Revelations

[hiwaygal]

I think I learned more and understood more about the Bible prophecies (not just the book of Revelation in particular) from reading the "Left Behind" Series...some of the best reading I've done in a LOOOOONG time...

 

[hokiefan33]

You're right! Rev 1:3 says there is a blessing for those who read it and those who listen! (And I need all the blessing I can get!)

There is also promise of a blessing in the last chapter of Revelation, as well. It is the only book in the Bible that promises a blessing to the reader in the first and last of the book.
It is "Revelation", and not "Revelations", b/c it refers to the "revelation" of Jesus Christ, not necessarily the "revelation" of the end times, though I do think it does that, as well.

I am actually teaching a Bible study on this right now. Revelation is one of those books where you either need to just do it like a chapter per study, or take about a year to do it. It's hard to do an in-between study of it, you either need to skim it or do it real in-depth, in my opinion.

I do believe it gives a picture of both the Rapture and the 2nd Coming (2 separate events, in fact, not the same). I don't believe, obviously, that the Rapture has occurred, as I hold a pre-tribulational view of the Rapture (it will happen before the Tribulation period). I believe the Trib. period is a literal 7 years, I believe it will largely be centered in Israel and the Middle East (in fact, much of it in or close to Iraq, near the Tigris and Euphrates rivers). I believe the Antichrist (though that particular word is indeed NOT mentioned in Revelation, but in 1 John) will arise out of a European nation, will establish a peace treaty with Israel, I believe the temple will be rebuilt, and then desecrated. And I believe all the terrible things that Revelation speaks about WILL happen. Why? Because it is prophesied throughout the Bible. Read Ezekiel, Joel, Daniel, Malachi, Zephaniah, etc... it's all throughout there. Not to mention Matthew, Acts, 1 Corinthians, 2 Thessalonians and a host of other places in the Bible.

I believe the Rapture will be in secret (we don't see Him on Earth, but meet Him in the air), but the 2nd Coming will be visible for all. And I believe that all those who have denied His existence or that He will judge will one day confess Him as Lord, though it will be too late. I think that is pretty clear throughout the Bible.

It is a very interesting book, to say the least. And parallels very closely with Daniel, kind of like the OT version of Revelation.

 

[scubamouse]

I'm Christian and I don't believe we are in the end times. I guess I look at the fact that Christians have been waiting since 1 C.E for Jesus to return. What have we done to deserve his return?

I believe Christianity is A path to God not THE path to God. Until we all stop fighting eachother and killing in the name of God (whatever anyone calls Him), I don't think he's coming back to save us.

 

[manchurianbrownbear]

I have no idea. I know a lot people in my church would say “yes”, based on many things happening in the world today, but the Bible also says that Jesus will return “as a thief in the night”, so if everyone is convinced His return is imminent, it’s probably not!

There are dozens of Old Testament prophecies that were fulfilled in ways that those who studied them did not expect. How about Jesus’ disciples being completely surprised that He was the sacrifice for our sin, and completely misunderstanding Jesus’ role as “King”. And these men were as close to Jesus as anyone on earth!

 

[ead79]

I honestly can’t say whether or not I think the end times are near. As several other posters have pointed out, I believe as the Bible says that no one knows the day or the hour of His return. I also believe that there have been several “warning signs” given to us to be on the lookout (increased natural disasters, wars and rumors of wars, increased false teaching), but I believe it could still be years and years after we see these things before the return of Christ.

I very much enjoyed reading the Left Behind series. They used fictional characters, which I think made the events easier to understand. However, I know that the authors were very careful to stick to the Scriptures as well. They take a pre-tribulation view of the rapture, which I share.

 

[DawnCt1]

I think I learned more and understood more about the Bible prophecies (not just the book of Revelation in particular) from reading the "Left Behind" Series...some of the best reading I've done in a LOOOOONG time...

I agree. The series wasn't particularly well written but I felt that they were true to Biblical prophecy. I think that there could have been fewer books to get to the end but it put them in a contemporary context so that we can really imagine how it will all take place, down to the details. Of course, we know that it could happen under a different scenario and that particular one was fictional BUT the message and the ending will still be the same.

 

[Buckalew11]

I honestly can’t say whether or not I think the end times are near. As several other posters have pointed out, I believe as the Bible says that no one knows the day or the hour of His return. I also believe that there have been several “warning signs” given to us to be on the lookout (increased natural disasters, wars and rumors of wars, increased false teaching), but I believe it could still be years and years after we see these things before the return of Christ.

I very much enjoyed reading the Left Behind series. They used fictional characters, which I think made the events easier to understand. However, I know that the authors were very careful to stick to the Scriptures as well. They take a pre-tribulation view of the rapture, which I share.

I agree. I do go as far to say I believe we are living in the end times because I believe the end times started after the ascention of Christ. I believe we have lived in the last days all this time. I believe we live in the "age of grace" and that the end of this age will come and the Holy Spirit will leave us. I hope to not be here when that happens as I think the world would be very scary without the Holy Spirit always here (scary enough with satan ruling here now).

I believe that no one will know when the rapture will take place (which I believe will happen before the second coming also) but I do believe we are to watch and be aware as we are giving warnings and things to be aware of in the Bible. I do believe things are being set up for so much of it to actually happen. The faith in our countries leaders comes to mind right off the bat for me.

We did an intense study of revelation several years back that took a little over 1 1/2 years to complete. It was extremely intense and took us ALL over the Bible (Old and New Testaments). It surely isn't a book that is easily understood.

 

[DawnCt1]

I think that since the establishment of Israel, events have accelerated. That is a "requirement". I also think that this is a really, really big world, yet, on a daily basis and for years, our attention has been focused on the Middle East. That is no accident.

 

[FionaLovesShrek]

First, I believe in reading the Word of God. Revelation is not plural to begin with. Revelation also does not mean rapture or end time events. It means, "to reveal". The first verse begins by saying that it is a revelation of Jesus Christ. Also in verse 1 we are told it was signified, meaning it is pictures of spiritual truths. There is no way we can read it and understand it without God opening our understanding into the Scriptures. Does the Bible not also say, Lean not into your own understanding? Eph. 1:17-23 is a prayer asking for a spirit of wisdom and revelation. I believe in praying the Scriptures. We may never know all the hidden treasures in the Word of God in our lifetime, but one thing is clear, the Scriptures all point to Christ. Yes, He was even written about in the old testament. Isaiah 53 is speaking of Christ and the cross. There is no sense in debates about Revelation, for those who truly seek to understand, prayer and seeking Him is the key to having your eyes enlightened. Is is awesome to be able to open my Bible and just ask Him to give a glimpse into Himself!

 

[Buckalew11]

I agree, Dawn. Israel and the Middle East play a major role in *end times* yet, we, as Americans still sometimes think it all revolves around us. Of course, wasn't Jesus a full blooded white American??! (Sorry, couldn't resist that!)

 

[Epcot83]

I'm Christian and I don't believe we are in the end times. I guess I look at the fact that Christians have been waiting since 1 C.E for Jesus to return. What have we done to deserve his return?

I believe Christianity is A path to God not THE path to God. Until we all stop fighting eachother and killing in the name of God (whatever anyone calls Him), I don't think he's coming back to save us.

You're right, it says n the last chapter "I am comoing soon with out notice" so when we least expect it that's when he'll come. I kind of think that means that everything is going to be calm again, no fighting between countries, that sort of stuff. We're far from it being calm, so I think it'll be a while until he comes back. Bu then again, you never know.

 

[DawnCt1]

I kind of think that means that everything is going to be calm again, no fighting between countries, that sort of stuff. We'rer far from its being calm, so I think it'll be a while until he comes back.

Not necessarily!

 

[Rella Bella]

To get back to the OP's question;
the End Times are coming... the Bible says soon...
and honestly for anyone of us the End could be today!
So whether or not it is the End Times...
we'd better be prepared for them now.

I think I learned more and understood more about the Bible prophecies (not just the book of Revelation in particular) from reading the "Left Behind" Series...some of the best reading I've done in a LOOOOONG time...

Excuse me, but isn't the 'Left Behind' Series a work of fiction!!! How can you learn the Bible from fiction... it's just the author(s) opinion of Bible prophecy. Are you comfortable resting your faith on opinion?

Now just to enliven our discussion:
since so many of you have mentioned the 'Rapture'. I'm sure you all know the word is not mentioned in the Bible... and even to get the concept of it you have to stretch the meaning of certain Bible passages. But did you know the whole concept of a 'Rapture' was never heard of in any part of the church until a woman named Mary McDonald in England gave a prophecy that included the idea... this happend somewhere around the 1850's. Before that everyone (some still do) believed that Christ's return would be just that 'Christ's Return'. So I guess it depends on how much faith you have in prophecy doesn't it??

"Talk amongst yourselves"

 

[hokiefan33]

To get back to the OP's question;
the End Times are coming... the Bible says soon...
and honestly for anyone of us the End could be today!
So whether or not it is the End Times...
we'd better be prepared for them now.


Excuse me, but isn't the 'Left Behind' Series a work of fiction!!! How can you learn the Bible from fiction... it's just the author(s) opinion of Bible prophecy. Are you comfortable resting your faith on opinion?

Now just to enliven our discussion:
since so many of you have mentioned the 'Rapture'. I'm sure you all know the word is not mentioned in the Bible... and even to get the concept of it you have to stretch the meaning of certain Bible passages. But did you know the whole concept of a 'Rapture' was never heard of in any part of the church until a woman named Mary McDonald in England gave a prophecy that included the idea... this happend somewhere around the 1850's. Before that everyone (some still do) believed that Christ's return would be just that 'Christ's Return'. So I guess it depends on how much faith you have in prophecy doesn't it??

"Talk amongst yourselves"

The Latin word "rapiere" from which we derive the word "rapture" does appear in early Latin manuscripts of the Bible. It is just not the word commonly used in our English versions. I think the Bible speaks very clearly (especially in Revelation) of 2 separate "comings" of Christ - one to gather His people (the Rapture, which could happen at anytime) and His 2nd Coming, when He will return WITH His people to judge the earth.

 

[ead79]

Excuse me, but isn't the 'Left Behind' Series a work of fiction!!! How can you learn the Bible from fiction... it's just the author(s) opinion of Bible prophecy. Are you comfortable resting your faith on opinion?

Now just to enliven our discussion:
since so many of you have mentioned the 'Rapture'. I'm sure you all know the word is not mentioned in the Bible... and even to get the concept of it you have to stretch the meaning of certain Bible passages. But did you know the whole concept of a 'Rapture' was never heard of in any part of the church until a woman named Mary McDonald in England gave a prophecy that included the idea... this happend somewhere around the 1850's. Before that everyone (some still do) believed that Christ's return would be just that 'Christ's Return'. So I guess it depends on how much faith you have in prophecy doesn't it??

"Talk amongst yourselves"

Yes, the Left Behind series books are works of fiction. However, the authors relied on extensive research from Biblical scholars to try to write about the events in a way that is in line with Scripture. The books have helped me understand a view of Revelations that is in line with the majority of fundamentalist Biblical scholars. That’s not placing my faith in a work of fiction, but rather using characters to help make the prophecies easier to understand, especially in terms of a timeline. No need to attack people for reading a series of books.

As far as the idea of the Rapture, the concept is referred to in Revelation. Whether or not the exact term rapture is used or not, there are verses that speak of both Christ’s second return and of Christ gathering His children to Himself.

 

[jimmiej]

I am a pre-milleniast (wasn't real sure how to spell that). Anyways, I believe born-again Christians will be raptured first, then the tribulation, 1000-year reign, Armageddon (sp?), Satan defeated & cast into the lake of fire, eternity...

It's impossible to know how close we are to the end times, although there are some signs it could be soon (God's soon, not ours ).

Luke 21

Signs of the End of the Age

*5Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6"As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down."

*7"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"

*8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."

*10Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

*12"But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you. They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13This will result in your being witnesses to them. 14But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17All men will hate you because of me. 18But not a hair of your head will perish. 19By standing firm you will gain life.

*20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

*25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

I believe Christianity is A path to God not THE path to God. Until we all stop fighting eachother and killing in the name of God (whatever anyone calls Him), I don't think he's coming back to save us.

Interesting...

As a Christian, how would you deal with:

John 14

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't believe we'll ever stop fighting until Jesus defeats Satan and we have a "new heaven & a new earth." Just MO.

 

[DawnCt1]

John 14

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I don't believe we'll ever stop fighting until Jesus defeats Satan and we have a "new heaven & a new earth." Just MO.

That's the way I see it. Fortunately we are in the age of Grace that everyone has the opportunity to avail themselves of.

 

[hiwaygal]

Yes, the Left Behind series books are works of fiction. However, the authors relied on extensive research from Biblical scholars to try to write about the events in a way that is in line with Scripture. The books have helped me understand a view of Revelations that is in line with the majority of fundamentalist Biblical scholars. That’s not placing my faith in a work of fiction, but rather using characters to help make the prophecies easier to understand, especially in terms of a timeline. No need to attack people for reading a series of books.

Thanks for the support Elisabeth.

And to this:

Excuse me, but isn't the 'Left Behind' Series a work of fiction!!! How can you learn the Bible from fiction... it's just the author(s) opinion of Bible prophecy. Are you comfortable resting your faith on opinion?

If I said what I REALLY thought, I would probably be ROYALLY flamed!

Suffice to say that I have a hard time reading the KJV of the Bible and the way it's written (old style English, translated from Hebrew, I think), the "Left Behind" series put the prophecies of the Bible (as quoted from the KJV) into a scenario I (and apparently millions of others) could better understand.

I guess my question to you, Rella, is who are you to judge HOW I come to believe or understand the Bible and G-d? Wouldn't the more Christian thing be to applaud the reality that something, anything, brought me closer to G-d??

 

[Rella Bella]

If I said what I REALLY thought, I would probably be ROYALLY flamed!

Suffice to say that I have a hard time reading the KJV of the Bible and the way it's written (old style English, translated from Hebrew, I think), the "Left Behind" series put the prophecies of the Bible (as quoted from the KJV) into a scenario I (and apparently millions of others) could better understand.

I guess my question to you, Rella, is who are you to judge HOW I come to believe or understand the Bible and G-d? Wouldn't the more Christian thing be to applaud the reality that something, anything, brought me closer to G-d??

Okay, okay... I'm sorry! I was trying to start a discussion NOT a war! My intention was not to attack you, I appologize that it came across that way. I guess I just don't understand... that's why I asked the question. I wasn't judging... I was asking!

If these books brought you closer to God that's wonderful! The point of my question was more why this one opinion would be a stopping point for your understanding of Revelation.

But of course when I went back & looked you didn't say that... you just said you had learned a lot. So I'm glad you learned a lot, and I'll read more carefully before I post. I guess my asumption was 'how much truth could there be in a work of fiction'. There are SO many opinions in this arena. But in truth, that's up to every reader to decide for himself.

I wish we could give each other the benefit of the doubt that we are really trying to exchange ideas and not jump on the idea that a posting is a personal attack... but I will be more careful with my wording next time.

 

[RoyalCanadian]

It is "Revelation", and not "Revelations", b/c it refers to the "revelation" of Jesus Christ, not necessarily the "revelation" of the end times, though I do think it does that, as well.

The word "Revelation" isn't about the revealing of Jesus Christ. Christ was revealed through the incarnation at his birth.

The title is more properly "The Revelation of John" -- that is, the revelation the apostle John received about the Apocalypse (FYI -- the Greek word for "Apocalypse" just happens to be the Greek title of the book.)

As to trying to understand it -- why? I prefer to enjoy and celebrate God's mystery instead of pretending it's all black and white.