Should formal and semi-formal nights end?

[texas disney mom]

i wonder if you and i have a different meaning for 'judge'. i have strong thoughts about your ideas but i have not by any means judged them. i have said several times that we need to agree to disagree. i have said several times that you may be right, i may be wrong and visa versa. where in heavens name are you getting the idea i am judging your ideas?
never mind answering this, its getting silly and not going anywhere. i have another saying i love….it is what it is!

Its been a good discussion.

 

[mcd2745]

The sad thing, to me, is that cruising used to be a special and an elegant experience. I'm talking back 30 years ago. You dressed for dinner every night and they still had a formal night. For those of you that don't know, Disney had a non-optional formal night, up until a few years ago. It's in response to people that they have made it optional and now, I guess, people want to lose that and make it casual all of the time. But, what if a majority of the people start wanting DCL to let people wear their bathing suits to meals? Where is it going to stop?

People are changing the cruise experience to just another all-inclusive trip, not something special. And for those people that suggest those that like the formal nights should sail on a luxury line, I say why don't you find a nice resort in the Caribbean, Alaska, Europe, etc. and leave the cruise experience alone? There are those that say that "it's my vacation and I'm paying for it". I say why don't you find a vacation that supports your vacation mode and quit trying to change the cruise experience to fit your needs? For those people that complain that they don't want to dress up on their vacation, then why choose one that required that very thing?

Cruising used to be like nothing else in the world. It's just another resort, now, albeit a floating one.

You see this sentiment a lot in these types of threads regarding formal nights / shorts in the MDRs - whether on these boards here or the boards on another popular site dedicated to cruising (most can guess which one I'm referring to). While no one would dispute the truth in that sentiment, it's a completely irrelevant point for the purpose of these current discussions since the cruise industry, and other related factors, have changed so dramatically. Let's go back 30 years ago. What was the average age of the typical cruiser? What demographic were the cruise lines targeting then, and who are they targeting now? How many children/families were on board? Were the airlines charging baggage fees and putting restrictions on the size/weight of your luggage? Did the ships have the kinds of activities on board that they do now? Smart businesses adapt to the ever-changing whims of their customers - and not insist on trying to dictate to consumers that they need to hold on to the old norms.

 

[texas disney mom]

I said similar things on the pricing threads, good discussions are exactly that. We can all walk away happy disagreeing on the topic only to support each other on another topic (I think this happened with you and I on another thread where we happened to agree and back each other up )

Definitely agree

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

There is a lot of "it's all about me" attitude on this thread. Reminds me of the spongebob episode with Mr. Crab's spoiled teenage daughter Pearl and the "It's all about you girl" birthday song. This is my point exactly. When DCL suggests a level of dress for certain nights in the MDR, people who wear shorts are performing an act of defiance akin to that of a teenager. It's the "no one will tell me what to do attitude," and call it your prerogative or whatever, but in the end it is disrespectful to those around you. Disney is not going to stop you, because they don't want to deal with you. I am not suggesting people rent formal wear or that they have to don a tuxedo. But a blazer on formal night? Yes. And it is stunning to me to read people posting things like, "I don't notice anyone else so who cares what people wear." This attitude is so self-centered. How can you not be aware of other people or your surroundings? This is how society falls apart.

No. It's self-centered to attempt to shame people for choosing not to follow a suggestion that, as DCL staff themselves point out, is not a rule. I get from your comment that you really want it to be a rule. But it isn't. So if you don't want to share the MDRs with fellow guests who exercise their choice not to follow the suggestion, don't dine in the MDRs on formal or semi-formal nights. Choose Palo or Remy instead, where you will be guaranteed that your fellow diners follow a dress code. As far as Disney "not wanting to deal with" those people, it seems from this thread that Disney deals with them just fine. You don't, and that's fine. But just because you don't, you don't get to turn a suggestion into a dress code and use it as a weapon to make others feel bad, and you don't get to ascribe to DCL staff motives that they, themselves, clearly have not expressed. You can consider the actions of shorts-wearing diners childish if you want. By the same token, what do you think calling shorts in an MDR on formal night "how society falls apart" sounds like?

 

[texas disney mom]

No. It's self-centered to attempt to shame people for choosing not to follow a suggestion that, as DCL staff themselves point out, is not a rule. I get from your comment that you really want it to be a rule. But it isn't. So if you don't want to share the MDRs with fellow guests who exercise their choice not to follow the suggestion, don't dine in the MDRs on formal or semi-formal nights. Choose Palo or Remy instead, where you will be guaranteed that your fellow diners follow a dress code. As far as Disney "not wanting to deal with" those people, it seems from this thread that Disney deals with them just fine. You don't, and that's fine. But just because you don't, you don't get to turn a suggestion into a dress code and use it as a weapon to make others feel bad, and you don't get to ascribe to DCL staff motives that they, themselves, clearly have not expressed. You can consider the actions of shorts-wearing diners childish if you want. By the same token, what do you think calling shorts in an MDR on formal night "how society falls apart" sounds like?

If you feel shame from my comments that's about you not about me. I said that those who choose to go against disney's suggested dress are going against Disney's suggestion. This is by definition contrary. Who comes to my mind when I think contrarian? Teenagers. No where did I say people have to dress other than Disney requires. But the fact is Disney does suggest a way to dress.

 

[mikedoyleblogger]

If you feel shame from my comments that's about you not about me. I said that those who choose to go against disney's suggested dress are going against Disney's suggestion. This is by definition contrary. Who comes to my mind when I think contrarian? Teenagers. No where did I say people have to dress other than Disney requires. But the fact is Disney does suggest a way to dress.

Labeling people in a gratuitously negative manner says much more about the person who engages in it than about anyone else. Although it's worth noting the irony that criticizing people for not dressing up on formal night is contrary to the direction of DCL staff, themselves, who as others have noted adamantly tell people to come as they please. So the bone you're picking here with fellow passengers you're also picking with the same DCL you think you're defending. Also, it's interesting that you think the attire suggestion is for the benefit of ambiance (as you noted in your original post.) The attire suggestion is so that DCL can increase on-board revenue by trying to get you to pay for your formal-night photo. In other words, a strategy to try and upcharge you for a dinner that you already paid for in your cruise fare--which is why it's only a suggestion and not an actual and enforced dress code. I'm not sure you clearly get how adamantly Disney is about not making families feel bad about themselves on vacation...

 

[ksboyd20]

mikedoyleblogger
Thank you. Very well said.

 

[ksboyd20]

Chipwich, I would rather dine with you and your favorite wrestling shirt any day of the week.

Obviously, a formal dress doesn't automatically make you classy. So "smack" that. *eye roll*

 

[texas disney mom]

Labeling people in a gratuitously negative manner says much more about the person who engages in it than about anyone else. Although it's worth noting the irony that criticizing people for not dressing up on formal night is contrary to the direction of DCL staff, themselves, who as others have noted adamantly tell people to come as they please. So the bone you're picking here with fellow passengers you're also picking with the same DCL you think you're defending. Also, it's interesting that you think the attire suggestion is for the benefit of ambiance (as you noted in your original post.) The attire suggestion is so that DCL can increase on-board revenue by trying to get you to pay for your formal-night photo. In other words, a strategy to try and upcharge you for a dinner that you already paid for in your cruise fare--which is why it's only a suggestion and not an actual and enforced dress code. I'm not sure you clearly get how adamantly Disney is about not making families feel bad about themselves on vacation...

No one is labeling anyone. I am calling out people for their behavior. But your comment about Disney's motives is very thought provoking. I had not considered that Disney might be trying to make people buy more photos. I guess I had not thought about that because we have never used any of their photo services. But I guess I also am not really worried about Disneys motivations. I know their main motivation is money, but I still respect them as a company enough to follow their suggestions. And as insightful as your observation might be, it reveals that you have some level of distrust or animus towards Disney. Maybe we all have a little animus towards Disney. I dont know, I'm not a psychologist. But none the less you definitely do not trust their "suggestions" and maybe you might be inclined to flout them in order to make a statement? I would still maintain that people who do not follow dress suggestions are acting out kind of like teenagers. That it is a statement and generally a negative one. Again, there are exceptions.

I wanted to comment on something you said about serving staff. I think you mentioned I presume to know their motivations. I have not really stated what I think their motivations are, except if you are referencing when I told Sweetpee_1993 that she was really nice and thats why her servers told her to come. There I was messing around but I do think she seems very nice as I have read a lot of her posts so I was also serious. I suspect, and the reason I suspect this is I have worked similar jobs, that the wait staff, as nice as they are, is motivated mostly by money. And there is a lot of money on the line for servers. And they are not going to say anything negative about anyone's dress because it could jeopardize their tips. That is why the tipping method is so good for customers. Because the server truly is your advocate and in many ways works for you and not the establishment. Another topic, but I am very against doing away with tipping if anyone wants to start a thread and discuss that. I know some people resent tipping, another one of DCL's suggestions.

 

[P'colaBeachBum]

It seems to me the only real "dress code" for the MDR's are no "swimwear and tank tops" the rest are just guidelines. Also some people dress like pirates and some don't on Pirate Night. I think that as long as you are clean and nicely dressed you will be ok.


"One formal and one semi-formal night—both give you the opportunity to dress up and take advantage of the onboard photography services." Sounds to me like they really want to sell you photos....but that is optional as well. No where did I read that Formals and Tuxes were recommended.

On my 2 4 night DCL cruises I didn't see/notice anyone in formal wear and we had late dining.




Q.

Are there dress codes or guidelines regarding dressing for dinner?

A.

In general, most onboard dining locations are "cruise casual,” so casual attire, such as shorts and T-shirts, is permitted, with the exception of swimwear and tank tops. Most cruises have special theme nights that provide opportunities to dress up for a one-of-a-kind family photo. Here's a breakdown of special dress events by cruise itinerary:

3-night cruises:

• One cruise casual night—no swimwear or tank tops
• One pirate night themed deck party
• One optional “dress-up night"—jacket for men, dress or pantsuit for women

4-night cruises:

• First night is cruise casual—no swimwear or tank tops
• One pirate night themed deck party
• One optional dress-up night—jacket for men, dress or pantsuit for women
• Final night is cruise casual—no swimwear or tank tops

7-night cruises:

• First night is cruise casual—no swimwear or tank tops
• One pirate night or other themed deck party
• 3 additional cruise casual nights—no swimwear or tank tops
• One formal and one semi-formal night—both give you the opportunity to dress up and take advantage of the onboard photography services. Though optional, we recommend dress pants with a jacket or a suit for men, and dress or pantsuit for women

 

[ksboyd20]

I layeth the smack down. Join me anytime. Dec 5th on the Fantasy.

Oooo I will be juuuust missing you. My cruise is on the Fantasy Dec. 12! No worries though, as I will be at Survivor Series in Atlanta on Nov 22. Finally able to see Undertaker for the first time IRL.

 

[Julylady]

My family loves formal night as we have little opportunity to dress up in our day to day lives. I watch for "fancy" dresses to go on clearance at the big department stores. I do notice what other people are wearing and although it doesn't bother me all that much if they are not dressed up, it does detract from the overall experience. I hope Disney doesn't do away with formal night.

 

[DCLDVC1]

You literally in one post say that people who don't follow suggestions are acting like teenagers and in another say you've never taken Disney's suggestion to get formal pictures taken. Welcome to the club, teenager.

Drop the mic!

 

[emilyann415]

I can't imagine they will ever eliminate formal and semi-formal night as SOME people do like it and it is a great way for DCL to generate income selling the pics, pressing the clothes, etc. We do like to "dress up" but I fear our definition of "dress up" and some descriptions on here of "dress up" may be different. Such is life. I'll tell you one thing....I'd much rather sit at a table next to a family in shorts....that absolutely will NOT ruin the ambiance for me....than sit next to a family dressed to the nines that lets their children scream and holler and run around the dining room. THAT has happened to me before and it HAS impacted my ability to enjoy a meal. My two cents...they will not change dress up nights and will not enforce people to dress up and it won't bother me one iota if you do or don't. Peace.

 

[Bree]

I don't see the need to get rid of formal or semi-formal nights, but I don't agree that they should make formal wear mandatory. I was just on the Magic 11/6-11/11. There was a dress up optional night. On all my cruise documents it clearly said optional. We brought dressy clothes and ended up wearing shorts that night because nobody felt like getting ready. Those that were dressed up were few and far between. I like having the option to dress up or down.

Now Palo was a shocker. There were diners in shorts, graphic t-shirts, cheap rubber flip flops, converse sneakers, running shoes and Tevas.

 

[jdb in AZ]

I don't see the need to get rid of formal or semi-formal nights, but I don't agree that they should make formal wear mandatory. I was just on the Magic 11/6-11/11. There was a dress up optional night. On all my cruise documents it clearly said optional. We brought dressy clothes and ended up wearing shorts that night because nobody felt like getting ready. Those that were dressed up were few and far between. I like having the option to dress up or down.

Now Palo was a shocker. There were diners in shorts, graphic t-shirts, cheap rubber flip flops, converse sneakers, running shoes and Tevas.

We had dinner in Palo on the Wonder and the restaurant called our stateroom the day before to remind us of the dress code.

Remy on the Fantasy was also very dressy.

 

[n2mm]

I thought formal and semiformal are optional. It's nice that some like to dress up. We don't. We have done two 7 night cruises this year and last year. While we dress up we certainly don't do the formal thing. A shirt and tie for him and little black dress for me. I love seeing how dressed up people get. My granddaughters enjoy seeing people in their "fancy" clothes.

 

[southerngirl528]

A shirt and tie for him and little black dress for me.

To me that IS dressed up, N2mm. I think that is where a lot of people are missing the point here as I have mentioned in my earlier posts. If semi-formal or formal is "requested but not mandatory", NO ONE is being MADE to dress fancy. But the request for formal or semi-formal certainly does imply wearing something nicer than one would wear for a quick run to the hardware stores while they clean out their garage…….

 

[n2mm]

To me that IS dressed up, N2mm. I think that is where a lot of people are missing the point here as I have mentioned in my earlier posts. If semi-formal or formal is "requested but not mandatory", NO ONE is being MADE to dress fancy. But the request for formal or semi-formal certainly does imply wearing something nicer than one would wear for a quick run to the hardware stores while they clean out their garage…….

Lol. I think dressed up is a tux or suit for him and a gown for her. Something we never plan to wear.

 

[texas disney mom]

OMG Chipwich, cannot believe you are going on with this. We get it. You don't want to wear your big boy pants to formal night. For someone who doesn't care what other people think about what you wear, you sure seem to care what other people think about what you wear. And here's my parting shot (Texas style): dont be such an "angry elf." "There's room for everyone on the nice list." -Elf.

Have a great cruise