SAP+ ?

[DanCali]

....I also think annual dues should be overweighed we speaking of SLAP as the whole idea is value "sleeping around" (i.e. outside your home resort). At that stage every point is equal and only your annual fee and length of contract differentiates "value" (aside from RIV and VDH that can't "sleep around" at all).

Totally agree with this. Which is why we went with Aulani subsidized for our main SAP (but also bought points at other resorts we'd definitely want to stay at). We can stretch out the WDW home points to take advantage of the studio availability at 11 months, and if we book at 7 months with the lower dues Aulani points and it happens to be a larger 1BR with a really nice view, that's totally fine too!

 

[Chili327]

I would suggest adding SSR data since it is the traditional goto for SAPs…for comparison’s sake.

We already know SSR is the better value, and i don't want to see how much better that value is.

To me, current resale pricing of BLT, middle of the road points chart and lower dues make it a good SLAP alternative to me. Combined with the upcoming renovation, extra bathroom in the 1 and 2 beds and monorail all make it a no brainer.

....I also think annual dues should be overweighed we speaking of SLAP as the whole idea is value "sleeping around" (i.e. outside your home resort). At that stage every point is equal and only your annual fee and length of contract differentiates "value" (aside from RIV and VDH that can't "sleep around" at all).

Technically this is to replace my current home resort, so I'm basically creating a combo value that maybe isn't a popular idea, but It's a sort of combo of SAP & "where i want to stay" which is why its SAP+. (i was just playing off Genie+, Disney+, etc)

Maybe they aren't considered SAP, its just researching a good value for a home resort.? (am i just messing with something that isn't needed?)

 

[tom1944]

SSR is about $10,000 less on a 200-point contract than BLT.

 

[Chili327]

It's super hard to make these comparisons as every resort is unique (that's why we own 6 home resorts!).

That what im trying to avoid. lol

I can see it coming already, i'm going to own 50 points at AKV, BC/BW, WL, Poly, VGC & Aulani to cover every single "area" of interest.

 

[ocdb8r1]

We already know SSR is the better value, and i don't want to see how much better that value is.

I don't think SSR is necessarily the best/better value slam dunk that it used to be. Where BLT and CCV resale prices are currently at, there are several contracts that are a better value than SSR on a pure annual dues+(cost per point over the life of the contract) basis. Combined with the fact that BLT is on the monorail, CCV has come of the best theming and both are in the Magic Kingdom resort area (which historically has had higher demand) I think they currently beat SSR in pure value (but clearly some of that is the eye of the beholder....but even mathematically I think they give SSR a run for its money).

 

[ocdb8r1]

SSR is about $10,000 less on a 200-point contract than BLT.

This doesn't tell the whole story and I'm not seeing that large of a divergence - based on the listings I am seeing it's more like +/- 7k difference for a 200 point contract (based on asking prices of the lower priced contracts for both SSR and BLT). Factor in the additional length of contract and lower annual dues of BLT and things look much closer.

Based on the listings I have seen, SSR going for 3.00 - 3.25 per point, per year remaining on contract. BLT is going for 3.40 - 3.70 per point, per year remaining on contract. However, BLT annual dues are currently 0.43/year less than SSR (now, we all know that could change over time....but with the information we have today, this is the case). That means in many cases BLT contracts could be seen as a better value.

CCV contracts haven't dipped as much as BLT, but it has a full 14 years longer contract than SSR, so it also starts to compete mathematically with SSR in several cases.

 

[Chili327]

SSR is about $10,000 less on a 200-point contract than BLT.

That may be the biggest factor in what's wrong with my calculations, is if its SAP you can't beat SSR, so me trying to incorporate the "where i want to stay" into SAP comparison isn't going to work, they just aren't going to compare.

 

[Pens Fan]

All of our SAP's are at CCV. For us it came down to the fact that it's our favorite resort so we'll always be happy if we get "stuck" there. Next we considered length of contract and point chart. I know point chart doesn't matter if you're going to swap out at 7 months, but as we spend a good majority of our time there, it does make it much more economical than BLT or VGF for example. Finally, our son is on our deed. We realize that he might not won't want or need the number of points we have once my husband and I are too decrepit to make the trek to WDW. As CCV is the unrestricted resort with the latest expiration date, we are guessing that resale value should hold up pretty well - at least in comparison with some other properties.

I came really close to buying some VGF2 points when they first went on sale with that great incentive strictly for SAP's, but in the end just picked up some more CCV resale (we already have 500 direct CCV points). VGF really isn't our style, and I don't want to have to worry moving somewhere at 7 months all the time.

 

[JackosinDIS]

CCV contracts haven't dipped as much as BLT, but it has a full 14 years longer contract than SSR, so it also starts to compete mathematically with SSR in several cases

Agree that CCV / BLT contracts absolutely compete with SSR mathematically, plus you are getting the added bonus of a home resort priority period that actually means something. The cost per point over the life of the contract is around the same plus if you need to rent the points you can get a higher price as compared to SSR (if going through one of the main brokers)

I am of course ignoring the higher buy in value / TVM for the purpose of these calculations, on the basis that I wouldn’t be investing that lump sum in the first place!

 

[tom1944]

I don't think SSR is necessarily the best/better value slam dunk that it used to be. Where BLT and CCV resale prices are currently at, there are several contracts that are a better value than SSR on a pure annual dues+(cost per point over the life of the contract) basis. Combined with the fact that BLT is on the monorail, CCV has come of the best theming and both are in the Magic Kingdom resort area (which historically has had higher demand) I think they currently beat SSR in pure value (but clearly some of that is the eye of the beholder....but even mathematically I think they give SSR a run for its money).

What I am seeing for the time I travel and the effort I am willing to put in to booking a room it seems that I can book the same room I want at BLT at 7 months using SSR points than I can at 11 months using BLT points.

If that generally is what happens saving $8,000 to 10,000.00 on the same size contract is tough to get past.

 

[tom1944]

This doesn't tell the whole story and I'm not seeing that large of a divergence - based on the listings I am seeing it's more like +/- 7k difference for a 200 point contract (based on asking prices of the lower priced contracts for both SSR and BLT). Factor in the additional length of contract and lower annual dues of BLT and things look much closer.

Based on the listings I have seen, SSR going for 3.00 - 3.25 per point, per year remaining on contract. BLT is going for 3.40 - 3.70 per point, per year remaining on contract. However, BLT annual dues are currently 0.43/year less than SSR (now, we all know that could change over time....but with the information we have today, this is the case). That means in many cases BLT contracts could be seen as a better value.

CCV contracts haven't dipped as much as BLT, but it has a full 14 years longer contract than SSR, so it also starts to compete mathematically with SSR in several cases.

You could be correct. My quick look sample for my use year might not be a big enough sample.

 

[tom1944]

This got me thinking about the actual cost between SSR and BLT. I have been tracking BLT deeds, so I went back and recorded the last 22 SSR deeds. The terms are points from 100-300.

The average price is about $34 different but I also sorted by points so you can see the actual point to point comparison.

BLT			SSR
$ 13,200.00	100​		$ 9,400.00	100​
$ 14,000.00	100​		$ 10,500.00	100​
$ 13,000.00	100​		$ 11,300.00	100​
$ 14,000.00	100​		$ 14,312.50	125​
$ 14,500.00	100​		$ 17,600.00	150​
$ 13,900.00	100​		$ 16,200.00	150​
$ 14,000.00	100​		$ 16,350.00	150​
$ 15,600.00	115​		$ 14,300.00	150​
$ 18,460.00	130​		$ 15,700.00	160​
$ 20,614.50	150​		$ 17,600.00	160​
$ 20,960.00	160​		$ 16,000.00	160​
$ 23,200.00	160​		$ 17,440.00	160​
$ 22,720.00	160​		$ 14,720.00	160​
$ 22,080.00	160​		$ 17,700.00	180​
$ 20,800.00	160​		$ 20,000.00	200​
$ 20,800.00	160​		$ 19,200.00	200​
$ 21,800.00	160​		$ 19,800.00	200​
$ 20,240.00	160​		$ 27,225.00	225​
$ 26,000.00	200​		$ 19,550.00	230​
$ 27,400.00	200​		$ 24,300.00	240​
$ 27,720.00	210​		$ 24,000.00	250​
$ 32,250.00	250​		$ 27,900.00	300​
$ 437,244.50	3235​		$ 391,097.50	3850​
$ 135.16	average		$ 101.58	average

 

[RichVIII]

Love the concept of SAP+. As a CCV and BLT owner, agree they are great for SAP+ but also agree that lake view at 7 months most of the time of the year is available. So yea, you can use SSR points (also an owner) at BLT and CCV, the potential for rentals, general guarantee of a better location fits the mold for SAP+ better.

 

[Sandisw]

That may be the biggest factor in what's wrong with my calculations, is if its SAP you can't beat SSR, so me trying to incorporate the "where i want to stay" into SAP comparison isn't going to work, they just aren't going to compare.

For me, SAP are point you never intended to use there and may not even book them at 11 months out.

We never use our SSR points at 11 months since we have enough RIV and VGF to get most trips booked.

Because I book a fall month and then from Dec to March every year, I get to hit the 7 month window for the fall trip before I need to book to book Feb and March.

My SSR point can almost always replace the Sept or Oct njghts…and then I have the RIV and VGF to use for Feb and March.

Sounds like to me you have options you’d enjoy for home resort but also know you will move around a lot too. To me, SSR might not be it for you.

 

[ehh]

That what im trying to avoid. lol

I can see it coming already, i'm going to own 50 points at AKV, BC/BW, WL, Poly, VGC & Aulani to cover every single "area" of interest.

As someone who has 5 home resorts currently, it's pretty great. Looking to get 2-3 more: Aulani, Beach Club, and maybe Poly2.

With my 5 home resorts, I know I get to stay a VGC a couple times a year, I know I get to stay at PVB 1-2 times a year, I know I get to stay at VGF every other year, I know I get to stay at RIV every year or so, I know I get to stay at VDH every year, and I still have enough PVB/RIV points left over to try other places too!

We've missed out at changing at 7m a few times for trips that we've really wanted to stay somewhere specific, so we're all for buying at those specific resorts.

---

I'm going to throw out a dark horse for SAP+: Riviera. Yes, restrictions mean direct-only (basically making this a limited time offer). Yes, dues started high and are currently above WDW average. Yes, the '+' probably does a bit extra lifting here.

But it has all the makings of a low-dues resort once it's sold out:

• Dues haven't really gone up in 4 years and are now just above the pack
• High points chart
• It's a tower
• Grounds aren't extravagant

Biggest risks are that it's standalone and the Skyliner is potentially expensive. I have no idea what the cost sharing arrangement is for Skyliner costs, but if it's per-guest then Riviera probably has the lowest share of costs.

Riviera also has a big Standard View vs. Preferred View points gap (IMO too big for the view differences), and SV is often gone by 7 months, making it worthwhile to own from a value perspective. Heck, SV Deluxe Studios and Tower Studios don't even last a day at certain times of year.

And if you're 'stuck' there, it's arguably the nicest DVC in terms of fit, finish, and features and has a solid track record of converting "I would never own there!" people to "I needed to own here" owners.

I even put my money where my mouth is on this one. Last year we wanted to add 200 SAP points to our SAP bucket, which covers our annual spring WDW stay and annual post-cruise weekend stay in December, which are both stays that we like to try new-to-us rooms/resorts, or treat ourselves to a CCV Cabin. But I also really wanted to get a resort that I would be okay staying at 100% of the time considering it's getting a little difficult to book at 7m at these times of year.

• Considered more PVB, which is a favorite, but we didn't really want to stay in Studios for these stays, even as a backup.
• Considered CCV, but we're really not interested in staying at CCV outside of the Cabins, which are always available at 7m (and an occasional use of these SAP points).
• Considered VGF, but 200 points didn't go far enough there for it to fulfill the '+' part. And it was 10% more upfront for 6 fewer years, just about $0.90/pt more upfront.
• Did not consider BLT, would need to see the 2024 refurb first.
• Did not consider SSR, we like it but it's a backup choice.

So RIV it was, at $176 for 49yrs of points, added to our pool of SAP+ points (PVB and other RIV), with a bet that dues will fall below the median longterm.

 

[DanCali]

• Dues haven't really gone up in 4 years and are now just above the pack

I am not sure if DVD does this but with timeshares it often happens that maintenance fees may be temporarily subsidized by the developer as a marketing tool while there is sales activity. After it's sold out, dues may rise disproportionately to catch up to where they should have been all along given the "normal" increases.

 

[ehh]

I am not sure if DVD does this but with timeshares it often happens that maintenance fees may be temporarily subsidized by the developer as a marketing tool while there is sales activity. After it's sold out, dues may rise disproportionately to catch up to where they should have been all along given the "normal" increases.

DVD seems to have variation of this that they've used for the last ~decade: high dues early but keeps them flat for a few years until the market catches up or surpasses.

• PVB started fairly high ($6.02), just a little less than AKV ($6.30), but had a Lifetime Compound Annual Growth Rate (CAGR) below 1% for the first 4 years.
• CCV started very high ($7.33 vs. $6.14 at PVB, $5.90 at VGF, $5.62 at BLT, $6.59 for AKV), but had a Lifetime CAGR below 1% for the first 6 years and is at just 1.29% currently.
• RIV started very high ($8.31 vs. $6.76 at PVB, $6.39 at VGF, $6.40 at BLT, $7.44 at AKV), but still has a Lifetime CAGR of 0.58%. 0.58% is less than any other resort through 5 years, including CCV.
• VDH started very high, too ($9.05 vs. $8.04 at VGC, $7.43 at BLT), but not sure how it will trend over time.

Note that CCV started way above market and is now considered a strong SAP candidate.

 

[Chili327]

For me, SAP are point you never intended to use there and may not even book them at 11 months out.

We never use our SSR points at 11 months since we have enough RIV and VGF to get most trips booked.

Because I book a fall month and then from Dec to March every year, I get to hit the 7 month window for the fall trip before I need to book to book Feb and March.

My SSR point can almost always replace the Sept or Oct njghts…and then I have the RIV and VGF to use for Feb and March.

Sounds like to me you have options you’d enjoy for home resort but also know you will move around a lot too. To me, SSR might not be it for you.

Sounds like we share the same travel window. (Oct-Feb).

I think SSR could work for me, AFTER I get some home resort points under my belt. I was trying to combine them and I think all of this still works for getting a good value, but SSR is truly better for actual non-home resort SAP.

 

[intamin]

That may be the biggest factor in what's wrong with my calculations, is if its SAP you can't beat SSR, so me trying to incorporate the "where i want to stay" into SAP comparison isn't going to work, they just aren't going to compare.

At this point its more back to a buy where you want to stay mentality . I do think that SAP+ can be its own category

On one hand you have the definite buy where you want to stays: BWV, VGC, BCV where nobody in their right mind is buying these points to stay anywhere but these resorts

For SAP: SSR and that’s it basically, maybe add a cheap AUL/AUL sub

The rest I would consider SAP+ to be honest:
VGF, CCV, Poly, BLT where the booking priority can definitely matter at certain times of the year, but you don’t have to feel bad about not using them at their home resort.

IMO, it really just depends on whether or not you think that home priority is worth it i.e. CCV/VGF during Christmas and BLT during July 4th and NYE.

I think if I weren’t a fan of Poly I’d think about doing VGF maybe? BLT’s home priority is great for the holidays but the point differential between standard and lake view (roughly 10%) is not as significant of a difference compared to standard and preferred at most other resorts where its typically closer to 20% difference in points. CCV is also somewhat tempting for fall/winter but I wasn’t a fan of the boat ride over but I think that’s just me.

 

[Chili327]

At this point its more back to a buy where you want to stay mentality . I do think that SAP+ can be its own category

On one hand you have the definite buy where you want to stays: BWV, VGC, BCV where nobody in their right mind is buying these points to stay anywhere but these resorts
For SAP: SSR and that’s it basically, maybe add a cheap AUL/AUL sub

Yea I think that’s where I ended up, they aren’t truly SAP, but just good value home resorts.
And yes my VGC points should never be used anywhere else.

The rest I would consider SAP+ to be honest:
VGF, CCV, Poly, BLT where the booking priority can definitely matter at certain times of the year, but you don’t have to feel bad about not using them at their home resort.

IMO, it really just depends on whether or not you think that home priority is worth it i.e. CCV/VGF during Christmas and BLT during July 4th and NYE.

That may be the true definition of SAP+.