Rivera Price that would make you say hmmm

I would have to be paid to buy Riveria. I'm really only interested in resorts from which I can walk to a park. Since I usually try for a standard studio at BWV, the nightly point cost of Riveria would send me into cardia arrest. I'll be over 80 when BWV expires so the extended end date of Riveria does nothing for me.

I'll bite. Especially with all the recent talks of negative interest rates.

How much would you have to be paid to take Riviera? Would $1/pt be enough or would you need more?
 
With the current incentives I think that it could make sense as a direct purchase for people who love higher end properties (by Disney standards), prefer Epcot/DHS to MK, and plan to own for 20+ years. Even with the point chart and MFs, for a direct purchase it's still cheaper than VGF, and it's all 1 building which I know some prefer.

And there's the rub. Riviera isn't being pitched as cheap or affordable, it's being pitched at a higher end consumer that wouldn't purchase SSR or OKW in the first place. As the Disboards forum skews to 'value' and number crunching, its understandable that there's a visceral reaction to the property. I bought at Riviera because it is an upscale Disney resort with skyliner access to 2 parks. I fly 24 hours internationally to visit WDW. Doing so, I want a property that feels a bit more luxe. I also added on at VGF resale for MK access because it's also my taste. I could have saved a small fortune buying a bigger AKL contract resale but I wouldn't have been happy.

Especially in 25 years. When the 2042s disappear and the resale population continues to grow. There will be more people who have restrictions (demand) and less resorts for them to book (supply). The resale buyers at PVB and CCV (raises hand) will be in for a huge fight as time goes along and more disappear. We think bungalow and cabin points are a problem now...what will they be when it’s our only resort option?

See, I think what you mentioned is more of a problem than Riviera is. The scramble for those studios at CCV (already happening) is a looming nightmare for the future. I looked at purchasing a fixed week at CCV before ultimately deciding to go with Riviera in spite of restrictions. The reason? If I wanted to change my fixed week to floating points, it will be a lot easier to do at Riviera than CCV.
 
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I'd likely buy a small contract at $40-$50 a point. Uninterested in RIV resale and don't include it on my searches.
Funny thing is I actually like the resort from what I've seen and want to check it out one day.
 
I would have to be paid to buy Riveria. I'm really only interested in resorts from which I can walk to a park. Since I usually try for a standard studio at BWV, the nightly point cost of Riveria would send me into cardia arrest. I'll be over 80 when BWV expires so the extended end date of Riveria does nothing for me.

I am glad I am not the only one to think this way. There is no way I would even take on a contract at Riviera for free as I don't want to be burdened with paying the AD. The way it's structured, it's basically just like every other timeshares out there, which essentially require paying someone off to take contracts off their hands.

LAX
 


I took the tour when I was at Disney World last winter. And I was not at all impressed. The rooms were nice, but there are no grounds, a very small pool, and a tiny lobby area. Add to that the resale restrictions, and I wouldn't pay to own there.
 
We aren't overly concerned about the resale restrictions. We see ourselves owning until well into the future so resale isn't that huge a concern anyway but even if we do decide to sell I am unconvinced the resale price will be that low.

Even if we were to sell in, say, 10 years, at that point 40 year RIV contracts with restrictions are competing with a huge crop of contracts with 10 or 11 years left on them. At that point 2042 resorts will be all but worthless and I doubt the restrictions will be looking that bad in comparison.
 
We aren't overly concerned about the resale restrictions. We see ourselves owning until well into the future so resale isn't that huge a concern anyway but even if we do decide to sell I am unconvinced the resale price will be that low.

Even if we were to sell in, say, 10 years, at that point 40 year RIV contracts with restrictions are competing with a huge crop of contracts with 10 or 11 years left on them. At that point 2042 resorts will be all but worthless and I doubt the restrictions will be looking that bad in comparison.

Disney is banking on people buying Riviera without worry about resale restrictions because they're planning to be in it for the long haul. And, if that's how it works out, then it's fine for them. They know the point charts, MF, and like the resort itself.

The problem is that many people who plan to hold and use DVC often find they need an exit for one reason or another. It's not something they foresee when they buy, but life happens. Even with other non-Disney resorts, people buy timeshares because they think they are going to want to vacation there forever, despite the fact that those timeshares have no resale value at all.

I think the people on this board have been around to see it happen, so they tend to skew more towards having a contingency plan, even if they don't think they'll ever need to use it.

I think you're right that the 2042 resorts will come waaayyyy down in the next decade. Actually, I hope that's the case. And then maybe I'll scoop some up for super cheap and enjoy some nice stays for basically the cost of MF.
 


I think you're right that the 2042 resorts will come waaayyyy down in the next decade. Actually, I hope that's the case. And then maybe I'll scoop some up for super cheap and enjoy some nice stays for basically the cost of MF.
It still amazes me that the BCVs sell for $135-160/ point. Toward the higher range of that price point your breakeven is roughly 10-12 years away and then you only have another 10 years left of useful life on the contract! That’s straight loony tunes IMO.
 
It still amazes me that the BCVs sell for $135-160/ point. Toward the higher range of that price point your breakeven is roughly 10-12 years away and then you only have another 10 years left of useful life on the contract! That’s straight loony tunes IMO.
The nightly price for a Beach Club hotel room is so obscene it’s still not too hard to make the math work for DVC, depending on the time of year you want to go. And at the same time I’m not sure too many people are looking more than 20 years in the future when they buy. But no doubt it’s the most expensive resale of the WDW resorts when considering contract length, @i<3riviera posted a great analysis on that last month:
this is based on the biannual DVC Resale Market analysis ...
https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/best-economical-dvc-resort-to-purchase-spring-2020/expanding on this, if you buy where you want to stay, the point charts of each resort have an impact on value of your points when you turn them into a resort stay

said another way, what's the most economical DVC purchase in terms of total cost per week (assuming one per year) for the rest of the life of the resort?

for example, if you want one week every Oct in a deluxe studio - standard, you will need 129 points at PVB but only 85 points at OKW; so while PVB points resale may be the most economical in terms of cost per point for the full life (DVC Resale Market analysis), when you translate that to home resort stays it comes in third to last for resale, only losing to BRV and BCV

if you plan to sleep at many different resorts and not use the 11-8 month booking window, this analysis doesn't really apply to you and you should use the DVC Resale Market analysis (PVB is the best)

assumptions:
limited to Walt Disney World resorts​
2020 real valuation (how many 2020 USD do I need to spend in all future years)​
dues will roughly grow at the same rate leaving the relative dues cost between resorts unchanged (not perfect but no better information)​
the 2021 point chart is reflective of the future point charts (again not perfect but better than assuming 2020 chart)​
ranked based on 2021 season C (May 1 - Jun 10, Oct 1 - Nov 23, Nov 27 - 30) as Oct seems to be pretty popular with DVC folks​
compared deluxe studio - standard, 1 bedroom - standard, 2 bedroom - standard, 3 bedroom - preferred as most resorts have them; added RVA tower studios for information (though not comparable to deluxe studios)​
at the end of the current resort life, the value goes to zero (contractually this is what will happen but things may change?)​
RVA and CCV 200 point costs were based on the promotion ending 28 Apr 2020 (not sure what it will be going forward)​
RVA resale 129 USD / point is based on the simple average of three deeds (not weighted)​
109 USD / point - 1 May 2020 deed 412 points for 45,000 USD​
144 USD / point - 3 May 2020 deed 125 points for 18,000 USD​
135 USD / point - 8 May 2020 deed 100 points for 13,500 USD​

how is this useful? it's another view folks can take into consideration when evaluating if a DVC purchase makes sense for them; if you follow them mantra of buy where you want to stay, this will have more value to you

interesting tidbits
OKW, SSR, and AKV compete for the most economical resorts in all categories in both direct and resale​
there is significant overlap between direct and resale in the middle (for different resorts; A resale vs. B direct)​
BCV suffers significantly from the short time frame (similar to DVC Resale Market's analysis)​
PVB goes from best to third to worst (when looking at resale, deluxe studio - standard, in Oct 2021+)​

deluxe studio - standard / tower studios
View attachment 499765

1 bedroom - standard
View attachment 499766

2 bedroom - standard
View attachment 499767

3 bedroom - preferred
View attachment 499768
edit: typo; added RVA tower studios
 
It still amazes me that the BCVs sell for $135-160/ point. Toward the higher range of that price point your breakeven is roughly 10-12 years away and then you only have another 10 years left of useful life on the contract! That’s straight loony tunes IMO.
Not to me. Not everyone is looking for a 50 year commitment or wants to leave a financial obligation to their heirs (who may or may not be Disney fans and who may or may not be able to afford those vacations).

If BCV still compares favorably to Disney cash prices and if that is where one's heart resides, why not BCV? You still need to own there to be sure you can get what you want, when you want it!I

A DVC purchase is a luxury, and it's not only about the money
 
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Disney is banking on people buying Riviera without worry about resale restrictions because they're planning to be in it for the long haul. And, if that's how it works out, then it's fine for them. They know the point charts, MF, and like the resort itself.

The problem is that many people who plan to hold and use DVC often find they need an exit for one reason or another. It's not something they foresee when they buy, but life happens. Even with other non-Disney resorts, people buy timeshares because they think they are going to want to vacation there forever, despite the fact that those timeshares have no resale value at all.

I think the people on this board have been around to see it happen, so they tend to skew more towards having a contingency plan, even if they don't think they'll ever need to use it.

I think you're right that the 2042 resorts will come waaayyyy down in the next decade. Actually, I hope that's the case. And then maybe I'll scoop some up for super cheap and enjoy some nice stays for basically the cost of MF.

We bought RIV direct and we're not concerned about an exit strategy since we don't plan on selling. If we really, really need to sell for some reason, we could sell one of our other four home resort contracts that don't have restrictions. If we don't sell, our use of our RIV points is no different than any of our other points.
 
Especially in 25 years. When the 2042s disappear and the resale population continues to grow. There will be more people who have restrictions (demand) and less resorts for them to book (supply). The resale buyers at PVB and CCV (raises hand) will be in for a huge fight as time goes along and more disappear. We think bungalow and cabin points are a problem now...what will they be when it’s our only resort option?
As a recent poly resale buyer, can I ask you to be a little more specific about the fight I'm in for? I plan to stay in studios; do you think there will be issues with point distributions in the future? I'm within 10 days so I can still back out, LOL
 
Especially in 25 years. When the 2042s disappear and the resale population continues to grow. There will be more people who have restrictions (demand) and less resorts for them to book (supply). The resale buyers at PVB and CCV (raises hand) will be in for a huge fight as time goes along and more disappear. We think bungalow and cabin points are a problem now...what will they be when it’s our only resort option?
I’ve been thinking about this on and off all day and I don’t think I agree. Sure, once BCV, BRV, BWV, VB, and HHI aren’t there to trade into there will be fewer resorts to trade resale points into, but there will also be that many fewer points to trade from. So at that point SSR, VGC, AKV, AUL, VGF, CCV, Poly, BLT and OKW will only be able to trade around with each other, but that’s a ton of gigantic resorts, mostly bigger than what they’ll be building. Those 5 resorts ending in 2042 just won’t take that many points out of DVC 1.0.

And resale owners for RVA and Disneyland Hotel DVC plus whatever is next will not be able to get in on that grouping, so even as those resorts add post 2019 resale buyers with restrictions, the newer properties adding them too will slow down the March to that tipping point where more points can get in than can get out. The tipping point where there’s more owners who can’t get points out of DVC 1.0 than who can get points into DVC 1.0 isn’t likely until SSR ends in 2054 or perhaps in 2057 when AKV and OKW do.

And even then it’s only an issue if you didn't buy where you want to stay with the 4 month booking advantage.
 
As a recent poly resale buyer, can I ask you to be a little more specific about the fight I'm in for?

When SSR (the biggest) runs out in 35 years, you are left with VGC, OKW extended, Bay Lake, VGF, and Copper Creek. Poly, unlike Copper Creek, has hundreds of studios and relatively few bungalows. So, I'm not sure what fight they are imagining that Poly isn't well positioned for.

Or hey, sell in 25 years and you're good. Still better than locking into that garbage RIV chart and resale restrictions.
 
When SSR (the biggest) runs out in 35 years, you are left with VGC, OKW extended, Bay Lake, VGF, and Copper Creek. Poly, unlike Copper Creek, has hundreds of studios and relatively few bungalows. So, I'm not sure what fight they are imagining that Poly isn't well positioned for.

Or hey, sell in 25 years and you're good. Still better than locking into that garbage RIV chart and resale restrictions.
Thanks! It will interesting to see what happens with everything. My current plan is to sell poly when I retire (<20yrs) for a resort like saratoga springs for longer stays but if I have to keep poly I'm cool with that too :)
 
Another question though - when Disney eventually uses ROFR to obtain RIV resale, when they then sell it will it be subjected to resale restrictions? Or would people get direct benefits from the resale contract?
 
Can someone please explain exactly what it is about the resale restrictions that is scaring you off?

Is it the fact that if you decide to sell 10, 20, 30 years from now, that you will not fetch as high as a resale price per point? I'm interested in this because I have seen Riviera resale advertised for approximately $140 per point. This is about a $55 price different from direct. This is almost on par with every other resort. The difference is between $50-70 let's say. Do you think that 20 years from now, the price difference for Riviera will plunge far ahead of the other resorts and this is why this scares you?

Or is it because 10, 20, 30 years that half of the contracts will be resale, therefore booking at 11 months will be tougher because Riviera owners will not be holding out for the 7 month window to book something else. Therefore, theoretically, the percentage of rooms booked at Riviera between 11-7 months will be higher than at other resorts? Is this the issue? But how does this compare to other resorts like VGF that currently have the same problem?

Or is it something else? I'm just trying to grasp the actual tangible reasons as opposed to the generic "resale restrictions" statement.

Thanks
Resale restrictions wouldn't scare me off if it was a place i wanted to stay at. The reason I would never buy there is the mainly the point charts then the maintenance fees.
 
Another question though - when Disney eventually uses ROFR to obtain RIV resale, when they then sell it will it be subjected to resale restrictions? Or would people get direct benefits from the resale contract?
When you buy from Disney, the points are always considered "direct" and qualify for the perks and discounts that go with direct points. Doesn't matter when or where Disney obtained them.
 

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