Saying NO to your children--this weeks People magazine

[clutter]

I'm with AprilGail and toby's friend.

Me, when I do take time away from my kid (and let's face it, my chores), it's going to be for something I really want to do. I did my "adult" time pre-kid. And I'll have "adult" time post-kid. Right now I want to enjoy my kid time. However.... enjoying my child and letting her know that she is important to me means setting rules and limits.

 

[ead79]

I'm not a parent myself, but I can still say that children's behavior these days often shocks me. I realize that all children have their moments, but the fact that many parents don't try to discipline or stop their kids from doing things astounds me. When I was growing up, I was expected to behave. It wasn't an option not to eat politely in a restaurant, it wasn't a choice to obey. If I didn't obey, there were consequences. Not "reasoning" with me or negotiating with me to be better, real consequences resulted from bad behavior. My friends and I are all in the newlywed stage of life right now, but later down the road when kids come into our lives, I can assure you that discipline will be happening at our houses. I actually feel sorry for kids that aren't disciplined--I think it makes them less able to cope in the real world where there are consequences for things, both good and bad.

As far as going places without children goes, I have mixed feelings on this issue. I can certainly understand a parent's desire to bring their child with them so they don't miss valuable time with them. However, I also respect people's right to have events that do not include children. My wedding and reception were very late a night due to Disney's policies for my venues, so we had no children under 10 at our wedding. I wasn't trying to hurt anyone's feelings. I honestly felt it would be better for everyone involved if kids weren't asked to stay up until 1:30 am when they are exhausted. I consulted etiquette books to be sure that everything was handled properly as well. I certainly hope that our family and friends understood our point of view and didn't feel hurt or angry at us.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

Originally posted by Melora
My step daugher will be 13 a year from next month.... her mother is already planning her bat mitzvah for more than 250 people.

My husband has already said that in no uncertain terms he (and the rest of our family) will NOT be attending because of how ridiculous this is. I know that her mother will pay $20,000+ or much more on this thing and neither of us feel this is right.

I think it's incredibly sad that your husband won't participate in this life cycle event for his daughter. that he won't be there to show support for his daughter regardless of what he thinks about his ex wife. is he going to boycott the wedding too?

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

and I must say that I dislike the idea of a "faux mitzvah". making an expensive party for a young girl is one thing, calling it a "faux mitzvah" is totally inappropriate.

I hosted a bat mitzvah party for my older daughter and am planning one for my younger daughter. it's like hosting a wedding because the life cycle vent, the religious meaning of the event is as significant as a wedding.

it's a Talmudic commandment to host a party in honor of the event in accordance with the parents' means and ability to pay, though admittedly it's not a religious requirement to go to excess while doing so.

 

[ScarlettO]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
I think it's incredibly sad that your husband won't participate in this life cycle event for his daughter. that he won't be there to show support for his daughter regardless of what he thinks about his ex wife. is he going to boycott the wedding too?

Why? If the father feels the celebration will be more like a circus than a true CELEBRATION.....it's wrong of him to refuse to attend? Because of his moral conviction?

 

[IMGONNABE40!]

I'm with Briar 7457. No matter how ostentatious, how can a Dad miss his kid's bat mitzvah? So, maybe don't bring the family (though I think I would let them decide for themselves) But to miss your own daughter's bat mitzvah?? No excuse (except maybe a death certificate). What does the daughter know about too extravagant?? Her memory will be "my Dad did not come to my bat mitzvah". (yes, that is unadulterated "Jewish" guilt)

 

[Melora]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
I think it's incredibly sad that your husband won't participate in this life cycle event for his daughter. that he won't be there to show support for his daughter regardless of what he thinks about his ex wife. is he going to boycott the wedding too?

There are actually other extinuating circumstances to keep us from attending this event. It has to do with something very terrible that his ex wife did to us and what she consequently told her relatives and friends that will be there. It is nothing light and that can be overlooked. She created an extremely devastating episode in our and my childrens lives that cannot be easily fixed. Knowing the rumors she spread and what people will be thinking is beyond anything our family cares to deal with.

My husband is also not religious at all and in truth neither is his ex. This is being done simply as "look at me and what I can afford" event. As soon as the bat mitzvah loomed into sight, she suddenly started attending temple regularly and began attending events she never did before.

Erin will be told why we are not attending. There will be no misunderstanding as to why we are not showing up.

But in light of that this event will be nothing short but overdone and overblown. This is the woman who has routinely spent upwards of $1000+ per birthday party for her children even when they 1, 2 and 3 years old.

I suppose we will have to wait and see with the wedding. My husbands daughter has a step father that her mother has done her best to replace my husband with. If his daughter does not ask my husband to stand for her as her father at her wedding, I know he will not go.

 

[Nancy]

I remeber a few years back when my girls were at the doctors for the annual checkups. Older daughter complained that I am too strict and sometimes she wasn't happy. Dr. informed her "Your Mom's job is NOT to make you happy, only you can do that. Your Mom's job is to raise you to be an independent adult who can think for herself and deal with the real world" I have never forgotten that and neither has she.

 

[ScarlettO]

Originally posted by Beth E. (NJ)
which issue of People magazine is this? Can you tell me who is on the cover -- it seems like interesting reading.

It's the one with Charlie Sheen and wife & baby on cover

 

[Microcell]

I was Jewish at the time and didn't get a bat mitzvah!!! Man I feel ripped off. My older sister did and she raked in the gifts- a set of skis for goodness sake in 1980!!!!! I always say those Jews really know how to throw a party! Now everyone is keeping up with the Goldbergs and the Rosenblatts??? That is a new one!

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

just from personal experience, melora -- my 13 year old has a very shaky relationship wtih her fahte rright now because when we were planning her bat mitzvah last year, she realized that from his perspective it wasn't about HER DAY, it was about his ongoing battle with me. and it didn't occur to him until she stood on the bima and thanked me, various members of my family, and her Hebrew school teachers for making the day possible -- and never said a word about her father.

if you want to stay home from this affair, that you're choice. but her fahter should go and support her.

 

[Microcell]

Originally posted by Dan Murphy
I we played all day, and sometimes into the night, on our own, nothing planned. We got kids from up and down the block, made up our own games, played in the dirt, had fights, drew with chalk on the sidewalk. A BD party was hotdogs, on a $5 grill, punch and pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey in the back yard, or basement if it was winter. Life is too complicated today, too planned, too competitive.

And who or what is Veruca Salt? :confused2

First to answer the Veruca question- rent Willy Wonka- She is the one who says "But Daddy I just have to get the golden ticket" so daddy buys up every candy bar he can to get her the ticket.

On to the rest of it. The world has gotten out of control! I feel guilty that I only want to do just what Dan said he did as a kid for DD's birthday party because she got so many gifts while she was in the hospital that there is no more room!! We are leaving for Disney seven days after her b-day so I think it has been a great month (minus her appendix thing) for gifts. I sit here feeling bad, what is wrong with me! I never went to WDW as a kid. She is going twice in one year! Out of control. We are getting some dogs and leting her friends play with her in the back yard!

 

[Lucky4me]

My children were SO deprived growing up.

When they were pre teens and teens I'd hear all about their friends getting extravagant birthday parties, designer clothing, new cars, expensive computers, stereos, cell phones, etc. We were such horrid parents for not putting ourselves into debt so they could enjoy the same things.

Somehow they survived all that deprivation and now in their 20's are living independently and supporting themselves. Imagine that. Their spoiled friends are still living at home, flunking out of colleges, unable to hold down jobs and making their parents lives miserable.

Now that my kids are adults they can see there was a reason for all those no's.

 

[Microcell]

if you want to stay home from this affair, that you're choice. but her fahter should go and support her. [/B][/QUOTE]




As a girl that would not thank her father either- he really should rise above the mud of the ex and show DD that he cares about her. Not only this time but at all times. A girl needs the love of her father or she will look for it in every slimeball she comes across and you could be a step grandma well before your time. It has been devistating to feel like my dad does not love me because he moved away from me to leave me to care for a drinking mom in poor health. Then when she died I went to live with him only to have him make it clear his new wife means more then his kids. My step mother always said my mom gave him a bad wrap, but he showed me himself what a bum he is. Your DH needs to be steadfast in his love for her. She will sort the truth out for herself when she gets older. By not showing up for a life event gives his ex fuel for the fire.

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by Microcell
First to answer the Veruca question- rent Willy Wonka- She is the one who says "But Daddy I just have to get the golden ticket" so daddy buys up every candy bar he can to get her the ticket.

On to the rest of it. The world has gotten out of control! I feel guilty that I only want to do just what Dan said he did as a kid for DD's birthday party because she got so many gifts while she was in the hospital that there is no more room!! We are leaving for Disney seven days after her b-day so I think it has been a great month (minus her appendix thing) for gifts. I sit here feeling bad, what is wrong with me! I never went to WDW as a kid. She is going twice in one year! Out of control. We are getting some dogs and leting her friends play with her in the back yard!

My son and I were talking about his past birthday parties a few months ago. The one he remembered and talk the most about was the one we had at home. It was during a time when I just could not afford to do a Chuck E. Cheese, Putt Putt type party that year.

I went to the store picked up hot dogs, chips and punch. I made the cake myself, used food coloring so he could have blue frosting.

Called a few friends and asked them to bring the kids over after school. The kids ate, watched a few videos and had a blast.

 

[Melora]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
just from personal experience, melora -- my 13 year old has a very shaky relationship wtih her fahte rright now because when we were planning her bat mitzvah last year, she realized that from his perspective it wasn't about HER DAY, it was about his ongoing battle with me. and it didn't occur to him until she stood on the bima and thanked me, various members of my family, and her Hebrew school teachers for making the day possible -- and never said a word about her father.

if you want to stay home from this affair, that you're choice. but her fahter should go and support her.

Just to give you a brief idea of what we are facing with ex: she accused my oldest of molesting her son. We were one day from having him removed from our house by childrens services and never allowed to have contact with his sisters again. Psychologists we saw and finally a case worker with a brain basically told her there was NO basis what so ever for these accusations (It was obvious she was jealous and angry that I was one month away from having her exs baby.. this was also the observation of more than one of the professionals we were working with).

We threatened to sue the agency that was removing my son and told them they better come up with some facts immediately and as soon as we showed we had a lawyer they dropped all charges immediately. She has all but said to my face that she doesnt really think anything happened but still told every family member and friend that Jeff supported his stepson and does not give a damn about his son. We know that most of the people close to the ex (who will be attendance) believe firmly that my son did the thigns he was accused of and that Jeff is a horrible man for supporting my son after what he did. These people WILL say something to us, right to our face. They have before.

There is no way either of us wants to be in the presence of any of these people. When the event is closer, Jeff will talk to Erin and explain why we will not come. She is well aware of what her mother did to us and at some point it might help to talk about things but right now she doesnt want to talk about it. But she will more than understand why we have chosen not attend. She wil not feel like her father does not care about her.

Aside form that, it will be a circus. And to be honest Jeff does not want to endorse what his ex is doing and how she is destroying his childrens chance at a normal life because they have never been told no to.... not EVER! Going to something like this..even if there wasnt these other circumstances would be an endorsement of how she is raising them.

After talking to Erin, it is obvious she is looking at this event as a way to get money and "out do" her friends. This is not being handled as a "special" time in her life. Its just another party.

For those of you saying he should show up and support her, you have no idea about this situation and it is not that simple. We support her in many many ways that do not support her mothers comletely inappropriate ways of raising her.

Not showing up for one event in kids life is not going to make or break her. Its more important to be there for the day to day things than one overblown out of control "show em how much money youve got" event.

Please do not talk as if you know our situation and can foretell how much you percieve the child will be hurt by this... Do not judge unless you have lived what we are going through.

 

[sm4987]

Another good thread. I tell my children up front they will not get evertyhing that they want. Shoot if you let your children go through the beginnngs of life thinking that, they are in for a shock when they hit the real world. People are so amazd when they see my children. They are polite, say yes sir and no sir etc. Even at Disney, they stand patiently in line and wait. I'm not having none of that stuff here and will punish in a minute if I have to. We as parents can't be afraid to tell our kids no

 

[ScarlettO]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
just from personal experience, melora -- my 13 year old has a very shaky relationship wtih her fahte rright now because when we were planning her bat mitzvah last year, she realized that from his perspective it wasn't about HER DAY, it was about his ongoing battle with me. and it didn't occur to him until she stood on the bima and thanked me, various members of my family, and her Hebrew school teachers for making the day possible -- and never said a word about her father.

if you want to stay home from this affair, that you're choice. but her fahter should go and support her.

So what you are saying is your DD's father DID go to her bat mitzvah and she puposely put him down by not thanking him.....and yet you still feel a father should go and possibly have that done to him?

 

[Deb & Bill]

Originally posted by disneyjunkie
My son and I were talking about his past birthday parties a few months ago. The one he remembered and talk the most about was the one we had at home. It was during a time when I just could not afford to do a Chuck E. Cheese, Putt Putt type party that year.

I went to the store picked up hot dogs, chips and punch. I made the cake myself, used food coloring so he could have blue frosting.

Called a few friends and asked them to bring the kids over after school. The kids ate, watched a few videos and had a blast.

We did two water fun birthdays for my son (his birthday is in July). For the first one, some of the kids asked my son how big his pool was a few days before the party. We don't have a pool, we had two wading pools, a slip 'n slide, lawn sprinklers and water guns. The first one was such a hit, that we did it again the next year. I made a tie dye cake (the Pillsbury Funtastic Cake) with white frosting and colored gel swirled with a toothpick for the tie dye effect. Served pizza and koolade.

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Lucky4me
My children were SO deprived growing up.

When they were pre teens and teens I'd hear all about their friends getting extravagant birthday parties, designer clothing, new cars, expensive computers, stereos, cell phones, etc. We were such horrid parents for not putting ourselves into debt so they could enjoy the same things.

Somehow they survived all that deprivation and now in their 20's are living independently and supporting themselves. Imagine that. Their spoiled friends are still living at home, flunking out of colleges, unable to hold down jobs and making their parents lives miserable.

Now that my kids are adults they can see there was a reason for all those no's.

Speaking as a "deprived child" who wore "non-label" clothes as a child, had a "hand me down" used car, worked a few nights a week and on the weekends for pocket money...I sit here in my own home in my late 20's thinking I did alright for myself.

I totally agree with you though - alot people that I went to HS with just had EVERYTHING handed to them...they didn't know how to work for a damn thing...and they are still living at home with mom and dad. unreal.

I still thank my parents for making me work while I was in high school (learned to budget my time - learned my limits on studying/working), giving me an older car to drive (insurance was cheaper and I didn't mind the dents from the other kids in their "nice" cars hitting me), and teaching me the value of a dollar.

Oh - and how to dress appropriately for my age/position in life!