Same college, different price!

[msmayor]

Well, if we're splitting hairs, you left off half the list.



I was referring to the last point. Having lived on your own and paid all your own expenses frequently is sufficient proof for the school's financial aid administrators. Post was done from work, so I apologize to anybody else who took my post verbatim -- it was intended in reference and not to be taken as law.

I never said it was enough to say "my parents hit me" -- that was put more along the lines of a scenario where somebody was emancipated or legally taken from their parents while under the age of 18, but thanks for your interpretation.

Your initial post made it sound like becoming independent was easy...just move out and support yourself and its done.

But its NOT easy as both my list and your list attests. You can't just sent your 18-year-old out to live on his/her own and expect them to fully-support themselves in order to meet the narrow window. And a parent cannot 'help' them live on their own in order to skirt the rules.

It was not a good strategy to bring up as a way to get aid. Its an EXTREME exception, and not one that parents can or should attempt to utilize.

 

[Green Tea]

We have found that to afford private colleges, you either need to be really rich or really poor. We are neither.

Dawn

I completely disagree with this.

 

[pintamino]

Your initial post made it sound like becoming independent was easy...just move out and support yourself and its done.

But its NOT easy as both my list and your list attests. You can't just sent your 18-year-old out to live on his/her own and expect them to fully-support themselves in order to meet the narrow window. And a parent cannot 'help' them live on their own in order to skirt the rules.

It was not a good strategy to bring up as a way to get aid. Its an EXTREME exception, and not one that parents can or should attempt to utilize.

Oh I definitely didn't mean to suggest it as a strategy -- just that is is an option (parents "helping" kids live on their own would to get around FAFSA rules would probably be considered fraud).

I have a friend who had to move out after her parents cut her off and it's a process she had to go through :/ It's not fun, but there may be a student on here who could benefit from knowing it's an option.

 

[MrsPete]

There are very few cases where a single child under the age of 24 can claim Independent status. These are things like ... parent is in jail. I love my kids an awful lot but I'm really not planning on going to jail so they can get a Pell Grant.

I'll second this. I moved out of my parents' house the day after I graduated from high school, I paid for every penny of my education . . . and although I visited the Financial Aid office a number of times to try to see if anything could be done, the answer was always the same: NOPE. You're 19, 20, 21 years old, YOU MUST BE a dependant! If I'd been a few years older with exactly the same financial circumstances, I would've qualified for a great deal more aid. If you're a traditional student -- straight out of high school, not married, don't have a baby -- they're not going to believe that you support yourself. Doesn't matter if you can show a stack of rent receipts, etc.

I do understand the perdicament: If everyone could say, "Oh, but my parents said they're not going to pay anything. I support myself", then a whole lot of parents would gladly pay their child's rent, groceries, whatever in cash . . . so that they could collect more financial aid.

But it sucks to be the kid whose parents REALLY DON'T PAY and to be told that you're a dependant simplly because of your age.

So what'd I do? I took a lighter course load than I could've handled, worked 2-3 jobs, did without necessities, and made it through.

 

[Sadie22]

I seem to remember that once DSs graduated from college, when applying to graduate school they were considered independent for purposes of any aid. They were required to submit forms to the universities before fellowships and teaching assistantship funds were disbursed.

 

[marie1203]

This drives me nuts. I have a friend and she spend all kind of money in stupid things like buying her daughter a second nintendo DS, goes out to eat, goes on vacations all the time and finally she has max out all her cards which doesn't seem to stop her because instead paying off her debt goes and spend money in something else. And now she qualifies for a government program to reduce her payment and rate to basically nothing. And what do we get for being responsible nothing!!!!

 

[sookie]

No they can't. Whether a child lives with you or not, they are not considered "independent" for federal aid purposes until they pass their 24th birthday or get married, whichever comes first.

Living with you or not, FAFSA requires parental information.

this is TRUE
or if you have a baby.

 

[kimara3]

I'm still reeling over the fact that anyone would pay $30K a year to go to college I went to a public university and I expect my children will do the same. We do not have large college savings for them, I hope to have enough to pay for 2 years at a public university for each child. They can get jobs and pay the rest, or get scholarships. I had NO help from my parents to get through college, yet graduated debt free. I worked as many as 3 jobs AND went to school full time. Somehow this generation of children have lost the concept of hard work

I remember my mom telling me years ago about a colleague of hers whose DD had to choose between 2 universities. One was a public university with a full ride scholarship, the other was an expensive private university with no financial aid. The child chose the expensive private university and her parents had to take out a 2nd mortgage on their house to pay for it. To me that is just insanity I have 4 kids and there is no way I'm mortgaging anything to pay for college. There is this wonderful thing called a JOB---get one

Unfortunately, once you add in the costs for room and board, even many public universities come close to this now. My daughter attends a public university that is often referred to as "the best value in a public school" and her tuition plus room and board costs 30K per year.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

No they can't. Whether a child lives with you or not, they are not considered "independent" for federal aid purposes until they pass their 24th birthday or get married, whichever comes first.

Living with you or not, FAFSA requires parental information.

not true, if they are not under your roof, living on their own for 12 months, working and supporting themselves, the parents incomes are not taken into account. You don't have to wait until you are 24. When I say out of the parents house, I don't mean living in a dorm and your parents supporting you, I mean total nonsupport from parents and supporting yourself. While they may ask for the parents info.. they don't take it into consideration if the parents are not supporting them.....

 

[LisaR]

Oh come on. Are there seriously this many people here who work hard and save so their kids can go to college and don't have the slightest bit of irritation/envy/anger/confusion etc. towards those who appear to party all their money away and then get grants?

I feel the same way about this issue that I feel about welfare,WIC, etc. I think there are many people who need these programs for a leg up and I have no problem with that at all. However, if I discover someone who makes the same amount I do, appears to have more "things" than I do, yet who still utilizes these programs - I get bothered.

I don't expect to get grants. I admit, I do wonder when people I see on here with their numerous Disney trips etc. talk about need based aid they receive. It does feel like because of my income level, I'm unable to afford the things other people seem to spend on because I know I have to save for my kid's education.

Obviously most of us don't know the details of other people's finances. However, I think it's human nature to be upset about what appear to be injustices.

I think the reason why it doesn't bother some of us is because the money goes directly towards education. It is paid right to the college. Kids aren't using it for beer money or drugs. Kids may receive the aid because their parents were poor or poor planners but they had to get into the college first. They did that by working hard in high school. So, no, it does not bother me that we will not qualify for a single penny because we work and save so our kids can go to college.

Your other example of welfare is a whole different situation. Some truly need it but there are people receiving welfare who simply don't want to get a job and are nothing but lazy. That is a very different scenario than the kid that is smart enough to get into college and his parents didn't/couldn't save up enough money.

 

[nancygirl1]

We are a middle class family with bills and a mortgage. My husband & I are both retired due to disabilities and bring home a modest pension. The government believes that we can afford $33,000 "out of pocket" to send our son to college. They figure that amount based solely on our income. They do not take into account any money being put out by the family.
My son applied to several private schools and even with the financial aide package they offered us, most aide was from Federal and State Loans with some in the form of school grants. It still would have cost us on the average of $26,000 for one year! We opted to send him to a State School because of the cost. We received no aid from the school except the offer of a Federal Loan and instuctions on how to apply for State Loans. We do not have the money to pay out of pocket and have to fund his education through loans.
It is an absolute disgrace where some of the aide money goes. I have a friend and she knows how to "work" the system and gets her son's education completely paid for through grants...no loans. It just isn't right the way they figure the amount of "out of pocket" contribution. He will graduate with a huge amount of debt, but he needs that "little piece of paper" to get anywhere in today's job market. An even that is no guarantee.
Can you tell that I find this all very frustrating?

 

[disykat]

I think the reason why it doesn't bother some of us is because the money goes directly towards education. It is paid right to the college. .

Is it? I've seen threads on the DIS about people waiting for their financial aid money so they can take a trip to Disney. There was a reference here by one poster about all her local scholarships that aren't going to her school, but are 'extra' for her because she got so much aid already from the school. (The two scholarship committees I'm on are specifically tuition only for this reason. We find it to be surprisingly common. Well deserving kids, but the money turns into prize money, not scholarship money at that point.)

I'm hoping my son gets lots of merit aid, he's certainly deserving - but I'm guessing I'll still be putting out a lot of money. If I hear of someone who has parents of similar income who spent rather than saving like I did and got more aid I would be envious, curious, and definitely frustrated!

 

[luvsJack]

Not true. If the child can provide evidence that they are completely independent for a year (utility bills, etc) OR evidence of abuse, parental information can be waived. It's done case by case and not super common. [I don't think having to give parental information is right, but that's another story]

This is not true at all. We have had several students that have been on their own for years, don't even speak to their parents and there was nothing FA could do for them without parental information. A student is considered dependent until 24 unless they have a child (and are supporting that child), are married or in some cases are active military (but not everyone under 24 in the military is automatically considered independent).

There is a form that can be filled out to ask for a change of dependency status but there are only certain, particular instances where this can be done.


Also, if a student is over 24 but has no means of support, they can be asked for parental information or income information on the person who is supporting them.

 

[eatsleepdisney]

Haven't read through whole post just first n last part....but as someone who did receive a lot of aid....
My dad lost his job a few months ago before we filed FASFA form however I did not receive any type of aid because of the fact the taxes frm last yr were used so I had to fill out a special form for both of the schools I was considering (one public and 1 private).
After the colleges reviewed the forms I received no aid @ all frm the public one- not vry costly ~$15K 4 tuition room n board (even cheaper 4 the other 2 public universities here). After this I had planned on going here since it would be a lot cheaper then the private school.
However I will be going to the private school in the fall due to the aid (already knew I had $14k merit n $1k 4 going to a Catholic hs, but the school was still around $19k. W/the aid I got about $5K grant and $3K workstudy and then about $3K in loans w/low interest n more loans w/diff interest that I won't need-did also receive this frm the public school but would have declined it as well.) So my total cost for attending the private school is around $8K w/rm n board incl. V the $15K for the private school.
This may not have interested you, but my point is it's a lot easier to get aid frm the private schools-esp merit so don't assume that the kid who got more aid got it just bcuz of his financial situation...and to the people who think that some of your tax money is going to people who waste their money, I bet some of it does-even though its not the kids fault the parents spent the money-but it is a lot harder to get money at public schools rather then private so most kids that do get actual pell grants and other stuff do need it. Private schools give out a lot of grants- and if they didn't then ppl like me would go to a different more affordable school then theirs.
I know that was rambly and choppy and might not make a whole lot of sense but it's just a little story/opinion...take it or leave it

 

[eliza61]

Is it? I've seen threads on the DIS about people waiting for their financial aid money so they can take a trip to Disney. There was a reference here by one poster about all her local scholarships that aren't going to her school, but are 'extra' for her because she got so much aid already from the school. (The two scholarship committees I'm on are specifically tuition only for this reason. We find it to be surprisingly common. Well deserving kids, but the money turns into prize money, not scholarship money at that point.)

I'm hoping my son gets lots of merit aid, he's certainly deserving - but I'm guessing I'll still be putting out a lot of money. If I hear of someone who has parents of similar income who spent rather than saving like I did and got more aid I would be envious, curious, and definitely frustrated!

Yes, and that would be illegial. Yes, as we have stated many times on various "welfare, food stamp, etc" threads, they are people who are going to rip off the system. It sucks, big time. Just like there are Bernie Madoffs out there who rip off wealthy people.

But the vast majority of students who take out loans or get financial aide do so for ethical, legal reasons Like going to school.
The vast majority are regular kids trying to go to college. Yes, I know every one knows some one who is milking the system to live in a mcmansion and go stay at the grand floridian but statistically that simply is not true.

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/debt/

THE AVERAGE which means the normal, what you find most often kid graduates with over 20K in debt so all these supposedly kids out there going to disney on your dime is simply not normal.

Yes, it is absolutely frustrating to hear posting doing illegal stuff and flaunting it. but it is equally as frustrating hearing this "my child can't go to school because some lazy parent refuses to work so I have to support their kid" rants also.

 

[Poohbear5]

We have twins in college, plus one just graduated college. We did not get one penny of financial aid. (And no, the state university no longer gives any discount to siblings.)
Our sons have a friend in the same major, he's PAID $600 a year to go to school!
The parents are divorced so dad's income and the mom's live-in boyfriend's income are not required in the formula.
This system definitely does not reward families who stay together and work to put away money for their kids education.

 

[Teacher03]

This is not true at all. We have had several students that have been on their own for years, don't even speak to their parents and there was nothing FA could do for them without parental information. A student is considered dependent until 24 unless they have a child (and are supporting that child), are married or in some cases are active military (but not everyone under 24 in the military is automatically considered independent).

There is a form that can be filled out to ask for a change of dependency status but there are only certain, particular instances where this can be done.


Also, if a student is over 24 but has no means of support, they can be asked for parental information or income information on the person who is supporting them.

We found this out this past year. We didn't get any financial aid for our son except loans. We always told our kids we would pay for four years, but if they went over that, they were responsible. Our older daughter made it in four years. Our son changed his major a couple of times, so had to go an extra year. We assumed at the age of 23, he could claim independent, and at least get a little more loan money. Nope. At the age of 23 and supporting himself, he was still considered dependent. (He's graduating next month)

Another poster pointed out the fact that some people use aid money for vacations, etc. My daughter's friend just bought a 2008 Mustang with her left over aid money. It's hard not to be resentful with the whole system when you hear things like this.

 

[punkin]

I just wrote out DD's first tuition check. It was pretty much full pay. That's $24K for one semester's tuition room and board, not including books. Somehow I did not begrudge anyone else's financial aid. I was just happy, I had the money to pay. I hope to be able to do the same for my younger DD when the time comes. In the meantime, I scrimp and I save.

We are not rich by any means. I am a SAHM and my DH works for the government.

 

[LisaR]

Yes, and that would be illegial. Yes, as we have stated many times on various "welfare, food stamp, etc" threads, they are people who are going to rip off the system. It sucks, big time. Just like there are Bernie Madoffs out there who rip off wealthy people.

But the vast majority of students who take out loans or get financial aide do so for ethical, legal reasons Like going to school.
The vast majority are regular kids trying to go to college. Yes, I know every one knows some one who is milking the system to live in a mcmansion and go stay at the grand floridian but statistically that simply is not true.

http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/debt/

THE AVERAGE which means the normal, what you find most often kid graduates with over 20K in debt so all these supposedly kids out there going to disney on your dime is simply not normal.

Yes, it is absolutely frustrating to hear posting doing illegal stuff and flaunting it. but it is equally as frustrating hearing this "my child can't go to school because some lazy parent refuses to work so I have to support their kid" rants also.

 

[Tistal]

Honestly, some of the attitudes in this thread are horrific. Once a student turns 18 and enters college, in the eyes of the law, they are an adult. To penalize a student because their parents couldn't/didn't want to pay for college is wrong. All I've read are words and phrases like "private school," "room and board," and "parents paying." These are all luxuries. Last time I checked, it's not a requirement to go away to school. Mom and Dad (while it is a great gift) paying for school isn't a requirement, and there are amazing public schools out there that are significantly cheaper than a private school. There's also the option to go to a community college for your first two years to get your general studies courses out of the way, and then you can transfer your credits to a 4 year institution (which saves tons of money).

I commuted from home my first year at a public school (which I was paying for myself), and I eventually got to a point where I was financially comfortable enough to rent an apartment near campus. Yes, I did get some aid (merit); and yes, I was busting my rear working multiple jobs. There were certainly some times when I was eating cup o'noodles that I would have loved some need based aid, but because how FASFA works I was considered a dependent.

Are you really suggesting that it's my fault that my parents chose not to help me with school? Place yourself in someone else's shoes. What if that was your DS or DD in that position? What if you suddenly became unemployed and couldn't help out with college costs? How would you feel if people took that attitude towards him/her? I would be willing to bet most people here, as most of them are attempting to help their DS or DD in some way, care about their children immensely and would be hurt if someone was talking about their child that way. It is unreasonable to think that a child at 15 can get a job, keep it, and save up enough to pay for 4 years of college by the time they're 18.

Just because someone fresh out of their parent's nest has less than you doesn't make them a horrible person. Many people leave the nest with nothing.

So, while some people in this thread are going "oh, this is so unfair to me as a parent" it really has nothing to do with you in the eyes of the school. If you don't pay the tuition bill, that I'd be willing to bet came in your DS/DD's name, the school would be going to them and not you to fix the bill...just saying

/off soap box