Rental Rates/Concerns

[jimmytammy]

I work to hard to pay for those pts so I am not going to rent them for less than their worth. But I hope I can always use them for our family and if I cant use them give them to someone who may not be able to afford accomodations. We along with some other DVCers donated pts so a terminally ill young lady and her kids could make the trip, thats what I would rather do with my extra pts

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Originally posted by Richyams
Furthermore......

I can understand someone avoiding weekends like the plague. I think they do all members a diservice by throwing the occupancy rates off, but I understand it and thier right to do it.

Isn't that exactly what you do yourself when you stay 12 nights, but only 2 weekend nights? You are doing exactly what you criticize others for doing.

Those that are saying that weekends are sold, made up for elsewhere, stc, are simply wrong. We have had the occupany rates posted here several time. Weekends have the lowest occupancy. it is so much of a problem that DVC actually sent out a survey asking about evening out the ddays of the week to address the problem. ....
You are wrong. I don't have a link to the occupany rates, but we have seen them here and you are wrong.

Since you're unable to provide any statistics for this claim, please realize that the weekend occupancy statistics released by DVC cover only the member point usage- it does not cover the actual occupancy of the resort and does not include the cash reservation utility created by members using points for non-DVC options. DVC has never released those numbers. Point utilization by members may be lower on weekends (and I'm certain it is), but actual occupancy is kept up by cash reservations- both by members and non-members. We do get "breakage income" figures, but those cover only dates rented for cash from the member inventory- not any cash reservation from non-DVC utilization.

 

[Richyams]

Isn't that exactly what you do yourself when you stay 12 nights, but only 2 weekend nights? You are doing exactly what you criticize others for doing.

At least I use some weekend days and don't avoid them completely.

On the second point, why did we get that survey? I remember an official explanation somewhere regarding higher dues caused by these imbalances.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Originally posted by Richyams

On the second point, why did we get that survey? I remember an official explanation somewhere regarding higher dues caused by these imbalances.

You'd better find that "official explanation" then. I can't think of any relationship between higher dues and members not using points on weekends and certainly don't recall any explanation relating dues and underutilization of points.

The survey I remember was about 5-6 years ago and asked (among other things) what members thought about reallocating points again- like what was done at OKW in 1996. The survey did not suggest that such a change was needed and was well before the subsequent increase in members using non-DVC options- thus providing more points to be used for weekend cash reservations.

Because of the increased utilization of Disney Collection and Concierge Collection options (especially with the popular cruise options), DVC now has many points to work with in making cash reservations for weekends. It appears to me that the members have solved any potential problem, by providing points for those weekend dates to keep occupancy at workable levels.

 

[Regina]

And I think that reserving two rooms for a rentel that is only going to require one, is a thoughtless, self-absorbed, selfish, rotten thing to do to fellow members.

And I still stand by my belief that it's not my business to tell anyone how to use their points.

I stay on weekends which members criticize. I went on the Member Cruise, which members criticized. I used the Concierge Collection, which members criticize.

Bottom line, I use my points the way that I see fit, and I extend that same courtesy to others.

 

[Tigger1]

I wonder who is responcible for damages a renter leaves. If dishes, towels ect are missing does Disney do anything? What if the renter was distructive. Do are dues pay for damage or the person who owns the rented points.

I might rent points for a nice profit if I was not concerned about who was in the room and what damage they might do. Would you rent your house, furnished for a week to these same people you rent your points to.

Making more reservations than is needed is not fair to others trying to get ressies. Maybe Disney needs a cancelation cost.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

DVC wants you to rent your points out. It lets the owners showcase DVC and make sales for them...it's free advertising for DVD.

I wonder how many rentees ended up buying?

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by Richyams
No you didn't.

You responded by saying that you would take two rooms out of member's inventory while knowing full well that only one would be used. Its absurd for a person to call CRO and do this, I know its done all the time, that doesn't make it any more palatable.....doing it with your DVC membership is a different story. You aren't supposed to be doing things to hurt other members.

Like taking rooms you never plan to use out of inventory. Renting strictly weekdays to throw off weekend occupancy even more. These things hurt other members and I am personally offended by those that engage in these immoral activities.

And I am personally offended and medically offended by persons that smoke on the balcony of a nonsmoking room at the Animal Kingdom Lodge due to the view being better. Even though staff "gave" them permission these things hurt other guests around them.

 

[Richyams]

And that is relevant...how????

 

[anniet]

Originally posted by Tigger1
I wonder who is responcible for damages a renter leaves. If dishes, towels ect are missing does Disney do anything? What if the renter was distructive. Do are dues pay for damage or the person who owns the rented points.

I read, I believe in the POS or somewhere else in the pile of paperwork you get when you purchase, that the MEMBER is responsible for any damages that occur by anyone who is staying at DVC on their points. I recall reading that and thinking "Well, I won't be renting to anyone I don't know."

However, I hardly think DVC goes after the dishes or towels that are missing so I'm certain that gets added to our dues. I think it's all just in there in case somebody decides to tear a wall down or something like that.

Richyams- I see what Sammie means. In both situations people are allowed to do what they are allowed by Disney/DVC to do, no matter how inconsiderate or offensive others may find it.

Until DVC does something to change the process it can and will continue, like it or not. Maybe they could institute a policy where you can book 11 months at your home resort, 7 months at any other DVC resort, providing the DVC member is staying in at least one of the rooms. If the DVC member is not actually staying at the resort but is renting or gifting their accomodations to others, you only get a 6 month booking window, no matter which DVC resort it is???? Photo-ID and membership card required at check-in? That way the people who are actual DVC members would get top priority. Just a thought, but I'm certain there would be almost no way to administer it properly.

 

[ripleysmom]

Let me clarify, why I agree with Richy....

I agree with him that a renter holding 2 rooms for a "rentee" until they make up their mind is inconsiderate. Granted it may be be released into inventory but what if it isn't? What if the renter decides to just rent out that week?

I also would like to state that I have no problem with people renting out their points. My objection is to those people who do it as a going concern (and we all know that there are a few posters on this board that do just that).

 

[crisi]

If DVC didn't want renters, they could be more aggressive in going after room damages. I'd think twice - even with a contract - before renting points to someone I didn't know if I were going to get a bill for the towels - much less cleaning the carpet from the spilled beer or replacing a ripped couch cushion.

They could also make some policy changes. Members staying on points can list room preferences. Guests of members not traveling with the member can't. Guests of members not traveling with the member don't get room keys saying DVC member and don't get the perks or discounts. Guests of members not traveling with the member have to use the seven month booking window. However, I think most of these rules would be abused anyway.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by Richyams
And that is relevant...how????

In that what offends one, obviously does not offend another. Whether it's smoking on the balcony of a NS room or renting points for profit.

My point is: to me you can not be offended by certain behaviors and ignore the behavior that offends others.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Trying to bill a departing guest-wether member or renter- would be extremely tricky. Towels missing ? DVC better be able to prove housekeeping dropped off the proper amount. Beer damage to carpet ? Prove it's my beer, stain was there when I checked in. Are you willing to do a major inspection and inventory of the room-with a witness- and sign off on it at check-in, then wait around for another inspection at check-out to verify all is well, I'm not. We all live daily with the affects of disrespectful people.

 

[jmminarik]

Since this thread has devolved into a general one about renting, some thoughts I had while reading the thread:

1) Disney owns a percentage of the points at each resort, so renting rooms for cash through CRO has always been there.

2) Its easier to spread the cost of shrinkage across the board through dues than to track down miscreants and then deal with the negative PR of punishing the evil-doers. I can't recall the last time I stayed anywhere where there were 'checks' for shrinkage (other than the nifty $100 robes)...I think most places just roll the cost of shrinkage into their rates these days.

3) DVC was conceived in a time before bazillions of people ever heard of the Internet. I'm not sure DVD would change its tune about renting points if it were suddenly created today (not twenty or so years ago), but back then the ability of DVC members to be able to rent to a large population was certainly much more limited...I can't but wonder if the concept of 'renting' was in part just a means of allowing members to legally charge for renting rooms to their family, friends and acquaintances or the small 'newsletter' communities that seemed to exist back before the on-line revolution.

4) I thought DVC was set-up to specifically prevent 'companies' from owning points (other than Disney of course). That's part of the reason for the right of first refusal as I recall.

Personally, we can't fathom having enough points to rent...we've got too many friends and family members to share with, but we're also not strapped financially so our perspective is probably a bit skewed.

Happy March 28th.
-Joe

 

[PamOKW]

I can't but wonder if the concept of 'renting' was in part just a means of allowing members to legally charge for renting rooms to their family, friends and acquaintances

This was my understanding of the renting privilege in our agreement. I felt the "no commercial use" would prevent people from advertising in the classifieds to outside renters. I've since come the realization that this was a misunderstanding on my part. Of course, now the ease of commerce on the Internet has made renting to anyone an inexpensive enterprise. The kindness of Pete Werner in setting up the rent board on this site is a major contributor to that ease. I think Pete's original intention was to have a "swap" board for members to use but this, too, has turned into something different.

I don't like the idea of large scale for profit rentals. I think that throws an unnatural flow into the use of the resorts and could impact the way the system works. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a way to put a stop to small scale rentals without either stepping on legal grounds or impacting the ability to let friends and relatives use accomodations when we are not there.

I would hope that DVC would crack down on any true rental business. There should not be any "DVC's R Us" operations.

I see and share Rich's frustration in people tying up dates for potential rental but there is no "real" difference in booking those dates versus booking multiple dates for personal use. The only concern I have is, once again, that it's not a natural use of points by individuals but there is no way for DVC to make that distinction.

 

[CarolMN]

You are wrong. I don't have a link to the occupany rates, but we have seen them here and you are wrong.

You and I will just have to disagree on this - for all of the reasons so eloquently posted by DOC. FWIW, I have not "seen them here". Please post a link if you can. Would love to see data on occupancy rates.

I'd cheerfully admit being wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but in the absence of data, I will continue to believe most people prefer to have at least one weekend in their trips. That's true even of DVC members, including you (based on what you have posted about your vacations) The main reason members say they avoid weekends is the higher point cost. Since weekends do not cost more through CRO, I have got to believe that almost every trip booked by the cash paying public includes at least one weekend.

As I've posted before, I do not rent out points and do not anticipate ever wanting to do so in the future. Legalities aside (renting is allowed by our contract), I do not want DVC to institute any administrative procedures to "control" renting because I believe it will be costly, generate multiple member complaints and ultimately result in increased dues.

In short, I believe that any problems that may or may not be generated by those who rent are smaller than the cost of "enforcement". For me, it's a matter of proportion.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Being a new member and a previous renter, the only problem with renting that I see is the people that book the room in hopes of someone wanting that time and puts it for sale on E-Bay. I think its totaly different if someone puts up X amount of points available for rent, gets a renter and then books a room. To me that is fine, but for the person that continually books 5 night stays and puts them on E-Bay I think that is an abuse of the system, and a dis-service to Members that can't get time because someone may or may not use the room.

 

[PamOKW]

Clarabelle - I agree 100% with you. Trying to pick desireable dates to hold for rental is what irks me. There's always someone out to "beat the system" and that is one way to do it.

 

[Synonymous]

I bought into the concept that I was going to be part of a DVC "family" and figured that others around me at DVC would be part of that family

This is the heart of the problem- too many DVC owners think we're part of some "exclusive" club and inherently better than anyone who isn't part of it. This is why people have a problem with renters.

Wake up, folks- 70,000 owners is not a "family," it's the general public. We don't even really "own" anything, at best we have a long-term lease, more accurately, we have some kind of license to occupy hotel space. And guess what, the terms of our contract provide that the unwashed masses have every right to plunk down money and stay in "our" precious resorts, either through CRO or through rentals.

The last I checked, "immorality" is not defined as "anything that inconveniences Richyams." A contract is a legal relationship, not a moral one. I'd think anyone professing to believe in the free enterprise system would at least understand that.