Say Goodbye to the Auction Scene in Pirates

[SteveMP]

Personally I can't stand the idea of the auction. I think they should modernize it and put a "buy it now" option. I especially can't stand the guys that sit and watch the auction until the last minute, and then snipe you...



































...in the end.

 

[chickapin parterre]

Boo! Just friggin boo on all of it!!! It's the best scene in the whole dang ride. Let's just have the pirates skipping around, singing songs, hugging all the townsfolk, and baking cookies.

yep....that is what we were doing just now at the grocery store......all happy at the very crowded, crowded grocery store when the lady in front of us purchased 28 items......in the 15 items or fewer line.......pirate she was, ....wait for it.....she was trying to pass a bad check....management was called in.......that is when we really started baking!!!!

 

[VandVsmama]

Boo! Just friggin boo on all of it!!! It's the best scene in the whole dang ride. Let's just have the pirates skipping around, singing songs, hugging all the townsfolk, and baking cookies.

I second the above.

If any particular guest at ANY Disney theme park find him or herself extremely offended or horrified by something that he or she sees on an attraction or in a show, that guest should go to City Hall to register a complaint. If that guest is not present at the Disney park, then he or she should send an email or write a letter to Disney Corporation to voice his or her complaint directly to the organization that made the decision to depict whatever the offensive scene is.

If you don't like the ride, then DON'T GO ON IT!

You know what? *I* was a shaking nervous wreck for a good 20 minutes after going on GOTG at the beginning of June. It was a horrible experience. I think that the ride is awful. Our family will never be going on it again. Nothing about it was fun AT ALL. Awful experience. Am I going to complain? No. Why? Because I don't want to. Because I don't feel like it. I'm just NOT GOING TO GO ON THAT ATTRACTION AGAIN.

And THAT is what EVERYBODY who is offended by POTC should do.....NOT GO ON THE RIDE! And COMPLAIN DIRECTLY TO DISNEY!

But it is pretty darn hypocritical to get really offended about the 50 years of "sex trafficking" that the POTC attraction apparently celebrated, yet be ok with Haunted Mansion. Or the Native American statue on Main Street and Frontierland. Or Pocahontas doing meet & greets.

If you've been on POTC several times yet just now you are getting upset over the "Take a wench for a bride" scene, then WHY in the world did you go on the ride so many times before?

I have explained this scene to my kids. They asked once about it. DH & I explained it to them in terms that they would understand at the time. And you know what else we told them? It's all pretend! It's make believe! It's NOT necessarily historically accurate! It's NOT OK to sell people...but IT'S JUST A THEME PARK RIDE!

If POTC is offensive, then you shouldn't ever read any Mark Twain book. And don't read "Last of the Mohicans" or "Treasure Island" either. "Treasure Island" is a novel about pirates. It's full of violence, enslavement, kidnapping, a little bit of torture, etc., etc. Better yet...don't read any Harry Potter books either because those are full of violence, murder, death, and a ton of evil stuff.

However, perhaps we shouldn't steer too far of course otherwise we might end up delving too far into religion & politics, which is not permitted on these boards. I think that Disney changing the scene is a dumb thing to do. But we're still going to go on POTC every single time we're at Disneyland. We enjoy it. If you don't enjoy POTC, then skip it. There's a lot of other really great stuff to do at DL & DCA.

 

[Sith]

If you don't like a ride, then just don't ride it. If the ride offends you, then just don't ride it. If the ride gives you motion sickness, then just don't ride it. If you don't enjoy the ride for any reason at all, then just don't ride it! Why is it that the majority have to lose something they love just to appease the vocal minority? I guess the squeeky wheel gets the grease, huh?

Ok. Now that I have said that, here is a funny story that illustrates how I myself was once affected by a ride:

In late 1997, I was going through Marine Combat Training at Camp Pendleton. We had a 3 day weekend, and myself and two friends from boot camp decided to go to Disneyland. We rode the Amtrak from Oceanside to Anaheim. We went on the Jungle Cruise. When the skipper fired the pistol, all three of us hit the deck. Yes, between/ on people's feet. I am not kidding. We were only about a month out of boot camp at this point, so our training was very fresh. The skipper said something like, "Well, it's good to see we have the Marines with us today." Maybe we weren't the first to do this? Everybody laughed, including us. We returned to our seats and enjoyed the rest of the ride, even if we were a little embarrassed.

So, should we have complained and had the Jungle Cruise changed just for us? I don't think so. I've probably ridden that ride 30 times since that day, and I have never reacted that way again.

 

[chickapin parterre]

No.....someone else did the complaining for you.

 

[Laz]

All this, and yet people still don't say anything about Donald running around with no pants!

 

[Rabb it]

All this, and yet people still don't say anything about Donald running around with no pants!

 

[mjallemand]

This post is from another message board I frequent and it's pretty insightful.

I think what it really comes down to is this.

For a ride featuring murder and arson and thievery and wanton crimes to be family fun, there needs to be a sense of safety. This is related to the Benign Violation Theory. Take of a man falling down a flight of stairs, for example.

If the man is violently maimed and killed, it is not broadly humorous. It may be possible to contextualize a violent death in a humorous way, but generally, people will find this scene uncomfortable. It will not be humorous, or fun, and the depiction will be unpleasant.

If the man bounces down the stairs and sees some stars before shaking it off and continuing on his way, the depiction becomes playful. More people are likely to think it's funny, or laugh, and people will not be reminded of a grotesque a grisly death by the depiction.

Even though both depict the same thing, a man falling down the stairs, one is funny and one is not.

The sense of "safety" somebody feels when viewing a fantasy depiction of an otherwise grim reality is required for that person to take pleasure in it. That's why cartoons like Tom & Jerry are funny (impossible outcomes to lethal situations; the benign betrayal) but an actual animal being hit with a hammer would be deeply unsettling.

This relates to pirates because most people feel far away from the events being depicted. The fantasy portrayal of a pirate raid is so far removed from somebody's ordinary life that they feel distant enough to find it benign. It is extremely unlikely, or even impossible, for an ordinary park-goer to suffer the fate of a pirate raid. Their home will not be burned, their belongings will not be smashed and plundered, and they will not have to leave their lives behind as marauders lay waste to their entire lives. So when people witness the events of Pirates of the Caribbean, it is benign. This allows for fun and humor.

But the one thing depicted in the attraction that can and does happen to everyday people is sexual assault. 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. They will be pursued against their will. They will be treated as property. They will be raped. This is an extremely serious reality for women. Not just in the 1800s Caribbean, but modern day America. Every single woman riding Pirates of the Caribbean, in some way, is a victim of misogyny.

Therefore, its playful depiction is not benign. There is no safety by separation. It becomes uncomfortable. It becomes upsetting. You begin to have a case for adjustment.

This is why the depiction of women on Pirates has been the sole source of "political" controversy. There are no Imagineers or special interest groups or bloggers saying the violence in PotC is inappropriate. Nobody is saying the depiction of arson hits too close to home and needs to be toned down. Nobody is saying the pirates are too nasty or shouldn't have swords or shouldn't be drinking or anything like that.

For decades, the solitary point of contention has been about the suggestion or illusion of rape. Because this single detail is not far enough away from the everyday lives of the ride's patrons to appear benign. Its appeal as part of a fantasy adventure or humorous jape is greatly diminished when it could still happen to you.

Especially when the ride doesn't attempt to disparage the pirates for their raid. The ride somewhat glorifies the adventure, especially in the wake of the movies. Kids play pirates. Pirates are fun. For pirates to be fun and benign, they can't remind riders of things they are fighting against every day in their own lives.

This includes misogyny. This is how I've always viewed the matter and why I personally find any relations to other material being equally offensive to be false equivalencies. I don't think the outcry against sexual assault and misogyny is arbitrary when it comes to this ride and the feedback does not extend to any other detail of the exhibit.

Except for maybe Johnny Depp. Dang, some people hate Jack Sparrow on that ride.

 

[Metalliman98]

This post is from another message board I frequent and it's pretty insightful.

I disagree. I may be extremely unlikely to experience a "pirate raid", but there is a definite possibility that I will be a victim of arson, robbery, burglary, or murder/assault. So the benign theory doesn't hold here. All of the crimes that are depicted are possible and should be removed, since they could happen to us. The fact that they are all taking place as part of a "pirate raid" is irrelevant, the actual crimes could happen to anybody.

Or, you know, we could just leave well enough alone and let people choose for themselves whether or not to go on the ride, if they're worried about being offended or triggered. I know that's not what we do in 2017 in America, but it might be worth a try.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I disagree. I may be extremely unlikely to experience a "pirate raid", but there is a definite possibility that I will be a victim of arson, robbery, burglary, or murder/assault. So the benign theory doesn't hold here. All of the crimes that are depicted are possible and should be removed, since they could happen to us. The fact that they are all taking place as part of a "pirate raid" is irrelevant, the actual crimes could happen to anybody.

Or, you know, we could just leave well enough alone and let people choose for themselves whether or not to go on the ride, if they're worried about being offended or triggered. I know that's not what we do in 2017 in America, but it might be worth a try.

I think the issue is not just whether people are likely to experience that type of crime in modern day, although that's part of it. It's also that people are not likely to experience the modern day equivalent of a pirate raid (robbery, arson, murder, etc) and then see other people minimizing the crime, demanding more evidence than the victim's word, victim-blaming, and making crude jokes. I can see why people would view the "auction" scene differently than the other depictions of crimes -- maybe we don't need one more example of minimizing and making a joke out of that type of crime. Maybe the change is being made to look politically correct, rather than any real concern for guests or the message being sent, but does that really matter? I just can't see this as a negative change. The ride has been changed before. I believe I read that nearly every attraction has undergone significant changes over the years?

 

[alvernon90]

Or, you know, we could just leave well enough alone and let people choose for themselves whether or not to go on the ride, if they're worried about being offended or triggered. I know that's not what we do in 2017 in America, but it might be worth a try.

First of all, the ride as it operates today has already been vastly changed numerous times, and not just to reduce the depictions of attempted rape. Adding characters from the movie did far more to change the ride than altering the auction scene ever could, as it utterly and completely changed the story. So if your position is "never change the ride" that ship has already sailed.

If your position is "previous changes were fine but the ride should be frozen into a museum piece starting today" then that was never going to happen. Future changes will occur. That is inevitable.

If your position is "people who don't like the ride can just skip it" please bear in mind that advice will apply to you and everyone else after the auction scene change. If you are so profoundly offended that the scene was changed to remove the rape references, then just don't ever ride it again for the rest of your life. Simple!

I suspect you won't want to take the last option. After the change you'll ride it and maybe remark to your loved ones how much more you liked the ride back when all those women were about to get raped, but before long you'll forget all about it. As will most other people here. My evidence? This same debate raged when the previous "PC" changes were made, but now that those changes are part of the ride people are willing to cancel their APs to protest further changes.

 

[Westcoastwild]

I think the issue is not just whether people are likely to experience that type of crime in modern day, although that's part of it. It's also that people are not likely to experience the modern day equivalent of a pirate raid (robbery, arson, murder, etc) and then see other people minimizing the crime, demanding more evidence than the victim's word, victim-blaming, and making crude jokes. I can see why people would view the "auction" scene differently than the other depictions of crimes -- maybe we don't need one more example of minimizing and making a joke out of that type of crime. Maybe the change is being made to look politically correct, rather than any real concern for guests or the message being sent, but does that really matter? I just can't see this as a negative change. The ride has been changed before. I believe I read that nearly every attraction has undergone significant changes over the years?

The bolded stuff is key. People go on about how it could trigger sex trafficking or rape victims, but honestly, I'm not sure that's a reason to remove it. I do think that little girls are exposed to rape culture so much in the outside world that they don't need to see it at Disney. Disney is about empowering little girls- Moana, Frozen, Mulan. And I see the removal of the scene as a positive step in that direction.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

The bolded stuff is key. People go on about how it could trigger sex trafficking or rape victims, but honestly, I'm not sure that's a reason to remove it. I do think that little girls are exposed to rape culture so much in the outside world that they don't need to see it at Disney. Disney is about empowering little girls- Moana, Frozen, Mulan. And I see the removal of the scene as a positive step in that direction.

Yes, and little boys/young men don't need to see it either.

 

[squeezle]

The bolded stuff is key. People go on about how it could trigger sex trafficking or rape victims, but honestly, I'm not sure that's a reason to remove it. I do think that little girls are exposed to rape culture so much in the outside world that they don't need to see it at Disney. Disney is about empowering little girls- Moana, Frozen, Mulan. And I see the removal of the scene as a positive step in that direction.

Yes, and little boys/young men don't need to see it either.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

 

[Metalliman98]

First of all, the ride as it operates today has already been vastly changed numerous times, and not just to reduce the depictions of attempted rape. Adding characters from the movie did far more to change the ride than altering the auction scene ever could, as it utterly and completely changed the story. So if your position is "never change the ride" that ship has already sailed.

If your position is "previous changes were fine but the ride should be frozen into a museum piece starting today" then that was never going to happen. Future changes will occur. That is inevitable.

If your position is "people who don't like the ride can just skip it" please bear in mind that advice will apply to you and everyone else after the auction scene change. If you are so profoundly offended that the scene was changed to remove the rape references, then just don't ever ride it again for the rest of your life. Simple!

I suspect you won't want to take the last option. After the change you'll ride it and maybe remark to your loved ones how much more you liked the ride back when all those women were about to get raped, but before long you'll forget all about it. As will most other people here. My evidence? This same debate raged when the previous "PC" changes were made, but now that those changes are part of the ride people are willing to cancel their APs to protest further changes.

My position is neither that the ride should never be changed, nor that previous changes were ok but this one isn't. I am not offended by a ride being changed. Life goes on, and i will more than likely ride the ride again after the change. My frustration comes from the logical inconsistency of the argument used to support this change. "Rape is bad, so we should not reference it in any theme park attraction." If that is your position, that is fine. But then why are we leaving the robbery, the arson, the torturing, etc.? Isn't all that bad too? If not, why not? If so, then why is all of that bad behavior "acceptable", but the rape references are not?

To be clear, i am in no way in favor of rape, in spite of what your comment would suggest, just as I am not in favor of arson, robbery, torture, or murder. But it's disingenuous to claim to care about how the ride is affecting people/children, and using that to justify the changes, without addressing the other crimes and immoral actions being committed.

Basically, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too, from a logical consistency standpoint (I realize Disney can do whatever they want with their ride). Either it's all ok, or none of it is.

 

[Metalliman98]

The bolded stuff is key. People go on about how it could trigger sex trafficking or rape victims, but honestly, I'm not sure that's a reason to remove it. I do think that little girls are exposed to rape culture so much in the outside world that they don't need to see it at Disney. Disney is about empowering little girls- Moana, Frozen, Mulan. And I see the removal of the scene as a positive step in that direction.

Except that the scene is now replaced with the red-head as a pirate, with a gun, auctioning off goods that she stole from innocent people. Is that really an improvement? Or is it just trading one bad thing for another? All the change means is that it's not ok, for our kids sake, to portray rape in a theme park ride, but it is ok to portray robbery and violence. And not only is it ok, it is also "empowering". What?

 

[tarheelalum]

But that doesn't matter. What matters is that no one will be offended. These are our priorities in 2017. You will be assimilated, resistance is futile.

A lot of truth in what your saying. The PC movement is one that seeks to control language. Because when you control langauge, you control thought. George Orwell is laughing in his grave right now.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Except that the scene is now replaced with the red-head as a pirate, with a gun, auctioning off goods that she stole from innocent people. Is that really an improvement? Or is it just trading one bad thing for another? All the change means is that it's not ok, for our kids sake, to portray rape in a theme park ride, but it is ok to portray robbery and violence. And not only is it ok, it is also "empowering". What?

If you don't see the difference between a kid receiving a message of agency and adventure (pirate) vs. chattel (prostitute/object of lust) then I can't help you. Girls can be anything vs girls are defined by what they can "give" men are two very, very different messages to send to kids- whether girl or boy!

 

[Metalliman98]

If you don't see the difference between a kid receiving a message of agency and adventure (pirate) vs. chattel (prostitute/object of lust) then I can't help you. Girls can be anything vs girls are defined by what they can "give" men are two very, very different messages to send to kids- whether girl or boy!

Auctioning off stolen goods sends a message of "agency and adventure"? I would think there would be better ways to send that message.

You know, if we're looking to send good, wholesome messages about acceptable behavior, and empower kids of all genders, while keeping the pirate theme, Jake and the Neverland Pirates would seem to fit the bill, so just change the ride to that.

Seriously. I could respect that position since it's at least logically consistent, though i would disagree with it.

 

[Westcoastwild]

Auctioning off stolen goods sends a message of "agency and adventure"? I would think there would be better ways to send that message.

You know, if we're looking to send good, wholesome messages about acceptable behavior, and empower kids of all genders, while keeping the pirate theme, Jake and the Neverland Pirates would seem to fit the bill, ao just change the ride to that.

Seriously. I could respect that position since it's at least logically consistent, though i would disagree with it.

Let me put it this way: I catch the neighborhood kids playing pirates and auctioning off each other's candy or water guns, that's cute. I catch them playing pirates and holding a wench auction with the girls as the wenches and the boys catcalling? We are going to have a conversation. It's going to involve other parents and possibly grounding my son if he was an instigator. Or explaining to my daughter that she doesn't need to go along with a game like that.