SAT Prep

Both of my boys did the Princeton review for free thru their cobb county high schools. Met twice a week after school for months. Did not really help either of them bring their scores up. What helped them both the most was a SAT study guide that I bought them for $20 at Barnes and nobles.

If I remember correctly from some of your other posts, you are also in Georgia. Both of my boys went to UGA - just differently. One was early admission. The other was a transfer. Both did dual enrollment at KSU - one just stayed at KSU one more year and easily transferred to UGA.

What helped my older son the most was just taking the SAT multiple times. He ended up with 2200+ out of 2400. He lucked up and got a test that was easy for him - some were not. I know how you are feeling - it can be tough getting a child into a big state school.
We bought a study guide from the book store too. It hasn't helped. Her SAT scores have actually gone down. Yes, we're in GA. Everybody wants to go to either UGA or GA Tech. Especially when HOPE and Zell are here. I went to one of the principles meetings about colleges and he said for a state school they're requirements are ridiculous. He also said many transfer in after a year or two at another school. But I don't think it's as easy as they say, especially if everyone knows about it and doing it. My daughter has taken the SAT twice. She's scheduled for June and August too. The tutor center said colleges don't like to see so many tries. I don't know if that's true or not. My daughter did say that the tests seem to get harder and harder. Thank you for responding and all the information. I appreciate it. If anything else comes to mind, please post.
 
That fact that the scores are going down gives me pause. I would explore any free options, especially those focusing on test strategy, but use your money for something in the mindfulness/stress relief/yoga/therapy realm. To me, it seems like she is getting in her head about the test.
 
1. Where do I find College Confidential?

College Confidential is a discussion thread website much like here. They have their own website but not sure we are allowed to post the URL. Anyone can participate there and toss out their ideas on any number of topics. When I used to participate on that site I found a LOT of know-it-all h.s. students posting random opinions/hunches/guesses on most topics. You had to get to know which individuals actually know what they were talking about compared to those who just like to sound like they do. You have to weed through a LOT of mis-information to find anything of value on that site and it tends to be poorly moderated. I eventually stopped participating there.

Some students do better on one test vs another (SAT vs ACT) so it is a good idea to take both. Standardized tests primarily measure general knowledge you learn all through h.s. If you take them too early in your h.s. years, you might not have yet learned enough of the basic concepts (particularly in math) to do well. Some might be good students, but don't do well on these types of tests for a number of reasons. It is helpful advice to know the basic format of the test, time structure, data sufficiency questions, etc. to avoid wasting time during the actual test trying to figure that out. Taking these tests more then once may make the student feel more comfortable with the testing process and might do better. However, there is no guarantee that taking them multiple times will yield better scores.

My general view is that you do NOT need to spend thousands of dollars on any type of coaching/tutoring/test prep to be successful. I am sure in the fine print of their contract they all say something about '............results are not guaranteed........' since clearly NONE of them can promise to do that. Might also find some free courses online or even books/study guides that you can buy which are probably just as helpful for FAR less money

Some h.s. don't have as rigorous of an academic program as others, so the fact someone got A's/B's all during h.s. doesn't necessarily translate into top scores on standardized tests. I don't know the OP's h.s., so I can't say if that is part of the issue here. Realistically if you are only a mediocre student in Math/English all during h.s., no amount of tips/tricks/practice tests/tutoring is going to suddenly change that when taking any standardized test.

Anyone applying to a highly selective college also needs to be realistic about their chance for acceptance (regardless of their ACT/SAT scores) and also have some other "Plan B" colleges in mind as well. Parents can help provide guidance in this regard so the student doesn't get so focused on one school so as to not consider alternatives. The selection critieria for every college is different so it is difficult to make generalizations.
 
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This is going to be hard to hear, but honest

With the additional information, I would have your daughter look at other colleges that have larger acceptance rates.

No AP or IB and the scores she has will not put her competitive for entrance or many scholarships.

In our experience, the best merit scholarships came from ACT scores above 32 and whatever the equivalent SAT score would be.

Our kids had ACT scores over 32 and AP classes which weighted their GPAs over 4.0. They still were denied or weightlisted on entrance into some colleges.

There are just so many great kids going to college these days that schools have set high standards for entrance and merit scholarships.

Also, my kids knew which month's ACT or SAT test was known to be a little easier than others.
 
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College confidential is a website, you can get very realistic information. Those scores are probably not going to increase enough to make a difference or help with merit, TO is probably the best option. Most important is gpa, class rank and rigor, followed by scores and EC’s, then essays and LOR’s. Rigor will be based on what classes are offered. My kids only submitted their highest scores. On CC you can see results with stats at different universities.
 
1. Where do I find College Confidential? On the Disboards?
2. She is looking into other state universities, most definitely.
3. GPA is 4.0. No Honors or AP. We know that it's what colleges want, but made the decision not to put that much work, pressure, & stress on her. I've said this several times to college advisors during visits, "what do you want to see? On level courses with straight A's and 4.0 GPA? Or AP/Honors with B's and C's? " Most responded, "we just want to see good grades." But, we'll see about that. She just finishe 11th grade. We can help her with most of college tuition. She will come out with some student loan (depending on school). If it's a local, easier to get into college that just on ok school, we can cover that. She's interested in STEM: Engineering, math, physics.
4. I live in GA. We have HOPE scholarship and Zell. Zell is harder to get. Only looked into one out of state school so far. I think they said they will take some HOPE but not very much.
5. Haven't heard of "Colleges that change lives" schools. Thank you, I'll look into that.
6. She did do some Kahn Academy. Didn't help much.
7. Her first SAT was 1050. Second she dropped to 1010. Whn we went to the tutoring center yesterday, she took a 3 hour mock SAT and scored 910. Going in the wrong direction.
8. I do think she can get some merit scholarship at 2 schools she looked at. But then again, I hear merit scholarships are few and far between. The tutoring center said that most of GA colleges are requiring SAT scores.
Thank you for responding to my post. It's been a great help. I appreciate it.
Some people aren’t good test takers. And some are average students. And that’s ok.

And I agree that now, your DD is probably getting nervous while taking the test. It happens.

Sometimes we need to step back and look at the big picture.

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine. She took just one AP class, for the same reason. (I had twins, and her brother took none.) We figured they had their whole lives to be under pressure, they might as well try to enjoy their HS years without the added stress. That was our personal philosophy. She had a good GPA, but her SAT scores were never great. They both took a prep course at school, but not sure it really helped. (DS, especially, hated it.)

To complicate matters, she had her heart set on one program, at one school. It was the only school she applied to, but did put down a Plan B major (which was a good move). We later learned there were 4500 applicants to that program alone, and that they admitted students to it based on their SAT scores (which seems crazy, but it was true, told to me by the head of Admissions). So needless to say, DD didn’t get into the program - but she did get into the school, probably based on her GPA. And fortunately, the first year classes for the program that she did get into were the same as in the first year program she wanted, so that worked out.

She busted her hump freshman year, did well in all the classes, and reapplied to the program. (Which was a little pain as she had to take another test, too, to get in, which she passed.) And fortunately, she did get in, though some of her friends in the same boat did not. I honestly think part of the reason she got in was subjective - people in the program were making these decisions and it helped that she’d joined a club for the major and made herself useful. So by the beginning of sophomore year she was in the program she wanted, and she finished it without any difficulty once in, other than it being a very rigorous program.

What was really interesting to me was that some of the students who did get in right away, based on their SAT scores, either dropped out or dropped back, when they couldn’t pass some of the classes. I doubt that it was that they didn’t have the smarts; I think more that it was perhaps they didn’t apply themselves like they needed to. DD was at an advantage that way as she knew she’d been fortunate to make it in, she wasn’t going to let it slip away at all. Out of 160 students that started, only half finished. She got her BSN and is two courses shy of her MSN now, will be done this fall.

I think her experience shows some of the ridiculousness of going just by SAT scores. As I said, not everyone is a good test taker, however, they may have the stamina and what it takes to pass a program once admitted. I think she went into it with a healthy mind and was laser focused on what she needed to do.

DS made it in (even though his SAT scores weren’t great, either, and his GPA wasn’t even as good as DD’s), played his sport for four years, and got his bachelor’s, as well.

Neither of my kids got a penny of scholarship or merit money from the college. They each got a little from their HS. Both came out of their bachelor’s programs with just a small amount of debt. DD’s master’s has been mostly paid for by her employer and a scholarship she won at her work. They both went into it with the idea of keeping costs as low as possible, and they did.

So what advice do I have? Well, first, I just want to say, try not to sweat it too much. There is a program out there for every student who wants to go. Try to be realistic. I never read on College Confidential. I looked at it a few times and it stressed me out. I’d been through the college process (sometimes by the seat of my pants) so I knew what needed to be done and what they were looking for. They stuck local (Boston) and it was a great choice for the college experience (even though they commuted). Dates walking around Boston and games with the city skyline backdrop were really nice. Again, look at the big picture. Try not to go by what friends are saying and doing, everyone is on their own path. Hope this helps. Neither of mine were rocket scientists but both have nice degrees and are thriving in their fields.
 
1. Where do I find College Confidential? On the Disboards?
2. She is looking into other state universities, most definitely.
3. GPA is 4.0. No Honors or AP. We know that it's what colleges want, but made the decision not to put that much work, pressure, & stress on her. I've said this several times to college advisors during visits, "what do you want to see? On level courses with straight A's and 4.0 GPA? Or AP/Honors with B's and C's? " Most responded, "we just want to see good grades." But, we'll see about that. She just finishe 11th grade. We can help her with most of college tuition. She will come out with some student loan (depending on school). If it's a local, easier to get into college that just on ok school, we can cover that. She's interested in STEM: Engineering, math, physics.
4. I live in GA. We have HOPE scholarship and Zell. Zell is harder to get. Only looked into one out of state school so far. I think they said they will take some HOPE but not very much.
5. Haven't heard of "Colleges that change lives" schools. Thank you, I'll look into that.
6. She did do some Kahn Academy. Didn't help much.
7. Her first SAT was 1050. Second she dropped to 1010. Whn we went to the tutoring center yesterday, she took a 3 hour mock SAT and scored 910. Going in the wrong direction.
8. I do think she can get some merit scholarship at 2 schools she looked at. But then again, I hear merit scholarships are few and far between. The tutoring center said that most of GA colleges are requiring SAT scores.
Thank you for responding to my post. It's been a great help. I appreciate it.
  • College Confidential is a totally separate website. Not related to Disboards. Do a google search and you'll find it.
  • 4 yr colleges really want to see applicants take the most rigorous coursework available to them at their high school. So that means honors, AP, IB, Dual Enrollment courses. AND they want to see you do WELL in those classes.
  • If she's got a 1050 SAT, she should apply test optional wherever possible.
  • You need to find some "safety" and "likely" schools. Go do some Google searches for more info on that. Look also at the "Your College Bound Kid" website and start listening to their podcasts. Lots of helpful info on their site.
  • Whether or not a college requires test scores is something that you need to go look up on each college's website. Don't rely entirely on what the tutoring center tells you. Verify what they're telling you.
  • College Confidential's message boards has a Parents board. You should post there with your kid's stats (GPA, test scores, extracurriculars, what classes she took this year). And ask for suggestions on where to consider applying.
  • I'll be honest with you...engineering, math, physics majors are hard. Not trying to dissuade you, but your kid has a tough road ahead if, for example, she will not have completed pre-calculus by the end of senior year. For example, it's common for calculus classes at large public universities to have hundreds of students in them. If your kid is the kind of student who needs smaller class sizes, then you should consider this as you continue your search for finding the right fit. And be aware that Engineering majors usually require 3 semesters of STEM major-type of physics, 3 semesters of engineering calculus (harder than the calculus that bio or business majors take, for example), 1 solid year of chemistry, a couple of computer programming classes. Have her go look up the "major map" (i.e., major requirements) of the majors she's interested in on the websites of the colleges you're considering. That way, you both know beforehand what you're getting into and what will be required.
  • You can also save money on college costs by looking up www.modernstates.org. They have this "freshman year for free" program where you can take several classes (up to the equivalent of 30 units of credits) online...at the end of each online course, you take their practice CLEP exam. Once you pass the practice CLEP exam, then they give you a voucher to take the actual CLEP exam for free. The only amount you'd pay is the ~$25 test center fee (most test centers are at universities and community colleges). Not all colleges accept CLEP credit, but MANY do...to find out which of the ones you're considering DO accept CLEP credits, search on those colleges' websites (i.e., go to college website and do a search for "CLEP"). CLEP exams are administered by the College Board (same company that does AP exams).
  • Whether or not your DD could earn merit scholarships is entirely dependent on each specific college she applies to and what THEIR scholarship policies are. So go on the schools' websites and look it up. Don't just take somebody else's word for it.
  • Re: merit scholarships & a STEM major like engineering or physics - keep in mind that most merit scholarships require maintaining a certain GPA in order to renew the scholarship. AND if your kid is going into college not ever having taken an honors science or math class, they'll be diving into the deep end of the pool and maintaining a 3.0 WILL be hard if you're majoring in engineering, physics, or math. Consider perhaps community college first as a stepping stone. It's totally geared towards students like your DD and when you graduate w/your 4 yr degree, nobody gives a rip that you started out at community college.
 
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  • College Confidential is a totally separate website. Not related to Disboards. Do a google search and you'll find it.
  • 4 yr colleges really want to see applicants take the most rigorous coursework available to them at their high school. So that means honors, AP, IB, Dual Enrollment courses. AND they want to see you do WELL in those classes.
  • If she's got a 1050 SAT, she should apply test optional wherever possible.
  • You need to find some "safety" and "likely" schools. Go do some Google searches for more info on that. Look also at the "Your College Bound Kid" website and start listening to their podcasts. Lots of helpful info on their site.
  • Whether or not a college requires test scores is something that you need to go look up on each college's website. Don't rely entirely on what the tutoring center tells you. Verify what they're telling you.
  • College Confidential's message boards has a Parents board. You should post there with your kid's stats (GPA, test scores, extracurriculars, what classes she took this year). And ask for suggestions on where to consider applying.
  • I'll be honest with you...engineering, math, physics majors are hard. Not trying to dissuade you, but your kid has a tough road ahead if, for example, she will not have completed pre-calculus by the end of senior year. For example, it's common for calculus classes at large public universities to have hundreds of students in them. If your kid is the kind of student who needs smaller class sizes, then you should consider this as you continue your search for finding the right fit. And be aware that Engineering majors usually require 3 semesters of STEM major-type of physics, 3 semesters of engineering calculus (harder than the calculus that bio or business majors take, for example), 1 solid year of chemistry, a couple of computer programming classes. Have her go look up the "major map" (i.e., major requirements) of the majors she's interested in on the websites of the colleges you're considering. That way, you both know beforehand what you're getting into and what will be required.
  • You can also save money on college costs by looking up www.modernstates.org. They have this "freshman year for free" program where you can take several classes (up to the equivalent of 30 units of credits) online...at the end of each online course, you take their practice CLEP exam. Once you pass the practice CLEP exam, then they give you a voucher to take the actual CLEP exam for free. The only amount you'd pay is the ~$25 test center fee (most test centers are at universities and community colleges). Not all colleges accept CLEP credit, but MANY do...to find out which of the ones you're considering DO accept CLEP credits, search on those colleges' websites (i.e., go to college website and do a search for "CLEP"). CLEP exams are administered by the College Board (same company that does AP exams).
  • Whether or not your DD could earn merit scholarships is entirely dependent on each specific college she applies to and what THEIR scholarship policies are. So go on the schools' websites and look it up. Don't just take somebody else's word for it.
  • Re: merit scholarships & a STEM major like engineering or physics - keep in mind that most merit scholarships require maintaining a certain GPA in order to renew the scholarship. AND if your kid is going into college not ever having taken an honors science or math class, they'll be diving into the deep end of the pool and maintaining a 3.0 WILL be hard if you're majoring in engineering, physics, or math. Consider perhaps community college first as a stepping stone. It's totally geared towards students like your DD and when you graduate w/your 4 yr degree, nobody gives a rip that you started out at community college.
Thank you so much for all the helpful information. I will look into it all.
 
With the additional info about your daughter and her test scores, and the fact that she has no AP classes, UGA will be out as a first year. Transferring in is an option that is still on the table for her. Make sure to go online and verify that any courses taken at other schools will transfer to UGA.

Both of my boys toyed with going to auburn and Clemson. But, we said no. The out of state tuition was killer when they could go to UGA for free.

UGA still requires a SAT score for admission. Not sure about other SEC schools.

A piece of advice that I learned with my oldest - kids need to take AP classes in areas where they are academically strong. Don’t let her take an AP class in an area where she is weak - that is a GPA killer.
 
Since you live in GA:

  • Georgia Institute of Technology - don't even consider this. Bad fit. Your kid doesn't have high enough GPA & test scores.
  • Georgia State Univ - in Atlanta. mid-50% SAT range = 1040-1220. 69% acceptance rate.
  • Georgia Southern Univ - 68% acceptance rate
  • Kennesaw State University - 60% acceptance rate. ~6000-7000 students, so likely to have smaller class sizes. mid-50% SAT range = 1080-1240
  • Univ of North Georgia
  • Univ of West Georgia
  • Univ of Missisippi - mid-50% SAT range = 1000-1230. 88% acceptance rate. Scholarship info at https://finaid.olemiss.edu/scholarships/. They have Academic Common Market scholarships which your DD would qualify for since she's from GA. This covers the out of state tuition, so you'd pay in-state tuition instead (~$9000). cost of attendance --> https://finaid.olemiss.edu/cost-of-attendance-2023-2024/#1
 
Since you live in GA:
[snip]
Academic Common Market scholarships are available at a lot more schools than Ole Miss. However, those scholarships are only awarded for students enrolled in certain majors that their home-state's schools do not offer or do not have space in. (Ole Miss only offers it to Georgia residents for one undergraduate major: Southern Studies. ) The search engine of states and eligible majors for ACM scholarships is here: https://home.sreb.org/acm/choosestate.aspx

BTW, something to know about the SAT and ACT: they are very different tests that have completely different measurement goals. The SAT is an aptitude test that primarily measures aptitude and deductive reasoning ability (it tries to predict how you WILL do), whereas the ACT is a competency test that measures academic knowledge (it tries to measure what you HAVE done.) While there are some people who do well with both styles, there are a LOT of people who bomb one or the other of these tests based on the way that their brains work best.

In a case like your DD's, it sounds like her initial poor showing was such a disappointment that the test has now taken on outsize importance to her mind, and so each time she tries it again her stress ratchets up a little bit more, causing a poorer outcome. I'd suggest having her take the ACT next time instead, even if it isn't the test her target schools prefer; if she does badly she can pretend it never happened, but if she does well it will make her feel better about her ability, and will probably boost her test-taking confidence.
 
My philosophy was to take it once, unless there were extenuating circumstances like they were sick and didn't do their best. Then I advised my kids to go for a school where their scores fell in the middle of the range for acceptances. The last thing you want to do is spend four years trying to compete with a majority of other students having superior test scores.

My "superstar student" thanked me later when he was struggling with a beginning engineering "weed out" class. For the first time in his life he had to struggle with not knowing how to figure something out. (He actually hadn't taken all my advice and took the SAT a 2nd time and gained ONE point.) That semester he was glad he was at the state flagship and not MIT, he's not sure he would have survived it! My other son, a good student, got to be a superstar student at a good state university with slightly lower standards. (He had taken AP classes and got good grades, but always felt "less than" all the "really smart" kids. It was so good for him to get to recognize his own talents.)
 
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Two of my sonss did the Princeton Review SAT Prep. One went up 70 points and the other went down 50 points!

They did refund our money on the son whose scores went down.

Both actually said that the practice "Cracking the SATs" Princeton Review Workbook helped just as much as the in person tutoring!
 
Honestly ? Take the money you would put towards review tutors and put it in your college fund.

Do keep in mind that Engineering and/or stem majors are going to be difficult roads, and coming in without any honors or AP classes is going to be a bit of a bigger step. For that reason, I would look for some less competitive schools. I am engineer and went to a middle of the road state school, and even with my all honors/AP high school classes, it was a big step. I’m glad I had followed the scholarship money and wasn’t struggling at a top Engineering school. I was able to graduate magna com laude and it hasn’t made any difference in my career, but college was manageable instead of defeating.
 
Honestly ? Take the money you would put towards review tutors and put it in your college fund.

Do keep in mind that Engineering and/or stem majors are going to be difficult roads, and coming in without any honors or AP classes is going to be a bit of a bigger step. For that reason, I would look for some less competitive schools. I am engineer and went to a middle of the road state school, and even with my all honors/AP high school classes, it was a big step. I’m glad I had followed the scholarship money and wasn’t struggling at a top Engineering school. I was able to graduate magna com laude and it hasn’t made any difference in my career, but college was manageable instead of defeating.
As long as the engineering program is accredited, it really doesn’t matter how selective the college is.
 
We are struggling to keep ODS engaged in his schoolwork. He did not study for his SATs at all. He pulled a 1270 so I wonder how he would have done had he studied and prepared. He has executive functioning issues due to ADHD and gets behind and gets overwhelmed. He has a plan and everything he needs in place but does not follow through.

Right now I think the best thing for him is to go to a community college either part or full time that has a bridge program with the local universities (he says he does want to go to college). I work at one of those local universities and he gets free tuition remission for his undergrad if he will do the work. I hope his senior year is better next year. You can lead a horse to water, eh?
 
We are struggling to keep ODS engaged in his schoolwork. He did not study for his SATs at all. He pulled a 1270 so I wonder how he would have done had he studied and prepared. He has executive functioning issues due to ADHD and gets behind and gets overwhelmed. He has a plan and everything he needs in place but does not follow through.

Right now I think the best thing for him is to go to a community college either part or full time that has a bridge program with the local universities (he says he does want to go to college). I work at one of those local universities and he gets free tuition remission for his undergrad if he will do the work. I hope his senior year is better next year. You can lead a horse to water, eh?
Well, yes, but if he doesn't really want to go, it's probably a waste if there is something he'd be better at. How does he feel about a trade or technical qualification; something hands-on? He should do *some* kind of post-high-school education, but maybe a traditional college degree isn't the best path for him. I'd advise you to think about exploring alternative paths.
 
Well, yes, but if he doesn't really want to go, it's probably a waste if there is something he'd be better at. How does he feel about a trade or technical qualification; something hands-on? He should do *some* kind of post-high-school education, but maybe a traditional college degree isn't the best path for him. I'd advise you to think about exploring alternative paths.
Like I said in my post, he wants to go to college. We have already discussed alternatives with him and will continue to do so. Thanks.
 
Does she have test anxiety cause that could definitely contribute to those test scores. My sat scores were around the same as your daughter and I had As and Bs. This was almost 30 years ago though. I still got into a few engineering schools and finished my degree. It was hard. If she has good study habits she’ll do okay. Scholarships might be hard to come by though. Good luck!
 














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