Say Goodbye to the Auction Scene in Pirates

[HydroGuy]

I don't care for the actual additions, I just appreciate the decision to remove the auction scene. I think the actual additions are kind of lame but it's probably a way to keep Scarlett who translates into merchandise. Which is definitely Disney's whole approach- like how they wanted to cash in on Jack Sparrow but not upset the people who love the ride as is. I consider it weaselly and cheap, and the compromise doesn't make either side over the moon happy, but that's a whole different topic. But since they did it, I would have found the addition of Elizabeth and Jack Sparrow working together to troll the"bad" pirates both fitting and hilarious.

I haven't seen #5 but thanks for letting me know! I may have to watch it after all- I gave up on the franchise halfway through #3. I am not a big sequel person, though.

FWIW, I loved #1, hated #2 and #3 and was ready to give up on it too, but really liked #4 and #5.

I am a big synergy guy, and as much as I love the DL POTC ride - my favorite at all of DLR - I supported bringing Jack Sparrow in. I figured it would not work perfectly (it didn't) but I have four sons (now in their 20s) who know Jack Sparrow well and it makes a 50-year-old ride relevant again rather than a relic of my own childhood. I think Disney CEO Iger is making all the right moves from a synergy point of view on movies vs. parks.

 

[Westcoastwild]

FWIW, I loved #1, hated #2 and #3 and was ready to give up on it too, but really liked #4 and #5.

I am a big synergy guy, and as much as I love the DL POTC ride - my favorite at all of DLR - I supported bringing Jack Sparrow in. I figured it would not work perfectly (it didn't) but I have four sons (now in their 20s) who know Jack Sparrow well and it makes a 50-year-old ride relevant again rather than a relic of my own childhood. I think Disney CEO Iger is making all the right moves from a synergy point of view on movies vs. parks.

Oh I agree. I just would have loved Jack to have his very own ride. I know I know...but a girl can dream

 

[SteveMP]

I haven't seen #5 but thanks for letting me know! I may have to watch it after all- I gave up on the franchise halfway through #3. I am not a big sequel person, though.

I'm not a big fan of most movies past a number 2 of whatever. But my 14 yo daughter wanted me to take her, and we both really enjoyed it. And are both playing the PotC Tides of War game on our iphones now.

 

[Catvondita]

Disney has decided to eliminate all human characters at POTC. Too offensive in too many ways. So they have to put in something completely non-offensive (unless you're a cat).

Meet the new Pirates animatronic: Jack Russell Sparrow

View attachment 248322

I know you are trying to insult PC people but I would 100% be on board for this. It's too freakin cute.

 

[GatorChris]

I know you are trying to insult PC people but I would 100% be on board for this. It's too freakin cute.

Maybe I was...hehe.....

One more point and (maybe) I'll leave this discussion. Here it is: NO ONE was talking about this scene and how offensive it is and how it should be taken out until Disney said they'd take it out. I just find it odd that if it were that offensive, wouldn't someone have mentioned it by now? With all the time I've spent on a different Disney World board and this Disneyland board, I think I would've run across someone saying how offensive this scene is. 15 years of Disney posting and forums and NOW I finally hear from all those offended. It seems that the announcement from Disney is what triggered the offended response. How big of a deal was this for Disney to get involved???

Now I'm sure we'll hear from everyone who's "been offended for years/decades", but no one heard about it until this month. Am I making sense? Is this a truth worth pursuing? Who knows.

 

[Catvondita]

So for me, I'm on the fence. When I was a kid even I noticed how messed up the scene was. I mean, we all know what that scene is referring to. At the same time, this is one of my favorite rides at Disney and the scene never bothered me to the point that I think it should actually be changed. So even though I am semi-bothered by it I can see both sides. This is a messed up scene but it's also done in a light hearted way and as messed up as it is, it's a classic part of the ride that many have a nostalgic connection to (*Chants* we want the redhead!) I also understand why people are saying that if they change this, what else can they change? There are a lot of things at Disney (mainly classics) that are offensive. Lots of these things came out around the 50's which was a different time and a lot more backwards than now. So just how much should be changed to accommodate a different time period? At the same time, Disney said himself that Disneyland would never be complete. It's not meant to be a museum so I would welcome the change in small doses.

The redhead is still going to be in the ride so for me I don't see why there is suuuucccchh a huge outrage for the change. Seeing people complain this hard seems a little off that they are fighting this hard to KEEP a scene depicting trafficking and rape. Like I get being a little like "oh man that's kind of a let down because it's so memorable" but to see how upset people are seems a little weird. Also I know people are complaining about PC culture but that's also seems a little funny to me. Like it's a bad thing to be more socially conscious? People are saying it's a PC thing and that it's ruining the world and whateves but I honestly haven't heard any new reports about protests or petitions to make the change, it seemed to come from Disney directly.

Anywho sorry for the longish post. Like I said, I get both sides. I'm on both sides. I just thing it's a little wacky to be this upset about it and blaming PC culture and all that. The Red Head will stay and she will be tougher than ever!

 

[mummabear]

demanding more evidence than the victim's word

Every crime demands more proof than the victims word. Sadly with rape it's not always as obvious as say arson, even then plenty of people who have been a victim of arson are a suspect in it.

Purchasing a wife implies rape. Because it implies she didn't say yes. You don't purchase human beings. I don't see any need for a scene like that to be in a Disney park.

I'm not saying theft is right. I'm just saying that playing cowboys and Indians or pirates is different than playing prostitutes and pimps or masters and slaves. I would have (before these threads) generally assumed that people considered sexual assault worse than property theft. But as usual, the Dis is educational about humanity.

But is murder? Pirates murdered people, are you ok with your kids role playing that?
Are you offended by HM and feel we need to change it do it doesn't support domestic violence?

I truly appreciate everyone's opinion and this thread has made me think and try to see things through another perspective.

To try to have a more even moral playing field, if you will, than the issues of rape vs. theft, earlier in this thread I compared the POTC "buy a bride" scene to the HM "isn't it so fun I killed five men" scene, (ax included, with a smile by the woman). Aren't both of a similar level of gravity when taken in a literal sense? When viewed literally, one is implied violence against women by men (POTC), the other is literal violence of a woman against five unsuspecting men (HM). Both laugh off the implications of violence.

I may have a poor memory, but I have not seen a good answer to this comparison yet in this thread. I will let others answer for themselves (please jump in), but from the recent posts here I am guessing that there is a sense that "we all know murder is wrong, but we still don't all agree that violence against women is wrong". And that is a reason for changing the POTC scene? Is that what you are saying?

In context, I think the POTC ride goes to great lengths to say that pirates are not good people (the "pirates life for me" song literally says so, over and over, non-stop LOL), they do terrible things, and many of them meet a violent end as a result. The HM scene kind of makes the wife out to be deranged, but she never suffers any consequences for her actions. Both rides take great efforts to show the audience that the situations we are seeing are not normal, the events are fanciful, the people are not good people, and all of it has a heavy dose of the romanticized and playful. The songs that play ("pirate's life for me" and "grim grinning ghosts") reinforce this over and over (and over and over) through almost the entire ride.

I have women in my family that have suffered rape and sexual violence, and I have had one that was murdered by a stranger. Both are horrible and have had deep and long lasting effects on my family members and myself. But no one in my family has ever thought POTC or HM was attempting to say anything about our experiences. It just never occurred to us.

As always @HydroGuy you hit the nail on the head and speak so well.

So for me, I'm on the fence. When I was a kid even I noticed how messed up the scene was. I mean, we all know what that scene is referring to. At the same time, this is one of my favorite rides at Disney and the scene never bothered me to the point that I think it should actually be changed. So even though I am semi-bothered by it I can see both sides. This is a messed up scene but it's also done in a light hearted way and as messed up as it is, it's a classic part of the ride that many have a nostalgic connection to (*Chants* we want the redhead!) I also understand why people are saying that if they change this, what else can they change? There are a lot of things at Disney (mainly classics) that are offensive. Lots of these things came out around the 50's which was a different time and a lot more backwards than now. So just how much should be changed to accommodate a different time period? At the same time, Disney said himself that Disneyland would never be complete. It's not meant to be a museum so I would welcome the change in small doses.

The redhead is still going to be in the ride so for me I don't see why there is suuuucccchh a huge outrage for the change. Seeing people complain this hard seems a little off that they are fighting this hard to KEEP a scene depicting trafficking and rape. Like I get being a little like "oh man that's kind of a let down because it's so memorable" but to see how upset people are seems a little weird. Also I know people are complaining about PC culture but that's also seems a little funny to me. Like it's a bad thing to be more socially conscious? People are saying it's a PC thing and that it's ruining the world and whateves but I honestly haven't heard any new reports about protests or petitions to make the change, it seemed to come from Disney directly.

Anywho sorry for the longish post. Like I said, I get both sides. I'm on both sides. I just thing it's a little wacky to be this upset about it and blaming PC culture and all that. The Red Head will stay and she will be tougher than ever!

There is however a petition to keep the ride as is that already has 32,000 signatures.
https://www.change.org/p/the-walt-disney-company-we-wants-to-keep-the-redhead

 

[5forMickey]

With all the time I've spent on a different Disney World board and this Disneyland board, I think I would've run across someone saying how offensive this scene is. 15 years of Disney posting and forums and NOW I finally hear from all those offended. It seems that the announcement from Disney is what triggered the offended response. How big of a deal was this for Disney to get involved???

THIS ..... THIS ..... 100% THIS

 

[chickapin parterre]

THIS ..... THIS ..... 100% THIS

100% right on Gator Chris and I have even been running a counter point which no one has taken up and that is the John Trumball painting. Over the 4th Ancestry.com put its agenda out there on tv that our founding forefathers were no different then pirates. That painting is in every school and no one has asked for it to be removed.....but I am thinking that some time this fall, when US history is taught to juniors. that some Advance placement student is going to stand up in class and ask for that painting to be removed......if not.....then what we have really done with this thread.....is increase traffic....increase ad revenue....long live non-controversy !!!!!!

 

[VandVsmama]

First, presidential politics and now political history debates. Please just keep the politics out of this. Please debate those topics off line elsewhere.

 

[chickapin parterre]

there is no political history debate.... ancestry.com just released research, 100 %, photographic proof.....that over a 1/3 of the founding fore fathers at the signing of the declaration of Independence had the very same characteristics of the animotrincs that we debate here on this thread. It supports the very argument that Gator Chris makes!!!! As a high school teacher, on my wall is a sign that says. "Put truth in your cupped hand like water and hold it up"

 

[FryingPansWhoKnew]

With all the time I've spent on a different Disney World board and this Disneyland board, I think I would've run across someone saying how offensive this scene is. 15 years of Disney posting and forums and NOW I finally hear from all those offended. It seems that the announcement from Disney is what triggered the offended response. How big of a deal was this for Disney to get involved???

I was going to mention this earlier in the thread actually. Disney never really gave a reason as to why they were making this change. We all just assumed it was for PC reasons. I tend to agree that no one really complained too loudly about it. I think Disney just decided on its own it didn't want to be part of the insinuation anymore...it's nonsensical scene anyway, so nothing lost really.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

Every crime demands more proof than the victims word.

No, every crime really doesn't. If you were robbed of cash and identify the robber, do people demand further proof that you were actually robbed?

As for the POtC change, IMO, weighing the arguments on both sides, I just don't understand why people are so outraged. The ride has been significantly changed before, so the original vision can't be preserved at this point. The auction can't really be that important to the "plot" or the enjoyment of the ride. The ride and the scene are not historically accurate (and are played for laughs), so I don't understand the argument that the change is covering up history. It bothers some people in a way that other theme park depictions of crimes don't -- for all the reasons explained in this thread. As many people have pointed out, there are plenty of non-PC things in the Disney parks that Disney seems find with keeping. I don't think this is the start of a slippery slope.

 

[mummabear]

No, every crime really doesn't. If you were robbed of cash and identify the robber, do people demand further proof that you were actually robbed?

Yeah they would, you can't just walk into a police station and say I was robbed and this guy did it and have them arrested without any further investigation.

 

[HydroGuy]

As for the POtC change, IMO, weighing the arguments on both sides, I just don't understand why people are so outraged. The ride has been significantly changed before, so the original vision can't be preserved at this point. The auction can't really be that important to the "plot" or the enjoyment of the ride. The ride and the scene are not historically accurate (and are played for laughs), so I don't understand the argument that the change is covering up history. It bothers some people in a way that other theme park depictions of crimes don't -- for all the reasons explained in this thread. As many people have pointed out, there are plenty of non-PC things in the Disney parks that Disney seems find with keeping. I don't think this is the start of a slippery slope.

I think outrage is too strong of a word. I think "disagree" is a much better word.

As for not understanding why people disagree with the change, well, I think that has been answered repeatedly in this thread by many people. People also disagreed with the Jack Sparrow change. I was not one of them, but I understood where they were coming from. This change is for a different reason and (most of) the people who disagree with it do so for a different reason than the Jack Sparrow change.

 

[LizzyS]

I'm kind of bummed because I liked the scene, but things are always changing, I suppose.

Nothing to cry about.

 

[Gisele]

Maybe I was...hehe.....

One more point and (maybe) I'll leave this discussion. Here it is: NO ONE was talking about this scene and how offensive it is and how it should be taken out until Disney said they'd take it out. I just find it odd that if it were that offensive, wouldn't someone have mentioned it by now? With all the time I've spent on a different Disney World board and this Disneyland board, I think I would've run across someone saying how offensive this scene is. 15 years of Disney posting and forums and NOW I finally hear from all those offended. It seems that the announcement from Disney is what triggered the offended response. How big of a deal was this for Disney to get involved???

Now I'm sure we'll hear from everyone who's "been offended for years/decades", but no one heard about it until this month. Am I making sense? Is this a truth worth pursuing? Who knows.

Agreed!

 

[TheBigErn]

I find that all politically correct holier than thou do-gooders have no sense of humor. Lighten up people. My 2 daughters who are now grown were never bothered by this as they were able to see the humor. And by the way, it's historically accurate.

 

[StageTek]

"Mommy, what is this auction about?"

"Well, dear, the pirates over here have kidnapped these women and are selling them into slavery. The pirates over there are buying the women so they can rape them."

"That's delightful, Mommy. I hope no poopy pants liberals ever ask for this scene to be altered."

I wonder why, when I was 6 years old, this scene didn't raise questions, this scene didn't worry my mommy and I didn't grow up thinking is was acceptable to auction women.

 

[Catvondita]

I find that all politically correct holier than thou do-gooders have no sense of humor. Lighten up people. My 2 daughters who are now grown were never bothered by this as they were able to see the humor. And by the way, it's historically accurate.

All? All politically correct people have no sense of humor? I try to be as PC as I can because why would you want to offend someone? But I'm no prude and I def have a sense of humor.