Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[minnie61650]

.......It is those people who take advantage of the system that I hope feel really guilty when they see someone who is truly in need. .......

Yep, I know I'm going to get blasted.....

Please know I am not trying to blast you but I would like to tlet you and others know that the only advantage guests who use WC's/ECV's is they have a place to sit when touring the parks.


Is using a WC/EVC to make ones vacation less painful/to help with mobility/ and or stanima really taking advantage of the system?
What perks does a guest in WC/ EVC really gain?

This quote was posted on the disABILITIES board.

I have a trip planned for August. I have been only a partial participant in many family trips and adventures due to stamina and distance issues.
Like you I feared what "others would think", my own expectations and self image as well as my families.

after visiting these boards and pondering it How exactly is my using a wheelchair or scooter bothering or taking away from anyone else???
How am I taking advantage? I still pay the same to get in, I still wait in the same lines, still need to get to fireworks early to find a spot..
maybe I don't know about some hidden "perks" of having a chair or scooter but as I understand thus far the only effect I will have is taking up a bit more space in line.
But I won't need that space on the park bench for 5 hours now so you may have a shady place to sit!!
If you can not participate in your family vacation without a chair,scooter or GAC then GET ONE!
These things are designed not as "extras" but to allow EVERYONE to experience the magic of disney.
It provides equal access and opportunity.
Wee! I am so excited my kids are laughing at me!

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With the exception of The Make A Wish Children there is no front of the line pass.

Here is a quote from SueM in MN who is a moderator of the disABILITIES board.

That is a common misconception that people with wheelchairs and ECVs get moved to the front, but it's not true.
People using wheelchairs or ECVs don't get out of waiting in line.
Most of the lines at WDW are wheelchair accessible, so there are very few situations where someone actually goes thru a wheelchair entrance. In most cases, they wait in the same line with everyone else. For a very few attractions, there is an alternate entrace because the regular one isn't accessible and was not able to be made accessible (most in MK or Epcot since they were built before accessibility was thought of). There are some others, where the boarding area is not accessible and wheelchair/ECV users wait in the regular or Fastpass line and then are pulled into a different area for loading (Buzz Lightyear, Haunted Mansion and Splash Mountain are examples).

One of the other things that people who don't use wheelchairs don't know is where people with wheelchairs go when they are taken out of the line. They assume those people who 'disappear' from the line are boarding right away, but that is not usually the case.
If they can't board at the regular boarding spot, they are pulled out of the line - usually just before the regular line gets to the boarding area (so they have already waited as long as everyone that got in the line the same time as they did).
For example, at Buzz Lightyear, the 'pull off point' is after you have gone thru the room with the large Buzz Lightyear, near the point where regular line is beginning to enter the actual boarding area. Guests with wheelchairs/ ECVs are pulled out of line at that point and sent to the exit - not to board right away, but to wait. If there are too many people with disabilities already on the attraction, you have to wait for some to get off (for fire safetly and evacuation reasons). Because our DD can't get out of her wheelchair easily, we have to wait extra for a special car that the wheelchair can be loaded on. We usually see the people who were right ahead of us in line getting off after riding while we are still waiting to board. In some rides, boarding at the accessible area means you miss part of the attraction; for example, at Haunted Mansion, you miss the entire 'stretching room' part of the attraction.

The Safari at AK is notorious for extra waits for people with disabilities. Our longest wait there was an EXTRA 40 minutes at a time when the regular line was walk on and Safari Trams were pulling out partially loaded because people were not walking up fast enough to fill them.

Spaceship Earth is a ride with a handicapped entrance, but during times when other passengers are able to walk right on, our wait is usually 20-30 minutes.

AK and the Studio were built with what are called 'Mainstream Lines'. These are lines where the regular line is wheelchair/ECV accessible and a person using a wheelchair or ECV waits in the same line with everyone else.

Here's what it says in the official WDW Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities about Mainstream Lines and the list of attractions with Mainstream Queues:
As you can see, most of the lines are Mainstream Queues:

Magic Kingdom® Park
Ariel's Grotto
Astro Orbiter
Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
Donald's Boat
Judge's Tent
Mickey's Country House
Mickey's PhilharMagic
Mike Fink Keelboats (seasonal)
Minnie's Country House
Pirates of the Caribbean
Space Mountain®
Splash Mountain®
Stitch's Great Escape!™
The Barnstormer at Goofy's Wiseacres Farm
"The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management"
The Hall of Presidents
The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
The Timekeeper (seasonal)
Tomorrowland® Indy Speedway
Toontown Hall of Fame
Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress (seasonal)

Epcot®
FUTURE WORLD
Imagination!: All Attractions
Innoventions East
Innoventions West
Mission: SPACE
Test Track
The Living Seas: All Attractions
The Land: All Attractions
Universe of Energy: "Ellen's Energy Adventure"
Wonders of Life: All Attractions (seasonal)

WORLD SHOWCASE
China: "Reflections of China"
France: "Impressions de France"
FriendShip Boats
Norway: Maelstrom
The American Adventure: "The American Adventure"

Disney-MGM Studios
Disney-MGM Studios Backlot Tour
Fantasmic!
Lights, Motors, Action!™ Extreme Stunt Show
Muppet*Vision 3D
Playhouse Disney - Live On Stage!
Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith
Sounds Dangerous - Starring Drew Carey
Star Tours
The Great Movie Ride
The Magic of Disney Animation
"The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror™"
Voyage of the Little Mermaid
Walt Disney: One Man's Dream
Who Wants To Be A Millionaire - Play It!

Disney's Animal Kingdom® Theme Park
Caravan Stage: "Flights of Wonder"
DINOSAUR
Grandmother Willow's Grove: "Pocahontas and Her forest friends"
It's Tough To Be A Bug
Kali River Rapids
Kilimanjaro Safaris
Lion King Theater: "Festival of the Lion King"
Maharajah Jungle Trek
Primeval Whirl
Theater in the Wild: "Tarzan Rocks!"
The Boneyard
TriceraTop Spin

I wanted to add that Soarin' and EE are missing from the list. They are both Mainstream Access.
And, some attractions have limited number of spots for wheelchairs. We have already shown up for shows where there was still room for ambulatory people, but the wheelchair spots were already filled for that show and we had to wait for the next one (Voyage of the Little Mermaid, where we had Fastpasses; and ITTBAB, where the CMs were practically begging people to come into the queue because there was no wait in the standby line.

 

[DancingBear]

No matter how many people feel they should or shouldn't be used it's a mute point until federal laws are changed.

Pet peeve here: It's "moot," not "mute."

 

[boomhauer]

This is a no-win situation for Disney. They don't allow them, they're discriminating and get sued. They do allow them, people get hurt and they get sued.

I agree with Disney 100% on this one. They allow ECV and wheelchairs. If you don't wanna use one, tough. You're not the only guests in the park.

 

[rantnnravin]

sensible up until this comment:

They allow ECV and wheelchairs. If you don't wanna use one, tough.

this is assuming that a wheelchair or ECV alleviates all conditions; they do not.

 

[erikthewise]

No matter how many people feel they should or shouldn't be used it's a mute point until federal laws are changed.

Pet peeve here: It's "moot," not "mute."

Some of us are wishing it WOULD be a "mute" point!

There is no legal or moral right for a disabled person to have access to their vehicle of choice in all circumstances. They do not have the right to bring a four-wheeled bicycle, ATV, Mini Cooper, riding lawnmower, hovercraft, or Tournament of Roses float into the parks. Nor a Segway.

 

[Karnak]

A story in our local newspaper got my attention with the headline:

DISABLED GUESTS SUE DISNEY WORLD FOR SEGWAY BAN

The article said, in part "Three disabled people have sued Walt Disney World for not allowing them to use Segways to move around its theme parks. The three plaintiffs - a man and woman from Illinois and a woman from Iowa - also asked a federal judge here to allow their complaint to continue as a class-action lawsuit."

"Disney has said it fears Segways could endanger other guests because they can go faster than 12 mph. ... Our primary concern is the safety of all our guests."

Now I know I'm opening up a can of worms with the comment I'm about to make; but here goes anyway ...

Good Grief! If these people win we will have to add another walking hazard to moving around the parks. We have to watch out for children running, adults not watching where they are going, tons of strollers, wheel chairs, ECVs, and kids speeding around in heelies as it is. Add fast moving Segways to the list and it will become even more dangerous to walk around in the parks.

Comments?

Karnak

 

[ajleone]

IMHO its not so much the Segway use as it is the level of competency of the driver. A Segway being driven by a well trained/seasoned driver wouldn't be an issue. But those unused to using one in crowds would be a potential problem.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'll comment. I am not disabled so perhaps I don't have the same perspective as a person who would use a wheelchair or an ECV in the parks, but I would not advocate segways for anyone in theme parks. There has got to be a learning curve on one of those machines and the possibility if hurting someone is way greater than with an ECV. I think that the parks should be accessible and from my visits it seems to me that they are. Disney offers a lot of assistance to those who need it, and to sue because the mode of transportation is not what you would prefer is not valid, IMHO.

I just got a vision of a herd of segways racing down Main Street adn it was not pretty

 

[Mickiethepooh]

I'll comment. I am not disabled so perhaps I don't have the same perspective as a person who would use a wheelchair or an ECV in the parks, but I would not advocate segways for anyone in theme parks. There has got to be a learning curve on one of those machines and the possibility if hurting someone is way greater than with an ECV. I think that the parks should be accessible and from my visits it seems to me that they are. Disney offers a lot of assistance to those who need it, and to sue because the mode of transportation is not what you would prefer is not valid, IMHO.

I just got a vision of a herd of segways racing down Main Street adn it was not pretty

I use an Electric wheelchair at home and a 3 wheel ECV when I am out and my condition would not allow a SEGWAY.
BUT, those disabled guests that would be ON SEGWAYS if they were allowed would be trained better than the SEGWAY group Disney now has because they would live on these things day to day. I am sure they would be better on them than the Disney CM you see whipping around the parks on them now.

This lawsuit is not over the idea of Disney renting them to people, it is allowing them for Disabled people who already own and use them every day.

THere are also standing wheelchairs that cost about ten times as much as SEGWAYS too, Disney can't refurse those legally.

I think those sueing are going about it the wrong way, get the SEGWAYS accepted by the government under the ADA rules and then Theme parks or anyone else will not be an issue.

 

[SueM in MN]

This lawsuit is not over the idea of Disney renting them to people, it is allowing them for Disabled people who already own and use them every day.

There is no reason that Disney would have to rent Segways to anyone and I don´t think Disney´s concern is over those people who own their own Segway and use it every day.
IMHO, their concern is because of all the outside companies that will spring up to rent Segways just the way that there are outside companies renting ECVS. I think that is their biggest worry because they will have no control about the amount of experience or the speed those people have.

 

[Nancyg56]

This lawsuit is not over the idea of Disney renting them to people, it is allowing them for Disabled people who already own and use them every day.

THere are also standing wheelchairs that cost about ten times as much as SEGWAYS too, Disney can't refurse those legally.

I think those sueing are going about it the wrong way, get the SEGWAYS accepted by the government under the ADA rules and then Theme parks or anyone else will not be an issue.

So you are saying that Disney would allow those who own them to use them in the parks, not make them available for rent the way ECV's and wheelchairs are available now? My concern would be that those who do not use them regularly would be renting them as somewhat of a lark and with the crowd levels the way they sometimes are I would be concerned if that was the circumstance. My mistake

 

[CanadianGuy]

There is already an active thread on this located here on the Rumors & News board..

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1634152

I'm going to merge these two threads.

Thanks,

Knox

 

[SueM in MN]

So you are saying that Disney would allow those who own them to use them in the parks, not make them available for rent the way ECV's and wheelchairs are available now? My concern would be that those who do not use them regularly would be renting them as somewhat of a lark and with the crowd levels the way they sometimes are I would be concerned if that was the circumstance. My mistake

Disney would not have to rent them, but there would be outside companies set up to rent them the same way that outside companies rent ECVs.
So, there would be people who do not use them regularly being able to rent them from inside companies and bring them into the parks.
Disney has the speed set low on the ECVs they rent, but the ones rented from outside companies go much faster. I´m sure that experience is also a concern for Disney.

 

[nanlou]

I wonder if you'd park your Segway with the strollers when you wanted to go on a ride?

 

[mousecrazy2006]

What happens when the magic gets to be too much for the Segway rider? When they are looking at all of the details and themeing and do not see the small child walk out in front of them at 10 to 12 mph? Sorry I cannot support the use of segways in the crowded park conditions. I have walked in front of people, wheelchairs, and ecv's when Ihave been distracted by the magic. It's all about safety.

 

[Disney8704]

Found this article online. This just to go show everyone, people will sue someone for very stupid reasons! I cant see this lawsuit holding up.

Disabled guests sue Disney on Segway ban

by Justin Glow Nov 12th 2007 @ 2:00PM
A while back, Disneyworld made the decision to ban Segways from the park because "they can go faster than 12 mph" which is a danger to other guests. And now three disabled people are, of course, suing the company.

"The suit filed Friday says they're among an estimated 4,000 to 7,000 similarly disabled people who have turned to Segways as mobility tools," according to an article by the AP.

Okay, I can understand that it might be an inconvenience to not be able to use a Segway when you're used to riding one, but Disneyworld is a private company who has made a decision that's in the best interests of the majority. It's not like they're banning wheelchairs. There is a solution, however. If the problem with Segways is the speed, why not have an arsenal of speed-governed Segways that can be loaned out to guests. You could even paint them to look like Goofy or something.

 

[Webbie]

I can't see how Segways are going to work in Disney. Just picture the crowd after the last fireworks, all trying to get out of the park. Now picture segways trying to weave in and out of the crowd. Or should I say the mass of human bodies! One can barely get a baby stroller through the crowd. I for one would not be too happy about being run over by a segway.

 

[Bill From PA]

"If the problem with Segways is the speed, why not have an arsenal of speed-governed Segways that can be loaned out to guests."

The Segways used on the Segway tours have governors, we've ridden them this March on a Segway Tour, and they're still too dangerous in a crowd, IMHO. My 78 yr old mom hopped on a Jazzy for the first time ever on our 2004 trip and rode it like a veteran, without incident. No way would this happen with a Segway, Disney could not verify in advance that one of these lawsuit happy visitors were really skilled Segway users, nor should they. Wheelchairs and their electric counterparts are safe and widely available. All businesses like Disney have to make accomodations for the disabled, they don't have to make the specific accomodation that an individual might desire.

Bill From PA

 

[mx3man123]

Stupid lawsuits like this bug me. Disney will have to fight it off with their lawyers who cost a furtune. That expense will be passed on to us visitors with more expensive tickets and more expensive food etc.....

 

[jberry5]

Had Disney not already been in a relationship with Segways, I would have guessed this was an advertising stunt. Disney has alternate accomodations for those unable to walk through their parks, so you wouldn't think anything much would come of this lawsuit. HOWEVER, remember, people have won settlements in the court systems over coffee that was, believe it or not, HOT!