was back during holiday weeks where there was more people/closer to capacity than other weeks. I’ve been in HS when it’s completely at capacity. There have been long lines, and it’s been close to the same capacity as other times I’ve been to Disney pre-Covid. All that to say, given all that: I don’t miss FP. The lines are long but they move, and you 100% can still wait in lines of 40-80 minutes all day if you want because they have still been plentiful. I still don’t miss FP. I know they’re probably thinking about something to do with FP when things are back to somewhat normal. I won’t mind if they come back in any form, but, I still don’t miss FP. I am an AP who goes to the parks about 6 times a year on average, I’ve been in all kinds of crowds, I know how to compare right now with pre-Covid crowds.....and I still don’t miss FP.

 

[disneypharm]

I was back during holiday weeks where there was more people/closer to capacity than other weeks. I’ve been in HS when it’s completely at capacity. There have been long lines, and it’s been close to the same capacity as other times I’ve been to Disney pre-Covid. All that to say, given all that: I don’t miss FP. The lines are long but they move, and you 100% can still wait in lines of 40-80 minutes all day if you want because they have still been plentiful. I still don’t miss FP. I know they’re probably thinking about something to do with FP when things are back to somewhat normal. I won’t mind if they come back in any form, but, I still don’t miss FP. I am an AP who goes to the parks about 6 times a year on average, I’ve been in all kinds of crowds, I know how to compare right now with pre-Covid crowds.....and I still don’t miss FP.

Sorry, confused, so you prefer to wait in line with large crowds, but don't miss FP?!!

 

[pixiedust2u]

I was back during holiday weeks where there was more people/closer to capacity than other weeks. I’ve been in HS when it’s completely at capacity. There have been long lines, and it’s been close to the same capacity as other times I’ve been to Disney pre-Covid. All that to say, given all that: I don’t miss FP. The lines are long but they move, and you 100% can still wait in lines of 40-80 minutes all day if you want because they have still been plentiful. I still don’t miss FP. I know they’re probably thinking about something to do with FP when things are back to somewhat normal. I won’t mind if they come back in any form, but, I still don’t miss FP. I am an AP who goes to the parks about 6 times a year on average, I’ve been in all kinds of crowds, I know how to compare right now with pre-Covid crowds.....and I still don’t miss FP.

Got it. I still think for other's who have expressed similarly though, my guess is many of them would not be as content with no FP option if waiting in longer lines. Sounds like you don't mind long lines, I'm going to assume that most other folks would. I would think this is especially true of families with young children. I think it also matters that you are a AP holder, and go "6 times a year on average". If I'm someone who makes it to WDW once a year or less, I'm not going to be okay with waiting in long lines to get on an handful of rides because I know I won't be back for years! When you go multiple times a year, if you only get on a few rides, there's satisfaction in know you can just get to it next time. For someone who doesn't know when they may get the opportunity or finances to return I think they'd be pretty unhappy with a 120$ ticket that got them on a handful of rides, and hours spent in line.

 

[LSUfan4444]

You can throw my in that pile of people that doesnt miss FP one bit. My last two trips were over holiday weekends since the July reopening (Labor Day and Thanksgiving) and only twice did we wait longer than 35 minutes for anything. Flight of Passage after a mid morning arrival and Mine Train about 30 minutes before close. Even beyond wait times, it was liberating to not have to plan it, think about it, move things as hours changed or refurbs were scheduled, adjust for closures or weather, etc. Not having a FP didnt mean that _______ could not be done today because we didnt arrive for rope drop...maybe we had to wait a bit longer but waiting 60 minutes for FoP at 10am is not like waiting 100+ minutes.

We are glad to see park hopping back and we can still use rope drop and closing time for the shortest waits and would not lose any sleep if we never saw any form of FP or express pass again (outside of VIP tours and such).

 

[LSUfan4444]

You can throw my in that pile of people that doesnt miss FP one bit. My last two trips were over holiday weekends since the July reopening (Labor Day and Thanksgiving) and only twice did we wait longer than 35 minutes for anything. Flight of Passage after a mid morning arrival and Mine Train about 30 minutes before close.

We are glad to see park hopping back and we can still use rope drop and closing time for the shortest waits and would not lose any sleep if we never saw any form of FP or express pass again (outside of VIP tours and such).

Sorry, confused, so you prefer to wait in line with large crowds, but don't miss FP?!!

I think it's important to remember that long lines don't necessarily mean large crowds or extended wait times. My interpretation of what was being said is that if you wanted to wait 60 minutes for attractions all day maybe you could but you certainly don't have to. Even at some of the busiest days the lines are long but they move quick and for the majority of attractions the maximum standby time has drastically decreased.

 

[wdw&sonny]

Agreed. These decisions aren’t made haphazardly. And if Disney’s decisions have any unintended negative consequences, they adjust. Remember when they tried to charge for fuel rod refills? In the 50 years WDW has been around, rules and policies and perks and offerings have been constantly changing. Things are added, then no longer offered. Then new things are added or taken away. And they will continue to do this based on the data they receive, the feedback from guests, the money they make, etc.

This is why I try not have any knee jerk reactions when Disney makes a seemingly controversial decision when it comes to perks or offerings. They have A LOT of data to help them make those decisions. That’s not to say Disney can’t mess up or make a bad decision. It’s just understanding that the company is dynamic and always changing and tweaking its policies and offerings.

Whatever FP system they roll out, I will give it a shot and experience it for myself. But Disney won’t really know how a paid FP system will affect them financially until they do it and see the results unfold.

This!
Fun to speculate. But, WDW is a living thing...always changing, never finished.
Incentives, prices, perks are always changing. On-site resort prices vary all the time, and we don't really notice...Free dining, extra days, early reservations for dining or FPs. These are constantly changing. Disney will always be dynamic, adjusting as necessary to maximize profit while maximizing the guest experience.

 

[hergosling]

It's fun to speculate and everyone's opinions will always differ, particularly because everyone comes from a different background with different financial situations, a different degree of love for Disney, different tipping points, etc. Disney will never make or keep everyone happy.

My thoughts:
Disney does have to do something, and now is the time to do it. Businesses nationwide are making changes, and they are using Covid as their excuse to do it. Disney isn't the only aspect of our lives that's seeing changes. They are using this time wisely, no doubt. I do think some form of paid fast pass is coming.

Crowd control is an issue in my opinion. I think it's turning away guests and leaving a bad taste in their mouth after having spent "all that money". I know it was becoming a problem for my family. On our last trip, even fast pass lines were seeing wait times upwards of 30 minutes. I would be willing to pay more to wait less. I fall into that category. But like others have said, it has to be worth it.

Maybe people don't miss FP+ right now, but I'm in the camp that when crowd/capacity levels increase, wait times will tick up and be unbearable. 20 minutes in line is one thing. 60+ minutes in line after line is not my idea of a vacation. We dish out quite a bit for our yearly Disney trips at deluxe resorts, but we'll start to choose elsewhere if crowds aren't controlled. It's not even about the money, it's just getting too busy for us. I'm willing to pay even more for a better experience the parks, and I've got to believe Disney knows this.

Will Disney eventually price out some families? Yup. Many families already are. Does Disney care? likely not. In my opinion, it makes more sense for them to cater to the guests willing to pay more. If they price out some guests, that solves some of the crowd issue and they in turn make more off the guests they keep- making more money off of fewer people while allowing them to lower operating expenses at the same time. Would it hurt them if they closed a few of the Value Resorts? My guess is no and I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see them all reopen.

My guess is going foward Fast Pass will be some form of hybrid system where there is still an included "free" option but then tiers of packages available for a premium- likely tied to on-site, value-moderate-deluxe resort level, etc. Like others have said, if you're paying for a deluxe resort, you get access to a more deluxe experience in the parks, etc. I do think it will come at a premium price though (and logically so, you can't have it be too affordable or everyone will do it and then it's pointless).

 

[Disneyfan754321]

We were in line for the safari at AK when one of the trucks broke down... we were in the next group boarding when we were told the "ride" was closed and they gave us a multi attraction pass ( fast pass) it was really nice just walking up to most rides with out a wait.. it would be awesome if everyone received one of these that we could use during the day.
It had restrictions like you cant use it on the really popular rides 7d, add and avatar etc.