Rental Rates/Concerns

[poj7]

Originally posted by Jen D
This widely held belief that someone who had the wherewithal to slap down their 10% downpayment is innately more likely to be good and honest is pretty ridiculous.

Much where we're getting the oft-repeated belief that renters and cash customers are more likely to be responsible for theft and damage.

Gail, I'm sorry to jump on you, but I see that assertion a lot without anything, anything, anything to back it up other than wishful thinking.

While there is no SCIENTIFIC evidence to support people who have no vested interest in a property caring less for it, those of us who have rented vacation homes certainly can attest that as a general rule, renters certainly don't care for things as well as owners.

That said, our contract allows us to rent. It's unfortunate but that's what the contract says. I don't see how we can realistically change it. I do believe that the "spirit" of the DVC concept is for the units to be used by members with occassional renting and not for the units to be rented out repeatedly with the intention of making money.

Paul

 

[ncligs]

This thread is starting to get "good"....who needs the Debate Board.

 

[addie]

I guess I am the guilty one that started this whole thread with my question about renting points here is my 2 cents.

1) I don't understand why some of you think that because my family is renting points we have climbed out of the bottom of the gutter, cannot be trusted, and are not worthy to have the same privileges the rest of you have. Renting points I believe is a good deal, but we will be paying for those points.

2) Why we are not DVC members…… My husband and I are relatively young, and my husband is in school getting his MBA. We have one two year old, and just don’t have the $15,000 to drop into a timeshare this year, and refuse to go into debt for it. So far we have saved $6,000 for our DVC membership, so in the next two years you will see this “renter” become a member anyway. Before making that investment, my husband feels better about renting some points and staying there first before we sign on the dotted line.

3) When I become an owner I will absolutely rent out my points when I am unable to use them. This is how free enterprise works.

4) The issue of people getting mad at those that are charging $11 a point to make money off renters is ridicules. At $11 a point I don’t think anyone is really "making" money here. I am however willing to pay a premium for someone that has enough point to make my reservations work. I don’t work for free and I don’t expect the person I am renting from to take their time to make calls and set up my reservations without getting compensated somehow. At $11 a point I feel I am getting a great deal.

5) Because this kind person is allowing us to rent points, we will be able to provide a much deserved vacation to some family members who have had A LOT of hardships this past year, and need a little cheering up. They have never had the opportunity to visit WDW and we are grateful we can provide that opportunity. Because we are paying all of the expenses for 6 adults and 3 children including a 3 night cruise at the end of their stay, the only way we could afford it was with a villa.

Everyone has their reasons for renting points, and renting out their own points. I’m glad that DVC gives us the option to do what we want.

 

[KNWVIKING]

I don't care if a member books ten rooms with their points, even if at a later date they need to cancel one,some or all of them. If they reserved them with the INTENTION of using them, for friends,families or whoever- no problem,they have the right to do that. What does bother me, and I assume Rich, is that this renter booked two rooms with NO INTENTION of using both. Sure,the canceled room will go to someone on a waitlist, but being on a waitlist is nerveracking. Do you book airline flights hoping the list comes thru,are your vacation dates flexible with your employer, and so on. People like certainty in their lives.

I am not a renter and can't see myself ever being one, but I'm not opposed to others doing so when the need arises.I also feel people should rent full weeks,but we know that won't happen. I feel in this case the renter was inconsiderate to other members.

PS:Addie, I don't think anyone- at least I don't- have a problem with rentee's. You are simply someone looking for a good deal, which is what we all do.

 

[Regina]

I've never understood what difference it makes. The owner has the points to use, they make the reservation. Whether it's for them, a friend, family member or a renter, it's their points to use as they see fit.

And I strongly disagree with the assertion that renters/cash customers are the reason that certain items are no longer provided. I don't go along with the train of thought that an owner has a different perspective about the amenities than a non-owner.

Very little of the DVC resorts are booked through CRO/WDTC. First, there's usually very little available, and second, they're quite expensive compared to the conventional resorts.

That leaves the vast majority of rooms being used by members, with a small percentage of that being rented out.

I don't blame the renters for being insulted when it's implied that they're stealing from the units.

Sad to say, but with most of the bookings being used by members, logic will tell you that they were the ones who took home some "souvenirs."

 

[KLR-wlv]

Yes - doesn't each owner have X percentage of ownership to the resort they own? And the right to make whatever reservations they want - weekends excluded or not? And whether THEY use it or rent it or give it away - that is THEIR percentage of ownership? Since they are not taking any percentage of Richyams DVC ownership - or anyone else's - how on earth could it "hurt" any owner?

 

[JOC]

 

[KNWVIKING]

How ???

Lets see. I'm going to rent my points. In Advantage season I can book six,5 night, weekday studio trips. How easy is it going to be to for DVC to book just the open weekends-the high point weekends ? Maybe they go unused, which in the long run will increase dues. Or maybe a family can't get their week in because I got all the gravy days booked.

And like my previous thread stated, being on waitlist is no fun. It "hurts" me if I'm a nervouse wreck waiting for the rentee to decide which of the two reservations the renter is holding, to take.

There is always an affect.

 

[luckytso]

I will say that I rent points because I bought too many for our current needs (yes, it is possible to have too many points

The final decision for us to finally buy into DVC after 4 years is knowing the ability to rent out additional points when we won't use them. We don't want to feel forced to take WDW vacations just because we don't want to waste the points.

I feel the flexibility also supports the strong resale market demand for these points. I use the point rental to offset some of our vacation costs, and also I use it for other vacation spots. Like some other posters said, it is too expensive to exchange out. I always feel bad to see how little people get when trying to rent out their reservation points. I will definately rent out my points for my cruises and other destinations, without worring about cancellations (with young kids, you never know) and ending up with these points that I can't use.

I disagree with the weekday vs the weekend thing. Even as a member, I have a hard time justifying staying for the weekends, maybe time will help. The only trip that I am staying through the entire week is for my Xmas reunion trip because I don't want my family members to go through the trouble to move. So if I would only stay for weekdays, why should I expect my renters want to stay for the weekends. I always offer that as an option, but most people would choose to stay somewhere else.

As far as renting out rooms vs. reservations, I feel it is up to personal preference. I like to rent out reservations so that I have control of the timing of the reservation and the point requirements due to my point status and the use year. I make reservations in the same process as others.

Lastly, I don't feel I am profitting from renting. Everyone can determine how much their points are worth. However, I can't figure out at what point someone can profit from this. Does it have to offset your purchase price? That would take YEARS with the dues, time value of money and consistent renting.

We LOVE WDW and we will be vacationing there for many many years to come. I don't feel that I am doing anything bad from renting. Actually I rent my points to/from people and I truly enjoy the process and meeting people I otherwise would not have met.

I never thought that I would buy a timeshare and this may be the only one that I will ever own, because of the quality of its resorts and its flexibility.

I love this board and frequent it daily. I would hate to be viewed as doing something wrong

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
How ???

Lets see. I'm going to rent my points. In Advantage season I can book six,5 night, weekday studio trips. How easy is it going to be to for DVC to book just the open weekends-the high point weekends ? Maybe they go unused, which in the long run will increase dues.

As long as DVC members choose non-DVC options (except the exchanges), DVC must rent rooms to "pay" for that option. Since most non-DVC members (the general public) prefer weekend trips or trips that include at least one weekend, I doubt all that many of the rooms will go unused. CRO charges the same price for weeknights as it does for weekends, but I bet it rents out lots more trips that include weekends than it does for weeknights only. I think this is a win-win that supports the non-DVC options for those who choose them. I don't think DVD makes money on the non-DVC options.

Or maybe a family can't get their week in because I got all the gravy days booked.

Why didn't the family call at the 11 month window? They had the same opportunity to do that as the person who rented out the points had.

And like my previous thread stated, being on waitlist is no fun. It "hurts" me if I'm a nervouse wreck waiting for the rentee to decide which of the two reservations the renter is holding, to take.

There is always an affect.

Again, you have the option to use the 11 month window. I am one of those who would absolutely be a nervous wreck if I had to use the waitlist. That's why I use the 11 month window.

DVC reservations are based on availability and it's first come, first served. If I don't get what I want when I call, will I be less disappointed if a member stays in "my" room than if it's someone one rents the room? Nope.

 

[KLR-wlv]

So I suppose what is being proposed is that we have mandatory week long reservations and a use-it-or-lose-it system - which would in effect, make a DVC membership like all other traditional timeshares - which I see being sold for about $4000...

I would say that the flexibility for every member to use their points as allowed in the contract is what makes DVC so great and, in fact, INCREASES the value of ownership, not "hurts" members...

 

[anniet]

I will agree with Richyams to the point that if I am a DVC member and I want to book a DVC room that is NOT my home resort, I can only do that at the 7 month window. But if someone has the resort I would like to stay at as THEIR home resort and at the 11 month window they book two or more rooms for someone they are renting to, then I have a greater possiblity of getting, at the very least, waitlisted. And I agree with KNWVIKING, I would be a nervous wreck unless and until I got off the wait list.

I also must say that it wasn't until after I purchased DVC that I realized that owners could rent their points. (I knew Disney could rent the rooms, I didn't know we could too). I was a little disappointed, because I bought into the concept that I was going to be part of a DVC "family" and figured that others around me at DVC would be part of that family, while the truth is they could have booked their room from someone over the internet. I'm NOT saying that's a bad thing, I'm just saying it's not what I hoped for.

All that being said, it is true, we can do whatever we want to with our points. And while some may see it as inconsiderate, and it very well may be, DVC owners are well within their rights to do it.

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by Jen D
This widely held belief that someone who had the wherewithal to slap down their 10% downpayment is innately more likely to be good and honest is pretty ridiculous. By the same token, I'm always hearing certain dvc'ers carping about what being a member entitles them to and how they wished Disney would give them more stuff. Maybe some members in the past thought being a member "entitled" them to bring home coasters and placemats. Where am I pulling this completely unfair conjecture? Out of my rear-end? Yes! Much where we're getting the oft-repeated belief that renters and cash customers are more likely to be responsible for theft and damage.

Gail, I'm sorry to jump on you, but I see that assertion a lot without anything, anything, anything to back it up other than wishful thinking.

It has been a long standing thought that the pride of ownership keeps people from destroying things. There are exceptions.
If everyone treated something they rented as if it were their own, they would not be required to pay outrageous security deposits for anything they rent. It is not the 10% down, it is the the thousands spent for "ownership".

I did not take your post as "jumping on me" I see it as a difference of opinion, which is fine and, by me, welcomed.
The "oft-repeated belief" is oft repeated because it has a lot of basis in truth.

 

[KNWVIKING]

No,that is not what I'm saying. One of the great features of DVC is the flexibility of it. But from what the anti-renter posters have mentioned in the past is that renters mostly rent the weekdays. Sure ,at 11 months I can get what I want,but the FLEXIBILITY of DVC is when I suddenly have an opportunity for a quick getaway and nothing but weekends are availible.

I guess this thread is just pointless. If you don't see a downside to someone holding two ressies knowing full well they only have intentions of keeping one, then I can type till I'm blue in the finger and your not going to get it.

 

[Richyams]

I've never understood what difference it makes. The owner has the points to use, they make the reservation. Whether it's for them, a friend, family member or a renter, it's their points to use as they see fit.

How about two rooms for a renter that is only going to use one?

 

[WDWMom]

Well put anniet. In that light, I feel a responsibility to my fellow Club(family) members. If I have a reservation I am not going to use I cancel it. In the back of my mind I'm thinking of that other DVC family of four who want to go, but are on the wait list.

I own a significant amount of points. If I wanted to I could reserve alot of nights at the 11 month window just in case. I don't because it is not necessary. Why is it necessary to tie up two reservations for a renter until they make up their mind ? Meanwhile a DVC family is on the waitlist because they didn't plan their lives 11 months in advance. So much for flexibilty. I thought I could plan my vacations for when I wanted to go. Now I know that if I want to benefit from the club I payed thousands of dollars to join I have to call once each day at the 11 month window or else a private citizen will rent the points I want from one of our pro business members. I actually don't have a problem with some renting of points, it's the members who have crossed over into that grey commercial area. Web pages dedicated to renting, E-bay, these are people looking to cash in.

When I purchased our membership I felt part of something special. Now I know that it's my vacations that are special and the DVC " family " feeling is becoming a distant memory. Too many of my fellow members seem to be in it for the money.

 

[Regina]

How about it's not my place to tell anyone how to use their points anymore than I would want anyone telling me how to use mine.

Rent, don't rent, cruise, don't cruise, exchange, don't exchange, everyone has opinions.

The bottom line is, it's up to the owner how they choose to use their own points.

 

[Richyams]

This blows all the silly "If you use the eleven month window....." arguments away:

I will agree with Richyams to the point that if I am a DVC member and I want to book a DVC room that is NOT my home resort, I can only do that at the 7 month window. But if someone has the resort I would like to stay at as THEIR home resort and at the 11 month window they book two or more rooms for someone they are renting to, then I have a greater possiblity of getting, at the very least, waitlisted. And I agree with KNWVIKING, I would be a nervous wreck unless and until I got off the wait list.

So a BWV owner is subordinate to a BCV renter's 'just in case' second, spurious reservation?????

 

[Richyams]

The bottom line is, it's up to the owner how they choose to use their own points.

And I think that reserving two rooms for a rentel that is only going to require one, is a thoughtless, self-absorbed, selfish, rotten thing to do to fellow members.

 

[Richyams]

Furthermore......

I can understand someone avoiding weekends like the plague. I think they do all members a diservice by throwing the occupancy rates off, but I understand it and thier right to do it. Those that are saying that weekends are sold, made up for elsewhere, stc, are simply wrong. We have had the occupany rates posted here several time. Weekends have the lowest occupancy. it is so much of a problem that DVC actually sent out a survey asking about evening out the ddays of the week to address the problem.

It was pretty soundly defeated.

As people continue to do this and as renting becomes more popular, the problem will get worse and this is the fault of those who rent only weekdays.

As long as DVC members choose non-DVC options (except the exchanges), DVC must rent rooms to "pay" for that option. Since most non-DVC members (the general public) prefer weekend trips or trips that include at least one weekend, I doubt all that many of the rooms will go unused.

You are wrong. I don't have a link to the occupany rates, but we have seen them here and you are wrong.

I wanted to add this PS also:

PS:Addie, I don't think anyone- at least I don't- have a problem with rentee's. You are simply someone looking for a good deal, which is what we all do.