RIP Kate Spade

[AustinTink]

So, the press is hounding her husband. He and Kate were together 35 years. He needs to be left alone to grieve. Today, he wore a mask (a cartoon mouse) to try to avoid the paparazzi. I can't imagine where his mind is right now. The guilt (even unfounded) may become all-consuming.

 

[LSUmiss]

Can I ask a question? I do not know much about this but some of you seem to. Can a person commit suicide and not be mentally ill? Can they just be overwhelmed by their circumstances and feel hopeless? Or does that constitute mental illness?

Yes & sometimes it can be personality issues like personality disorders that are arguably not mental illness in the way that’s traditionally thought of.

 

[kandb]

This is a prime example of how much misinformation and misunderstanding is still out there... Which is exactly why the stigma still exists.

What information??? There is a lot of help. You don't agree with that statement??? What did I say the is misinformation???

 

[kandb]

Would you say the same to someone who was diagnosed with cancer? Well, you should have gotten treatment before you knew about it..

Would I say what??? All I am saying there is a lot of help out there. If you have a physical or mental illness you must seek help. Sorry, that is reality.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Would I say what??? All I am saying there is a lot of help out there. If you have a physical or mental illness you must seek help. Sorry, that is reality.

Her point is sometimes your brain doesn't realize it is ill before it is too late, or even at all.

Your "reality" is callous and shows you lack understanding in the struggles people with mental illness face.

 

[kimblebee]

Would I say what??? All I am saying there is a lot of help out there. If you have a physical or mental illness you must seek help. Sorry, that is reality.

Yes, there is help out there (oftentimes IF you can afford it.

The point I was making is how can someone get help when they don’t know they’re sick. That’s why I asked if you would blame someone for dying of cancer if they didn’t even know they had it.

I didn’t know I had cervical cancer until it was found through a procedure for something completely unrelated. Was it then my fault I had to have a hysterectomy because I didn’t get treatment earlier, when I had no idea?

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

What information??? There is a lot of help. You don't agree with that statement??? What did I say the is misinformation???

There IS help yes. That is... If you recognize you need it (many people don't know they are having problems and/or seem fine to others or just don't believe they do have any issues), if you can afford it, if you get it in time (seeing as how most mental health care is long term) etc...

Would I say what??? All I am saying there is a lot of help out there. If you have a physical or mental illness you must seek help. Sorry, that is reality.

Reality is it doesn't work that way in practice, only in theory.

Her point is sometimes your brain doesn't realize it is ill before it is too late, or even at all.

Your "reality" is callous and shows you lack understanding in the struggles people with mental illness face.

This.

 

[MickeyPretzels]

Your "reality" is callous and shows you lack understanding in the struggles people with mental illness face.

You find out a lot about other people's true natures by watching how they react to issues such as this one.

 

[lifesavacation]

Her point is sometimes your brain doesn't realize it is ill before it is too late, or even at all.

Your "reality" is callous and shows you lack understanding in the struggles people with mental illness face.

Try not to be too hard on the PP. Her POV isn’t uncommon and it’s really important that we try and foster understanding.

To the PP: My sister has a mental illness. Her primary symptom is paranoia. When she is at her sickest, her brain is telling her that doctors and nurses want to kill her. She won’t even leave her house because she thinks the birds are in on it too. She won’t listen to her family either because we too want her dead. She is not capable in that frame of mind to recognize that 1) she is really really sick and 2) to get help from the people she believes want to kill her.

You are thinking like a person without a mental illness about getting help. My dad sometimes does that too. I just have to keep repeating that my sister’s brain has a different reality from ours and it’s as real to her as ours is to us.

 

[MamaBelle4]

Try not to be too hard on the PP. Her POV isn’t uncommon and it’s really important that we try and foster understanding.

I genuinely wasn't trying to be too hard on PP.

 

[Disneylover99]

You find out a lot about other people's true natures by watching how they react to issues such as this one.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Times have changed and there is so much more understanding about mental health issues these days. But despite that, the whys of suicide can be hard to wrap your head around if you’re not dealing with friends/family members who suffer from depression.

 

[cabanafrau]

Our brains and psyches are so complex and there is so much not understood. Something I've not really seen discussed is that often even those seeking treatment may suddenly become resistant to following through with the treatment after a certain point. Sometimes it seems there's an element of illness that drives an instinct to actually protect the illness, causing people to begin to tailor treatment themselves, seemingly cooperating with X, limiting Y to whatever restrictions they insist are appropriate and completely rejecting any value to Z. Oftentimes this goes unnoticed for a period of time and then everything comes crashing down because the minimally ineffective treatment being cooperated with won't sustain someone long-term who needs the problem addressed comprehensively. Many times family and friends become exhausted, heartbroken and/or mistreated or abused and eventually have to back off. So sad for all involved.

 

[bellebud]

also, and this is the most obvious to me... depression can be soooooo... depressing... so much so that you don't have the mental energy to pick up the phone, find out who your insurance covers, call for an appointment, go to the appointment which may be weeks later... for a depressed person, things like this can feel like an impossible task.

 

[lisaviolet]

You find out a lot about other people's true natures by watching how they react to issues such as this one.

I don't think that is necessarily true.

People are complex. I won't go back over some issues in my family. But
I can tell you that the people who couldn't fully understand, and were harsh at times with their thoughts, were also loving people.

And sometimes people grow up in an environment that doesn't foster complete understanding - and being open to it, just a get on with life and do what needs to be done approach.

 

[lisaviolet]

You are thinking like a person without a mental illness about getting help. My dad sometimes does that too. I just have to keep repeating that my sister’s brain has a different reality from ours and it’s as real to her as ours is to us.

Just highlighting. Important to understand, helps to understand.

And .

 

[LSUmiss]

I don't think that is necessarily true.

People are complex. I won't go back over some issues in my family. But
I can tell you that the people who couldn't fully understand, and were harsh at times with their thoughts, were also loving people.

And sometimes people grow up in an environment that doesn't foster complete understanding - and being open to it, just a get on with life and do what needs to be done approach.

And like I mentioned earlier there are times that ppl have personality issues like personality disorders & use self-harm & threats of self-harm to manipulate others so sometimes those experiences color how ppl view these things. I am a mental health professional & have seen both cases & those in between so I can distinguish the difference for the most part, but other ppl might view these things based on their experiences. It’s not always just b/c of the stigma.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The sad part is that there IS a lot of help these days for depression/anxiety. No one should feel stigmatized by having a mental illness. It can happen to anyone. She lived in NYC, which has some of the best hospitals. Very, very sad.

I know others have touched on it but I don't see the connection with the NYC-best hospital part.

Treatment is never guaranteed to work for anyone. People fly from all over to go to places like the Mayo Clinics, Cancer Treatment Centers of America, etc, etc and they still die or suffer, or live with, etc.

I do understand if you're thinking resources available to someone but to phrase it like you did just makes it sound like "if only she had tried harder, she had the tools, etc" which..comes off wrong in my mind and perhaps that wasn't your intent.

 

[lisaviolet]

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Times have changed and there is so much more understanding about mental health issues these days. But despite that, the whys of suicide can be hard to wrap your head around if you’re not dealing with friends/family members who suffer from depression.

And not just whether you deal with it Disneylover99, because many understand when they have no friends/family suffering from it. I certainly understood before my family member became ill.

But having it on your doorstep can make things clearer for some.

I find that every friend or family member that struggles to understand just happens to be more of a black and white thinker, struggles to see the in between in life. Also, the kind of person who might lean more to a soldier on in life outlook (which is the worst way of thinking around/for those with depression/suicidal tendencies). My own mother was very much like that. Loving as can be, but struggled more to understand.

Just an observation, obviously not everyone.

 

[Disneylover99]

And not just whether you deal with it Disneylover99, because many understand when they have no friends/family suffering from it. I certainly understood before my family member became ill.

I find that every friend or family member that struggles to understand just happens to be more of a black and white thinker, struggles to see the in between in life. Also, the kind of person who might lean more to soldier on in life outlook in general (which is the worse way of thinking around depression/suicidal tendencies). My own mother was very much like that. Loving as can be, but struggled more to understand.

Just an observation, obviously not everyone.

I didn’t mean to suggest that you don’t/won’t understand if you aren’t living it with someone.
For sure many people do.

I’m been thinking about my own bias too. 25/30 years ago, I would have considered suicide to be a selfish act. Many of the people I know would have felt this way as well back then. But knowing what I know today, it’s amazing to realize how far we’ve come.

 

[lisaviolet]

I didn’t mean to suggest that you don’t/won’t understand if you aren’t living it with someone.
For sure many people do.

I’m been thinking about my own bias too. 25/30 years ago, I would have considered suicide to be a selfish act. Many of the people I know would have felt this way as well back then. But knowing what I know today, it’s amazing to realize how far we’ve come.

I knew what you meant in your original post. What you were trying to put out. I am probably not communicating very well.

EDIT : @Disneylover99 - I was waiting to see a movie earlier and was trying to say a little more, but my phone was just not into it! Wanted to whip it as it took me five minutes to type three damn sentences back to you.

I know we both wanted to convey that it's not clear cut when people do not fully understand.