Smoking Etiquette Question

[pugdog]

U.S. Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona today issued a comprehensive scientific report which concludes that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

The report, The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke, finds that even brief secondhand smoke exposure can cause immediate harm. The report says the only way to protect nonsmokers from the dangerous chemicals in secondhand smoke is to eliminate smoking indoors.

What part of no risk free level is hard to understand? and even BRIEF exposure?

can, verb.

1. Used to indicate possibility or probability: I wonder if my long lost neighbor can still be alive. Such things can and do happen.
2. Used to indicate that which is permitted, as by conscience or feelings: One can hardly blame you for being upset.
3. Used to indicate probability or possibility under the specified circumstances: They can hardly have intended to do that.

Why pick on the word CAN? Can you fix a probability to it? No nobody knows for sure what the odds are of reacting to second hand smoke. But do you really want to play the lottery to find out? More and more research is proving that it is as bad or worse then what the smokers are inhaling themselves.

I have had several patients that "can" and "have" been put into a life threating asthma attack. And each time an asthmatic has to have a breathing tube placed in them their survival rate goes way down. After only the 5th time the survival rate is only 10%, yes 10%. Do you want to be the person who set them off? I think most people would say no.

 

[freckles and boo]

Even in the instance given, it's the responsibility of the asthmatic to avoid the cigarette smoke.

Easier said than done, especially when people SMOKE WHERE THEY AREN'T SUPPOSED TO! I made comments earlier about indoor smoke sticking to every surface long after the cigarette is gone. Even outdoors, where the after-effects dissipate in the breeze, walking through someone's personal cloud of pollution does aggravate my asthma. (Note the emphasis on the word DOES - not CAN). Unfortunately you can't predict where people are going to smoke and simply avoid them. And don't even get me started on those who flick their butts wherever and consider the entire world their ashtray (my first ever Dis Flame!) To you considerate smokers out there who smoke in designated areas and actually use ashtrays, THANK YOU!!!

 

[Planogirl]

I don't smoke but I don't mind if others do outdoors. Walking past a smoker and getting a brief whiff of smoke is not big deal to me.

What really bothers me is the extreme air pollution that our area deals with from auto exhausts. I wish that people were as much up in arms about that as they are about a few seconds of cigarette smoke.

 

[NewJersey]

I LOVE NJ's Clean air Act or whatever it's called. No indoor smoking at all anywhere, except Casinos (which I think is wrong).

I love going to bars or clubs or restaurants or bowling alleys and not have to worry about being subject to that disgusting habit.

 

[Sleepy]

New Jersey, the entire country of Italy has that law.

 

[bimshire]

To the poster who stated that it was unreasonable to expect a smoker to have to get fully dressed in the morning to go off and have a smoke, I have to disagree. What's unreasonable is to expect non-smokers to suck up our leftovers. And I'm not so sure anyone appreciates catching someone in their boxers outside their door puffing away...! Put some clothes on already!

Well said!

 

[bimshire]

New Jersey, the entire country of Italy has that law.

No delay for statewide smoking ban in Colorado.
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_3972452

 

[Luv'sTink]

No delay for statewide smoking ban in Colorado.
http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_3972452

New Jersey, the entire country of Italy has that law.

Washington has a ban also, except Indian casino's. You can not smoke withing 25 feet of an entrance.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why pick on the word CAN? Can you fix a probability to it?

Nope. I'm just pointing out that even in this extensive, 670-page* report, the Surgeon General will not state unequivocally that second-hand smoke absolutely causes the listed conditions, just that it is a "possibility or probability"

Even outdoors, where the after-effects dissipate in the breeze, walking through someone's personal cloud of pollution does aggravate my asthma. (Note the emphasis on the word DOES - not CAN).

That's yourasthma. I'm not saying walking through a 'cloud' of cigarette smoke won't affect every asthmatic the same way. But even in an outdoor place where smoking is restricted to certain areas and where you'd expect smokers to be abiding by those rules, the person who is affected by the smoke is responsible for avoiding the smoke. Not everyone is aware of the smoking areas at Disney, not all Guests visit from countries that have the United States' attitude about smoking...


All those anti-smoking laws apply INdoors. Even in the strictest of countries or states (okay, except maybe some communities in California), smoking is still allowed outside.

 

[DisneyJen0504]

At the AKL my hubby and I smoked in the room because we requested a smoking room but didn't get one.

Real nice.

 

[pugdog]

Nope. I'm just pointing out that even in this extensive, 670-page* report, the Surgeon General will not state unequivocally that second-hand smoke absolutely causes the listed conditions, just that it is a "possibility or probability"

U.S. Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona today issued a comprehensive scientific report which concludes that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke.

What part of no risk free level do you not understand??

That's yourasthma. I'm not saying walking through a 'cloud' of cigarette smoke won't affect every asthmatic the same way. But even in an outdoor place where smoking is restricted to certain areas and where you'd expect smokers to be abiding by those rules, the person who is affected by the smoke is responsible for avoiding the smoke. Not everyone is aware of the smoking areas at Disney, not all Guests visit from countries that have the United States' attitude about smoking...

Why do you feel it is the asthmatics fault for walking there? Most of the other posters have been talking about smokers clearly smoking where they shouldn't be. Don't the smokers also have to make sure they are smoking in the correct place?? Thats the problem with todays world no self responceability on any ones account. Why can't people start taking responceability for their own actions.

 

[dcentity2000]

I see no reason why anybody should suffer in any way because of another's drug addiction.



Rich::

 

[freckles and boo]

That's yourasthma. I'm not saying walking through a 'cloud' of cigarette smoke won't affect every asthmatic the same way. But even in an outdoor place where smoking is restricted to certain areas and where you'd expect smokers to be abiding by those rules, the person who is affected by the smoke is responsible for avoiding the smoke. Not everyone is aware of the smoking areas at Disney, not all Guests visit from countries that have the United States' attitude about smoking...

QUOTE]

Those are not sound arguments. That is the same as saying I should avoid walking in dark alleys because I am responsible for whatever happens should someone commit a crime against me. Frankly, I don't like to compare inconsiderate smokers to rapists and muggers, but if you are going to use this argument then that becomes the parallel. The person committing the violation is RESPONSIBLE, not the victim. Disney World is not a dark alley and I should be able to reasonably expect a clean, safe, smoke-free environment outside of the designated smoking areas. Ultimately, of course, I am forced by circumstances to make every effort to avoid smoke because others can't be relied upon to follow the rules. Kinda p*sses me off!

As for international guests at Disney, they are visitors in this country and we welcome them. I truly love meeting people from all over. However, they must be expected to abide by the same rules and restrictions as the natives. If foreign guests aren't aware of the rules, then it is Disney's responsibility to communicate their smoking policies in advance in clear language. Many foreign visitors do their homework and are well aware of the restrictions.

 

[arminnie]

I see no reason why anybody should suffer in any way because of another's drug addiction.

I totally agree with you. But unfortunately that's what addiction is all about - it overpowers everything else. People who are addicts will do almost anything to satisfy their addiction.

 

[pugdog]

All those anti-smoking laws apply INdoors. Even in the strictest of countries or states (okay, except maybe some communities in California), smoking is still allowed outside.

Actually not true.
Outdoor smoking bans

* Some beaches in Sydney, Australia have smoking bans in place.
* From 1 March 2006, in Victoria, Australia smoking is banned from all covered train platforms, bus and tram stops. [6]
* In the Australian state of Queensland, smoking is prohibited within four metres of entrances to public buildings, near playgrounds, outdoor areas where food is served, and at all major sports stadiums.
* Edmonton, Alberta, Canada banned all outdoor patio smoking at bars, restaurants and casinos on July 1, 2005.
* Selected wards in Tokyo, Japan prohibit smoking on the streets. This ban is enforced and violators are fined. In response, smoking cafes have opened to provide a space for smokers.
* Cambridge Memorial Hospital in Cambridge, Ontario, Canada enacted a total (outdoor) smoking ban, believed to be the first in the entire province if not country, as of October 2004. At the same time, Wilfrid Laurier University in the nearby City of Waterloo proposed a similar total smoking ban on its property, after its 10 meter outdoor proximity ban (enacted in 2002) failed. WLU was presumed to be the third Canadian (public) post-secondary institution to consider such drastic measures, after Carleton and Acadia.
* Smoking is prohibuted in Hamilton Street Railway bus shelters in Hamilton, Ontario.

As for international guests at Disney, they are visitors in this country and we welcome them. I truly love meeting people from all over. However, they must be expected to abide by the same rules and restrictions as the natives. If foreign guests aren't aware of the rules, then it is Disney's responsibility to communicate their smoking policies in advance in clear language. Many foreign visitors do their homework and are well aware of the restrictions.

Also more and more countries are getting non smoking laws.

Bans in public places or bars/restaurants

* Argentina signed the WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control in September 2003. Many provincial and municipal jurisdictions have (or are in the process of implementing) laws banning tobacco consumption in government offices and enclosed public spaces, as well as the sale of tobacco products to minors. See Smoking in Argentina.
* Armenia's first law on restricting the sale, consumption and use of tobacco products nationwide was in force on March 2, 2005. It prohibits smoking in any public transport system, and in all cultural, educational and health institutions[1].
* Australia, federal law bans smoking in all Commonwealth government buildings, on most public transport, and in airports and international and domestic flights. Further bans are in place but are governed by individual states. Currently all Australian states and territories have banned smoking in enclosed public places, particularly workplaces and restaurants.
o New South Wales, 2005 In addition to a public place ban, half the area of pubs, bars, and clubs have to be smoke-free. A total ban is to be introduced in 2007.
o Victoria Public place ban in force (including restaurants), pubs, bars and clubs smoke-free by 1 July 2007.
* Belgium, smoking forbidden in all workplaces, state-owned and private, with exeption for restaurants, cafés etc. Total smoking ban in all trains (no smoking cars anymore) and in the train stations (only in enclosed spaces). Buses and trams are also smoke-free.
* Bhutan is the only country in the world to have banned tobacco smoking and the sale of tobacco.
* Canada, no federal policy, but all ten provinces and two of three territories restrict smoking in public places.
o Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Ontario, Quebec, and Saskatchewan have banned indoor smoking including in bars.
o British Columbia, Nova Scotia, and Prince Edward Island allow smoking only in separate, ventilated rooms.
o Alberta bans smoking in all workplaces except bars, casinos and bingo halls.
+ Edmonton has a total ban; Calgary will implement a ban in 2008.
o Yukon
+ Whitehorse banned as of January 2005 in all indoor public places, including restaurants and bars.
* India, 1 May 2004 banned in public places (200 rupee fine for violations); no-smoking areas required in bars, restaurants and hotels.
* Republic of Ireland, 29 March 2004 the first country in the Northern Hemisphere to ban smoking in all enclosed spaces, such as bars, resturants, hospitals, offices etc. Some public buildings have now built a 'Smoking Gazebo' outside entrances to cater for smokers.
* Italy, 10 January 2005 banned in all indoor public places and in all workplaces.
* Japan, Most train stations, trains, government offices, all airports disallow smoking, but up to each train operating company.
* Kenya, May 2006 banned smoking in public places[2] (suspended until at least 30 June 2006 by a High Court ruling[3]).
* Malta, October 2004 banned in all entertainment establishments including bars and restaurants though separate smoking rooms are allowed if they meet a number of technical requirements.
* Malaysia Smoking banned in restaurants, public transit, government buildings, mosques, etc. Bars still allow smoking.
* New Zealand, 10 December 2004 banned in all enclosed workplaces, including bars, clubs, and casinos. The law enacting this was the Smokefree Environments Amendment Act of 3 December 2003.
* Norway, 1 June 2004 banned in bars, clubs, and restaurants.
* Singapore has extended its ban in 1 October 2005 to now include pubs and bus shelters. Ban in effect July 1, 2006 extended to outdoor hawker stalls and cafes.
* South Africa, 1 October 2000 the first country in the world to ban smoking in all public areas, including bars and restaurants unless the proprietor built a ventilated smoking room, separated by walls and doors from the rest of the establishment, not exceeding 25% of the establishment's area.(Tobacco Products Control Amendment Act of 1999)
* Spain, 1 January 2006 Followed Ireland in banning smoking in all workplaces, and bars and restaurants with more than 100 squared meters. Smaller venues may choose to allow smoking.
* Sweden, 1 June 2005 banned smoking in any business selling food or drink, private parties not open to the general public exempt. Smoking in designated smoking rooms and outdoors is permitted. Smoking on public transports and in most enclosed public spaces has been prohibited since 1983.
* Tanzania, banned in public places[4].
* Thailand, 8 November 2002 banned in all air-conditioned buildings, hospitals, government, phone booths, elevators, temples, etc. Sept 2005 banned all displays of tobacco, including in shop displays and all advertising. Still allows smoking in nightclubs and bars.
* Turkey, 7 November 1996 banned in public places with a fine of 700 YTL as of 2006 (legislation 4207 with the name "Tütün ve Tütün Mamullerinin Zararlarının Önlenmesine Dair Kanun").

Wikinews has news related to:
British Parliament bans smoking in pubs, workplaces and clubs

* Uganda, banned in public places in 2004[5].
* United Kingdom
o England, from Summer 2007 all enclosed public places.
o Northern Ireland, from April 2007 all enclosed public places.
o Scotland, 26 March 2006, banned in all enclosed public places (under the Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Act 2005).
o Wales, all enclosed public places - date still to be confirmed by the Welsh Assembly Government.
* Uruguay, 1 March 2006, banned in all enclosed public places. (Fine of 27,300 uruguayan pesos the first violation, 54,600 uruguayan pesos for the next and even closure of the business).
* United States: There is no federal legislation regarding smoking, but state and local laws. See List of smoking bans in the United States.
* Vietnam, 07 January 2005 banned in public places including airports, public transportation, bus and train stations, ports, and government offices and waiting rooms.

This is no longer a US thing.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why do you feel it is the asthmatics fault for walking there? Most of the other posters have been talking about smokers clearly smoking where they shouldn't be. Don't the smokers also have to make sure they are smoking in the correct place??

I didn't say fault, I said responsibility. And IF there's a correct place, and the smoker is aware of the restrictions, yes, it's the smoker's responsibility to smoke in the designated areas. But if the smoker is NOT aware that they can't freely walk around with a cigarette, until they're informed of that fact they can't know they're smoking in an area where it's not permitted. And of course outdoors (for the most part, yes, I've glanced at a subsequent post that includes something about Australia beaches) and not on private property such as a theme park, smokers generally ARE permitted to smoke. Then it's the absolute responsibility of the person with the medical condition to avoid the smoke.

Those are not sound arguments. That is the same as saying I should avoid walking in dark alleys because I am responsible for whatever happens should someone commit a crime against me.

Yes, YOU know the potential risks to YOU if you walk down a dark alley. If you walk down that alley, you choose to take those risks. Somebody who posted above KNOWS that walking through a cloud of cigarette smoke puts them at risk for an asthma attack. If that person chooses to walk through the 'cloud of smoke'*, they are aware of the risk and therefore responsible for the possible result. The person smoking outdoors in a non-prohibited area can't be expected to be responsible for, or even aware of, a stranger's medical condition.

*I've NEVER seen a cloud of cigarette smoke in the open air. It dissipates.

 

[delilah]

*I've NEVER seen a cloud of cigarette smoke in the open air. It dissipates.

I've seen clouds of cigaret smoke outside. Eventually it does dissipate. It is not always and in every circumstance possible or feasible for non-smokers to completely avoid areas where smokers congregate. For example, at the hospital where I admit patients, for about two years, while construction was occurring at the new cancer hospital adjacent to my office building, I needed to walk through the area where employees were permitted to smoke to enter the hospital. Now, nurses and ambulance drivers smoke, alot. There were "clouds" of cigaret smoke there, particularly when people were actually outside smoking. The odor lingered, and was there even when there were no smokers outside. As it turns out, this arrangement where I needed to enter through the smokers' area corresponded to the years when my son was in daycare at the hospital. So, he also needed to be carried through the cigaret smoke. Believe me, at the time I complained about the arrangement. Then there was the day he spotted cigaret butts piled outside the door and tried to pick them up. Eww. Yuck. I almost puked. The hospital dictated where I was to park, which was a ten minute walk from the daycare. The alternative would have been to walk completely around the hospital campus and construction zone through areas that had no walkway, and, for lack of a better discription, were mudfields. It probably would have taken at least 30 minutes, both directions, to get to daycare from my parking space/office building to avoid the place where people smoked.

Now, the entire hospital campus is smokefree (hurray), and one of my nurses has also quit smoking (wonderful). We still have two nurses in our office, however, who need to go home for "lunch", because they still smoke.

 

[Planogirl]

I'm confused as to how an odor can trigger an attack. I understand that the smoke itself does but what physical substance in an odor bothers people? Is there actually a physical residue of some kind that floats around in the smoke and gets on the smoker's clothes? Is it kind of like the peanut residue that bothers some people?

 

[Marseeya]

I'm confused as to how an odor can trigger an attack. I understand that the smoke itself does but what physical substance in an odor bothers people? Is there actually a physical residue of some kind that floats around in the smoke and gets on the smoker's clothes? Is it kind of like the peanut residue that bothers some people?

GMTA. I was just going to post that question.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Is there actually a physical residue of some kind that floats around in the smoke and gets on the smoker's clothes?

From post #57:

The Facts about Secondhand Smoke

Secondhand smoke is the third leading preventable cause of death in the U.S. killing 38,000 to 65,000 nonsmokers every year.
Secondhand smoke causes lung cancer, other types of cancer, and heart disease in nonsmokers.
Exposure to secondhand smoke can cause children to develop asthma, bronchitis, pneumonia, other respiratory infections, and ear infections. Exposure to secondhand smoke also increase the risk that infants will die of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS).
Food service workers appear to be 50% more likely than the general population to develop lung cancer, largely because many of them are exposed to secondhand smoke on the job.
Besides causing disease, secondhand smoke also exacerates a number of pre-existing health conditions, including some allergies, asthma, bronchitis, other respiratory ailments, and heart disease.
Cigarette smoke contains over 4,700 chemicals, over 200 poisons, and over 50 human carcinogens. The poisons in cigarette smoke include carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, and methyl isocyanate. The carcinogens in cigarette smoke include benzo[a]pyrene and NNK, which cause lung cancer; nitrosamines, which cause cancer of the lung, respiratory system, and other organs; aromatic amines, which cause bladder and breast cancer; formaldehyde, which causes nasal cancer; and benzene, which causes leukemia. The carcinogen NNK has been found in nonsmokers who have been exposed to secondhand smoke.
Each year environmental tobacco smoke kills approximately 53,000 Americans, the same number of Americans killed in the Vietnam War. (Action on Smoking and Health, Special Report, Involuntary Smoking: The Factual Basis for Action, 1993)
The Environmental Protection Agency has classified environmental tobacco smoke as a “Group A” Carcinogen – a substance known to cause cancer in humans. Environmental tobacco smoke joins a list, which includes substances such as radon and asbestos. (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Respiratory Health Effectsd of Involuntary Smoking, 1993)
Waiters and waitresses have almost twice the risk of lung cancer due to involuntary exposure to environmental tobacco smoke (ETS). (Siegel, Michael, “Involuntary Smoking in the Restaurant Workplace, “Journal of the American Mecical Association, July 28, 1993; 270: 490-493.)

Chemicals in Environmental Tobacco Smoke
A few of the 4,000 chemicals in Environmental Tobacco Smoke, several of which are cancer causing agents, are listed below. The is from Table 3-1, 1992 EPA Report, Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking.
Benzene
2-Napthylamine
4-Aminobiphenyl
Nickel
Polonium 210 (radioactive)
Nitrogen oxides
N-Nitrosodimethylamine
N-Nitrosodiethylamine
N-Nitrosopyrrolidine
1,3-Butadiene
Analine
Formaldehyde
Hydrazine
N-Nitrodiethanolamine
Cadmium
Benzo[a]pyrene
Benz[a]anthracene
Y-Butyrolactone
Particulate matter
N-Nitrosonomicotine
NNK
Carbon monoxide
Carbon dioxide
Carbonyl sulfide
Toluene
Acrolein
Acetone
Pyridine
3-Methylpyridine
3-Vinylpyridine
Hydrogen cyanide
Ammonia
Methylamine
Dimethylamine
Nicotine
Anatabine
Phenol
Catechol
Hydorquinone
Cholesterol

The Facts about Secondhand Smoke (ETS) and Asthma :
Nearly 1 in 13 school-aged children has Asthma
An estimated 8,000 – 26,000 new asthma cases arise in children per year
Between 1980-1994, asthma among children under 5 years old increased by 160%
Nearly 1 in 5 of all pediatric emergency room visits are asthma-related
Nearly 2 out of 5 children aged 2 months-5 years live with at least one smoker
A estimated 9-12 million children are exposed to secondhand smoke at home
It is estimated that up to 1 million children have aggravated asthma symptoms due to Secondhand Smoke
Other major indoor asthma triggers are dust mites, mold, and animal dander, and cockroach allergens
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Indoor Environment Division and the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials (ASTHO).



Want to read more? http://search2.cancer.org/search?cl...econdhand+smoke