Rumor has it that Susan Atkins is dying

[freckles and boo]

Life in prison is a fair sentence. What I hope conversations like this will do is remind people how very dangerous "cult" groups and charismatic leaders can be when they become detached from reality and society.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I was a baby when the murders happened and lived in another country. But I have seen Helter Skelter the 1976 version. What is funny is that "Tex" Watson has been able to have congecal-sorry for the spelling visits, what is up with that?
As for Charles Manson he grew up in the jails so it wasn't a big deal for him to get put back in.
I remember every once a while watching the news when one of them comes up for parole, as if they would get it.
Squeaky Cromwell a Manson follower tried to take out Gerald Ford years ago.
I think the Sharon Tate has been torn down and a new house placed there, but still Abigail Folger and a couple others were killed outside. Then there is the guy who was in the pool house?
I think there has to be something down deep in you to be able to do that and maybe Charlie just brought it out.

The origial house was torn down...A new one was built but won't sell.
5 people died.
Steve Paret who was visitig William Garretson, who lived in the guest house.
Steve was 18 and was shot while pleading for his life
Jay, shot and beaten inside the house..He tried to help Sharon, isisted she not be forced to lie down as she was pregant....He was tied to Sharon Tate from over the beam and was found with a noose attached.
Manson and a follower came back to the house to "see what his children had done.. By his admission they moved Sharon ad Jays bodies and tried to hang them in the front door way..They couldn't do it so they put the bodies back in the house.
Voytek Frykowski,,Beaten with a gun grip until his face was unrecognizable..Stabbbed more tha 50 times..Died on the lawn.
Abigail Folger.. Active in the civil rights movement and worked in homeless shelters...Stabbed so severly inside the house that her intestine was coming out..Still managed to run onto the lawn where she was cornered.. Her last words were "Stop, I'm already dead" Stapped 20 some times.
William Garretson, lived in the guesthouse, survived and was a suspect

 

[JennyMominRI]

Does anyone understand why Leslie Van Houten (yes, her again!) was convicted of all the murders when she didn't go to the La Bianca house? I always puzzled over that.

She went in that housem held Rosemary down put a pillowcase over her head and stabbed her 16 times..
Linda Kassabian did not go in the house.
Leslie was not at the Tate house.

 

[SueM in MN]

The murders were carried out by what I guess we’d now call “home invasion.;”...................................
A fifth person, Charles “Tex” Watson, was tried separately after he fled the jurisdiction and fought extradition; a sixth, Linda Kasabian, turned state’s evidence and testified against the rest.

Although they didn't know it at the time (or at least Linda Kasabian testified they didn't know it at the time), the Manson Family participated in a bunch of what they called "creepy-crawly" missions that were really 'dress rehearsals' before the first murders. These 'missions' included sneaking into houses and stealing things while the inhabitants were asleep. That prepared them to go into the houses for the eventual murders without being detected until it was too late.

Charles Watson was the person Charles Manson put in command of the expedition to do both of the sets of murders. He got the general 'outline' of what to do from Charlie, but the details were up to him. After the murders, he ended up back in his home town. Since he was known there as a former A student, had cleaned up his act from his days with Manson and his family was 'not the sort of family you expect a murderer to come from.' That (plus going into a catatonic state, going down to a dangerous weight) allowed him to escape being sent back to California until after the girls had been tried and he knew what evidence had been used against them and who had claimed what. So, by the time he was tried, he knew pretty much what they had evidence of him doing.

From what I remember, Linda Kasabian had been chosen to go on the Tate 'mission' because she could drive and had a driver's license. Charlie didn't want the police to stop the car on the way there and not have a licensed driver in it. by the time of the murders, she was aware that to not do what Charlie said to do could very well mean you would never be seen again.
She also drove the car to the La Bianca house, but instead of being ordered in there, she was supposed drive the car to find the apartment of an actor show she knew; she and Susan Adkins were supposed to murder him. Linda testified that she knew which apartment was the actor's, but knocked at another door instead and that 'mission' was abandoned. I don't remember for sure, but I think Charlie was with them.

Charles Watson had been ordered by Charlie to make sure that everyone participated in the Tate murder. Linda's only participation was driving the car, so she didn't actually kill anyone. The evidence and the testimony of the other 'Manson girls' bore that out. Susan Atkins was taken into custody for arson when the Manson 'ranch' was raided. While in custody, she bragged to one of the other prisoners that she had been a participant at the Tate house. She also said there was one girl there who had not participated, which she was upset about. That girl was Linda Kasabian.
Linda testified she had tried to stop the murders by saying she heard noises and they needed to leave. If I remember right, the others did agree that she said that, but they had continued with the murders anyway.
So, at any rate, she was the only person who had first hand knowledge of what had happened without having actually killed anyone, and had remourse for her part in the whole thing, which made her a good witness for the prosecution.

 

[Planogirl]

She went in that housem held Rosemary down put a pillowcase over her head and stabbed her 16 times..
Linda Kassabian did not go in the house.
Leslie was not at the Tate house.

Great memory on my part. And that's what I get for posting when I'm tired.

I remembered that she was not at one of the houses and now I'm mixing up my particulars. I need to reread Helter Skelter. It's been.... it's scary how long it's been.

 

[TDC Nala]

Linda Kasabian actually did witness the murders of Parent, Frykowski and Folger at the Tate residence. Sebring and Tate were killed indoors and she never went into the house. Parent was shot when he encountered the killers while driving out of the grounds. Frykowski and Folger were trying to escape; they made it outside before they were caught and killed. Someone down the hill apparently heard Frykowski screaming but didn't know what they were hearing.

Because most of the Tate victims were prominent (Sharon Tate was a semi-famous actress; her husband, Roman Polanski, was and is an acclaimed film director; Frykowski was a friend of Roman’s who was staying at the house while Roman was in Europe; Abigail Folger, from the Folger coffee family, was Frykowski’s girlfriend; Jay Sebring, a friend of Sharon’s who was visiting her, was an internationally known men’s hairstylist. The fifth victim, Steven Parent, was just there to visit the caretaker, a young man who lived in the pool house. The caretaker either hid or they didn’t know he was back there. He was a suspect for a time.) The cops didn't immediately link the Tate murders with the La Bianca murders although the similarities were striking. The La Biancas were well off but they weren’t famous, and they didn’t live anywhere near the Tate house.

Can you tell I went and got the book off the shelf.

If you want to find out more, read the book, it’s a fascinating history of an infamous case. I read it many years ago and that’s part of what helped me decide to go to law school (although I don’t now practice). Ironically I went to law school in Los Angeles and I lived in Canoga Park, not too far from where the Spahn ranch was. The former LA coroner, Thomas Noguchi, was a guest lecturer at my school. Some of the pictures he brought to show were of the Manson crime scenes.

 

[SueM in MN]

If you want to find out more, read the book, it’s a fascinating history of an infamous case.

You also need a copy of the Beatles White Album to listen to when a particular song is discussed in the book.
It's not just the song "Helter Skelter" that Charlie thought was being used to send messages to him.
Charlie felt he was a great songwriter/singer who was just waiting for his chance to make it big. One song, "I Will" was seen by Charlie as the Beatles sending him a message that he should do something 'big' so they could 'hear his song' and come join him in the 'Helter Skelter' that he envisioned. Charlie apparently saw the whole White Album as a message just for him. The book goes into a lot of detail about that and hearing the songs helps to understand how the defense was able to bring the theory of "Helter Skelter" in as a motive.

The song "Piggies" was the inspiration for some of the writings left in the La Bianca house and may have been one of the reasons they were targeted in the first place; they were successful business owners and Charlie equated them with the rich little 'piggies' in the song.

The Tate house was apparently chose for different reasons; Terry Melcher (the son of Doris Day) and Dennis Wilson had had some dealings with Charlie. After a chance meeting with some of Manson's 'girls', a number of Manson followers moved in with Dennis Wilson (wrecking the house and spending his money). Dennis and Terry had investigated making a movie of Charlie's music and his family, but became nervous and backed out after witnessing some violence at the Spahn Ranch (Charlie's home base). This made Charlie mad.
Terry Melcher and his girlfriend, Candice Bergen lived together in the house that would eventually be rented out to Sharon Tate and her friends. That house was apparently targeted by Charlie because he knew the house and thought Terry still still lived there.
So, a lot of creepy coincidences and people who know they could just as easily been killed.

 

[TDC Nala]

the book says that Manson probably knew Terry Melcher didn't live in that house anymore, but he didn't know where Terry had moved (he'd been trying to track him down), and he knew that striking that house would frighten Terry.

That song is "Revolution 9" and it's weird even if you haven't read that book. Unfortunately ole Charlie was nuts enough to read stuff into it.

 

[N.Bailey]

I don't believe Susan is remorseful ..The only one I thik shows real remorse is Patricia Krenwekle .

This case has been a bit of a obsession of mine for many years.

Remorseful, Jenny? I don't think so! I believe it was in January of '07 when she wrote a letter saying that she NEVER did anything in her life that she regrets having done.

Now, as a non-murderer, I can tell you, I have done PLENTY of things that I regret, but not Susan Atkins? The good thing was, this letter was read at her last parole hearing (which of course was denied), from one of the murder victim's family members (might have been Sharon's only living sister, but I wouldn't swear to that).

She can't die in a painful enough way to satisfy me. I know that's cruel, but I don't care. The entire clan received the death penalty and IMO, when the Supreme Court once again ruled the death penalty Constitutional, those sentences should have been converted back to death. The victims' families were again victimized, IMO, by forcing them to go parole hearings to keep the savages locked up. In many cases, Sharon's mother, and her beautiful sister (among others), had to do so till their own deaths. Shame on the justice system for doing that to them.

 

[N.Bailey]

Sorry to ruin your rooting for this woman to die rolleyes:

I'm not sure we're rooting for her to die. Personally, I'm rooting for her to suffer severely.

 

[N.Bailey]

Get it right..I hope her death is slow and painful.. I hope that when she's near death someone says to her what she said to Sharon when Sharon begged for her and her babies life ."****, I don't care about you, I don't care about your baby..You're going to die and I don't feel a thing about it..You'd better be ready"


She is resposible for the deaths of 8 people, probably more..She laughs and brags about it...I have no pity..She's a monster

She's had 40 more years than her victims...
Sharon Tate Polanski
Paul Polanski
Abigail Folger
Jay Sebring
Voytek Frykowski
Steve Parent
Leno La Bianca
Rosemary La Bianca
Gary Hinman

You forgot, Shorty Shea.

Did you read that they recently were involved in looking for more unmarked graves at the ranch? I have no doubt there are more victims. One of the girls' attorney was killed by the family, too (of course, this clan couldn't have committed that murder).

 

[N.Bailey]

What Jesus would do is irrelevent to me. Honestly though, G-d may have pity for her. That's between her and G-d..He's much better than me..


There are also many Christians who favor the death penalty

Christ told those who are without sin to cast the first stone on the woman who had committed adultery. Honestly, I don't know what Christ would do in the case of murder, but the Holy Bible is crystal clear that someone who murders (not just someone who kills, man changed it to kill, Hebrew text said murder), does not deserve to live. I know you do not follow Christianity, but knowing you, you've probably read the Bible (not that I think one can read it once and be done).

I just get angry when someone tries to build the case against the death penalty based on Christian beliefs. Every time there is a discussion (on any board) about the death penalty, these posters come out of the woodwork, but their argument doesn't hold up.

If they're against (as I guess you are), for personal reasons, that's an entirely different ball of wax and we're all entitled to our opinions and beliefs.

As I go along in the thread, I'll probably run across those other posters that use the fact that it's not a deterrent as the argument against the death penalty, too. Again, that argument doesn't hold water, either. It's impossible to deter anyone when you're not consistent with punishment. It doesn't work with your kids, and it doesn't work in the courts.

 

[Mr.Monk]

I'm currently working as a medical provider within the Department of Corrections and feel compelled to respond on this thread.

Yes, this woman is a convicted murderer of a reprehensible crime. Her victims were taken from this world much too early. JMHO, Susan Atkins deserves her sentence and should never be allowed to "breath free air" again. However, I will leave the rest up to God.

I personally prefer NOT to know what crime of which they've been convicted but that isn't always possible. I'm currently treating an inmate with crimes far more despicable that this Susan Atkins. Despite the fact that this inmate would rather kill me than look at me.... I will continue to treat this inmate to the best of my ability. I'm not there to like them, I'm there treat them. And I will pray for this man's enternal salvation until he breath's his last breath on this earth. (I can assure you this inmate are already serving Hell on earth within his own mind. The final question for me... is: Will he spend the rest of eternity in Hell?)

But Hey... that is just my opinion.

 

[N.Bailey]

Actually I thought that Leslie Van Houten was the remorseful one. Plus she didn't actually kill anyone so I'm a little surprised that she hasn't been released.

Susan Atkins is a mess.

I don't believe this is true. Leslie Van Houten just refused to accept her participation in the *****nco's deaths. While she chooses to believe that she didn't deliver the final blow (and that may be technically accurate), she's certainly not innocent. In the world where I live, trying to strangle someone with an electrical cord, then putting a pillow case over someone's head and holding them down so they can be murdered is technically, guilty of murder, too.

She really likes to downplay her involvement and for that reason alone, she'll never be paroled (not that I think she should be anyway).

 

[N.Bailey]

I'm pretty sure that the evidence shows that she stabbed Rosemary while she was still alive... Leslie denies that, which is not very remorseful to me.

Patricia has take responsibility for everything she did ad views herself as a "destroyer of lives"

She doesn't even try for parole anymore, does she? I agree that she's the only one who acknowledges their participation completely and has concluded to accept the punishment.

 

[LisaB]

Wasn't Susan Atkins the one that was going to turn state's evidence but decided not to? Also totally of topic but why is the *****nca name not shown????

 

[TDC Nala]

Unless you split it up, La Bianca contains a filtered word.

The prosecutors were originally going to make a deal with Susan Atkins, who originally confessed the murders to a cellmate while she was jailed on another charge, but she reneged, so they turned to Linda Kasabian, which they thought better anyway since Linda didn't actually kill anybody.

 

[SueM in MN]

Unless you split it up, La Bianca contains a filtered word.

The prosecutors were originally going to make a deal with Susan Atkins, who originally confessed the murders to a cellmate while she was jailed on another charge, but she reneged, so they turned to Linda Kasabian, which they thought better anyway since Linda didn't actually kill anybody.

That definately made Linda Kasabian a much more sympathetic witness to the jury. She did some really bad things and actually ended up with a pretty unhappy life, bit at least she didn't kill anyone.

 

[LisaB]

Do you know what is ironic is all the victims were Catholic except maybe Rosemary La Bianca who was cremated. What is it with La Bianca that should make it filtered???

 

[JennyMominRI]

Remorseful, Jenny? I don't think so! I believe it was in January of '07 when she wrote a letter saying that she NEVER did anything in her life that she regrets having done.

Now, as a non-murderer, I can tell you, I have done PLENTY of things that I regret, but not Susan Atkins? The good thing was, this letter was read at her last parole hearing (which of course was denied), from one of the murder victim's family members (might have been Sharon's only living sister, but I wouldn't swear to that).
.

WHo said that, Susan or Patricia? It was Patricia that I said shows remorse... Not that that matters to me in terms of punishment.