Should formal and semi-formal nights end?

[wombat_5606]

Which is why I didn't start cruising DCL until that policy became a suggestion.

Yes, nice for you, but not so nice for me or others that liked the formality and elegance of cruising and were cruising with DCL and others for years prior to that policy change.

 

[wombat_5606]

I don't try to make the smoking bars change.

Thanks!! That's my point!

 

[texas disney mom]

I can't do whatever I want. I can't cut lines, I can't skip muster, I can't abuse people emotionally or physically. I can't go to Palo or Remy without dressing up, and that's my choice. Those are RULES. If i disobeyed those, I would be acting defiantly and could be punished however DCL or a governing body sees fit. Rules are different than a suggestion. That's the beauty of you thinking I'm wrong and me knowing I'm right. The rules back my statements and your suggestions are merely that. It's fine you think I'm wrong. I'm not and when I walk into that suggested formal night dining room wearing what I like to wear, the rules will back me up and prove that RULES are there for a reason and suggestions are exactly that.

I did not say you could not wear stained shorts and a wrestling shirt to formal night. Thats disney's decision. I said that doing so is an act of defiance that contradicts disney's recommendation and that the kind of person who does something like that, barring extenuating circumstances, is acting like a petulant teenager. I sense you dont like being called out for your attitude.

 

[tinkerone]

The fact remains that dcl is suggesting you dress a certain way for dinner. They dont require it because they dont want to deal with people like Chipwich. They have enough on their plate. If you wear shorts to formal night, you are not just disregarding their suggestion, you are acting in a defiant manner. This behavior is juvenile. Sorry but I dont subscribe to the "dont judge" theory that seems popular today. If we dont judge we become complete relativists and yes that ultimately leads to chaos. Do I think there are extenuating circumstances or people forget etc. Of course. But when people go on a board and say things like I can do whatever I want I paid for the cruise, it smacks of entitlement. So I disagree. I think you are wrong.

i do understand that you 'think' i'm wrong but that doesn't make it so. i think your wrong but that also doesn't make it so. maybe we are both right. maybe we are both wrong.
i also disagree with the above statement that the reason they don't require it is because they don't want to deal with people. if that were true than they would allow it in palo and remy as well, which we all know they don't. my thought, and take it for what it is, is that dcl is changing with the times. they are giving the option, and make no mistake it is an option, to people as to whether or not they wish to dress formally. thinking that everyone needs to dress formally is entitlest. your wanting everyone to conform to your way.
i'm really very sorry that you don't subscribe to the 'don't judge'. i do and i don't think my way of thinking is uncommon. at least i hope its not uncommon. being judgmental is what will bring us all down. i say live and let live.

 

[texas disney mom]

[QU"Chipwich, post: 54719936, member: 475587"]My attitude being what? A rule follower?[/QUOTE]
I think I stated pretty clearly what I think your attitude is.

 

[tinkerone]

I did not say you could not wear stained shorts and a wrestling shirt to formal night. Thats disney's decision. I said that doing so is an act of defiance that contradicts disney's recommendation and that the kind of person who does something like that, barring extenuating circumstances, is acting like a petulant teenager. I sense you dont like being called out for your attitude.

okay, lets try this…..the servers come to my table every night with their 'recommendations' on what to order. do i order because dcl has decided thats what should be pushed tonight or should i make a choice that will suit me?

 

[texas disney mom]

Disney also recommends the following (and this is a short list):

Staying in a Deluxe Resort
Buying into DVC
Upgrading your tickets to Park Hoppers
Only shopping at their "recommeded" stores when in port
Getting a relaxing massage package
Buying all kinds of supplies while getting said massage
Making sure you stop by the Duty Free shop
Adding that special something buy buying an in room gift
Getting a data package for the length of your cruise.

I'm honestly surprised Disney keeps taking my money. I haven't done any of these things. Must be the petulant teenager in me.

You are just illustrating my point... but keep going...

 

[texas disney mom]

Ok, I'll continue. But only because you insist. To answer the OP, no, Disney shouldn't get rid of suggested formal night. For many people this is the one time a year or more that families can be together and dress up and take great pictures and make memories. I love the idea of DCL asking about your formal option so they could try to accommodate like minds. I really like seeing large families dressing up together, three or four generations all dressed up and having a special occasion. It would be a mistake on DCL's part to discourage people from having what they consider a special night. Just don't make it a rule or I, personally will find another vacation choice. And if being dressed up for a special occasion and seeing others who are not dressed up offends you, congratulations! You clearly have a first world problem that 95% of the world would love to have.

It sounds like you may be experiencing some personal growth. I bet you'll be in a tuxedo by your cruise.

 

[cgolf]

This thread finally got to me. I really take issue with the comments that state that someone that doesn’t care or notice what other people wear is self-centered and is causing the society to fall apart. What I personally believe is causing society to fall apart is exactly the opposite, that people judge people based on how they look and refuse to take the time to get to know someone. For me I want to associate with the person and not the image.

Because I am angry I will give a few examples of what led me to this way of thinking.

I grew up in an upper middle class family in a resort town, but always had a job growing up. I was beerman(kid), worked at a fast food restaurant, and worked in a factory for a while. What I learned is that there are good people and bad people in the world. While working fast food, I was treated terribly by many people that saw me as a nothing working in that position, and was also treated respectfully by many as well. You know what I learned, that how they dressed did not give me an indication as to how I was going to be treated.

I also learned a valuable lesson from a lady who was from a ½% family that would show up at her hired helps birthday parties. She would not just show up and leave instantly, she would stay for quite a while and mingle with everyone and treated everyone with a lot of respect and never made anyone feel inferior. She was a very nice lady, and was trying to teach her children the same values that she lived by.

I also raced RC cars where we had people that owned successful companies, pro athletes, people that spent time in jail, and people that could barely afford the entry fees race side by side and hang out together and get along just great. It was a case where no one judged each other and we all helped each other out and had a great time. Were there outliers in those groups, sure, but I gravitated to the people that were very friendly and treated everyone with respect.

As for how I dress on formal night, black pants and a button down shirt and most times with a tie. I did wear a coat the first couple of cruises, but ditched it because the first thing I did when I sat down was take it off, so for that reason we quit packing it. So after this long winded rant, my take is that I would rather sit on formal night with a family that engaging and respectful, how they are dressed will not impact my experience. If the family is rude and obnoxious and treat the servers poorly however my experience will be diminished. DCL made the rules that made dress up optional, so if people are following the rules I don’t have any issue with how they dress.

 

[texas disney mom]

i do understand that you 'think' i'm wrong but that doesn't make it so. i think your wrong but that also doesn't make it so. maybe we are both right. maybe we are both wrong.
i also disagree with the above statement that the reason they don't require it is because they don't want to deal with people. if that were true than they would allow it in palo and remy as well, which we all know they don't. my thought, and take it for what it is, is that dcl is changing with the times. they are giving the option, and make no mistake it is an option, to people as to whether or not they wish to dress formally. thinking that everyone needs to dress formally is entitlest. your wanting everyone to conform to your way.
i'm really very sorry that you don't subscribe to the 'don't judge'. i do and i don't think my way of thinking is uncommon. at least i hope its not uncommon. being judgmental is what will bring us all down. i say live and let live.

Not trying to open this back up, but I did not read your post until this morning. I just want to clarify my position. I agree that we should live and let live and that we should always err on the side of personal freedom. I would never say anything to anyone about what they are wearing in a certain setting. But... live and let live is different than "don't judge," and I think when people tell others "don't judge," they are trying to control what people are thinking. I think people have a right to judge. And that whether we realize it or not we are judging people and things all the time. I believe this is a good thing.

 

[texas disney mom]

This thread finally got to me. I really take issue with the comments that state that someone that doesn’t care or notice what other people wear is self-centered and is causing the society to fall apart. What I personally believe is causing society to fall apart is exactly the opposite, that people judge people based on how they look and refuse to take the time to get to know someone. For me I want to associate with the person and not the image.

Because I am angry I will give a few examples of what led me to this way of thinking.

I grew up in an upper middle class family in a resort town, but always had a job growing up. I was beerman(kid), worked at a fast food restaurant, and worked in a factory for a while. What I learned is that there are good people and bad people in the world. While working fast food, I was treated terribly by many people that saw me as a nothing working in that position, and was also treated respectfully by many as well. You know what I learned, that how they dressed did not give me an indication as to how I was going to be treated.

I also learned a valuable lesson from a lady who was from a ½% family that would show up at her hired helps birthday parties. She would not just show up and leave instantly, she would stay for quite a while and mingle with everyone and treated everyone with a lot of respect and never made anyone feel inferior. She was a very nice lady, and was trying to teach her children the same values that she lived by.

I also raced RC cars where we had people that owned successful companies, pro athletes, people that spent time in jail, and people that could barely afford the entry fees race side by side and hang out together and get along just great. It was a case where no one judged each other and we all helped each other out and had a great time. Were there outliers in those groups, sure, but I gravitated to the people that were very friendly and treated everyone with respect.

As for how I dress on formal night, black pants and a button down shirt and most times with a tie. I did wear a coat the first couple of cruises, but ditched it because the first thing I did when I sat down was take it off, so for that reason we quit packing it. So after this long winded rant, my take is that I would rather sit on formal night with a family that engaging and respectful, how they are dressed will not impact my experience. If the family is rude and obnoxious and treat the servers poorly however my experience will be diminished. DCL made the rules that made dress up optional, so if people are following the rules I don’t have any issue with how they dress.

I absolutely agree that you cannot tell what a person is like because of how they dress. But I still think that if a certain dress is "suggested" and you make the point to dress in the opposite way, you are making a statement. Generally a negative statement. There are exceptions.

 

[tinkerone]

I just want to clarify my position. I agree that we should live and let live and that we should always err on the side of personal freedom. I would never say anything to anyone about what they are wearing in a certain setting. But... live and let live is different than "don't judge," and I think when people tell others "don't judge," they are trying to control what people are thinking. I think people have a right to judge. And that whether we realize it or not we are judging people and things all the time. I believe this is a good thing.

you may be judging people and things all the time but i don't. i'm sorry that you feel it is necessary and think its a good thing.
p.s.-i think when people tell others 'don't judge' they are saying 'be nice', not trying to control what they think.

 

[texas disney mom]

you may be judging people and things all the time but i don't. i'm sorry that you feel it is necessary and think its a good thing.
p.s.-i think when people tell others 'don't judge' they are saying 'be nice', not trying to control what they think.

Actually "be nice" and "dont judge" mean two different things. You wouldnt have to actively be nice if you had not already formed a negative judgement about someone. "Dont judge" means that your thoughts themselves are wrong. It is telling someone not to think their thoughts.

But I want to add one thing and this is to everyone. I disagree with some in this thread, but I hope people agree that open discussion and argument is a good thing. I love it. I dont think we do enough of it in our culture. There is lots of discussion, but it is usually in a superficial way because no one wants to offend anyone. I really respect tinkerone and chipwich (and others) for willing to really engage. That being said, I cant wait to see them on a cruise sometime dressed to kill on formal night! (Sorry, had to say it).

 

[breakingd_awn]

We like dressing up for dinner, it adds to the whole cruise experience for me. If they did away with formal and dress up night then I might as well go to the parks and schlump around there in shorts and flip flops hair up in a pony tail,same old same old. Or I could just save myself thousands and schlump around Marengo, Ohio and just eat dinner at taco hell. I would be pissed if they did away with Formal night.

 

[tinkerone]

Actually "be nice" and "dont judge" mean two different things. You wouldnt have to actively be nice if you had not already formed a negative judgement about someone. "Dont judge" means that your thoughts themselves are wrong. It is telling someone not to think their thoughts.

But I want to add one thing and this is to everyone. I disagree with some in this thread, but I hope people agree that open discussion and argument is a good thing. I love it. I dont think we do enough of it in our culture. There is lots of discussion, but it is usually in a superficial way because no one wants to offend anyone. I really respect tinkerone and chipwich (and others) for willing to really engage. That being said, I cant wait to see them on a cruise sometime dressed to kill on formal night! (Sorry, had to say it).

i did not say they mean the same thing, i said i think when people tell others don't judge they are saying be nice. i also think its very sad that someone feels the need to judge. its a big responsibility to be so right you can judge people because when you judge them you are saying that your thoughts are the correct thoughts and theirs are not. i certainly don't need the weight of that on my shoulders. i said it earlier and i'll say it again; we need to agree to disagree.

but really, we digress. this thread is about dressing for formal night and we have taken it to a different level so lets return it to its original purpose. there is a formal night, there is a suggested dress code. as it is only suggested then do it or don't do it. no one will throw you out of the dinning room for what ever reason we care to believe. go and have a great meal.

 

[steves100]

No they shouldnt get rid of it. I just hate bring good clothes on vacation though : )

 

[texas disney mom]

i did not say they mean the same thing, i said i think when people tell others don't judge they are saying be nice. i also think its very sad that someone feels the need to judge. its a big responsibility to be so right you can judge people because when you judge them you are saying that your thoughts are the correct thoughts and theirs are not. i certainly don't need the weight of that on my shoulders. i said it earlier and i'll say it again; we need to agree to disagree.

but really, we digress. this thread is about dressing for formal night and we have taken it to a different level so lets return it to its original purpose. there is a formal night, there is a suggested dress code. as it is only suggested then do it or don't do it. no one will throw you out of the dinning room for what ever reason we care to believe. go and have a great meal.

If that is true, that when someone says "don't judge" they mean "be nice," why don't they just say "be nice?" Because words have meaning. And when you say don't judge it literally means do not form a judgement or do not allow yourself to think your thoughts. And why do you feel so uncomfortable judging anyway? You obviously have very strong judgements about my ideas, which is a great thing. That is what makes you an individual. Now, sometimes our judgements may not always be right, or two hastily drawn, but we all judge. Telling someone don't judge is like telling them don't think your thoughts, don't be who you are.

 

[Tom P.]

Personally, I think how casual our culture has become *has* been a detriment to us as a society, and I think it would be a good thing if more people's jobs, schools, etc. required them to go back to a more formal style. But I know that any such sentiment immediately brings out the pitchforks, because we have come to worship at the altar of the holy pair of jeans.

That being said, no, I don't think they should do away with the formal nights on the cruise. It's a fun tradition for many, and if you don't want to participate, don't. It's always optional. Simple as that.

 

[cgolf]

Actually "be nice" and "dont judge" mean two different things. You wouldnt have to actively be nice if you had not already formed a negative judgement about someone. "Dont judge" means that your thoughts themselves are wrong. It is telling someone not to think their thoughts.

But I want to add one thing and this is to everyone. I disagree with some in this thread, but I hope people agree that open discussion and argument is a good thing. I love it. I dont think we do enough of it in our culture. There is lots of discussion, but it is usually in a superficial way because no one wants to offend anyone. I really respect tinkerone and chipwich (and others) for willing to really engage. That being said, I cant wait to see them on a cruise sometime dressed to kill on formal night! (Sorry, had to say it).

I said similar things on the pricing threads, good discussions are exactly that. We can all walk away happy disagreeing on the topic only to support each other on another topic (I think this happened with you and I on another thread where we happened to agree and back each other up )

 

[tinkerone]

If that is true, that when someone says "don't judge" they mean "be nice," why don't they just say "be nice?" Because words have meaning. And when you say don't judge it literally means do not form a judgement or do not allow yourself to think your thoughts. And why do you feel so uncomfortable judging anyway? You obviously have very strong judgements about my ideas, which is a great thing. That is what makes you an individual. Now, sometimes our judgements may not always be right, or two hastily drawn, but we all judge. Telling someone don't judge is like telling them don't think your thoughts, don't be who you are.

i wonder if you and i have a different meaning for 'judge'. i have strong thoughts about your ideas but i have not by any means judged them. i have said several times that we need to agree to disagree. i have said several times that you may be right, i may be wrong and visa versa. where in heavens name are you getting the idea i am judging your ideas?
never mind answering this, its getting silly and not going anywhere. i have another saying i love….it is what it is!