Sexual predators at sea

[kcashner]

This young man should have been prosecuted when brought back into the country. Was that done? Because if it wasn't then he could be potentially doing other things with other people in the states.

The FBI was contacted while we were on the ship. When the ship docked, it was met by a Brevard County Sheriff who interviewed my daughter and the other girl. The boy and his family were not allowed off the ship until after they had been interviewed. Ultimately I got a letter from the Brevard County prosecutor's office--as the sheriff's office implied would happen, they opted not to prosecute because while the legal term for what happened was "sexual assault," neither girl had been raped (in my daughter's case, she was grabbed, restrained, and touched), I don't know all the details involving the other girl but it went farther, and because it would be a "her word against his" situation...and because legally it would have to be 2 cases and neither could reference the other. Thus, a jury would only hear each girl separately and not know the other existed. Obviously the fact that there was more than one girl independently complaining about this person...and the history of bad behavior on the ship makes a stronger case.

Security told us a lot of stuff that they probably weren't supposed to, including that DCL charged the family $10K for the trashing of the cat 2 suite. They also put a security detail on my DD for the remainder of the cruise--when she left the dining room to use the restroom, a uniform followed her which was our first clue. She was a little "creaped out" but I pointed out that it was for her safety and she should be glad she wasn't the President's daughter. It later became funny as she'd see "her" people on future cruises and joke with them about following her. I have nothing but praise for the way DCL handled things. They also put security people on the teen beach on Castaway.

Yes, I'm well aware that DCL won't book a room/suite for minors, but most of us know that they do allow parents to do the "shuffle" as to who sleeps where. DCL was also quite convinced that this boy was getting alcohol from somewhere, but as far as we knew they never determined where for sure. They suspected an older brother...

As to whether it is true that the family was banned...all I can tell you is what we were told by the then head of security on the Magic, a former Scotland Yard (officer/agent/not sure of right term here). And he told us what he'd like to do but DCL wouldn't allow.....I do have the letter from Brevard County saying that they had chosen to not prosecute.

 

[UmmGooD]

The FBI was contacted while we were on the ship. When the ship docked, it was met by a Brevard County Sheriff who interviewed my daughter and the other girl. The boy and his family were not allowed off the ship until after they had been interviewed. Ultimately I got a letter from the Brevard County prosecutor's office--as the sheriff's office implied would happen, they opted not to prosecute because while the legal term for what happened was "sexual assault," neither girl had been raped (in my daughter's case, she was grabbed, restrained, and touched), I don't know all the details involving the other girl but it went farther, and because it would be a "her word against his" situation...and because legally it would have to be 2 cases and neither could reference the other. Thus, a jury would only hear each girl separately and not know the other existed. Obviously the fact that there was more than one girl independently complaining about this person...and the history of bad behavior on the ship makes a stronger case.

I am thankful you reported him. I am a little appalled that he sexually assaulted 2 different girls from two different families and they thought there wouldn't be a case. PLEASE!

I really wonder how much I could keep my cool if this happened to my daughter.

 

[pjacobi]

The girl in the CNN interview said that the incident occurred while she was alone in a locked cabin. The attacker uses a master keycard to enter the cabin.

Does RCCL or DCL cabin door have a deadbolt lock, like most hotel room doors, that would prevent anyone with a keycard from entering the room? This simple security measure is a way to prevent such and attacks. This serves as a reminder to make full use of available security devices.


-Paul

 

[woody73]

. . . If you think about it, what's to stop a child sexual predator from booking a cabin on DCL? Absolutely nothing.

You're right.

Passenger indicted for sexual abuse.

Woody

 

[kcashner]

The girl in the CNN interview said that the incident occurred while she was alone in a locked cabin. The attacker uses a master keycard to enter the cabin.

Does RCCL or DCL cabin door have a deadbolt lock, like most hotel room doors, that would prevent anyone with a keycard from entering the room? This simple security measure is a way to prevent such and attacks. This serves as a reminder to make full use of available security devices.


-Paul

DCL cabins can be locked from the inside. When locked in this way, the host's key card won't work. Of course, mom and dad's keys won't work either, so kid needs to wake up to let them in!

 

[mmouse37]

I read on another site about a website you could go to that show every "reported" incident (I believe) by cruise line, ship, and year. There were incidents for DCL as well all of the major cruise lines. I would imagine that kcashner's event (I don't want to call it tragic, but somehow disgusting doesn't seem strong enough. Incident belittles what happened as well.) was among the list. I know that she has mentioned it on the boards before.

As OPs have mentioned, some parents (not kcashner) are lulled into a false sense of security on a ship. I have seen posters make the following analogy. A parent would not allow their young child, pre-teen, or even teenager run around unsupervised at all hours of the day and night in small city. Why would a parent then feel it is safe to do so on a cruise ship? Those same elements from the city still exist except they are now at sea instead of on land.

Parents must talk to the kids (even teens) about going to other people's rooms, etc. Your kid can only be as safe as you encourage them to be.

It isn't a Royal Caribbean problem or a Carnival problem or a Disney problem. It occurs throughout the cruise industry. They should do what they can. As a PP pointed out, a good amount of the threat does not come from the crew. It is our job as parents to keep our kids safe. We have to be vigilant and do our jobs. The cruise lines can only do so much.

Here is the website:

www.cruisejunkie.com

It lists all reported incidents in the cruise industry.

MJ

 

[Ready to go]

I work in the Court system and often deal with sex offenders. My kids have always thought I have been overprotective but, I see the deviousness of sex offenders, and their grooming techniques and schemes are astounding. I would like to say that because my sons are older teens I am not so concerned any longer-but it would be a lie!!!! I also would like more than anything to think that when I am on a cruise my children are safe (and be able to relax), but I just cannot get past what I see on a daily basis and know that it is not true. While I am not as concerned about the Cast members on a cruise, I remain leary of anyone my children meet and would advise all parents to remain the same!!!!

 

[NWmom]

I would add that many times teen sexual offenders that are female are not prosecuted as thoroughly as the males are.

They are out there, just they do not get convicted as easily because of the stereotype that cute teen girls could not possibly have done that.

Please be cautious of both sexes.

Also registered sex offenders are only the ones that were not smart enough to avoid being caught.

The offenders that have not gotten caught yet are still out there.

Protect your children the same as if they were at home, in your neighborhood, at the mall, etc.

 

[*TheWigs*]

I am an ER nurse and my husband is a Sgt with our local police dept...we pity the stupid individual that would DARE to touch our children. That individual would be LUCKY to have the FBI deal with them!! ...We would extend the same "courtesy" to ANY child that fell victim with either of us within grabbing distance!! Nowhere is "safe" and it boils down to teaching your children to trust their instincts, but sometimes the bad guy does finish first despite all the warnings.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The recent "fight on pirate night" thread could argue otherwise! Public display of fistfighting with no evidence there were any penalties for the participants.

Seems you draw a opinion without fact.......NO one on line or who saw the fight knows what happened after the fact or behind the scenes, in the fight between those two fools., so you can't say what happened afterward and what penalties may have been incurred..


AKK

 

[disneyholic family]

I saw that also. I do agree with what they said about parents feeling a false sense of security on a cruise ship and allowing their kids to roam freely (I've experienced this first hand on several occasions on DCL). Parents need to exercise the same amount of caution as they would if they took their kids to a mall or to a theme park. I'm sure there have been incidents on DCL as with any cruise line. Check out the events at sea website.

the false sense of security is so very true - it's amazing what people let their kids do on the ship by themselves...
it's one thing if there are two kids together, but alone should be out of the question...

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

What this all comes down to...........no matter where you are............where your kids are.......you have to be careful.........teach them how to protect themselves and avoid putting themselves into a situation where they could be harmed.

I have only had one problem with a older teen bothering my daughter at WDW.
I talked to the pool lifeguard and within 2 minutes a security gal was talking to us and in 5 minutes, I saw the teen and his parents(at least I think it was his parents), be escorted out of the pool area.


AKK

 

[Tinknalli]

Presisely why I would never get a separate cabin for my children. Not worth the risk.

 

[gigi1313]

Disney, of course, does not allow only children in a cabin. It seems to be common for people to reserve two cabins in two adults name, then switch the occupants. Here is a clear example of why that is against Disney policy. Of course, the reason people switch is "everyone does it" or "Disney doesn't enforce it." Too bad people don't do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because they might be caught!!

The teenage boy was wrong, and has a sad life ahead of him. Sounds like the parents share the blame here. The parents clearly are teaching their kids the wrong thing (by cheating on the room arrangements), I suspect they provided a lot of other bad examples in life that led to this behavior. Shame on him, and on them. Good for DCL for banning the entire family (if that's true).

Jftr, in May on the Fantasy, DCL openly permitted us to switch cabin occupants for my two teens to be in one room and DH, our four y.o. and I to be in another... We did not "cheat" on room assignments.

 

[CandyMandy]

Seems you draw a opinion without fact.......NO one on line or who saw the fight knows what happened after the fact or behind the scenes, in the fight between those two fools

I respectfully disagree, here is the original thread for those who want to review the entire discussion:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2951179

And for those who want the "Cliff Notes" version, here are direct quotes from the thread on what happened both during the altercation and afterwards, which clearly show there was significant concern over the perceived lack of subsequent consequences for the fight participants, who did engage in behavior that was grossly inappropriate. They were not removed from the ship or confined:

At first, punches were thrown and a DCL CM along with guests in the area were able to break it up.....this is when MANY other DCL CM's needed to show up. After a minute or so, the large muscular guy broke away and started beating the guy to the ground.....HARD! Kids were crying and very upset. Even as far away as we were, my daughter was very upset just witnessing it and seeing the guy remain there! I believe they removed the guy that was beaten up, because I didn't see him anymore....but the one doing the beating even removed his belt and wrapped it around his fist with the buckle facing out. I'm sorry, but he was quite a threat and yet he remained in the area throughout the entire Pirate show and even afterwards.

Well I was standing on deck 11 with my family watching the pirate show (which I thought was a bit too violent) when I look right next to me and see 2 men fighting. It was mostly one raging drunk man who was quite muscular attacking another man. It was quite disturbing and children were crying everywhere. Luckily the man's wife and some other men near by tried to break it up. Then 1 scrawny Disney crew member in his white uniform approached the situation. Sadly, the fight broke out again. It ruined the whole pirate show for my family and everyone around me! When I looked around, only the crowd around he fight and the people surrounding it on deck 12 noticed it. 10 minutes later, the 1 lone security guard came and was talking to the flaming man who had started the fight. When we left for the night the crew member in white was still taking notes.
It seemed as though the cast members knew what to do but since it was such an unusual event were not on there guard. It's so unfortunate that someone had to get that drunk and cause a disturbance on such a lovely cruise. What really bothered me was seeing that same man walking around the ship for the remainder of the cruise.

Yes! My family was in a similar spot on deck 12 and it completely upset me. I'm pretty sure my kids thought it was part of the show - which I agree was much more violent and scary than I thought it would be. I couldn't believe that only one VERY SKINNY cast member (dressed as an officer type) stepped in and didn't call anyone else? I kept commenting that earlier in the week I saw someone drop a drink in a glass glass and about 5 CMs were there in 2 seconds blocking off the area and cleaning everything up. (as expected for Disney). Then when someone gets beat up in full view of the entire ship no one is around? So so so surprising. We won't be going to pirate night again. That whole scene was mishandled

I was on Deck 12 that night also. By the time we got out of dinner there wasn't anywhere to stand by the rail so we were back a few people and didn't see the fight below. But the next day at the adult pool area (Deck 13) I heard one of the families involved talking and saying they were going to press charges on the guy who started the fight. Apparently one of the men he hit was a priest. She kept saying that DCL should tell the guy he hit a man of the cloth. Personally I don't think it matters who he hit, but she kept stressing that he was a priest. It can happen anywhere, but Disney should be ready for any situation.

I was on Deck 11 about ten feet from the fight. There were so many people, I didn't even know until my DH told me. My SIL was rightthere and grabbed her child away. She didn't know what it was about either. However, we were quite shocked to see the fighters roaming the shop afterward. We thought they would be removed.

My wife and I also witnessed the fight from deck 12. As a law enforcement officer I started to try to get to the lower deck but it was broken up by the time I got to the steps. The amazing thing to me that after the fight was broken up the 1st time and the Officer was there, when it started the second time, he just watched while members of the crowd tried to stop it. Upon returning to my room that night, I contacted guest services and offered to be a witness to the assualt, which the 2nd fight was. Never heard back from guest services..

 

[over50visits]

Jftr, in May on the Fantasy, DCL openly permitted us to switch cabin occupants for my two teens to be in one room and DH, our four y.o. and I to be in another... We did not "cheat" on room assignments.

I understand...one of the rules (such as saving seats or dining dress) that Disney does not enforce, and of course CMs don't want to offend (I think some cruisers will reduce tips or provide bad feedback if a CM asks them to follow the rules!).

However, from the DCL website, FAQ:
--------------------------
Booking & Reservations
Question
How many people can stay in one stateroom?
Answer
All Disney staterooms are designed with the family in mind, providing substantially more space for relaxation than you'd find on most other cruise ships. Depending upon the stateroom, anywhere from 2 to 7 Guests can occupy a stateroom, which must include at least one adult.
-----------------------------

As with many of their policies, this one is crystal clear to me. But...not what this thread is about. I just wanted to note note that poor examples set by adults do not go unnoticed by their children, and in the extreme can lead to tragic consequences.

 

[Gdes1]

I think most people feel a false sense of security while on a cruise ship. In reality, you should behave no differently than if you were at a hotel. That's all a ship is....a floating hotel.

If I attended a bachelorette party at a hotel, and my friend was tipsy and heading to her room alone, I would suggest others walk with her. Therefore, I should do the same on a cruise. Yet, most people don't exercise that caution because we somehow feel so safe.

And, please don't forget, sexual predators are everywhere. The boy who assaulted kcashner's daughter is one, whether or not he ever gets prosecuted. They are also fathers, uncles, grandfathers, and even mothers/women can be predators.

Everyone is on the lookout for the creepy single man traveling alone, but what about the nice father in the cabin next door? How do you know he's not going to send his wife to the pool with the kids and then drag an unsuspecting woman or girl into his cabin? Not trying to scare everyone, I'm just saying that you really can't trust anyone.

 

[Tower]

Everyone is on the lookout for the creepy single man traveling alone, but what about the nice father in the cabin next door? How do you know he's not going to send his wife to the pool with the kids and then drag an unsuspecting woman or girl into his cabin? Not trying to scare everyone, I'm just saying that you really can't trust anyone.

I am reminded of a story about Wayne Gretzky that I heard years ago that, if he were riding an elevator alone and an attractive woman entered alone from another floor, he would step out of the elevator to avoid any possible 'stories' that may have occurred whether he did or did not do anything.
I am a bit of a giant at 6'5" tall and my work requires a fair amount of physical strength. Since I heard that story about the Great One, I try to follow that modus operandi as it would likely make the girl feel better than to have a burly fellow in close quarters, and it removes me from any liability if I'm accused of anything.
The only crux to it all is that I trust myself, naturally, but if someone else gets into the elevator with the young lady with malicious intent, I'm no longer there to protect her (I'm a dad, it's inherent in me)

 

[kgoldenh]

What bothered me the most about the interview was the young woman stating she did not want to "ruin" the cruise for her family. How awful to experience anything like that and not be able to tell a parent immediately. Although we have many family discussions about this - we may now have another. I want my kids to know nothing will be "ruined" by one of them speaking up from the get go.

 

[UmmGooD]

What bothered me the most about the interview was the young woman stating she did not want to "ruin" the cruise for her family. How awful to experience anything like that and not be able to tell a parent immediately. Although we have many family discussions about this - we may now have another. I want my kids to know nothing will be "ruined" by one of them speaking up from the get go.

I agree that she shouldn't have been worried about telling her parents for the 'ruin'. Even though I couldn't say to my kids that the cruise wouldn't be 'ruined' because I would probably definitely be spending a lot of time with the ship staff until I was satisfied with the outcome and to a child that could be construed as 'ruined'.

I think the way I would approach the discussion is to tell my kids "You are so much more important to me than a vacation, item, whatever that if ANYTHING or ANYONE does anything to you that hurts you I want to know. I want to be able to care for you and protect you and not knowing doesn't allow me to do that. A cruise is something that is fun but it is not what is important."