Segways spark suit vs. Disney

This was discussed on the Disunplugged a couple of weeks ago. Disney is protecting themselves and their guests by banning these.

If someone is hit by one who are they going to sue? The driver of the Segway or Disney. It will be Disney every time.

If they did allow them, you would have people that didn't need to use them riding them all over the park and people getting hurt because of them.

Isn't it amazing the number of ways people think of to sue someone.

OH NO! Now I will get sued becuase I think they should be banned at Disney (except for tours, official and demo use). :scared1:
 
Had Disney not already been in a relationship with Segways, I would have guessed this was an advertising stunt. Disney has alternate accomodations for those unable to walk through their parks, so you wouldn't think anything much would come of this lawsuit. HOWEVER, remember, people have won settlements in the court systems over coffee that was, believe it or not, HOT!

Remember that those lawsuits (one I am thinking of in particular) were overturned and they ended up having to pay way more money then they were even getting in the first place. Serves them right.
The most ridiculous thing is that these cases even make it to court. They should be laughed right out of there.

I for one wouldn't want people on Segways all over the park. Seems dangerous to me.
 
Found this article online. This just to go show everyone, people will sue someone for very stupid reasons! I cant see this lawsuit holding up.
It should be a pretty short trial. Segways aren't recognized by the FDA as medical devices. End of argument.

There's a wheelchair called the iBOT that uses the same technology as a Segway. They are approved by the FDA as medical devices, and consequently, they are allowed in the parks and on property.

HOWEVER, remember, people have won settlements in the court systems over coffee that was, believe it or not, HOT!
In the case I think you're thinking of, it wasn't that the coffee was merely hot -- but hot enough to cause third-degree burns after seconds of contact.
 
You're absolutely right. Businesses only have to accommodate disabilities, e.g., wheelchair access. I can see people claiming to be handicapped just to ride Segways in the parks. As it is, we have witnessed people using wheelchairs to get ahead of the line to access the buses, and later see them running around and changing the person to be the disabled one in the wheelchair. These were people in their 30's.
 

I've merged two similar threads here.

Thanks,

Knox
 
.... As it is, we have witnessed people using wheelchairs to get ahead of the line to access the buses, and later see them running around and changing the person to be the disabled one in the wheelchair. These were people in their 30's.

FYI

If a guest uses a wheel chair to access a bus the chair is not a park rented wheel chair. The wheel chairs and ECV's that are rented in the parks are not allowed outside the park gate.
That means the guest would have to plan ahead of time and bring their own wheel chair /mobility scooter or rent a wheel chair / mobility scooter from an off site company.
There is a limited amount of Wheel chairs at the resorts and the guest would have to make arrangements to use of those.

I would just like to add that there are a lot of hidden disabilities and even people in their 30's can have heart conditions, cancer, MS ,and ALS among other diseases or disabilities.

Just my 2 cents.
 
One point that I've seen missed on all the above - the highly increased possibility of injury to the Segway rider. When I did the Segway Experience, our group received a compliment in that it was the first time in a month that nobody fell, tripped, slid or rubbed wheels (which will dump two people at once!). The fact is, a Segway is more like a moped or motorized bicycle than a wheelchair. And if you've never ridden one - trust me that you wouldn't want to stand like that all day.

Additionally, if cities have the ability to ban them on their streets, then surely a business have the right to ban them within their business?

I love the Segway - but not in a crowded place like the parks.

Brian
 
The main thing is that the segway is not a recognized Handicapped mobility device by the local or federal government nor has the manufacturer registered to have it designated. Until it is recognized as such their claims under the ADA are pointless. If Disney has meet all the requirements that are outlined under the ADA (which I’m certain they have) than the suite will be dismissed. No one is disputing the rights of disabled persons but the ADA was established so that companies would have a set of guild lines to work with. I work for a property management company and we have our insurance company do a regular audit on our sites to ensure that we are meeting our responsibilities to the general public that come into our buildings.

Back ground -
My Grand Mother was a double amputee and confined to a wheelchair
My Grand father broke his back in an elevator accident and walked with a cane
My father was a partial amputee and walked with a walker
So I understand the difficulties that faced and take the requirements of the ADA very seriously.
 
This is a no-win situation for Disney. They don't allow them, they're discriminating and get sued. They do allow them, people get hurt and they get sued.

Segways at Disney are a very bad idea and I believe that if Disney is given an edict by the court system to allow them, then any injuries that occur to guests involving these vehicles will be directly accountable to the individuals operating them - not Disney. Those individuals operating these Segways better be prepared to be sued if they cause injury. If I happen to be one of those injured, the person causing the injury better hold on to their hats..:mad:
 
FYI

If a guest uses a wheel chair to access a bus the chair is not a park rented wheel chair. The wheel chairs and ECV's that are rented in the parks are not allowed outside the park gate.
That means the guest would have to plan ahead of time and bring their own wheel chair /mobility scooter or rent a wheel chair / mobility scooter from an off site company.
There is a limited amount of Wheel chairs at the resorts and the guest would have to make arrangements to use of those.

I would just like to add that there are a lot of hidden disabilities and even people in their 30's can have heart conditions, cancer, MS ,and ALS among other diseases or disabilities.

Just my 2 cents.

I absolutely agree with you 100% that there are many hidden disabilities that are endured by people of all ages. In this particular case, without going into extensive detail, it was quite obvious that these people were abusing wheelchair priorities. I only mentioned the age to show that they were old enough to have known better. Anyone can borrow or rent a wheelchair outside Disney World.

iuki
 
It always amazes me how new technology has to fight for its place among us. As many times as I have been run over by ECVs out of control or people running with double wide strollers and yet you seem to think that Segways are dangerous. It is amazing what a youtube video can do to convince people that something is not as it seems. Having run a Segway business I can tell you that there are people who have a difficult time on a Segway. These same people have a hard time with most new things especially if they are balance related. I saw the same treatment given to snowboards when they first arrived on the ski slopes and it took years before people realized it was no more dangerous than skiing. Segways can be limited to a slow key and have great deal of agility in a crowd. As a mater of fact, if you try to run someone over they just need to push on your handle bar to move you away from them. Being run over by a Segway wheel hurts less to me than being stepped on by high heels or run over by an ECV and the small wheels they have. I am sure that someday this will be looked at as just a brick in the road for the mobility of people with disabilities, especially all the wounded vets now learning to glide on a Segway.

You should all check out DRAFT at their website http://www.draft.org and see why Disney will lose this battle eventually.

I have more miles on a Segway than many have in cars and I will admit that there are people who cannot use a Segway safely but I can pick them out before they even try. So can Disney after all the tours they have run. A simple certification program is all that is needed. :moped:
 
You should all check out DRAFT at their website http://www.draft.org and see why Disney will lose this battle eventually.
Since the inventor and the manufacturer have both stated they have no intention of attempting to get the Segway certified as a disabled mobility device your retailer's trade association group will not get much support.

I have more miles on a Segway than many have in cars and I will admit that there are people who cannot use a Segway safely but I can pick them out before they even try. So can Disney after all the tours they have run. A simple certification program is all that is needed. :moped:
I would suggest you read the ADA. Disney cannot, if the device is certified as a medical device, ask for proof of disability. Also, Disney cannot, if it is a medical device, legally ascertain that a person can use the thing.

And what is to stop a "me first" person from putting a green cap on a red key? Unfortunately I have seen companies (in Las Vegas) advertise ECVs with the concept of "tour all day, save your strength and party all night". I can see the same thing here.

I am an ECV user and am in the parks (not just for work) over 100 days a year. In an ECV I am at the level where I can see small children. Also, I am paying attention to the area in front of me. Too many tourists, and they are the ones who run into people, are paying attention to the design/decoration/entertainment and not to the road in front of them

If you have a tourist on a Segway not paying 100% attention to where they are going they will run into children, and at 12MPH (or even 5MPH) that will cause injuries.
 
To Cheshire Figment:

As you pointed out, the ADA has not certified them for use as a mobility device so Disney could require a test of ability for Segways. Draft is not an organization devoted to Segways, but instead uses technology (the Segway is one of many devices used) to help the disabled. The Disabled want to be empowered and as such should be able to choose their own method of mobility.

I want to know how many of you have been run over by a Segway?

How many have been hit by an ECV besides me?:confused3
 
the ADA has not certified them for use as a mobility device.
There is nothing certified by the ADA. Any certification of a medical device is done by the manufacturer. The ADA only requires that people with disabilities be given comparable access, and ECVs do this.

I want to know how many of you have been run over by a Segway?
I have known people who have been taking the Segway tours in Epcot to have actually hit people. And this is after an hour of training and in an area with very few guests. And the CMs who use Segways as part of their job (certain park managers as well as some of the parking lot workers) all get at least 16 hours of training by Disney before they are allowed to use them.

How many have been hit by an ECV besides me?:confused3
Probably a lot, because many people a WDW don't pay attention to where they are going. However, I have had quite a few times when I have had my ECV come to a complete stop and somebody has walked directly into me. And I am in a sitting position so I can see children.

Can you promise that all people on a Segway will pay 100% attention to where they are driving and not to the park itself? And that they will be able to see small children who dart away from their parents? It is really a safety issue, and until someone can convince Disney that it is safe for pedestrians or the manufacturer has them certified as medical equipment, you can (and IMNSHO) forget about it.

And, by the way, I followed the link to DRAFT and then the link to some DoT Guidance, which says in part
Also, a transportation provider is not required to permit anyone -- including a person with a disability -- to bring a device onto a vehicle that is too big or that is determined to pose a direct threat to the safety of others.
and apparently Disney has made a determination that unless they are under Disney's control a Segway can be a direct threat to the safety of other Guests.
 
Can you promise that all people on a Segway will pay 100% attention to where they are driving and not to the park itself? And that they will be able to see small children who dart away from their parents?
All of which apply for electric carts as they exist today. I can tell you from painful - very painful - experience that people driving those things are as unqualified as Segway users are at there device. Someone driving their 500+ lb. cart over my foot still hurts even at 5mph.

Worse - the ECV requires even less attention from the operator than a Segway. I would say the electric carts are WORSE for exactly that reason - and we've all witnessed people plowing through groups, running over children, and "drivers" just plain being rude. How many times have we've seen an icebreaker come barrelling through a crowded walkway!?! As the accessablity of these devices has increased, so have to problems. And too are the number of people using these devices for non-medical reasons.

To be very blunt and offend a lot of people here - but something that needs to be said - if Disney can allow some guests to drive a dangerous, uncertified, no-training-required cart because of weight then can can certainly figure out a way for people with other problems to have the same access to the park.
 
OK, I've been reading all the bantering in this post with great interest since I am disabled. That makes me one of the most qualified who has responded to his post. Also prior to my present disability I have driven a Segway so I now how they operate.

From my experience Segways should not be permitted to be driven by anyone in the public areas of any Disney Property, in my anyone I'm also including Disney management. Maybe in a parking lots they're OK but they should not be permitted anywhere there's a lot of people. They have their place but their place is not on Disney Property. Even in slow mode they can turn very rapidly or slow down or speed up depending on the movements of the driver. This is especially true if the driver is observing other things (like Disney attractions) instead of paying 100% attention to driving the Segway.

As far has ECV's are concerned, they also are dangerous but not as bad as Segways. To start with their self balancing so all the driver has to do is steer and control speed so they don't have as much to concentrate on. As mentioned in several other posts they're also much lower so the driver can see other people were asked Segway drivers are much higher and thus are much less likely to see other people.

Electric wheelchairs are probably the safest of all. As a rule their speed is about the same or possibly slower than either of the other means of transportation and they're very maneuverable (can turn around in their own length). Again, the operator is at people level so they can see movement around them selves and since their feet are sticking out their operators take great care not to run into anything.

On this subject of not handicapped people taking advantage of handicapped privileges, I firmly believe everyone who uses handicap privileges should be subject to random checks if their handicap is not obvious. This should apply to parking and any other privilege extended to handicapped people. I've seen too many people abuse the privilege, not only at Disney but at many other places as well. Yes there are people with none obvious handicaps such as heart conditions, diabetes and many others, these people need the privilege but many other people who don't have the privilege or use someone else's handicap permit to abuse the system.

Pardon me if I am a little opinionated on this matter but after becoming handicapped the abuse of the system becomes very obvious. Also the insensitivity of people and places to the handicapped is unbelievable. This is especially obvious in the designed and use of handicapped parking spaces and in the designed of buildings for handicapped access.
 
.......On this subject of not handicapped people taking advantage of handicapped privileges, I firmly believe everyone who uses handicap privileges should be subject to random checks if their handicap is not obvious. This should apply to parking and any other privilege extended to handicapped people. I've seen too many people abuse the privilege, not only at Disney but at many other places as well. Yes there are people with none obvious handicaps such as heart conditions, diabetes and many others, these people need the privilege but many other people who don't have the privilege or use someone else's handicap permit to abuse the system.....

I agree there are people who will use someone else's handicap permit to abuse the system.It is not fair to those who truly need a Handicapped space.


Michigan has been cracking down and periodically checking out the validity of the Handicapped permits making sure that the owner of the permit was either the driver or a passenger in the car that was parked in a handicapped space.

In fact a couple of years ago DH and I took out DD up to her college dorm to move her in. We parked in the handicapped space and I used my walker with the attached seat ( since I have a spinal disability and can only walk about 50-100 feet before I need to sit for a minute) to her dorm room before he started unloading the van. Security came by when he was unloading the van and asked him where the owner of the handicapped permit was. DH explained that he had taken me up to our daughters room and gave him the room #. the Security man came up and checked my divers licence against the permit number and saw they were a match. No big deal. It was nice to know he cared enough to take the time and follow through.

Disney security can and should check the handicapped permits in the handicapped parking area if they feel abuse is taking place.


But under the American Disability Act Disney cannot require a visitor to have a Dr's note or proof of Disability. They also cannot require that a user of an ECV/mobility scooter go through some kind of training or licensing procedure before renting an EVC out to a person who is over 18 years of age. Until/unless that part of the ADA is amended we just need to accept that fact.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Of all the places on earth that would serve as a great testing ground for a whole range of mobility devices - I would think that EPCOT would be at the very top of the list. Testing, displaying and refining new concepts is - after all - the EPCOT mission statement. Instead of flat-out refusing, would not it have made sense for Disney to actualy work with all the group involved? The Segway is not the best answer, but it's probably pretty close. All of the objections raised against it apply to ECV and more so (where people don't even have to pay attention to where they're going) or can and should be fixed (speed regulation). There is such an immediate "they hate Disney so we'll hate them even more" knee-jerk response to the whole situation. It puts Disney in a very bad light.
 
All of which apply for electric carts as they exist today. I can tell you from painful - very painful - experience that people driving those things are as unqualified as Segway users are at there device. Someone driving their 500+ lb. cart over my foot still hurts even at 5mph.

Worse - the ECV requires even less attention from the operator than a Segway. I would say the electric carts are WORSE for exactly that reason - and we've all witnessed people plowing through groups, running over children, and "drivers" just plain being rude. How many times have we've seen an icebreaker come barrelling through a crowded walkway!?! As the accessablity of these devices has increased, so have to problems. And too are the number of people using these devices for non-medical reasons.

To be very blunt and offend a lot of people here - but something that needs to be said - if Disney can allow some guests to drive a dangerous, uncertified, no-training-required cart because of weight then can can certainly figure out a way for people with other problems to have the same access to the park.


I sincerely hope you never have a mobility disability and are forced to eat your own words.

Yes, there are some people who drive ECVs without due care and attention. However, there are also people who walk, push strollers or wheel wheelchairs without due care and attention. Do you think people should have to take a 'walking test' before they're allowed to enter the parks? Because for those of us with disabilities, using a chair or ECV is our 'walking'.

Yes, maybe there are some people who use ECVs when they don't 'need' (and I use the word very loosely) them, but who are you to judge whether or not they do? They may have heart problems, joint damage, fatigue issues or a whole raft of other problems. I don't 'look disabled', I can even walk short distances, but if I don't have my wheelchair, I'll be housebound.

Besides, have you ever ridden through Disney at wheelchair or ECV height? Let me tell you, it's not the picnic everyone seems to think it is. You get a view of backsides, instead of castles; you're fairly regularly ignored; you have to concentrate completely on the crowds around you, rather than the beautiful surroundings (yes, I know some don't, but then they run the risk of getting whinged about on this board); you often wait longer for rides (oh yes, we don't get the wonderful 'front of line' perks that everyone seems to think we do); etc, etc, etc.

Anyway, I think all this is a little besides the point. Under the ADA, Disney must allow ECVs into the park, they are not required to permit Segways to enter as they are not officially disability aids. Segways have added dangers (the speed, the height of the user, the height of centre of gravity etc) that ECVs do not, and unless the item becomes an official disability aid, Disney has every right to refuse them entry, just the same as they can refuse entry to quad bikes (OK, I know they're different things, but I'm just making a point).

Anyway, that's my little rant over, sorry for getting carried away a bit there, I'm just having 'one of those days' and felt rather insulted but some of the earlier posts. Well, it's good to get that off my chest!

Fairy dust to all! :tinker:
 














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