Rumor has it that Susan Atkins is dying

I could be forgetting the events that I read about but I thought that Van Houten held her down while Krenwinkle stabbed her and that Bugliosi felt that was truthful. It's still despicable of course but this whole case was weird.

.

The prosecution maintained that she stabbed Rosemary 16 times while Rosemary was alive... She claims she held her down while Tex stabbed her, then stabbed her more after Rosemary was dead..
Even if she is being truthful, she is just as guilty, legally ,as Tex ,for holding Rosemary down ..
It's not 100 percet clear here


From Wiki

the night of August 10, 1969 Manson drove Van Houten, Charles 'Tex' Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, Susan Atkins, Steve Grogan, and Linda Kasabian to an address in Los Feliz. Manson entered the house alone, returning a few minutes later saying that the occupants were tied up and that Watson, Krenwinkel and Van Houten were to go inside and kill them.

Krenwinkel and Van Houten found Rosemary *****nca in a bedroom and sat with her. Van Houten put a pillowcase over Mrs. *****nca's head and the two women tied the electrical cord from a lamp around the victim's neck. Mrs. *****nca began to panic when she heard her husband, who had been tied up in the living room, screaming as Watson was stabbing him to death. Mrs. *****nca reached for the lamp and swung it at Van Houten. Van Houten fought with her, knocking the lamp away. She then held Mrs. *****nca down and Krenwinkel tried to stab her in the chest but the blade bent on *****nca's collar bone. Van Houten called for assistance from Watson, who entered the bedroom and took charge of the situation. Van Houten exited the room and stood in the hallway, staring into an adjacent empty room. Watson stabbed Mrs. *****nca several times and then found Van Houten, handed her the knife, and told her to "do something." Van Houten proceeded to stab her 16 times in the lower torso. Mrs. *****nca's autopsy showed that several of her wounds were inflicted post-mortem. Van Houten wiped the premises down for fingerprints, changed into Mrs. *****nca's clothes and took food from the refrigerator before leaving the home.
 
"Mrs. *****nca's autopsy showed that several of her wounds were inflicted post-mortem."

That's as clear as mud isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, holding her down or stabbing her while she's still alive - either one is despicable. I suspect from my reading that she is reformed now but does that even matter?
 
well to an extent isn't that happening now with the polygamist people in TX? They may not have killed anyone but couldn't they say in their defense they had been brainwashed allowing the men to be with the young girls and the adult women allowing it and whatever happened to the young men? Isn't it brainwashing?
I had to think about this one. :)

It is similar in a way isn't it? It'll be interesting to see if the brainwashing bit works for anyone. The question is whether brain-washed people are truly responsible for their actions?
 
Oh yeah. My uncle, who was a cop, had to drive her around LA looking for evidence they tossed out the car window that night. She gave him the creeps.
 

"Mrs. *****nca's autopsy showed that several of her wounds were inflicted post-mortem."

That's as clear as mud isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, holding her down or stabbing her while she's still alive - either one is despicable. I suspect from my reading that she is reformed now but does that even matter?

It says several...Is 16 several? I don't know. How would Laslie have know exactly at what point she died..Had Rosemary not fought so hard the girls would have done it all themselves.

No, I don't think it matters if she's reformed...I think she's the only one who has even a remote chance of parole.
 
But even the old testament said "Vengeance is the Lord's". I'm not an overly religious person, but there are some lessons taught by Christ that have stood me in good stead. Forgiveness is one of them.

People here are outraged and sickened reliving what happened over 40 years ago and there's much gnashing of teeth in speaking about how they're glad this person is dying in a painful way. And here I am. Calm, cool, collected, almost catatonically mellow, with no stomach pains or tenseness in the shoulders upon hearing of this news.

Susan Atkins has done nothing to me. She made a horrifying mistake 40 years ago and has been paying for it ever since. The victims have long since started their new lives elsewhere. The only person I'd be harming by getting all angry, vindictive or even vengefully glee-filled over her further misfortune is myself.

I have more respect for myself than to allow this peaceful easy feeling to ebb away over a blip on the screen that had nothing to do with my life 40 years ago and still has nothing to do with my life today.

I can change nothing in Susan's or her victim's lives. I can, however, impact my own life. I make the everyday choices that allow me to live in a serene state.


LOL!!! And did you get your calm collected two shoes at Miss Goodie's by any chance??
 
But even the old testament said "Vengeance is the Lord's". I'm not an overly religious person, but there are some lessons taught by Christ that have stood me in good stead. Forgiveness is one of them.

People here are outraged and sickened reliving what happened over 40 years ago and there's much gnashing of teeth in speaking about how they're glad this person is dying in a painful way. And here I am. Calm, cool, collected, almost catatonically mellow, with no stomach pains or tenseness in the shoulders upon hearing of this news.

Susan Atkins has done nothing to me. She made a horrifying mistake 40 years ago and has been paying for it ever since. The victims have long since started their new lives elsewhere. The only person I'd be harming by getting all angry, vindictive or even vengefully glee-filled over her further misfortune is myself.

I have more respect for myself than to allow this peaceful easy feeling to ebb away over a blip on the screen that had nothing to do with my life 40 years ago and still has nothing to do with my life today.

I can change nothing in Susan's or her victim's lives. I can, however, impact my own life. I make the everyday choices that allow me to live in a serene state.


While it's always nice to have the Buddhist point of view added to any conversation (even when mixed in with christian stuff), I think any monk would tell you that once you start going on about how peaceful you are about something when those around you aren't, it's probably time to let those feelings go and stop talking about it.

Like I'm probably going to do in a minute. :)

Rather than WWJD, it's more, for me right now though I'm not Buddhist and wouldn't be Tibetan Buddhist given that hubby is Korean Buddhist, along the lines of What Would the Dalai Lama do? :)

This is happening to her naturally.

There's a really interesting train of thought that I explored while learning about non Western ways of dealing with illness, that thinks about how can manifest things in ourselves.

There's a book called Your Body Believes Every Word You Say, written by, IIRC, a cardiologist, who noticed how many people with heart disease say things like "my child is breaking my heart". And theorizes that saying that so many times will actually start the process in your body.

My hubby was a bigtime liar as a child and young adult, but about ridiculously stupid things. He had to twist his mind to remember who had heard what story, and it was really hard for him; he almost always got caught out in his lies eventually. In his mid 20s, he developed a brain tumor. It's an interesting link that he finds interesting, too.

As a chiropractic student I noticed how many people said "they are a pain in my neck" or "I put it to the back of my mind", who were coming in with chronic issues in their spines...

So you, or someone, said something about what she must have done with her mind to make it alright with her to have done such things...and it makes for interesting thinking, that perhaps her twisting her mind around it all might have manifested itself.


Now it's hard to go too far down that thought-road outside of your own head, because dealing with the questions in your OWN mind is hard enough, let alone if others start asking questions. And, of course, for those who believe in karma...another person's karma is none of my business, all I can think about is my own (well, and maybe my family's when I have a free brain moment). So I bring it up as a "hmm interesting" not as something I want to talk any more about. :goodvibes



I was born in October of 1969 in San Francisco, my mom was a hippie, and Manson *freaked* them out so much. She and her group (she and my dad were friends with many people who became famous, or friends of friends with others, it was a big group) believed that anyone with longer hair could be trusted, was peaceful, all that sort of thing. When he was found to be such a horrible person, who had gotten other "trustworthy looking" people to do such hideous things, was shocking to their cores. Changed things forever, she said.

And of course it's a hideous thing to be in the news, when you're 8 months pregnant.

(guess my brain just had a free moment b/c "shocked to the core" came to mind as I thought, again, what caused my mom to get leukemia...and those two just slammed together in a big aha moment. of course it was still the blood thinners that did her in, but she did have leukemia before it went into remission!)
 
You're going to feel the way you feel until you don't feel like feeling that way anymore.

What an interesting point of view. I don't have a clue what it means, but it sounds peaceful enough.

Still, I'd have fried her in a minute if I'd been given the chance.
 
There's a really interesting train of thought that I explored while learning about non Western ways of dealing with illness, that thinks about how can manifest things in ourselves.

Yikes! On that note, I'm going to stop telling my DD that she's "driving me crazy!"
 
You should read "Helter Skelter" by Vincent Bugliosi.
I have read this book many times over the years and highly recommend it. Don't go by what you saw in the "movie". Bugliosi was the Deputy District Attorney in the Manson trials and gives a thorough accounting of the way Charles Manson controlled his "family" through drugs, brainwashing, and intimidation.

Every aspect of their lives was controlled by Charlie, very much in the way we see today with the polygamists in Texas. As with these people and many other cults, they TRULY believed in everything they were being told and did not dare to question.

Charles Manson believed that the Beatles were messengers from God and that they were communicating to him through their music. They told him that the "black man" was going to start a race war and that they would kill all the white people in the world but that they would be unable govern. They told him that the black people would seek him and his family out in the desert and hand over the reins of power. He preached this dribble constantly, in combination with drugs and brainwashing in the seclusion of a ranch in the desert. Followers were not allowed contact with any outsiders or family. He even renamed everyone. He also threatened to kill followers who tried to leave and some did disappear (Bugliosi speculates that they were either killed or a few managed to escape). What is known is that some simply vanished, never to be seen or heard from again. Many children were born into the family during this time and were moved to different spots to be raised by other followers. Charlie tore these children away in order to control and manipulate their parents. After some time, he became impatient for the war to begin and ordered the killings. He tried to make the murderers look gang related. He thought that the crimes would be blamed on blacks and would "spark" the race war.

For some of his followers, after years in prison, I think his control over them wore off and they began to realize the horror of what they had done. So many lives destroyed on both sides because of Manson. Most of the children born into the family were put up for adoption and their records sealed.

I have watched interviews over the years with several of the woman and do believe they have remorse.

With that said, do I think they should be ever be paroled? Absolutely not!

But I don't think I will be dancing on anyone's grave either.

JMHO.
 
The Manson family is one of the best reasons I have to be against the death penalty. I am an Atheist. I don't believe in an afterlife. The greatest punishment I can think of is spending 40 years or more in prison. I hope they all die in prison. I don't want any of them paroled.
 
We're here. Our compassionate and forgiving nature helps us realize that there's nothing we can say that would change anyone's minds. You're going to feel the way you feel until you don't feel like feeling that way anymore. When it comes to Susan Atkins, Charles Manson or any of the people who committed those murders 40 years ago, I only have one question:

What would Jesus do?

Jesus would forgive her, so that's what I will do/have done.

Jesus would have said something once to try to convince people that they are hurting themselves more than they are hurting the person they hate, then he would have forgiven them their feelings and moved on to more positive and productive conversations.

So that's what we've done and why you won't see too many of us posting on a thread like this.

Carry on.


Carly, I agree with you!
 
I have read this book many times over the years and highly recommend it. Don't go by what you saw in the "movie". Bugliosi was the Deputy District Attorney in the Manson trials and gives a thorough accounting of the way Charles Manson controlled his "family" through drugs, brainwashing, and intimidation.

Every aspect of their lives was controlled by Charlie, very much in the way we see today with the polygamists in Texas. As with these people and many other cults, they TRULY believed in everything they were being told and did not dare to question.

Charles Manson believed that the Beatles were messengers from God and that they were communicating to him through their music. They told him that the "black man" was going to start a race war and that they would kill all the white people in the world but that they would be unable govern. They told him that the black people would seek him and his family out in the desert and hand over the reins of power. He preached this dribble constantly, in combination with drugs and brainwashing in the seclusion of a ranch in the desert. Followers were not allowed contact with any outsiders or family. He even renamed everyone. He also threatened to kill followers who tried to leave and some did disappear (Bugliosi speculates that they were either killed or a few managed to escape). What is known is that some simply vanished, never to be seen or heard from again. Many children were born into the family during this time and were moved to different spots to be raised by other followers. Charlie tore these children away in order to control and manipulate their parents. After some time, he became impatient for the war to begin and ordered the killings. He tried to make the murderers look gang related. He thought that the crimes would be blamed on blacks and would "spark" the race war.

For some of his followers, after years in prison, I think his control over them wore off and they began to realize the horror of what they had done. So many lives destroyed on both sides because of Manson. Most of the children born into the family were put up for adoption and their records sealed.

I have watched interviews over the years with several of the woman and do believe they have remorse.

With that said, do I think they should be ever be paroled? Absolutely not!

But I don't think I will be dancing on anyone's grave either.

JMHO.

I read the book, and I remember it stating how they all had pysch workups done while on trial or waiting for sentencing. And they all pegged the girls as likely cadidates for violent offenses even without being attached to Charlie. I think Susan actually was the most violent of them(big surprise).
 
Susan Atkins is the one who was with Sharon Tate at the end, and under oath, testified that Sharon begged and pleaded for her life and the life of her unborn son and she got sick of listening to her so she stabbed her, to death. Think about how horribly, horribly cold and evil that is. It make me sick to think about it. Susan Atkins will get all that she deserves and more. Atkins, and the rest didn't simply murder these people, they butchered them, and testified later that the enjoyed it. Sick, Sick people. What do they with with sick animals. Think about it.
 
Susan Atkins is the one who was with Sharon Tate at the end, and under oath, testified that Sharon begged and pleaded for her life and the life of her unborn son and she got sick of listening to her so she stabbed her, to death. Think about how horribly, horribly cold and evil that is. It make me sick to think about it. Susan Atkins will get all that she deserves and more. Atkins, and the rest didn't simply murder these people, they butchered them, and testified later that the enjoyed it. Sick, Sick people. What do they with with sick animals. Think about it.

She also claimed that she had ,I don't know how to say this, "sexual enjoyment" out of watching Sharon die.
 
How about Steve Parent--he was just visiting a friend wrong place wrong time. Also Susan Atkins went one further than the rest of the girls with the murder of Gary Hillman. My mother dies of brain cancer and it was painful for the family but nor so much her. Susan Atkins will be judged in the afterlife but why should we have any remorse for her when she had no remorse for any of her killings.
Also the episode of Ghost Hunters was so fascinating and I always thought the voice of the child was Sharon's unborn son.
 


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