So Foodies...How is quality now at WDW?

[write2caro]

I get what some of you are saying, I realy do, but Disney must not agree with how important most park-goers think their vacation FOOD experience is or things would be different, I assume. My guess is that Disney probably figures that most people for whom food is a central part of their vacation would choose an NYC or Paris vacation, not a theme park one. I think a lot of the food probably is overpriced, but it is a location thing. I just expect it, and my vacation experience doesn't get dampened by food expectations. I guess that's all I mean - I don't make it a central part of my vacation when I'm at WDW. If food is important enough to someone, they can just rent a car and go offsite to a place that specializes in attracting you there for its food, not primarily for a cartoon mouse and his friends! Just trying to give my 2 cents and have a little fun with it. Hope that's ok.

 

[wendy46001]

The "it's a theme park" argument would be more valid if WDW was serving food like a theme park.

I agree....also over the past years disney has made a big push to bring in the foodie crowd....with Food n Wine and signature dining...

 

[write2caro]

I agree....also over the past years disney has made a big push to bring in the foodie crowd....with Food n Wine and signature dining...

OK - let me ask this - I really don't know the answer and you guys probably do. If you stick to only F&W or signature dining, do you feel like you get the experience you expect and get the appropriate quality for your money? Do you find that satisfying, or is that a disappointment as well? For instance, the statement about V&A rivaling IALW surprised me, so I'm really curious. I have never been to F&W but will be there this next trip.

 

[raidermatt]

If you stick to only F&W or signature dining, do you feel like you get the experience you expect and get the appropriate quality for your money? Do you find that satisfying, or is that a disappointment as well?

I'm not a foodie, so it doesn't bother me too much. But when I stop and think about it, no, I don't feel like I get the appropriate quality for the money.

WDW has theme parks, yes, but its not like any other theme park environment. WDW's main competitors aren't even theme parks, they are other family vacation destinations.

The majority of WDW guests didn't decide to go to WDW instead of Six Flags. They chose WDW instead of Hawaii, NYC, Yellowstone, San Francisco, Europe, etc. Disney gets great benefit from being a resort destination and not just a theme park. At the same time, that comes with certain expectations.

 

[wendy46001]

OK - let me ask this - I really don't know the answer and you guys probably do. If you stick to only F&W or signature dining, do you feel like you get the experience you expect and get the appropriate quality for your money? Do you find that satisfying, or is that a disappointment as well? For instance, the statement about V&A rivaling IALW surprised me, so I'm really curious. I have never been to F&W but will be there this next trip.

F&W dinners are a must for us…we just skip most of the booths now as things that were once two or three dollars run six to seven…and have magically shrunk in size….but the cooking demos and wine classes are still great...The PFTS is wonderful...and i highly recommend the brew masters dinner ...Also I’d put V&A up there with one of the best meals I’ve ever experienced...As for signature dining...that’s where the disappointment comes in...I used to be worth it...now its hit or miss...and at those prices a miss shouldn’t happen…. I agree with whoever said more restaurants should be excluded from DDP that they can keep the quality

 

[write2caro]

F&W dinners are a must for us…we just skip most of the booths now as things that were once two or three dollars run six to seven…and have magically shrunk in size….but the cooking demos and wine classes are still great...The PFTS is wonderful...and i highly recommend the brew masters dinner ...Also I’d put V&A up there with one of the best meals I’ve ever experienced...As for signature dining...that’s where the disappointment comes in...I used to be worth it...now its hit or miss...and at those prices a miss shouldn’t happen…. I agree with whoever said more restaurants should be excluded from DDP that they can keep the quality

I see your points, I really do. Maybe if fewer of us just lowered our expectations while at WDW the quality would improve! Supply/demand, I guess!

I have been considering some of the cooking demos I've read about. Do you know when we can expect that schedule of events out, and is this particular board the best one to find that out on? I haven't done enough research on that yet...
__
Apologies... just did a search and found the expected release dates for the schedule.

 

[shovan]

OK - let me ask this - I really don't know the answer and you guys probably do. If you stick to only F&W or signature dining, do you feel like you get the experience you expect and get the appropriate quality for your money? Do you find that satisfying, or is that a disappointment as well? For instance, the statement about V&A rivaling IALW surprised me, so I'm really curious. I have never been to F&W but will be there this next trip.

It depends on if you are referring to the events at the F&W or just the booths in WS. While the food booths are very good & usually worth the $3-$6charged don't expect "fine dining." It's a booth in a theme park after all. Now, the F&W events such as the Party for the Senses, Grand Evenings, Food & Wine Pairing Luncheons are excellent! The chefs from the WDW restaurants really step it up during F&W. And there are so many visiting chefs from all over the world at different events, that I don't think you will be disappointed.

As far as signature dining goes, something is changing. For instance, we have had some of the best steaks at Yachtsman in the past, but our last visit was a major disappointment. The steak was not of the same quality, potatoes were served cold. A tuna tartar that previously had a beautiful presentation was served in a bowl and just looked sad. I think that is the issue here, that the restaurants we've visited before & had wonderful meals seem to be on the decline. I have not expected superior meals in the parks for years, but I think the resort restaurants should be able to produce a better product.

 

[jarrdisney]

For instance, the statement about V&A rivaling IALW surprised me, so I'm really curious. I have never been to F&W but will be there this next trip.

Not that they are the be all end all, but AAA has awarded both V&A's and IALW with the coveted 5 diamond award for years.

 

[write2caro]

It's a booth in a theme park after all.

Now, the F&W events such as the Party for the Senses, Grand Evenings, Food & Wine Pairing Luncheons are excellent! The chefs from the WDW restaurants really step it up during F&W. And there are so many visiting chefs from all over the world at different events, that I don't think you will be disappointed.

After wendy46001's last post I started researching this a bit and the Party for the Senses sounds wonderful. It was on Sat's last year - is this always the case? I have a Sat open as far as my ADR's are concerned and I'd love to plan on PFTS now that I know some details about it.

the restaurants we've visited before & had wonderful meals seem to be on the decline. I have not expected superior meals in the parks for years, but I think the resort restaurants should be able to produce a better product.

I can understand that. I get so sad when one of my favorite local restaurants starts to disappoint and go downhill. My biggest disappointment is when a favorite tuna tartar goes south, so I feel that pain!! Guess I haven't been to WDW enough to have had that experience yet. I think I "get" you guys a bit more now!

Oh, and I didn't realize that about V&A's rating. My husband and I had reservations there on a trip way back when (before kids!!) that got canceled. Maybe I should book that for this next trip... thank goodness for sitters!

 

[QueueCT]

Not that they are the be all end all, but AAA has awarded both V&A's and IALW with the coveted 5 diamond award for years.

I would agree that V&A and IALW are at the same level. The service edge clearly goes to IALW but the French Bordello decorations bother me quite a bit so I prefer the ambience at V&A.

Someone before mentioned prices so let's look at CG (not my favorite but makes a reasonable benchmark). Appetizers are $11 with the exception of the foie gras at $16 and lobster at $19. I find the foie gras price reasonable and the appetizer prices slightly above average for a good restaurant. Main course range from $23 for pasta to $34 for the filet with most clustered in the $28-$30 range. Again, not way out of line (except for the filet IMO) but still above average. Desserts are $10. So, for a 3 course meal we're looking at $50 pp before tax, tip and drinks.

If I were to go to Obelisk in DC, a very good restaurant but not at the pinnacle, a 4 course meal would cost $60. Gary Danko in SF would be $61 for a 3 course meal (an excellent restaurant). Overall, prices at Disney are not too far out of line with other dining establishments in major cities.

Is the food quality comparable? I think it's slipped a bit. But worse than the slip in quality is the decline in imagination. The similarity of menus is a big concern to me. Is the service comparable? Not even close. With few exceptions, the service in Disney restaurants is well below average. I have had more than my share of inept waiters there.

 

[shovan]

After wendy46001's last post I started researching this a bit and the Party for the Senses sounds wonderful. It was on Sat's last year - is this always the case? I have a Sat open as far as my ADR's are concerned and I'd love to plan on PFTS now that I know some details about it.

I can understand that. I get so sad when one of my favorite local restaurants starts to disappoint and go downhill. My biggest disappointment is when a favorite tuna tartar goes south, so I feel that pain!! Guess I haven't been to WDW enough to have had that experience yet. I think I "get" you guys a bit more now!

Oh, and I didn't realize that about V&A's rating. My husband and I had reservations there on a trip way back when (before kids!!) that got canceled. Maybe I should book that for this next trip... thank goodness for sitters!

From what I can remember the PFTS is always on Saturday night.

The one we attended last year was wonderful. It was really nice to be able to walk around sample the food & wines and get to chat with the Chefs & Wine Reps.! We had a real treat last year, seated at our table was the wife and friends of one of the visiting chefs. The chef was Jean-Robert de Cavel owner/chef at Pigall's in Cincinnati. He had a sauteed duck breast that was out of this world. Jean-Robert came sit with us near the end of the evening & I guess all the French people know other, because Pierre Sparr of Pierre Sparr winery also joined us bringing a with him several bottles of wine! Believe me, we felt like royalty! It was a night to remember!

 

[MermaidsMom]

WDW has theme parks, yes, but its not like any other theme park environment. WDW's main competitors aren't even theme parks, they are other family vacation destinations.

The majority of WDW guests didn't decide to go to WDW instead of Six Flags. They chose WDW instead of Hawaii, NYC, Yellowstone, San Francisco, Europe, etc. Disney gets great benefit from being a resort destination and not just a theme park. At the same time, that comes with certain expectations.

Exactly!! WDW is a destination unlike any other, not just an "amusement park". They offer what can be considered semi-fine dining on a very large scale 365 days a year and I think they are doing a very good job in most cases. We are very lucky on this board to be able to read each others reviews and be able to choose the best places to make our reservations! I travel between Washington DC and Chicago frequently and absolutely love eating in both places....but I also had a great spring break trip to WDW last week with many wonderful meals and very hard working servers. I was lucky to be able to be there!! The previous posts mention the French restaurant in EPCOT in a negative way, we did not eat there this trip because we had negative experiences there in the past. It's a shame they have not improved it, it is such a beautiful spot!

 

[southjerseymom]

Both DH and I have spent the majority of our careers in the food and beverage industry. We are "foodies" but we like a greasy burger and some wings with a cold one just as much as the next guy! That said.. we are going back to the World in early May and here are a few of my thoughts.
1. We have always been disappointed in the expectations versus the reality of Disney food. It never quite lives up to the hype. I kid my friends in the industry that the popularity of food shows has made everyone a "foodie" and raised the importance of food to an unsustainable level. In the end it is just food. Good or bad it shouldn't make or break a vacation.
2. I hate the DDP. Mostly, because it hurts folks like me. I don't know 180 days in advance what I am going to want to eat during my vacation. I don't know what park I will be in...or even if I will be hungry! I would like to be able to walk up to a few restaurants and ask if they have availability...but this darn plan has made it next to impossible to have any spontaneity.
3. DH and I were just making a couple ADR's for our upcoming trip. Mostly because the kiddles want at least one character dining. But for the most part I am trying to figure out which CS have enough that I can try to get a few healthy meals in the kids and just enjoy whatever.
Thanks for reading my rant!
WL May 2005
Poly November 2005
Beach Club May 2006
Disney Wonder 2006/Poly
POR May 2007

 

[tarheelmjfan]

1. We have always been disappointed in the expectations versus the reality of Disney food. It never quite lives up to the hype. I kid my friends in the industry that the popularity of food shows has made everyone a "foodie" and raised the importance of food to an unsustainable level. In the end it is just food. Good or bad it shouldn't make or break a vacation.

I think the word foodie is probably overused. Actually, I don't really see a need to label a person's desire for good food. I'm not really interested in whether or not we're considered in the "foodie" camp or not. What I do know is that after reading many reviews, we know whose opinions closely mirror our own & whose don't. For us, a great dining experience simply doesn't include buffet dining. Those who list buffet &/or family style restaurants in their top 10 favorites obviously have differing tastes from us. That doesn't necessarily make either right or wrong, but we quickly know that our dining styles differ & to move on.

Also, I'm in the camp with those who don't think people should lower their expectations because WDW is a Theme Park. WDW is a resort destination, not just a theme park. They heavily market DVC, as well as making an effort to draw in adults without kids. Most adults travelling sans children aren't interested in going to the same place year after year knowing they're going to have to eat mediocre "theme park" food for a week. Many years ago, WDW offered just that. They quickly realized they were missing out on a large population of people who just aren't interest in a week of burgers & hotdogs, even if they are getting to have fun riding rides & collecting character autographs. One day of that is okay. The thing is, WDW doesn't want you coming for just a day in the parks. They want you staying on their property for a week or more. How many people go to typical theme parks 7 days in a row? Not me! WDW knows that. So, they finally realized they needed more than Mickey to bring in repeat guests. One logical transformation was to offer those people who refused to eat CS for a week a nicer dining experience. They also saw an opportunity to attract more locals who had no interest in going to WDW just to eat a burger. Soon they were using this new dining concept as a major selling point. People were willing to buy into the idea, & weren't disappointed. The problem is, they are now wallowing in their success, & think they can cutback without sacrificing numbers. Apparently, it's working for them. Those who argue, "It's a theme park. We should expect to pay a ridiculous amount for mediocre food.", are proof of that. The question is, how far can they let it slide, before they're affected monetarily? I'm sure one factor will be how many people started dining there when they were focused on offering a more upscale dining experience. At that time, they did it well & people will begin to see a difference. Another factor will be the number of people who refuse to eat typical theme park food for multiple days. They'll also take into consideration the number of "Once in a Lifetime" guests that visit annually, & will most likely be more forgiving. Then there's those who just aren't that concerned about what they eat on vacation. I suppose they'll then decide what, if anything, they need to do to attempt to woo those who are becoming disillusioned with the current direction WDW dining seems to be taking. It may be they have enough guests in the later categories to negate the other groups.

FWIW, I don't think it's necessary to accept overpriced, mediocre food just because you want to have a theme park based vacation. Some of the theme parks appear to be making an attempt to go in the opposite direction. They're making a concerted effort to improve their dining experiences. One such destination just so happens to be not so far from the Mouse.

 

[southjerseymom]

When I referred to myself as a "foodie" I meant that I had spent years in both the study and service of fine foods in both management and service positions. I managed fine dining restaurants and I was on the "floor" in a service position. I believe the 30 plus years I spent in that career has given me a reasonable understanding of both food and restaurants. What I meant in my post is that the number of people dining in Disney has substantially increased in recent years. Disney has recognized this "resort" appeal and came up with some good dining options. Disney deals with incredibly high volume 365 days a year and I think they do an admirable job. They appeal to as many people as they can in each of their different venues. I enjoyed my recent dinner at California Grill and I look forward to dining at Blue Zoo during my upcoming trip. That said Cali Grill was excellent but didn't knock my socks off. I expect that Blue Zoo will be better but I have lowered my expectations about all food in the World. The only reason for that is the difficulty of appealing to so many different people with different expectations, along constant high volume, and the difficulty of executing highly personalized and skilled menus and presentations under those conditions. Disney does well with the tools they have but IMHO they never consistently hit it out of the park. When I pay over $200 for dinner in restaurants outside of Disney I expect a home run EVERY time. I love to eat at Disney but I just don't expect that much and I am pleasantly surprised when I get a "home run".

 

[hmp2z]

Heather, Please give us the details on this "inside" info! Is it just the basic cost vs profit line or something else? Would love to know what upper management is thinking!

Most of what I've heard is basically about profit and reeling people in; the free dining period is a very easy way for WDW to get people to stay on-property in what used to be the off season. As you can see from their recent advertising campaigns, the focus has been to bring in lower-income families, and the DDP and free dining are a good way to do this. The area managers we've spoken with lament the inevitable standardization and decline in quality that follow the DDP mandate, but there's nothing they can do about it. On the positive side, servers who used to get stiffed by the international guests are at least guaranteed a decent tip. But for us, as diners, the quality definitely has suffered.

We eat primarily at signature restaurants, so that's where we've noticed the largest impact. However, we do have a few CS places that we enjoy, like Tusker House, and we've DEFINITELY noticed the impact there, more's the pity.

To follow up on the V&A's/IALW thread, we used to live in NYC and definitely rank V&A's higher than Jean Georges. It is, hands down, the best restaurant we've ever been to. La Toque in Napa Valley, Gary Danko in San Fran - those aren't really in the same league at V&A's. We're trying Thomas Keller's Per Se for the first time this May, and we have high hopes, since from what we've read, it seems to be in the same category as V&A's. But V&A's is one of the top dining experiences in the nation; just by virtue of having this restaurant, WDW set itself higher than any other theme park in the nation, from a culinary standpoint.

Cheers!
Heather W

 

[madcoco]

What she said. Great post Heather.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

When I referred to myself as a "foodie" I meant that I had spent years in both the study and service of fine foods in both management and service positions. I managed fine dining restaurants and I was on the "floor" in a service position. I believe the 30 plus years I spent in that career has given me a reasonable understanding of both food and restaurants. What I meant in my post is that the number of people dining in Disney has substantially increased in recent years. Disney has recognized this "resort" appeal and came up with some good dining options. Disney deals with incredibly high volume 365 days a year and I think they do an admirable job. They appeal to as many people as they can in each of their different venues. I enjoyed my recent dinner at California Grill and I look forward to dining at Blue Zoo during my upcoming trip. That said Cali Grill was excellent but didn't knock my socks off. I expect that Blue Zoo will be better but I have lowered my expectations about all food in the World. The only reason for that is the difficulty of appealing to so many different people with different expectations, along constant high volume, and the difficulty of executing highly personalized and skilled menus and presentations under those conditions. Disney does well with the tools they have but IMHO they never consistently hit it out of the park. When I pay over $200 for dinner in restaurants outside of Disney I expect a home run EVERY time. I love to eat at Disney but I just don't expect that much and I am pleasantly surprised when I get a "home run".

If you're referring to my post, it wasn't my intention to offend anyone. I just think the term "foodie" sounds a bit pretentious coming from me. That said, I don't think it takes a long list of food related credentials to know exceptional food, when you experience it. We look at food purely from a quality standpoint. I couldn't care less how the restaurant pulls it off, but if I'm paying for quality & being led to believe the food is fine dining, that's what I expect. If they can't create it consistentially, they shouldn't lead people to believe they can. Tell me ahead of time that I'm going to pay for fine dining, but receive mediocre food. I've eaten at many restaurants that serve a fairly high volume & a quality product. When I dine at a WDW restaurant the only volume that should come into play, is the amount of people that particular restaurant serves. IMHO, how many meals Flying Fish serves shouldn't affect the experience I have at Jiko. Mass produced meals at CS restaurants are a different story. I don't expect a really high quality. I'm also not paying for one. I suppose we all have different expectations. Mine are based solely from the standpoint of a patron.

But V&A's is one of the top dining experiences in the nation; just by virtue of having this restaurant, WDW set itself higher than any other theme park in the nation, from a culinary standpoint.

I agree to a certain extent. WDW definitely still has enough good restaurants that combined with V&A gives them a clear advantage over any other theme park. However, if the better restaurants start to show a substantial decline, I'd take 4 or 5 great restaurants at one destination over 1 exceptional restaurant any time. On the other hand, I definitely agree that V&A would win from a local standpoint. Locals aren't a captive audience.

 

[mmcguire]

I'm not singling anyone out here - these are very common comments.

Seems as the dining plan is the scapegoaot for everything - does anyone have proof of this, or budget cutbacks? Just curious how anyone can prove this - it's not information a Fortune 500 company would share. As far as I see, these are just assumptions. (not by you, but lots of folks.)

How exactly could someone prove this? Bar graphs? Powerpoint presentations? P&L reports? Doubtful anyone here CAN prove this, nor can they prove that increased security costs have caused airline prices to increase - they see A and B and draw a correlation.

Unless someone on the DIS sits on the board of directors and hears the decisions being made, or WDW releases a statement, all we can do is speculate. This is Marketing 101 -- the DDP is a loss-leader meant to increase hotel occupancy and ticket sales, and in order to decrease the losses, corners are cut and cheaper suppliers are sought.

 

[bavaria]

I just have to say that I am not expecting The Inn at Little Washington or Alain Ducasse when I sit down at Bistro de Paris!! JMHO!

Perhaps you don't, but I do expect quality from the three gentlemen who gave their name to the restaurant and Chefs de France: Paul Bocuse, Roger Verge, and Gaston LeNotre

When I trained in the kitchen in Germany, Paul Bocuse was our idol. I have had in past an excellent meal at Bistro de Paris, in fact one of the best I have ever eaten in America.

I too have seen a decline in the quality of table service food at WDW, and standardization of menus. I suspect that this is due to the low food cost demanded by the DDP. I can assure you that planning menus is a challenge when food cost drops below a reasonable expectation.

The good news is on a recent trip we did try several locations which had fallen off our list, with reasonable results. Some, like Spoodles, however, had an even shorter menu than before.

And for the record, I have never eaten on the DDP, and I judge a meal by the quality, not the quantity of the food.