Skills Testing in Phy Ed

[themilesfamily]

I think PE, art and music should all be extracurricular activities.

 

[declansdad]

Because if I wanted my kid to learn the skills needed to play archer or any other sport I would enroll them in private classes that I paid for.

I never said we should make everything pass/fail you are twisting my words. I said we shouldn't grade on SKILL we should grade on knowledge. (So if a child was taught about Chaucer then would you expect them to be graded on if they wrote like Chaucer or what they learned about him?) Some kids don't have the athletic ability to do archery, or soccer, etc and they shouldn't be graded on their skill compared to the skills of other kids, its not really fair to grade someones talent.
Go ahead teach them the proper stance, the history of the sport and grade them on that. I took written tests in PE. We were graded on those and if we came to class and participated, not if we scored goals or baskets or shot a bullseye.
I expect kids to come out of school knowing how to read, write, do math, science and know their history. I don't expect my kids to come out knowing how to shoot an arrow.

If you don't allow courses such as phys ed., music, and art to be graded based on skill, just like math science, English, your are punishing the students who are strong in those areas. Is it ok for the strong math student to get great marks in math class and the weak student to get poor marks in math class; while they both simply get a pass in music because they tried???

ITA, but I still stand by my response. If my dd to be involved in any sport I would enroll her in it as an extra curricular activity. She can learn the skills there.
I have a ds who is not athletic and its very hard to explain to him why he got a 2 in gym and not a 4 like his sister (who is very athletic). Its not fair for kids to be graded on something that can be considered a talent.
Math is different, you NEED basic math skills to survive in the real world, you don't NEED archery skills.

But math skills are invlved in archery and many of these other courses that posters are complaining about. To be able to adjust for distance, wind, etc. requires you to perform calculations in your head.

How would you explain it to your dd if she got a 2 in math instead of a 4 like her brother?

 

[declansdad]

I think PE, art and music should all be extracurricular activities.

This is part of the reason North American children are out-of-shape and glued to their Gameboys.

 

[Galahad]

I think PE, art and music should all be extracurricular activities.

I absolutely disagree with this. You do not have a complete education without ALL three of these things. Kids do better in all classes when they have PE. Kids do much better in math and science when they also have music.

 

[themilesfamily]

This is part of the reason North American children are out-of-shape and glued to their Gameboys.

I disagree. If kids are out-of-shape and glued to their Gameboys it's because their PARENTS are not making them turn off the TV and are buying them these games.

It's not the school's responsibility to keep my kid in shape. They have enough other things to teach in a school day.

edited to add: We've HAD PE in the schools this whole time and kids are out-of-shape -- I guess it isn't working too well now is it?

 

[declansdad]

I disagree. If kids are out-of-shape and glued to their Gameboys it's because their PARENTS are not making them turn off the TV and are buying them these games.

It's not the school's responsibility to keep my kid in shape. They have enough other things to teach in a school day.

edited to add: We've HAD PE in the school this whole time and kids are out-of-shape -- I guess it isn't working too well now is it?

I agree with you about the parents but I still don't agree about PE. Growing up we have PE on a daily basis and we had far fewer kids out-of-shape. SUre we had fewer electronics to occupy our time, but even the kids who played no other sport received the benefits of PE.

Stop exempting Johny and Suzy from PE because they don't want ot sweat and things will get a lot better.

Also there is more to PE than just keeping kids in shape.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

When I took phys. ed. in the 70s, we had tests in gym. We did learn about archery and what saved my A was the test, and the notebook we had to do every quarter. My archery skill grade would have killed me. I have no arm strength (and this was before video games, I'm just a weakling) and I could have practiced for weeks and still had LOTS of trouble hitting the target. Speaking from experience, I just don't think a kid who has very little physical coordination should get bad grades because of it. Kids who are not good at math know that and take the lower level math classes. Kids who are not good at art (again, speaking from experience!) don't take it in HS. Kids who aren't coordinated have to take gym regardless.
In the state of Ohio now, kids need 2 semesters of phys. ed. to graduate from HS. My own kids get 1/2 credit for their 8th grade phys. ed. (the district did this to make more room for the NCLB requirements at the HS). I had DD#1 take summer phys. ed. before HS started and will do the same for DD#2 in 09. The summer gym I send them to in a neighboring district just requires perfect attendance (4 hours a day for 3 weeks)and a lot of effort to get an A.
Also, now in Ohio kids who are in 2 sports seasons in a year can use that for their gym requirement. Extracurricular dance, though, does not count.
Robin M.

 

[luvmy3]

But math skills are invlved in archery and many of these other courses that posters are complaining about. To be able to adjust for distance, wind, etc. requires you to perform calculations in your head.

How would you explain it to your dd if she got a 2 in math instead of a 4 like her brother?

This just proves my point, math is everywhere and you need it to fuction in the world, you do not need archery, or any other sport. (I do not mean exercising and keeping your body healthy and in shape)

Luckily I don't have to explain it because my kids do very well in academics, thanks to their physicist father.
The point of a school is to give students the basic knowledge that will teach them how to function in the real world. Anything above that is a parent's responsibility. My kids don't need to be taught skills in music, art, or PE, they can do those things as extra curricular activities.

 

[themilesfamily]

Also there is more to PE than just keeping kids in shape.

You know, I would probably agree with you during the elementary school years. Let kids explore their talents in a variety of fields, learn basic skills of fairplay, following rules, etc., etc.

For middle-schoolers and high-schoolers -- I think those should become extracurriculars.

(Oh my gosh, I had to look up how to spell extracurricular!! Maybe if I hadn't spent so much time in GYM class, I'd know how to spell it -- so there!) just kidding lol

 

[MichelleVW]

I disagree. If kids are out-of-shape and glued to their Gameboys it's because their PARENTS are not making them turn off the TV and are buying them these games.

It's not the school's responsibility to keep my kid in shape. They have enough other things to teach in a school day.

edited to add: We've HAD PE in the schools this whole time and kids are out-of-shape -- I guess it isn't working too well now is it?

I totally agree. My girls are in shape because I see to it that they are. Oldest DD cheers and goes to the gym to keep in shape, and the Archery Impaired child does track and rides horses so she is in awesome shape too.


I'm sure she will bring up her grade, but I was just really shocked to look at her grades online and see a 50%!!! It's early in the grading period so she only has 3 grades so far and that 50 really brought her down....

 

[taximomfor4]

Also, now in Ohio kids who are in 2 sports seasons in a year can use that for their gym requirement. Extracurricular dance, though, does not count.
Robin M.

Not true in our district, our niece's district, or the district where my dh teaches. Must not be an Ohio thing.

 

[Galahad]

My kids don't need to be taught skills in music, art, or PE, they can do those things as extra curricular activities.

Then dollars to donuts they are not meeting their potential in math and science, whether dad is a physicist or not. The core of education is fed by the humanities. If you ignore them we'll have a population of very poorly educated folks who happen to be good at math. That's not any better than the alternative.

 

[Snow_White]

This reminds me of my aunt....in college, she got an 'A' every single class she took.....except for bowling in which she got a 'B'. So, thanks to the silly requirement of needing one phys ed class, she got a 3.975 rather than a 4.0. Yup, bowling is VERY important when you're becoming a nurse! lol.

 

[MichelleVW]

This reminds me of my aunt....in college, she got an 'A' every single class she took.....except for bowling in which she got a 'B'. So, thanks to the silly requirement of needing one phys ed class, she got a 3.975 rather than a 4.0. Yup, bowling is VERY important when you're becoming a nurse! lol.

Well...they have strict requirements for that Tuesday night bowling league that the Hospital is trying to put together!!!

 

[luvmy3]

Then dollars to donuts they are not meeting their potential in math and science, whether dad is a physicist or not. The core of education is fed by the humanities. If you ignore them we'll have a population of very poorly educated folks who happen to be good at math. That's not any better than the alternative.

I never said to ignore the humanities, I'm saying that they should not be graded on skill. If a school district decides they want to grade on how good suzy hits a baseball or jonny scores a basket then the other children should elect to take a different course, say like rock collecting and classification which my ds is very good at.
If a school makes those courses mandatory then they should not be graded on how well students perform. I wouldn't expect a huge 150 lb football player to be scored on his ability to do ballet.

 

[declansdad]

Sorry but I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. Phys Ed (not gym), music, and art should be required courses just the same as math, language arts, and science.

 

[MichelleVW]

Ok...just checked the grades online again and they just got graded on the 10 minute run and like I said the child can run like the wind, so she got 100% on that test!!

So her C is now a B!!

 

[declansdad]

Ok...just checked the grades online again and they just got graded on the 10 minute run and like I said the child can run like the wind, so she got 100% on that test!!

So her C is now a B!!

So now it is ok for her to receive a grade based on her skill?

 

[declansdad]

I never said to ignore the humanities, I'm saying that they should not be graded on skill. If a school district decides they want to grade on how good suzy hits a baseball or jonny scores a basket then the other children should elect to take a different course, say like rock collecting and classification which my ds is very good at.
If a school makes those courses mandatory then they should not be graded on how well students perform. I wouldn't expect a huge 150 lb football player to be scored on his ability to do ballet.

So students should only take courses they are good at?

 

[luvmy3]

Sorry but I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. Phys Ed (not gym), music, and art should be required courses just the same as math, language arts, and science.

I think you are missing my point. I have no problems with those courses being required. My problem is that they grade them based on a child's ability to perform a certain sport well, or play an instrunent well or paint pictures well.
They use those grades to determine a final average, possibly keeping a child off the honor roll. It just doesn't seem fair to me.
Like I said before they were requirements for me, but we were graded on written tests and participation, as I think it should be.
Is your disagreement that they should be required or that they should be graded on skill and performance?