Rumor of future discounts

[Amy&Dan]

Well, I am SO far from being a millionaire it's not funny but I have booked and paid for 10 nights at the GF Club level from Dec. 1-11th for myself, my dd and her husband, and my grandkids who will be 4 and 1. We are DVC members since 1995 and wanted something different this year. I wanted the GF specifically for location and holiday decor and although I'm disappointed about the lack of monorail service for EMH, the reality is that with the two little ones, we won't be out late anyway. I did get a great discount on room-only, we'll eat breakfast in the lounge, and have our ADR's booked already with one TS per day and the Hoop de Doo one evening. We have extended family joining us and they'll be staying at one of the moderate resorts, hoping for free DDP. The older I get, the more willing I am to splurge on vacations. I work hard and enjoy the WDW resorts immensely and as I travel in a wheelchair with a service dog, ease of transportation and ease of getting back to the resort for a daily rest is a huge consideration. A WDW resort, to me, is not just a place to sleep. We'll bank some DVC points this year or use them at another time as I can't afford a yearly cash splurge...but every now and again, IMO it's worth it. If I were still raising kids, saving for college, etc. obviously my perspective would be different. As to future discounts, I think we'll still see them but perhaps they'll be something new that we've not seen before and even more enticing.---Kathy

See your post proves my point, that people from all walks of life book into all types of rooms and that discounts help them do that especially if they desire to stay deluxe.

Your trip sounds wonderful. I agree every now and then it is worth it. My one true deluxe splurge at the Poly was right after my mother died, since then we have done our usual values and mods.

I really do feel that discounts will stay but agree they will be less in the way of a huge savings. I am just not sure free dining, especially in months like June (which we just had) will happen anymore. I know for sure I'll be paying more which means I'll shuffle things around (tickets, resort category, length of stay) until I just can't make it work. Which hopefully won't happen.

 

[vinotinto]

Lots of talk about people writing to Disney to complain. I fully support such efforts, BUT... the only real communication they care about, in this regard.. is communicating with the wallet. If enough people skip Disney, that's what will make the impact. If they are booked solid, they won't really care about thousands of complaint letters from non-guests.

I really don't think discounts are dead. Rumors from CMs and travel agents seem to be split between, "something is coming by August" and "Don't expect anything."

But I think we can tell a lot about the current state of things. September is 1 of the slowest months of the year for Disney, and they only offered scaled back discounts. (Smaller room discounts, the memory package for free dining). In 2009 and 2010, they announced winter free dining in July..... Seems unlikely to be coming in July this year.

It's pretty clear, that things won't be the same as 2009 and 2010.

I completely agree with your post. Sadly, emails, letters is not what is going to cause a marketing change. The only change will come as a results of dollars and cents.

I am shocked at how many people think that Disney is just totally and utterly stupid!

Disney isn't going to discontinue discounts, promotions, and marketing campaigns.

I don't think anyone in this thread had said that Disney will completely discontinue discounts and promotions. I think what we keep hearing is that they will be scaling back discounts. What does "scaling back" mean? So, we may not see 40% off or FD. A 10%-20% off the price of a deluxe that has a regular tag of $415 night + taxes does not make that much of a dent. A 15% discount on a value does not provide that big of a discount compared to FD.

Also, the number of rooms allocated for promotions may become even more limited. We already see how club rooms seem to be mostly blocked off with pin discounts.

Finally, there's the issue of blacked-out dates. We've seen blacked-out dates, but it seems to me (and I may be totally wrong on this!) that there are more black-out dates now, and there may be even more in the future. Look at the Bounceback 35-40% off discount for this year. There are many black-out dates there (dates in October, November and December blacked out ) that are regular Fall dates (it's not President's Day, not Spring Breaks, nor Thanksgiving, nor Christmas).

Oh, and the last thing that really worries me is the priceline model, where you can get a discount, but you won't be able to specify your hotel or room category (just "value" or "moderate" or "deluxe") and once you book it becomes non-refundable. I hope they don't go the route of only giving discounts with "blind" purchasing because I am afraid the hotels would stay booked, but I am surely not booking a hotel blind.

 

[flickwizard]

I am shocked at how many people think that Disney is just totally and utterly stupid!

Disney isn't going to discontinue discounts, promotions, and marketing campaigns.

Disney isn't dumb - they know that more people travel to WDW when there is a better promotion or discount. In a consumption/capitalist economy - if we can get something for less than it normally costs, then it's going to be huge - and word will travel fast!

Should Disney end "Free Dining" promotions? That's for Disney to decide. However, they aren't going to make a decision that makes them less money in the end, they are not going to do it, and their stock holders are not going to allow them to do it!

For one, I think a lot of frequent WDW visitors are actually getting tired of visiting WDW. There haven't been any MAJOR new attractions in years, EPCOT is becoming a relic in appearance and in feel. For people who travel in the summer peak months, the crowds can be just too much, and at some point you have to see Disney Cruise Line as a competitor of Disney Parks.

Disney isn't going to stop discounting their packages - I'm going to stick my head about the water enough to say that for every person in this tread 'swearing off' staying on property, the vast majority of you will be back. It is too convenient. The perks are too great to give up.

Disney is an intelligent company with a very long history of innovation at all levels.

Will Disney discontinue free dining? I would say YES they will - it is just too expensive of a promotion for what it gives back to the coffers in merchandise purchases, other food purchases, etc etc.

Will Disney introduce a new and innovative promotion that will keep families coming back year after year? YES - you KNOW they will. Disney loves one thing more than money, moderately satisfied customers that start thinking about their NEXT vacation before the current one ends.

I think Disney would be better off following the lead of the cruise industry and offering a re-booking opportunity in the lobby of select resorts to get folks to book their next vacation while they are still on the property! It works well for the cruise industry!

Don't be so negative, don't be so 'finger pointy' at Disney for being an awful rotten company that makes millions of dollars every year, and don't make promises you won't keep!

It's Disney, and you'll be back. The next big promotion may not be as good as free dining, but it will be enough to get you back! Talk with your wallet, not with your threats!

I agree with much of this post. Discounting/marketing promotions are based on a cost/benefit analysis. If the economics work, they will still be offered. If not, they won't.

It may be true that Disney is trying to wean the public off of expecting a discount, but that does not mean they will not offer one if they see they have excess hotel capacity.

Free dining is a very interesting promotion. As the above poster mentions, the marginal increase in expense to Disney for the "free" food they offer pales in comparison to the benefit Disney gets from filling a vacant room, plus tickets, merchandise, etc., which is of course why Disney offers it. Essentially, all of Disney's discounts work that way, to get you to stay on property so that you should spend your money on all of the other items related to a Disney vacation (think of the old "stay 4 nights get 3 free" deal as an example).

Given the current state of the economy, consumer spending is down, and the first discretionary spending item to go are vacations, or at least scaled back ones. Expect to see strong Flordia resident or good neighbor states discounts (no flying involved). And yes, the DCL is a competitor and probably does cannibalize some resort guests.

In the end, if and when the economy improves and the general public becomes less cautious with their discretionary income (follow the airline industry as a guideline), expect to see fewer discounts. Until such time however, Disney needs to fill those rooms!

 

[vinotinto]

I agree with much of this post. Discounting/marketing promotions are based on a cost/benefit analysis. If the economics work, they will still be offered. If not, they won't.

It may be true that Disney is trying to wean the public off of expecting a discount, but that does not mean they will not offer one if they see they have excess hotel capacity.

Free dining is a very interesting promotion. As the above poster mentions, the marginal increase in expense to Disney for the "free" food they offer pales in comparison to the benefit Disney gets from filling a vacant room, plus tickets, merchandise, etc., which is of course why Disney offers it. Essentially, all of Disney's discounts work that way, to get you to stay on property so that you should spend your money on all of the other items related to a Disney vacation (think of the old "stay 4 nights get 3 free" deal as an example).

Given the current state of the economy, consumer spending is down, and the first discretionary spending item to go are vacations, or at least scaled back ones. Expect to see strong Flordia resident or good neighbor states discounts (no flying involved). And yes, the DCL is a competitor and probably does cannibalize some resort guests.

In the end, if and when the economy improves and the general public becomes less cautious with their discretionary income (follow the airline industry as a guideline), expect to see fewer discounts. Until such time however, Disney needs to fill those rooms!

I would love to see a 7-for-4 package return. I would consider changing my 4-night stay for a 7-night stay and they would have me captive for a full week. LOL. I would also love to see a good neighbor package return (when was the last time this was offered anyways?). We live in GA and have booked WDW trips as late as 3 weeks before. It would be a good way to fill last-minute unfilled rooms. And I would love to see a good bounceback offer. Not for next month, but for next year. But, that's just me dreaming

 

[drgnfly30]

I would love to see a 7-for-4 package return. I would consider changing my 4-night stay for a 7-night stay and they would have me captive for a full week. LOL. I would also love to see a good neighbor package return (when was the last time this was offered anyways?). We live in GA and have booked WDW trips as late as 3 weeks before. It would be a good way to fill last-minute unfilled rooms. And I would love to see a good bounceback offer. Not for next month, but for next year. But, that's just me dreaming

Amen to these!!! I loved the 4/3 offers, it was the one time I could justify a Deluxe!!

 

[Have3Kids&aHusband]

I would love to see a 7-for-4 package return. I would consider changing my 4-night stay for a 7-night stay and they would have me captive for a full week. LOL. I would also love to see a good neighbor package return (when was the last time this was offered anyways?). We live in GA and have booked WDW trips as late as 3 weeks before. It would be a good way to fill last-minute unfilled rooms. And I would love to see a good bounceback offer. Not for next month, but for next year. But, that's just me dreaming

I would love a bounceback offer for a year later. We live far from Disney and my husband only gets 2 weeks vacation. So he likes to save his days for around the holidays and to go into our kids' classrooms for special events.

 

[wdwfan]

But their goal with a place like a club room at the Grand Floridian -- their goal isn't to attract a public school teacher to book that room. That room is meant to go to someone who really doesn't care about the price.

This comment bothered me yesterday and it still rubs me the wrong way today. Lots of public school teachers stay at Disney on all levels from value to club level rooms at the Grand Floridian.

If Disney only wanted to offer the club level rooms to people who are extremely wealthy, then why would the rooms be discounted in the first place? Why not just keep them at their high price?

What I believe is that the large suites that are thousands of dollars per night before discounts and are rarely ever discounted, are the rooms that are most likely targeted to a "specific clientele" that you described in your post.

 

[havoc315]

This comment bothered me yesterday and it still rubs me the wrong way today. Lots of public school teachers stay at Disney on all levels from value to club level rooms at the Grand Floridian.

If Disney only wanted to offer the club level rooms to people who are extremely wealthy, then why would the rooms be discounted in the first place? Why not just keep them at their high price?

What I believe is that the large suites that are thousands of dollars per night before discounts and are rarely ever discounted, are the rooms that are most likely targeted to a "specific clientele" that you described in your post.

My statement was not meant to disparage anyone.
To Disney, and any corporation, all money is green.

They will gladly sell an expensive room to anybody that can pay for it.

But their preference is always to get the maximum possible revenue from every source. They don't plan out an expensive rate, with the intent of offering a discount, to make it affordable for the middle class.
They plan out an expensive rate, because their first preference is to get that rate. Whether it is a CEO, a stock broker, a teacher, or a janitor, they don't care-- but their first objective is to get 500 per night, or $1,000 per night, or whatever the case may be.

As has been constantly voiced on these boards, those rates are not typically affordable for the middle class. Disney doesn't care. Disney only cares about selling the room at the highest possible price.

So why do they sometimes offer discounts? Because sometimes, they can't get the full price. Discounts are the backup plan. If they aren't on track to get that maximum rate, then they offer the discount, to make the room affordable to more people.

During this recession, luxury spending was hit hard across the board. Don't forget the amount of layoffs on Wall Street, etc.
Thus, Disney had more trouble filling rooms at all price levels.

Their hope, as the economy improves, is that they can extract higher prices. Their hope is to get the maximum possible rate for that Grand Floridian Club room. They will happily take that money from anyone, but the middle class is not the targeted demographic for those rooms at full rates.

 

[wdwfan]

My statement was not meant to disparage anyone.
To Disney, and any corporation, all money is green.

They will gladly sell an expensive room to anybody that can pay for it.

But their preference is always to get the maximum possible revenue from every source. They don't plan out an expensive rate, with the intent of offering a discount, to make it affordable for the middle class.
They plan out an expensive rate, because their first preference is to get that rate. Whether it is a CEO, a stock broker, a teacher, or a janitor, they don't care-- but their first objective is to get 500 per night, or $1,000 per night, or whatever the case may be.

As has been constantly voiced on these boards, those rates are not typically affordable for the middle class. Disney doesn't care. Disney only cares about selling the room at the highest possible price.

So why do they sometimes offer discounts? Because sometimes, they can't get the full price. Discounts are the backup plan. If they aren't on track to get that maximum rate, then they offer the discount, to make the room affordable to more people.

During this recession, luxury spending was hit hard across the board. Don't forget the amount of layoffs on Wall Street, etc.
Thus, Disney had more trouble filling rooms at all price levels.

Their hope, as the economy improves, is that they can extract higher prices. Their hope is to get the maximum possible rate for that Grand Floridian Club room. They will happily take that money from anyone, but the middle class is not the targeted demographic for those rooms at full rates.

Now this post, as it is written, which is taking in "the bottom line" which is really all that matters in business, is a post I agree with.

In all honesty, I did not like your reference to public school teachers. I thought it was a biased statement and really not relevant to the discussion at hand. Because clearly, as you stated yourself, Disney does not care who forks out the big bucks for their deluxe resorts, only that you have the means to pay for it.

And as far as the economy, I think everyone responding in this thread understands where our country is financially and what the reality of that situation is to many businesses, Disney included. Spending on luxury items and vacations have taken a big hit.

Hopefully one day soon, our country's economy will bounce back.

 

[FigmentChick]

To add on to the fact that the economy is not rebounding as well as everyone would like to think: 23,000 jobs were cut this week by three major companies (Cisco, Lockheed Martin and Borders).

Disney needs to realize the economy is far from recovered and release the discounts already. Especially given the current state of things.

 

[havoc315]

Now this post, as it is written, which is taking in "the bottom line" which is really all that matters in business, is a post I agree with.

In all honesty, I did not like your reference to public school teachers. I thought it was a biased statement and really not relevant to the discussion at hand. Because clearly, as you stated yourself, Disney does not care who forks out the big bucks for their deluxe resorts, only that you have the means to pay for it.

And as far as the economy, I think everyone responding in this thread understands where our country is financially and what the reality of that situation is to many businesses, Disney included. Spending on luxury items and vacations have taken a big hit.

Hopefully one day soon, our country's economy will bounce back.

The reason I singled out teachers, was simply because I saw the profession as a prototypical example of "middle class." Some people would consider doctors middle class, others might consider doctors to be wealthy. But teachers are almost always thought of as being middle class.

I did not mean to suggest that I look down upon teachers, or that Disney was looking down at any profession.

But there has been much discussion here about how the rack rates aren't affordable for the middle class. My point was... Disney is not gearing those expensive rooms to the middle class. It's not that they would refuse to sell the rooms to the middle class. And if they can't get rack rate, then they will of course discount it to make it more affordable. But their goal, with the premium deluxe rooms--- their goal isn't to create an affordable product for the middle class. Their goal is to attract big bucks.

 

[Colleen27]

And as far as the economy, I think everyone responding in this thread understands where our country is financially and what the reality of that situation is to many businesses, Disney included. Spending on luxury items and vacations have taken a big hit.

Hopefully one day soon, our country's economy will bounce back.

I think part of the discounting decisions that Disney is making is them adapting to the ways in which our economy will bounce back... The recovery is a lot stronger and more meaningful for higher earners right now, while the working class is expected to struggle with fewer jobs and lower wages for the foreseeable future. So it makes sense to focus on ways to appeal to the higher-end, which may mean more premium experiences as well as not "diluting" the brand and the luxury atmosphere with steep discounts.

Apple is a good example of this strategy - iPhones/iPods/iPads remain a status symbol because Apple updates frequently and maintains strict pricing control, counting on niche appeal rather than mass marketing for profitability. Disney may be toying with a similar idea - rather than fighting the perception of WDW as an expensive, even out-of-reach vacation for the average Joe as they have for most of the last decade they could embrace it, counting on the per-guest spending from a more affluent customer base to make up for the lower volume.

 

[nemofans]

Well, there are teachers around here (Chicago suburbs) that make $100,000-120,000 a year, so they could very much afford GF club level if they wanted.

 

[nrpofp]

The reason I singled out teachers, was simply because I saw the profession as a prototypical example of "middle class." Some people would consider doctors middle class, others might consider doctors to be wealthy. But teachers are almost always thought of as being middle class.

I did not mean to suggest that I look down upon teachers, or that Disney was looking down at any profession.

But there has been much discussion here about how the rack rates aren't affordable for the middle class. My point was... Disney is not gearing those expensive rooms to the middle class. It's not that they would refuse to sell the rooms to the middle class. And if they can't get rack rate, then they will of course discount it to make it more affordable. But their goal, with the premium deluxe rooms--- their goal isn't to create an affordable product for the middle class. Their goal is to attract big bucks.

Drs are middle class at the upper level. They should be able to go to disney and stay deluxe. I know a lot them would balk at paying 800 dollars for a club room that is standard room. The rooms are not worth 800 so who is disney pricing these for. The wealthy are going to expect something better than what the gf club level offers.

 

[havoc315]

Drs are middle class at the upper level. They should be able to go to disney and stay deluxe. I know a lot them would balk at paying 800 dollars for a club room that is standard room. The rooms are not worth 800 so who is disney pricing these for. The wealthy are going to expect something better than what the gf club level offers.

There is no such thing as "should be able to go and stay Deluxe" --- There is no such entitlement.
Many of my friends and colleagues are doctors, and most people I know are in that income bracket. They don't stay at value resorts, but they also aren't going to pay rack rate for a Grand Floridian club room.

The only people who "should be able to go Deluxe" --- are those that can afford it. If the people that can afford it, don't want it.... Then Disney does have to lower the price.

But if Disney can get the maximum rate, then there is no reason for them to make it more affordable. There is no grand rule that says Disney has to make all their rooms affordable for the upper middle class.

Disney does seek to make Disney affordable for most people, to maximize potential guests. And to maximize their revenues, they offer price discrimination -- They offer some products that are affordable even for the lower middle class, and they offer some products that are only affordable for the wealthy.. and everything in between.

There seems to be an attitude in this thread that middle class... or upper middle class should be entitled to an affordable deluxe hotel. Disney has every right to try to extract the maximum $$$ out of their bookings.

 

[nicki.momof3]

Well, there are teachers around here (Chicago suburbs) that make $100,000-120,000 a year, so they could very much afford GF club level if they wanted.

Wow - I am a teacher in a wealthy Michigan suburb, at the top of the pay scale with a BS, masters, and ed specialist degrees and I make no where near that much. I think that number is a little inflated. Maybe adminstration but not a normal teacher that does not coach or do "extra" money stipends.

I am not saying that teaching does not provide a good middle class income - it does. But it is not a six figure job. Adminstration YES - teaching NO.

 

[moepanz]

Well, there are teachers around here (Chicago suburbs) that make $100,000-120,000 a year, so they could very much afford GF club level if they wanted.

I am not sure if this is accurate. My husband falls in this salary range (on Long Island, not a teacher) and we could never afford GF ever and forget club level. We stay at the POP sometimes a mod if we can swing it but never a deluxe. Way out of our range. I admit we are free dining brats. We go in early Dec. and are not sure if we can afford to go to WDW without FD this year. We are waiting.

 

[Amy&Dan]

The reason I singled out teachers, was simply because I saw the profession as a prototypical example of "middle class." Some people would consider doctors middle class, others might consider doctors to be wealthy. But teachers are almost always thought of as being middle class.

I did not mean to suggest that I look down upon teachers, or that Disney was looking down at any profession.

But there has been much discussion here about how the rack rates aren't affordable for the middle class. My point was... Disney is not gearing those expensive rooms to the middle class. It's not that they would refuse to sell the rooms to the middle class. And if they can't get rack rate, then they will of course discount it to make it more affordable. But their goal, with the premium deluxe rooms--- their goal isn't to create an affordable product for the middle class. Their goal is to attract big bucks.

I for one am not saying its only deluxe rack rates that aren't affordable to a lot of people, I think value rack rates are very high and unaffordable to many people of all types of income levels. Especially if you have been going for years and have always gotten a discount. Even with discounts, WDW onsite resorts and packages are becoming harder and harder to afford for all of us. Which is why the very possibility, no matter how remote they might do away with discounts and the fact discounts currently aren't what they used to be, is making some of us nervous and worried because we love to go but have a limit to what we can spend. To me that was the discussion of this thread until it somehow got to be about millionaires and who can afford the premium rooms at Disney at the upper end deluxe's.

I think most of us aren't worried or talking about premium deluxe rooms and whether its teachers or Donald Trump occupying them. The vast majority of people who stay at the GF aren't millionaires, Disney doesn't market to millionaires and yes many afford those rooms because of discounts and if the discounts go away I don't see the GF standard rooms or club level rooms being sold at the proportion they are now.

I think the overwhelming feeling regarding discounts for all levels of Disney resorts, is that if they do away with discounts, rooms and packages might be 20-30% higher just one year/vacation later. It won't matter if you are wealthy staying at the GF or struggling to make ends meet and wanting to stay at Pop, that is a large increase. I understand Disney wants big bucks and the absolute highest profit they can get. But I think if they completely do away with discounts, you won't see them filling up rooms. I know a lot of people feel there is a market out there big enough to pay rack rate but I think time will tell.

I don't feel entitled or think Disney owes me a deluxe room at an affordable price. I just want to be able to take my kids, my son in particular to WDW at least one more time, in 2012 and if I don't get a discount it will be tough. Not only because it will be expensive but because I'll be sitting there thinking what I paid just one year earlier!

I also think many of us are just fed up in general with how Disney does thier discounts. Having been 17 times in the past decade, I don't want to have to play the pin game. I want to book early with a decent rate, book my airfare when its still decent and be done with it. I don't want to build up fake trips, set up multiple emails, call their number and ask some poor cm if I have a pin and sit and wonder what I'll be paying when its all said and done.

I am fine if they do away with discounts as long as the rooms are priced competitively for what you get in the first place. In fact, I'd love it if discounts went away, the rack rates were adjusted downward so that we could all stop the waiting game for pins and discounts. I am willing to pay a premium, above offsite and always have been. But there is a ceiling that I and many others are close to slamming into and when we do, we'll sadly have to rethink how and if we do a WDW vacation.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Wow - I am a teacher in a wealthy Michigan suburb, at the top of the pay scale with a BS, masters, and ed specialist degrees and I make no where near that much. I think that number is a little inflated. Maybe adminstration but not a normal teacher that does not coach or do "extra" money stipends.

I am not saying that teaching does not provide a good middle class income - it does. But it is not a six figure job. Adminstration YES - teaching NO.

My brother lives in the Chicago suburbs (north shore) and there are teachers in his district that do make that. I assume they have been there awhile.

Teachers in my district here in the suburbs of Denver can make up to around $75,000 I believe if they have their masters and have been with the district for many years.

I do believe that the six figure teacher is not the norm but my brother is very involved in his district and very good friends with one of their teachers and she does indeed make six figures. Its a very wealthy district so I am sure that has some impact.

 

[saskdw]

This comment bothered me yesterday and it still rubs me the wrong way today. Lots of public school teachers stay at Disney on all levels from value to club level rooms at the Grand Floridian.

If Disney only wanted to offer the club level rooms to people who are extremely wealthy, then why would the rooms be discounted in the first place? Why not just keep them at their high price?

What I believe is that the large suites that are thousands of dollars per night before discounts and are rarely ever discounted, are the rooms that are most likely targeted to a "specific clientele" that you described in your post.

I think you have just taken these comments out of context. Every product has a target audience and the target audience for a GF club room isn't a middle class person with a $60k-$70 per year income. That doesn't mean that middle class people can't or don't save up and splurge for these rooms sometimes, but it isn't the target audience. My wife is a public school teacher and I didn't take any offense to these comments.