Rental Rates/Concerns

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Originally posted by idratherbeinwdw
Wait a minute, isn't that why we were discussing ethics a few posts back? The objections for the most part in this thread have not been regarding what is legal and technical, but rather what is right and wrong.

Maybe no official rules are broken when people rent out highly desirable times for the sole intention of auctioning them on a regular basis, but that doesn't make it right.

And I am pretty sure those abusing the system know darn well that they are doing something underhanded, but justify it by saying "I am not breaking any rules". I repeat what I said in an earlier post--Just because you aren't doing something illegal it doesn't mean you're a good person. It just means you aren't a criminal.
The point was they are two different things which some people have trouble separating, IMO. One question is what's legal and within the rules. A totally different question is what one likes/approves of. In saying it a different way, it appears you agree with my premise. While we agree on the principle that someone can do something wrong and it still be "legal", we apparently disagree on how this applies to renting. While there may be things I wouldn't feel comfortable doing, there is nothing I can think of that I'd truly consider wrong but within the rules when it comes to renting. Even repeatedly renting Xmas/Easter. The exception would be a reservation not available to all members at that resort like a lottery or special season preference list. And so to be clear, I only include members who own at THAT resort as applicable.
 
Originally posted by Dean
You will of course.
:sad2:
Originally posted by mickeymouse710
ITA.
Originally posted by Robert P
Desperado,

You have said it very well. I agree completely.

Robert P
Originally posted by idratherbeinwdw
I concur wholeheartedly with the last three posters. There is an auction on EBay right now which has as the Headline "Boardwalk Timeshare--Easter". The auction came out 11 months in advance, so you know it's not someone who made a ressie and had a change of plans. And it's for 5 nights at BWV, in a studio with a guaranteed Boardwalk view--price is $2000!! The points needed for this are 95. This is the kind of thing I (and evidently many others here on the DIS Boards) object to.
Thank you and well said.
 
wow....that BWV rental would be $21 a point

nice if they can get it....what an entrepreneur!!


:(
 

Originally posted by idratherbeinwdw
Wait a minute, isn't that why we were discussing ethics a few posts back? The objections for the most part in this thread have not been regarding what is legal and technical, but rather what is right and wrong.

Maybe no official rules are broken when people rent out highly desirable times for the sole intention of auctioning them on a regular basis, but that doesn't make it right.

And I am pretty sure those abusing the system know darn well that they are doing something underhanded, but justify it by saying "I am not breaking any rules". I repeat what I said in an earlier post--Just because you aren't doing something illegal it doesn't mean you're a good person. It just means you aren't a criminal.

ITA

I see this issue as being right in line with wearing spandex.

Just because you CAN, doesn't always mean you SHOULD!
 
"I'd use the current value because I could sell it at that if I were doing this as an investment. Anyone with a liquid investment should compare to what they could get out for, not just what they paid for it. That's why I'd use the higher of price paid or current value. When calculating return, one would need to compare to the "investment" in a each point, not to the price obtained. The price charged of each point would have to be looked at as dues, return of principle, "profit" plus any other expenses of which there are many possibilities many of which I've noted but I'm sure there are others. $3 is a 4.5% return on a value of $68 pp, even if you used $50 pp as the basis, it's only a 6% return."

I see where you are determining that number but disagree with your basis for the calculation.


"I certainly haven't seen that. While I do know some of them at times rent for more than $10 pp, I don't think that's at all consistent in spite of what they say. And when they do, they tend to have additional expenses like ebay selling fees, square deal certification fees, paypal fees in addition to the myriad of possible expenses we've already talked about. As I invited previously, I'd love to see a breakdown of numbers that would suggest a return of 10% consistently net of ALL fees and expenses."

One commercial renter bragged about it Dean which I thought was pretty tacky.


"That's not what I said and you know it. What I said was there are other possible expenses and risks that could offset any "profits" and would need to be taken into account for anyone wanting to rent DVC as a business. And these include the risk of losing points for one reason or another, not only a real riks but a likely riks for a "commercial renter". And it's also possible one would end up getting to rent points two times, this would be less likely but still could be considered."

Yes but using that particular one was pretty much a red herring.


"At this point, I'm trying to figure out your contention other than you don't like renting. I don't really understand your overall position other than you want to argue with me, maybe I'm missing something."

Actually this go round started out because I disagreed with you about not having a significant tax bill from rentals. This last was not about renting as an activity.


I have to say though that I could never understand why you so vehemently defend the people who rent more than occasionally until I clicked on your Timeshare page.

Pretty interesting to see that your timeshare link consists only of ads for rent and sale of your timeshares with a picture or 2 thrown in.
 
"Just because you aren't doing something illegal it doesn't mean you're a good person. It just means you aren't a criminal."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, I looked up "BAD" person (not good) and there it was:

(Pronunciation Key)bad1 Listen: [ bd ]
adj. worse [ wûrs ], worst [ wûrst ]

Not achieving an adequate standard; poor: a bad concert.

Evil; sinful: DVC OWNER THAT RENTS POINTS DURING HOLIDAYS.

Vulgar or obscene: bad language.

Informal Disobedient or naughty: bad children.

Disagreeable, unpleasant, or disturbing: a bad piece of news.

Unfavorable: bad reviews for the play.

Not fresh; rotten or spoiled: bad meat.

Injurious in effect; detrimental: bad habits.

Not working properly; defective: a bad telephone connection.

Full of or exhibiting faults or errors: bad grammar.

Having no validity; void: passed bad checks.

Being so far behind in repayment as to be considered a loss: bad loans.

Severe; intense: a bad cold.
 
I have to say though that I could never understand why you so vehemently defend the people who rent more than occasionally until I clicked on your Timeshare page.

Pretty interesting to see that your timeshare link consists only of ads for rent and sale of your timeshares with a picture or 2 thrown in.
What I defend is what the rules, my knowledge of the laws and reason tell me. This board needs a dose or reality at times, it seems not many are willing to post in that vein on this subject. It seems to be all about what FEELS right and wrong to many. I don't know or care about the frequent renters. It is none of my business. I am amazed that others have the gaul to tell someone else what they can do with their points when it is within the rules and laws of the state. It simply amazes me and is somewhat socialistic in my book.

I rent occasionally, on average about 1 DVC rental per year. Timeshares are my hobby, my wife calls it an obcession. I have decided to buy what I want to use and rent them the rest of the time rather than trying to co much exchanging. I usually go to DVC every year and HH EOY but with 2-3 units. Generally about EOY, we invite family and I cover the unit expensies like three 2 BR units at Marriott's Grande Ocean last 4th of July for a week, oceanfront. When is the last time you saw me post on the rent/trade board inviting a rental? Not that it has any bearing on the merits of this discussion anyway.
 
Does the OP win a prize if the thread is viewed 20,000 times or the post count reaches 400 ?
 
Originally posted by ripleysmom
[B....I have to say though that I could never understand why you so vehemently defend the people who rent more than occasionally until I clicked on your Timeshare page.

Pretty interesting to see that your timeshare link consists only of ads for rent and sale of your timeshares with a picture or 2 thrown in. [/B]
Interesting, I hadn't visited the site until you mentioned it.

Good one, jade1. :tilt:
 
And it's for 5 nights at BWV, in a studio with a guaranteed Boardwalk view--price is $2000!!

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the price would be through CRO? How's that much of a deal?
 
Curious...are those of you attempting to rent points at $12 a point getting any takers or do you have to reduce your price?? $10 a point still seems to be the norm.
 
Originally posted by fkj2
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what the price would be through CRO? How's that much of a deal?
Around $2500 with no guarantee of a BW view.
 
I just posted my points for rent yesterday and have already had several interested people email me. In my opinion, $10.00 per point is too low. I don't HAVE to rent my points as they are for Oct 2004 and 2005 UY but I am hoping to use the cash and cruise instead of going to WDW for our next vacation. If I'm not able to sell them for $12.00 per point which I think is fair market value compared to just booking through Disney CRO, then I will just keep them and either add an extra vacation or bank them and have a blowout vacation in the next couple of years ;). Just my 2 cents though.

Kim
 
It can and does happen. Especially if you are a patient renter and rent points out early.

Disney charges approximately $19-20/pt for the same accomodations. $10 is to low and has been the going rate for at least the past 4 years. Point price should at least go up with the inflation rate. Many trade points to do other Disney vacation options, like the cruise. Therefore, if they get a better rate than what Disney gives them for their points, they feel they are getting a good value...which really isn't the case as the point cost has skyrocketed over the same time frame.

BTW, Disney rack rates went up 5% in just one year.
 
I rented our excess 2004 points at $11.00 per point. Price was firm on all rentals and renters couldn't be happier with their experience. I ran out of excess points and had to turn renters away. I EASILY could have rented thousands more points at that price.

I recently set the price for our excess 2005 points at $12.00. The price is firm for new renters. Prevoius renters who I know and trust will get a discount. I'm absolutely certain I'll have to turn renters away again. We'll continue to rent our excess points for the next few years until we use all of our points ourselves for extended stays at OKW. I have every intention of adjusting the price upward as supply and demand dictate/allows.

The combination of Pete Werner providing the Rent/Trade board for classified ads and DVC allowing me to rent our excess points affords me incredible flexibility. I couldn't be more pleased. Thanks Pete...thanks DVC.
 
To the folks that have rented out at $11 or $12 a point -- has anyone given you a hard time about the price? I don't mean just asking if you will rent for less, but criticizing you personally?

I'm buying a BWV resale and would like to rent out some of my initial points to help cover some of the purchase price. But, I'm worried that people will get mad at me if I ask more than $10 a point!

On a related subject, I find it strange that the asking price for points doesn't seem to depend on the home resort or the points expiration date. OKW points rent for the same as BWV, BCV, or VWL points, even though OKW owners pay about 60 cents less per point in dues. I'd expect points that have more than 11 months until expiration to command a premium, since some rooms types and dates are impossible to get without the 11 month window. Yet, points that expire a year from now seem to go for the same price as points that expire four or five months from now.
 
Point price should at least go up with the inflation rate
If one were to say Hotel inflation rate then I would agree. For points rental I have always believed that the readily available rate for the value resorts ( All Star) was a much more useful tool for gauging the "fair price" for DVC points and this hasn't really moved much. The rack rate is a useful guide, but with the readily available heavy discounts over the last years it's not a nailed on one.

It does seem that those difficult periods are coming to and end and that the hotels are getting a much better occupancy rate. I would expect that the discounts are going to be less available and not as aggressive in the future and because of that I do expect prices ( of hotels and points) to push up in the near future.
 
I don't rent out points but in my opinion you all are renting them for too low a price. You should take the rack cash price for the unit and divide it by the amount of points needed. Then knock it down a few dollars if you wish. At 10 to 12 dollars a point, why be a member, you can rent points at a give away price. Let us remember that these units run from $295 a night up to $1500 a night for the regular season.
 
I will ask for >$10 a point if renting out beyond the 7 month window at BWV. 11 month priority at BWV is a very desirable commodity, and if renters don't want them at that price (unlikely) then I'll just keep them. That being said, I did rent out a few of this year's points beyond the 7 month window at $10 per point, but I chose to give them a break.

On the other hand, points that will expire soon I would expect to see at $10 (or less if close to expiry).

Of course, any price that both owner and renter are happy with is a fair price.
 
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