Sexual predators at sea

[pjacobi]

I think most people feel a false sense of security while on a cruise ship. In reality, you should behave no differently than if you were at a hotel. That's all a ship is....a floating hotel.

I don't put signs or door magnets on my hotel room door for security reason. Why should a cruise cabin be any different?

Image how a door with a cutey "Kids Room" sign or magnet could be used by an attacker.


-Paul

 

[Piglet2007]

I'm now completely freaked out....and that we can't even trust the people hired to take care of the kids....(check out the story of Paul Trotter who worked on the Cunard line as a "play zone supervisor)

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/sexual-assault-of-minors/

I'll definitely be thinking twice about leaving my daughter in the care of the CMs now...

 

[eeyoremommy]

I guess these reasons are why my DS 8 does not get permission to sign himself in and out of the club, does not go anywhere without us, and is under our constant supervision unless in the club. Even in the club, his time is limited. He knows to be where there are lots of kids and not to be alone with any one CM for any reason.

Unfortunately, we cannot put our kids in bubbles. These things can happen anywhere by anyone. It could be done by another child that has been abused. Are we then going to keep our kid away from other kids? No. We simply have to teach our children and teens basic safety information. Be proactive.

 

[kcashner]

I agree that she shouldn't have been worried about telling her parents for the 'ruin'. Even though I couldn't say to my kids that the cruise wouldn't be 'ruined' because I would probably definitely be spending a lot of time with the ship staff until I was satisfied with the outcome and to a child that could be construed as 'ruined'.

I think the way I would approach the discussion is to tell my kids "You are so much more important to me than a vacation, item, whatever that if ANYTHING or ANYONE does anything to you that hurts you I want to know. I want to be able to care for you and protect you and not knowing doesn't allow me to do that. A cruise is something that is fun but it is not what is important."

I wonder if this is kind of a teen thing. In my daughter's situation, she asked the ship security personnel to not talk to me until the morning--her logic that I'm going to get up, dressed, and be up much of the night with the meeting, etc. Of course, SHE came right down to the room and woke me.

Don't get me wrong, this happened before midnight and the teen programming was still going strong. My kid never was permitted to stay out late (at home or on the ship). But she was allowed to be in the programming until it closed for the night.

 

[chateau]

I work in the Court system and often deal with sex offenders. My kids have always thought I have been overprotective but, I see the deviousness of sex offenders, and their grooming techniques and schemes are astounding. I would like to say that because my sons are older teens I am not so concerned any longer-but it would be a lie!!!! I also would like more than anything to think that when I am on a cruise my children are safe (and be able to relax), but I just cannot get past what I see on a daily basis and know that it is not true. While I am not as concerned about the Cast members on a cruise, I remain leary of anyone my children meet and would advise all parents to remain the same!!!!

The Sandusky incident at Penn State shows how clever a predator can be. Kcashner, sorry your daughter went through this, as I am to all other kids that endure any form of this (and other) abuse. It breaks my heart.

 

[chateau]

I am reminded of a story about Wayne Gretzky that I heard years ago that, if he were riding an elevator alone and an attractive woman entered alone from another floor, he would step out of the elevator to avoid any possible 'stories' that may have occurred whether he did or did not do anything.
I am a bit of a giant at 6'5" tall and my work requires a fair amount of physical strength. Since I heard that story about the Great One, I try to follow that modus operandi as it would likely make the girl feel better than to have a burly fellow in close quarters, and it removes me from any liability if I'm accused of anything.
The only crux to it all is that I trust myself, naturally, but if someone else gets into the elevator with the young lady with malicious intent, I'm no longer there to protect her (I'm a dad, it's inherent in me)

What if an ugly person got on? Sorry, I'm not trying to make light of what you said. I mentioned in another comment about Sandusky, though, big guy, powerful in his organization, victims were boys. Victims and attackers come in all shapes, sizes, professions, lifestyles, backgrounds, you name it. I'd suggest that you STOP taking yourself off the elevators (Wayne had a public profile to protect from those wanting a piece of it too, like Big Ben) and be there for those of us smaller folks!!! If I saw you get off the elevator, then realized you did so because I got on (like I saw you end up on the ground floor just a few minutes later), I'd think I forgot my deoderant that day or something!!!

 

[Gdes1]

I think the lesson here is that people are people and things don't change just because it's "vacation" or a ship. Those with alcohol problems on land still have the problem at sea and so on and so forth. It's a sad fact that people commit crimes against each other, and the same thing happens on cruise ships (well, with the exception of say, auto theft). There will be petty theft, and it's often guest on guest and doesn't involve the staff. There will be fights or assault. And, sadly, there will be sexual assault.

But here is where DCL could improve....

kcashner says the put a security detail on his daughter, which is great, but what about the boy? Wouldn't it have made sense to have someone follow him? And, maybe they did and no one knows that.

Or, take it a step further....another recent post talked about the poster's experience with trip insurance after their child was quarantined in the room due to a GI illness. They were told a parent had to stay in the room with the minor. Now, I'd leave my teen in the room alone to nap, or spend 3 hours getting ready for formal night. But apparently the policy is that if a minor is ill and quarantined, a parent must be in the room. This is probably to make sure the minor doesn't decide to leave the room and put other passengers at risk.

So, shouldn't the same logic apply when a minor passenger has endangered others with his or her behavior? Simply put, if your kid is causing damage to persons or property, then that kid cannot be alone on the ship. A parent must accompany him or her everywhere after the first incident.

 

[TDC Nala]

I'm now completely freaked out....and that we can't even trust the people hired to take care of the kids....(check out the story of Paul Trotter who worked on the Cunard line as a "play zone supervisor)

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/articles/sexual-assault-of-minors/

I'll definitely be thinking twice about leaving my daughter in the care of the CMs now...

Do you send her to school? Quite a few convicted sex predators were teachers. Look at that Sandusky guy. Everybody thought he was a nice old married retired coach who just wanted to help out the kids.

I can't say I buy the assertion in that article that cruise ships are crawling with child predators any more than anyplace else might be.

You can certainly decide that your child is not going anywhere onboard without you, but it's no different on the ship than it would be at a school. Just teach her to protect herself. I think the Center for Missing and Exploited Children has good guidelines for parents and kids.

I agree with the Wayne Gretsky thing, he is doing that because he is famous and he doesn't want the woman getting ideas to accuse him of something to get money or fame. I don't think he was doing it to reassure the woman that he wouldn't attack her.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I respectfully disagree, here is the original thread for those who want to review the entire discussion:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2951179

And for those who want the "Cliff Notes" version, here are direct quotes from the thread on what happened both during the altercation and afterwards, which clearly show there was significant concern over the perceived lack of subsequent consequences for the fight participants, who did engage in behavior that was grossly inappropriate. They were not removed from the ship or confined:

At first, punches were thrown and a DCL CM along with guests in the area were able to break it up.....this is when MANY other DCL CM's needed to show up. After a minute or so, the large muscular guy broke away and started beating the guy to the ground.....HARD! Kids were crying and very upset. Even as far away as we were, my daughter was very upset just witnessing it and seeing the guy remain there! I believe they removed the guy that was beaten up, because I didn't see him anymore....but the one doing the beating even removed his belt and wrapped it around his fist with the buckle facing out. I'm sorry, but he was quite a threat and yet he remained in the area throughout the entire Pirate show and even afterwards.

Well I was standing on deck 11 with my family watching the pirate show (which I thought was a bit too violent) when I look right next to me and see 2 men fighting. It was mostly one raging drunk man who was quite muscular attacking another man. It was quite disturbing and children were crying everywhere. Luckily the man's wife and some other men near by tried to break it up. Then 1 scrawny Disney crew member in his white uniform approached the situation. Sadly, the fight broke out again. It ruined the whole pirate show for my family and everyone around me! When I looked around, only the crowd around he fight and the people surrounding it on deck 12 noticed it. 10 minutes later, the 1 lone security guard came and was talking to the flaming man who had started the fight. When we left for the night the crew member in white was still taking notes.
It seemed as though the cast members knew what to do but since it was such an unusual event were not on there guard. It's so unfortunate that someone had to get that drunk and cause a disturbance on such a lovely cruise. What really bothered me was seeing that same man walking around the ship for the remainder of the cruise.

Yes! My family was in a similar spot on deck 12 and it completely upset me. I'm pretty sure my kids thought it was part of the show - which I agree was much more violent and scary than I thought it would be. I couldn't believe that only one VERY SKINNY cast member (dressed as an officer type) stepped in and didn't call anyone else? I kept commenting that earlier in the week I saw someone drop a drink in a glass glass and about 5 CMs were there in 2 seconds blocking off the area and cleaning everything up. (as expected for Disney). Then when someone gets beat up in full view of the entire ship no one is around? So so so surprising. We won't be going to pirate night again. That whole scene was mishandled

I was on Deck 12 that night also. By the time we got out of dinner there wasn't anywhere to stand by the rail so we were back a few people and didn't see the fight below. But the next day at the adult pool area (Deck 13) I heard one of the families involved talking and saying they were going to press charges on the guy who started the fight. Apparently one of the men he hit was a priest. She kept saying that DCL should tell the guy he hit a man of the cloth. Personally I don't think it matters who he hit, but she kept stressing that he was a priest. It can happen anywhere, but Disney should be ready for any situation.

I was on Deck 11 about ten feet from the fight. There were so many people, I didn't even know until my DH told me. My SIL was rightthere and grabbed her child away. She didn't know what it was about either. However, we were quite shocked to see the fighters roaming the shop afterward. We thought they would be removed.

My wife and I also witnessed the fight from deck 12. As a law enforcement officer I started to try to get to the lower deck but it was broken up by the time I got to the steps. The amazing thing to me that after the fight was broken up the 1st time and the Officer was there, when it started the second time, he just watched while members of the crowd tried to stop it. Upon returning to my room that night, I contacted guest services and offered to be a witness to the assualt, which the 2nd fight was. Never heard back from guest services..

I repeat.you don't know why the fight started and what happened behind the scenes.........what you have posted is that he was around after...........and their opinion that he should not have been....They ALSO don't know what went on behind the scenes and or why it started.!


This is not any way saying it should have happened in the first place.........but your statement was Disney didn't handle it......but what Disney didn't do is handle it the way you think they should have....your opinion only!


You don't know what went on behind the scenes either!


AKK

 

[woody73]

I don't put signs or door magnets on my hotel room door for security reason. Why should a cruise cabin be any different?

Image how a door with a cutey "Kids Room" sign or magnet could be used by an attacker.

Especially door signs and magnets with the kid's names and photos.

Woody

 

[eeyoremommy]

What if an ugly person got on? Sorry, I'm not trying to make light of what you said. I mentioned in another comment about Sandusky, though, big guy, powerful in his organization, victims were boys. Victims and attackers come in all shapes, sizes, professions, lifestyles, backgrounds, you name it. I'd suggest that you STOP taking yourself off the elevators (Wayne had a public profile to protect from those wanting a piece of it too, like Big Ben) and be there for those of us smaller folks!!! If I saw you get off the elevator, then realized you did so because I got on (like I saw you end up on the ground floor just a few minutes later), I'd think I forgot my deoderant that day or something!!!

I am sorry because I know this is a very serious thread, but your comment is so funny. I would totally think the same thing or at least think there was something about me that made the person not want to be in the elevator with me. I mean, I know I can be difficult and the filter on my mouth stays in the off position (no cursing though), but still. I'm a lot of fun