School field trip, bathing suit guidelines

[unhinged]

I never said teens weren't able to function if distracted you all are just trying to look for something to argue about. I think some are trying to nitpick, and that is okay if you can't see (or don't want to admit) the logic in keeping distractions out of the classroom, and why its done, I can and obviously the schools can too.

So how do you explain the logic of it working perfectly well when there is not a dress code?

 

[unhinged]

I'm starting to wonder that myself. Maybe they just want kids 'presentable' (yes, I know that gets defined differently depending on who you ask).

I am curious... those of you who are complaining about dress codes, have you complained to TPTB at all? Tried to organize parents/kids in a fight to change what you don't like?

I do believe it is a red herring.

Adults, especially administrators, want students to dress in their vision of appropriate, so they institute things like dress codes. Students are going to dress in their version of appropriate. It is a decades long struggle. Every single generation, the adults are scandalized by the "young'ins" style of dress, music and whatever. And every single generation of students are going to pick their style of dress specifically to push boundaries. They push against the control factor of the adults.

In our area, removing the boundaries takes away the fun of pushing them. You deal with the few individuals that will go too far. But most importantly, the adults respect the students for their version of what dress should be like and it seems the students respond and actually dress appropriately with nothing hanging out. It may be a little more skin than the adults would like, like spaghetti straps or a bit more thigh, but it is certainly not a distraction. That is just what the adults want to desperately believe.

 

[goofy4prez]

So how do you explain the logic of it working perfectly well when there is not a dress code?

I'm not picking on you or looking to start an arguement, but your statement, "logic of it working perfectly when there is not a dress code" is opinion. There are 13 pages of posts on this thread either for or against and both sides of this issue are based on opinion including yours as well as mine.

(For what it's worth, you have brought some solid comments to the table whether I may or may not agree with all of them).

 

[Dizlvr]

So how do you explain the logic of it working perfectly well when there is not a dress code?

I never said not having a dress code couldn't work.

 

[unhinged]

I never said not having a dress code couldn't work.

I think telling me I am not thinking logically when I said not having a dress code works qualifies as saying you don't believe not having a dress code works.

 

[unhinged]

I'm not picking on you or looking to start an arguement, but your statement, "logic of it working perfectly when there is not a dress code" is opinion. There are 13 pages of posts on this thread either for or against and both sides of this issue are based on opinion including yours as well as mine.

(For what it's worth, you have brought some solid comments to the table whether I may or may not agree with all of them).

Nope, don't think you are picking on me at all. We are having, surprisingly, a very polite discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is an opinion, an opinion that is based on the culture of the area you are living in. I believe I said that somewhere else on the thread too. But it is an opinion held by the majority of those who live here, otherwise there would be shock and groups trying to change things. Uniforms have been brought up several times and then you saw the horror come out. They were roundly voted down.When the majority and I mean 98% send their children to school in spaghetti straps and short shorts, you know it is accepted as normal teen dress.

Our area has traditionally been an area that is very progressive and not very conservative at all. That contributes to the general mindset around here. I am sure if I lived in the bible belt with much more traditional and conservative norms, my opinion would be different, influenced by the culture around me.

I am not against dress codes and would definitely follow it if our schools had one. What I am against are some of the reasons that are listed here on why dress codes are important, such as it is the girl's responsibility to not distract the boys and that we have to have a dress code because a very few parents are idiots.

Girls are not responsible for distracting boys, that is the boy's problem, and deal with those few parents that seem to not get it one on one.

 

[luvsJack]

Nope, don't think you are picking on me at all. We are having, surprisingly, a very polite discussion.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is an opinion, an opinion that is based on the culture of the area you are living in. I believe I said that somewhere else on the thread too. But it is an opinion held by the majority of those who live here, otherwise there would be shock and groups trying to change things. Uniforms have been brought up several times and then you saw the horror come out. They were roundly voted down.When the majority and I mean 98% send their children to school in spaghetti straps and short shorts, you know it is accepted as normal teen dress.

Our area has traditionally been an area that is very progressive and not very conservative at all. That contributes to the general mindset around here. I am sure if I lived in the bible belt with much more traditional and conservative norms, my opinion would be different, influenced by the culture around me.

I am not against dress codes and would definitely follow it if our schools had one. What I am against are some of the reasons that are listed here on why dress codes are important, such as it is the girl's responsibility to not distract the boys and that we have to have a dress code because a very few parents are idiots.

Girls are not responsible for distracting boys, that is the boy's problem, and deal with those few parents that seem to not get it one on one.

Spaghetti straps and short shorts are accepted as normal teen dress here too, OUTSIDE of school. They can't wear it to school, just like I can't wear it to work. That doesn't mean we don't allow our kids to dress pretty much as is done all over the country, just not at school. Our area is hot in the summer and its humid. Kids wear the least amount possible, just NOT at school.

Parents here wanted to throw a fit about uniforms too. Now most parents are glad we have them. Our's are not like those of the Catholic school but still labeled "uniform".

The fingertip rule or the x # of inches from the knee or whatever is a guideline so that they aren't working on the opinion of a teacher/administrator as to what is appropriate. At the college I work for, our students can not be sagging and the girls cannot wear inappropriate--too tight, too short, too low. But because there are no official guidelines, its up to the opinion of the person complaining as to whether it is or isn't appropriate. Dress codes that are specific take out that use of one person's opinion.

 

[unhinged]

Spaghetti straps and short shorts are accepted as normal teen dress here too, OUTSIDE of school. They can't wear it to school, just like I can't wear it to work. That doesn't mean we don't allow our kids to dress pretty much as is done all over the country, just not at school. Our area is hot in the summer and its humid. Kids wear the least amount possible, just NOT at school.

Parents here wanted to throw a fit about uniforms too. Now most parents are glad we have them. Our's are not like those of the Catholic school but still labeled "uniform".

The fingertip rule or the x # of inches from the knee or whatever is a guideline so that they aren't working on the opinion of a teacher/administrator as to what is appropriate. At the college I work for, our students can not be sagging and the girls cannot wear inappropriate--too tight, too short, too low. But because there are no official guidelines, its up to the opinion of the person complaining as to whether it is or isn't appropriate. Dress codes that are specific take out that use of one person's opinion.

Yup, you are proving my point that there are different regional standards. Around here, spaghetti straps, flip flops and short shorts are perfectly ok INSIDE of school. And it has not hindered the educational process at all.

 

[luvsJack]

Yup, you are proving my point that there are different regional standards. Around here, spaghetti straps and short shorts are perfectly ok INSIDE of school. And it has not hindered the educational process at all.

School dress codes are not regional except maybe wherever it is you live. Just about every other region has dress codes in their schools. You keep saying "its normal teen age dress HERE" but its normal teen age dress everywhere.

Having a dress code doesn't hinder the educational process either so I am not sure what your point to that is.

I can imagine that you probably haven't had an issue with the lack of a dress code, but when someone else has that kid who pushes too far and a teacher or administrator feels the need to deem their clothing as inappropriate, the lack of written guidelines and the school personnel using their opinion rather than a written rule is going to be a problem. What is inappropriate in MY opinion may be totally different than what is inappropriate in dd's best friend's mom's opinion and the English teacher may have a totally different opinion than that of the principal. So whose opinion is used?

Written guidelines take away that issue.

 

[Dizlvr]

I think telling me I am not thinking logically when I said not having a dress code works qualifies as saying you don't believe not having a dress code works.

I never once said that not having a dress code doesn't work. I did say that having a dress code is the logical answer to keeping the distraction of body parts hanging out, out of the classroom. You can interpret that however you'd like, but if I didn't actually say something, then I didn't say it

If your school doesn't feel the need to put a dress code in place, hooray for them. That doesn't mean all schools don't feel the need too for reasons stated over and over here. Its getting old, I think its just time to agree to disagree and stop responding to eachother.

 

[Gracie09]

School dress codes are not regional except maybe wherever it is you live. Just about every other region has dress codes in their schools. You keep saying "its normal teen age dress HERE" but its normal teen age dress everywhere.

Having a dress code doesn't hinder the educational process either so I am not sure what your point to that is.

I can imagine that you probably haven't had an issue with the lack of a dress code, but when someone else has that kid who pushes too far and a teacher or administrator feels the need to deem their clothing as inappropriate, the lack of written guidelines and the school personnel using their opinion rather than a written rule is going to be a problem. What is inappropriate in MY opinion may be totally different than what is inappropriate in dd's best friend's mom's opinion and the English teacher may have a totally different opinion than that of the principal. So whose opinion is used?

Written guidelines take away that issue.

Actually they don't because they are selectively enforced. In a case in a town near me a girl can vibe sitting in class next to a boy both wearing tank tops (against the dress code) the girl will be sent to the office and the boy won't. In one case the teacher spent 30 making the girls stand up and assessed their clothing test did not do the same for the boys, some of whom were out of dress code. Written rules don't take away interpretation.

 

[luvsJack]

Actually they don't because they are selectively enforced. In a case in a town near me a girl can vibe sitting in class next to a boy both wearing tank tops (against the dress code) the girl will be sent to the office and the boy won't. In one case the teacher spent 30 making the girls stand up and assessed their clothing test did not do the same for the boys, some of whom were out of dress code. Written rules don't take away interpretation.

Here, it would. Khaki or black shorts, length must equal the tips of the fingertips when held to the side, must be hemmed. Shirts must be either polo style shirts in colors x, y or z. OR the students may wear school spirit t-shirts. That's only one part, but hard to be up to interpretation. They are either within the code or not.

Problems such as the teacher you are talking about is not a problem with the dress code, its a problem with that teacher.

 

[Mkrop]

So how do you explain the logic of it working perfectly well when there is not a dress code?

How do you qualify or quantify it working perfectly?

Actually they don't because they are selectively enforced. In a case in a town near me a girl can vibe sitting in class next to a boy both wearing tank tops (against the dress code) the girl will be sent to the office and the boy won't. In one case the teacher spent 30 making the girls stand up and assessed their clothing test did not do the same for the boys, some of whom were out of dress code. Written rules don't take away interpretation.

That doesnt sound like a dress code issue, it sounds like an individual school issue.

 

[Gracie09]

Here, it would. Khaki or black shorts, length must equal the tips of the fingertips when held to the side, must be hemmed. Shirts must be either polo style shirts in colors x, y or z. OR the students may wear school spirit t-shirts. That's only one part, but hard to be up to interpretation. They are either within the code or not.

Problems such as the teacher you are talking about is not a problem with the dress code, its a problem with that teacher.

That's a uniform not a dress code. And its not an isolated problem with one teacher in one school district. A quick google search will come up with dozens if not more of cases when there is selective or discriminatory enforcement of dress codes.

 

[luvsJack]

That's a uniform not a dress code. And its not an isolated problem with one teacher in one school district. A quick google search will come up with dozens if not more of cases when there is selective or discriminatory enforcement of dress codes.

Technically it is a dress code. Uniforms are defined closer to what many private and religious schools have.

Just because a google search turns up other cases does not mean that its not a problem with how the dress code is implemented and enforced.

In the late 70's, our dress code addressed tank tops. Girls could wear them as long as they were wide enough to cover bra straps, boys could not wear them at all. It wasn't worded in a way to assume anything else.

If a teacher is spending 30 minutes worrying about the dress code, then there is either a problem with that teacher or there is a problem with the way the dress code is written. To say that the problem is in having a dress code is throwing the baby out with the bath water.