Riviera points can only be used at Riviera?

[BeachClub2014]

The opposite cannot be true. If I think that DVD have damaged their reputation, and if others feel the same and publicise that, then their reputation has been damaged.

My DVC contract clearly states that I am a member. The DVC website allocates me a membership number. I am not only a customer but a member.

I am not responsible for how DVD manage their business. The fact that they have adopted different rules thru time indicate that they have been unable to consistently manage their business well. I feel that DVD would benefit more from resale if they treated those members equally. No reputational damage and more discretionary spending thru their outlets.

I know why they are doing it. It's all about maximising revenue without regard to their customers. It is very short-sighted and probably not effective.

You certainly are entitled to believe that DVD/DVC has "damaged their reputation" by implementing/changing rules along the way. I don't agree.

Changing business rules and processes over time doesn't indicate that DVC has been unable to manage the business well consistently. Many would argue that adapting the business to meet the current environment and future goals makes a lot of sense. Whether or not the change with restrictions on resale contracts is a smart move will not be known until further down the road, but so far it sure hasn't seemed to have hurt sales or the product.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

The DVC product isn't destroyed and isn't being destroyed. It has evolved and changed over time. Some changes we may like, others not so much. I may not personally be a huge fan of restrictions on resale contracts, but I can understand the business reason for the change and accept it for what it is.

You did not actually address my point. What happens when half of riviera contracts are owned by resale owners? You understand that half of the reservations will be taken up by riviera resale owners at that point, right? Another 25%+ will probably be taken up by riviera direct owners. It will become almost impossible to get into riviera for other direct owners. The entire system won’t be flexible. We own plenty of direct points— at three different resorts, one of which is riviera. I’m not worried about getting into riviera. But if you buy at the new poly tower direct, within ten years, it will become very difficult for you to stay at riviera. Isn’t that the entire point of buying direct? Flexibility?

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

You certainly are entitled to believe that DVD/DVC has "damaged their reputation" by implementing/changing rules along the way. I don't agree.

Changing business rules and processes over time doesn't indicate that DVC has been unable to manage the business well consistently. Many would argue that adapting the business to meet the current environment and future goals makes a lot of sense. Whether or not the change with restrictions on resale contracts is a smart move will not be known until further down the road, but so far it sure hasn't seemed to have hurt sales or the product.

Thanks for allowing me an opinion lol

And I’m not the only one who has no faith in Disney management. Investors have spoken— just look at the stock price. And analysts have it as sell. Sad.

 

[BeachClub2014]

You did not actually address my point. What happens when half of riviera contracts are owned by resale owners? You understand that half of the reservations will be taken up by riviera resale owners at that point, right? Another 25%+ will probably be taken up by riviera direct owners. It will become almost impossible to get into riviera for other direct owners. The entire system won’t be flexible. We own plenty of direct points— at three different resorts, one of which is riviera. I’m not worried about getting into riviera. But if you buy at the new poly tower direct, within ten years, it will become very difficult for you to stay at riviera. Isn’t that the entire point of buying direct? Flexibility?

Not sure where you came up with these numbers, but no, I am not concerned about the ability to make reservations.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Thanks for allowing me an opinion lol

And I’m not the only one who has no faith in Disney management. Investors have spoken— just look at the stock price. And analysts have it as sell. Sad.

You're welcome

I think the drop in the stock valuation has far more to do with other business units/divisions than DVD/DVC and certainly not because DVC instituted resale restrictions in 2019.

 

[CVG]

You certainly are entitled to believe that DVD/DVC has "damaged their reputation" by implementing/changing rules along the way. I don't agree.

Changing business rules and processes over time doesn't indicate that DVC has been unable to manage the business well consistently. Many would argue that adapting the business to meet the current environment and future goals makes a lot of sense. Whether or not the change with restrictions on resale contracts is a smart move will not be known until further down the road, but so far it sure hasn't seemed to have hurt sales or the product.

Thanks! Clearly DVD have not maintained their reputation universally. We can agree that this is true.

Most Riviera Direct members will be completely unaware of the intricacies of what they have bought into, and may not be delighted when they find out. As you say, we'll only know over time.

Meanwhile, I think I shall change my spiel. "Are you a DVC member?" to which I shall reply, "Yes, but I saved $15K by not going for the discount card.".

 

[BeachClub2014]

Thanks! Clearly DVD have not maintained their reputation universally. We can agree that this is true.

Most Riviera Direct members will be completely unaware of the intricacies of what they have bought into, and may not be delighted when they find out. As you say, we'll only know over time.

Meanwhile, I think I shall change my spiel. "Are you a DVC member?" to which I shall reply, "Yes, but I saved $15K by not going for the discount card.".

I like it!

I have bought and sold many both direct and resale contracts over the years. I understand many folks' frustration with many of the changes. I do not like some of them either, including resale restrictions. But that's just the new era of DVC.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Not sure where you came up with these numbers, but no, I am not concerned about the ability to make reservations.

I’ll try to explain. It is convoluted on Disney’s part.

If half of riviera owners are resale owners, and this will happen as direct owners sell their contracts, as many are doing now as evidenced on resale websites, those points become riviera only points. That means those points can only be used at riviera. That means those rooms will be booked up by riviera resale owners and unavailable to other people. Yes, Disney is doing a great job of punishing riviera resale owners. Bravo. Lol. But they are also punishing other direct owners who might want to book at riviera. If Disney’s sales pitch for direct is direct gives you flexibility…

Eventually they will get sued with that sales pitch. Just like they got sued by annual pass holders in Disneyland. They sold an annual pass which people thought would give them access to their parks. But in reality, access was very restricted. If Disney keeps selling dvc with the idea of you can stay wherever with your direct points, when in reality I’m never going to be able to get into certain resorts— not simply because those resorts are popular but because Disney has structured the system so that I cannot get into the resorts. Lawsuits. Just wait.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

You're welcome

I think the drop in the stock valuation has far more to do with other business units/divisions than DVD/DVC and certainly not because DVC instituted resale restrictions in 2019.

The drop in their stock evaluation has to do with Disney’s treatment of their customers at large which does include all dvc management decisions.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I’ll try to explain. It is convoluted on Disney’s part.

If half of riviera owners are resale owners, and this will happen as direct owners sell their contracts, as many are doing now as evidenced on resale websites, those points become riviera only points. That means those points can only be used at riviera. That means those rooms will be booked up by riviera resale owners and unavailable to other people. Yes, Disney is doing a great job of punishing riviera resale owners. Bravo. Lol. But they are also punishing other direct owners who might want to book at riviera. If Disney’s sales pitch for direct is direct gives you flexibility…

Eventually they will get sued with that sales pitch. Just like they got sued by annual pass holders in Disneyland. They sold an annual pass which people thought would give them access to their parks. But in reality, access was very restricted. If Disney keeps selling dvc with the idea of you can stay wherever with your direct points, when in reality I’m never going to be able to get into certain resorts— not simply because those resorts are popular but because Disney has structured the system so that I cannot get into the resorts. Lawsuits. Just wait.

When exactly does this happen? 2030? 2040? 2050? 2060?

Yes, using Riviera points at Riviera will certainly reduce the opportunity for others to use their points at the Riviera, just like almost every other resort, especially BCV.

There is still tremendous flexibility and the DVC sales pitch doesn't offer a guarantee for getting into other resorts, it has always been, and always will be, contingent on availability. There is no basis for a lawsuit.

 

[BeachClub2014]

The drop in their stock evaluation has to do with Disney’s treatment of their customers at large which does include all dvc management decisions.

I think it has more to do with enormous debt, Hulu, declining streaming revenue, and making crappy movies.

Institutional investors care very little about customer attitudes or feelings. It's all about the numbers.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I think it has more to do with enormous debt, Hulu, declining streaming revenue, and making crappy movies.

Institutional investors care very little about customer attitudes or feelings. It's all about the numbers.

You do realize they are a consumer driven company. Lol. And that things like making crappy movies leaves consumers with a bad taste in their mouths and turns them away, ie. Affects the numbers
Now it just seems like you’re being argumentative. It actually sounds like you are agreeing with me that Disney management is sub par. . Hard not to agree that they are driving the company into the ground.
I just can’t wait for the firings and then the turnaround.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

When exactly does this happen? 2030? 2040? 2050? 2060?

Yes, using Riviera points at Riviera will certainly reduce the opportunity for others to use their points at the Riviera, just like almost every other resort, especially BCV.

There is still tremendous flexibility and the DVC sales pitch doesn't offer a guarantee for getting into other resorts, it has always been, and always will be, contingent on availability. There is no basis for a lawsuit.

No, unfortunately it’s not like BCV. BCV is hard to get into because it’s popular. RIV will be hard to get into because disney has inadvertently structured it that way.

 

[BeachClub2014]

You do realize they are a consumer driven company. Lol. And that things like making crappy movies leaves consumers with a bad taste in their mouths and turns them away, ie. Affects the numbers
Now it just seems like you’re being argumentative. It actually sounds like you are agreeing with me that Disney management is sub par. . Hard not to agree that they are driving the company into the ground.
I just can’t wait for the firings and then the turnaround.

Yes, I do realize this.

I am not arguing; it's a discussion.

I've been focusing my comments and discussion on the topic of resale restrictions and their impact on the business and customer satisfaction. Disney has a board of directors who will decide whether the current management team is meeting performance expectations. My satisfaction/dissatisfaction with management isn't all that relevant.

 

[BeachClub2014]

No, unfortunately it’s not like BCV. BCV is hard to get into because it’s popular. RIV will be hard to get into because disney has inadvertently structured it that way.

Yes, it is like BCV. BCV is hard to get into because the owners of BCV points (myself included) tend to use those points primarily at Beach Club. Your point was that Riviera owners will primarily be using their points at Riviera, thus limiting the opportunity for others to do so. The reason behind the usage, whether it's popularity or necessity, isn't relevant.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Yes, it is like BCV. BCV is hard to get into because the owners of BCV points (myself included) tend to use those points primarily at Beach Club. Your point was that Riviera owners will primarily be using their points at Riviera, thus limiting the opportunity for others to do so. The reason behind the usage, whether it's popularity or necessity, isn't relevant.

No, my point is that RIV resale owners will be forced to use their points at RIV. You are not forced to use your points at BCV. It’s a structural difference. Disney has structured RIV to become more and more rigid over time. I am kind of getting tired of repeating myself though. It’s not a discussion when you keep pretending like you don’t understand what I am saying and you keep misrepresenting my position. I’m just going to take it that you are an argumentative person and leave it at that. Have a good day. Try to chill out a bit.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

It destroys the product because the best thing about the product is the flexibility. And ironically it destroys flexibility for people who buy direct. For example… What happens when half of riviera owners are resale and can only get into riviera? Well, then it will be pretty tough for direct contract holders of any resort except riviera to get into riviera. Eventually it becomes a weird system where it doesn’t pay to buy direct. Dumb management. Or maybe they are smart and really do want to destroy the product. They seem to want to destroy the entire company as it is. Just look at the stock price. Great job, Iger!

the product that Disney sell hasn’t change at all.
my direct points a RIV are still *** flexible at every….
I can tell you for a FACT I will be able to use at the poly tower…

IF RIV ever get to the point where it is 50 percent resale, the direct owns at other resort will still have exatly the same ability to book RIV as they do now to book BCV.

the program hasn't change,
the product AS sold buy Disney HAS NOT changed

you on the other hand may be having buyer’s remorse… or at least that is what it sounds like

 

[Yankee626]

Could you Imagine if there were resale restrictions on Aulani, HHI, VB or even SSR or OKW. The resale value would be so low it would be impossible to sell. They will get away with these restrictions with RIV or POLY or VDH but I wonder if the line will be drawn with buyers at the Wilderness Camp ground Units. Would anyone buy a resale there knowing that they couldnt use it anywhere else ? I sure wouldn't.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Reputational damage. It destroys it when companies are seen to be NOT looking after their customers well - and treating them like dirt.

The whole "Are you a DVC member?" - "Yes, but not the type you want." is a constant irritant and reminder of the attitude of DVD.

Disney is incentivized you people to buy direct….
the extras are an incentive from Disney to their DVC customers…. If you didn’t buy from them they have no reason to incentives you….

 

[BeachClub2014]

No, my point is that RIV resale owners will be forced to use their points at RIV. You are not forced to use your points at BCV. It’s a structural difference. Disney has structured RIV to become more and more rigid over time. I am kind of getting tired of repeating myself though. It’s not a discussion when you keep pretending like you don’t understand what I am saying and you keep misrepresenting my position. I’m just going to take it that you are an argumentative person and leave it at that. Have a good day. Try to chill out a bit.

Um, okay. You too.