Recent experience in selling BWV contract

[RoseGold]

Four pages later, and no one has mentioned the APs. Major, major issue IMO. I don't understand who would buy this who doesn't have/can't get an AP. I wouldn't have even considered it.

This is a major structural change that makes owners unable to use DVC as much as they want, and it casts a serious shadow over Disney's current decisions. There are a non-zero number of owners selling right now because they have given up on APs.

As long as there are no APs, the product of DVC doesn't make sense to me to purchase, unless you want to rent out points. Or, I guess you're the every other year type or something. Even then, I'm not sure why you would buy into this. By the listings, I'm not the only one thinking this.

 

[Jayunit09]

Four pages later, and no one has mentioned the APs. Major, major issue IMO. I don't understand who would buy this who doesn't have/can't get an AP. I wouldn't have even considered it.

This is a major structural change that makes owners unable to use DVC as much as they want, and it casts a serious shadow over Disney's current decisions. There are a non-zero number of owners selling right now because they have given up on APs.

As long as there are no APs, the product of DVC doesn't make sense to me to purchase, unless you want to rent out points. Or, I guess you're the every other year type or something. Even then, I'm not sure why you would buy into this. By the listings, I'm not the only one thinking this.

Why wouldn’t we buy into it with an every other year plan??

We can stay in a 2 bedroom unit for the same price as an AoA suite. Seemed pretty straight forward to my family.

We always stay in 2 bedrooms, even off property. That wasn’t an option in Disney unless we wanted to spend 15k for a week.

 

[RoseGold]

We always stay in 2 bedrooms, even off property. That wasn’t an option in Disney unless we wanted to spend 15k for a week.

Renting points was always an option. Maybe not as good of a math argument then as I would say it is now. Obviously, plenty of people bought in for every other year. But there was always a choice in the middle.

I'd just rent if I were coming every other year. With how Disney decisions are going right now, I can see how buying in is even less appealing right now.

 

[Jayunit09]

Renting points was always an option. Maybe not as good of a math argument as I would say it is now. Obviously, plenty of people bought in for every other year. But there was always a choice in the middle.

I'd just rent if I were coming every other year. With how Disney decisions are going right now, I can see how buying in is even less appealing right now.

Renting is absolutely a possibility and something we thought of. For sure it’s better than rack rates or discounted rates through Disney. I put a value on controlling my own reservation though.

We will likely rent out left over points to recoup some costs, if any.

 

[tom1944]

Our plan is 7 days a year. I never had an annual pass would it benefit me instead of purchasing a 5 day pass?

 

[RoseGold]

Our plan is 7 days a year. I never had an annual pass would it benefit me instead of purchasing a 5 day pass?

It would have in the past, even if you just did, say late August one year, early August the next.

Now, you won't be able to let it lapse, if you did have one. And who knows what tickets are doing in the future. Well, I have a guess. Getting more expensive.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Four pages later, and no one has mentioned the APs. Major, major issue IMO. I don't understand who would buy this who doesn't have/can't get an AP. I wouldn't have even considered it.

AP's are important to many of us, but It sure seems like they aren't to just as many owners. If folks don't come to WDW enough nights each year, then AP's may not make sense for them, but DVC still can.

This is a major structural change that makes owners unable to use DVC as much as they want, and it casts a serious shadow over Disney's current decisions. There are a non-zero number of owners selling right now because they have given up on APs.

It's a change for WDW, to be sure, but not a structural change to DVC and has zero impact on the owners' ability to use their points.

As long as there are no APs, the product of DVC doesn't make sense to me to purchase, unless you want to rent out points. Or, I guess you're the every other year type or something. Even then, I'm not sure why you would buy into this. By the listings, I'm not the only one thinking this.

I don't doubt that some owners are frustrated with the inability to purchase AP's to the extent they are willing to sell. I would bet that it's actually a relatively small number.

 

[RoseGold]

It's a change for WDW, to be sure, but not a structural change to DVC and has zero impact on the owners' ability to use their points.

Sure, all we bought was a room.

Come on. The park decisions absolutely impact DVC and how owners use their points.

And that's one of the reasons there are so many contracts for sale.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Sure, all we bought was a room.

Come on. The park decisions absolutely impact DVC and how owners use their points.

And that's one of the reasons there are so many contracts for sale.

I quoted your exact words and reacted to those words. Sorry if I read them too literally.

Not having access to an annual pass certainly impacts some owners. It will definitely impact us if we cannot renew ours, but it seems to be a non-issue for just as many.

We can also argue about why so many contracts are for sale, given neither of us has any actual data or first-hand knowledge of why people are selling. I doubt people leave DVC in droves because they can't get an AP. I think many owners who want AP's are taking a wait-and-see approach in hopes of the ability to buy them returns.

Have you sold your points yet? Just curious.

 

[tidefan]

I quoted your exact words and reacted to those words. Sorry if I read them too literally.

Not having access to an annual pass certainly impacts some owners. It will definitely impact us if we cannot renew ours, but it seems to be a non-issue for just as many.

We can also argue about why so many contracts are for sale, given neither of us has any actual data or first-hand knowledge of why people are selling. I doubt people leave DVC in droves because they can't get an AP. I think many owners who want AP's are taking a wait-and-see approach in hopes of the ability to buy them returns.

Have you sold your points yet? Just curious.

I am actually going to agree with @RoseGold here. I think that the point is that without the AP's, there isn't much incentive for high point DVC memberships. I think that the number of people that own over 400 points would surprise you. That is definitely enough for multiple weeks in studios.

So, if you have a lot of points and with no AP, your options are to upsize units and go less, rent excess points, shell out for tickets every trip, or change your vacation habits.

I've posted this before, but I looked back on our post-COVID no AP trips and the change in our visit pattern from then through this summer surprised even me when I looked at it. We've only booked 3 WDW trips since the parks reopened. 2 of those were 4-night stays at BLT for Labor Day weekend where all we bought were Boo Bash/MNSSHP tickets. The other was a 4-night stay at VGF that our DD and her friends used and didn't go to the parks. Outside of that, we've spent 13 nights at VB (in 1/2 Bdrms), a week in a 2-Bdrm at HHI, and 3 weeks in a 2-Bdrm at Aulani.

We've found that without AP's, it's cheaper to go to Hawaii than to go to WDW. Can't believe I'm saying that...

 

[BeachClub2014]

I am actually going to agree with @RoseGold here. I think that the point is that without the AP's, there isn't much incentive for high point DVC memberships. I think that the number of people that own over 400 points would surprise you. That is definitely enough for multiple weeks in studios.

So, if you have a lot of points and with no AP, your options are to upsize units and go less, rent excess points, shell out for tickets every trip, or change your vacation habits.

I've posted this before, but I looked back on our post-COVID no AP trips and the change in our visit pattern from then through this summer surprised even me when I looked at it. We've only booked 3 WDW trips since the parks reopened. 2 of those were 4-night stays at BLT for Labor Day weekend where all we bought were Boo Bash/MNSSHP tickets. The other was a 4-night stay at VGF that our DD and her friends used and didn't go to the parks. Outside of that, we've spent 13 nights at VB (in 1/2 Bdrms), a week in a 2-Bdrm at HHI, and 3 weeks in a 2-Bdrm at Aulani.

We've found that without AP's, it's cheaper to go to Hawaii than to go to WDW. Can't believe I'm saying that...

I haven't ever argued that AP's aren't important to many owners, myself included. We have almost always had AP's and will continue to have them as long as we can. We own three different home resorts north of the 400 points described above, so I do get it.

My point was that the inability to purchase an AP hasn't structurally changed DVC or impacted the ability of an owner to use their points, which was the statement being made. An owner chooses to modify their previous or desired use of their points because they cannot buy an AP, which is fine. It's their right to do so.

I also seriously doubt that many owners are actually selling their stake in DVC as a result. Is it happening? Likely. Is it creating a flood of selling? Doubtful. But, that's just my opinion.

 

[RoseGold]

We can also argue about why so many contracts are for sale, given neither of us has any actual data or first-hand knowledge of why people are selling. I doubt people leave DVC in droves because they can't get an AP. I think many owners who want AP's are taking a wait-and-see approach in hopes of the ability to buy them returns.

Have you sold your points yet? Just curious.

We bought APs when they were briefly for sale in 2021. Without an AP, I probably would be selling right now, honestly. Without an AP, I couldn't do WDW the way I want to. I have a whole lot of points and do multiple trips for a few days. There is no way I would have bought day tickets for how we travel, frequently half days at parks or hopping for a couple hours here and there. If APs can't be renewed at all, then I'll do a Halloween party for a night and go Universal, probably. That's a question for a year from now.

I had planned to sell a contract, I bought more in peak Covid and planned to sell my old points. But now pricing seems too low. I actually made a couple spec reservations to rent out later in the year on Facebook if I can't use all my points. It's not how I saw myself using my DVC, but here we are.

There are plenty of posts here from plenty of DVC members frustrated with no APs and members selling because of all the changes. I don't think it's much of a logical stretch to see how something this major could cause people to sell.

 

[BeachClub2014]

We bought APs when they were briefly for sale in 2021. Without an AP, I probably would be selling right now, honestly. Without an AP, I couldn't do WDW the way I want to. I have a whole lot of points and do multiple trips for a few days. There is no way I would have bought day tickets for how we travel, frequently half days at parks or hopping for a couple hours here and there.

I had planned to sell a contract, I bought more in peak Covid and planned to sell my old points. But now pricing seems too low. I actually made a couple spec reservations to rent out later in the year on Facebook if I can't use all my points. It's not how I saw myself using my DVC, but here we are.

There are plenty of posts here from plenty of DVC members frustrated with no APs and members selling because of all the changes. I don't think it's much of a logical stretch to see how something this major could cause people to sell.

Makes sense; thanks for sharing.

I get the frustration of not being able to buy AP's. I'm right there with you on that point. We've owned DVC for over 20 years, and I am not enamored with all of the changes and the evolution, but we haven't reached the tipping point of selling our points off. We may get there someday. I hope not. That tipping point is different for everyone, and the reasons are just as varied.

 

[tidefan]

We bought APs when they were briefly for sale in 2021. Without an AP, I probably would be selling right now, honestly. Without an AP, I couldn't do WDW the way I want to. I have a whole lot of points and do multiple trips for a few days. There is no way I would have bought day tickets for how we travel, frequently half days at parks or hopping for a couple hours here and there.

I had planned to sell a contract, I bought more in peak Covid and planned to sell my old points. But now pricing seems too low. I actually made a couple spec reservations to rent out later in the year on Facebook if I can't use all my points. It's not how I saw myself using my DVC, but here we are.

There are plenty of posts here from plenty of DVC members frustrated with no APs and members selling because of all the changes. I don't think it's much of a logical stretch to see how something this major could cause people to sell.

I'll give you another reason why people may be considering selling...

For us, we never thought we'd sell a contract. That said, as an original VGF1 owner, it really rubbed me the wrong way when they added BPK into the association. It greatly increased competition for the original VGF building. We have no desire to stay in the "resort studios", and have found this year that getting deluxe studios in high demand times (I was looking around Christmas/NYE/Marathon weekend times) was very difficult. The deluxe studios were often gone early in the morning right at 11 months. Plenty of Resort Studio availability. If that's the way VGF is going to be going forward, then there isn't a point in us owning there anymore. Honestly, we've been members since 2007 and this is really the first thing that has rubbed me the wrong way. IMHO, VGF2 should have been a separate association...

 

[kilik64]

Im sure the ap issue has factored in to some of the people selling, but is a huge driver? probably not.

Im sure there are also a ton of families like ours, travel with kids in school and go on the same break (spring break for us) and do 4-5 days in the parks so getting an AP doesnt make sense as its still cheaper just to pay for the tickets.

Once the parks need aps to help fill them up again, they'll be back.

 

[mustinjourney]

As someone who sold there VGF contract in October of 2022 when VGF was listed around $185/190 point on most brokers sites, I was more than willing to negotiate with a buyer who started at $163/point. We ended up at $165/point because we could see this coming and wanted to unload the contract........ Now VGF is at $145 and dropping.

I think a lot of sellers are in for a rough couple of years moving forward and might have to sell at a loss. After all fees, we ended up losing roughly $1000 on the contract, which means we paid $1000 for these points from 2016.

MattyB! I remember us both buying VGF at the same time back in 2016. So funny.

Are you now completely out of DVC, or just downsizing holdings?

 

[mustinjourney]

AP's are important to many of us, but It sure seems like they aren't to just as many owners. If folks don't come to WDW enough nights each year, then AP's may not make sense for them, but DVC still can.


It's a change for WDW, to be sure, but not a structural change to DVC and has zero impact on the owners' ability to use their points.


I don't doubt that some owners are frustrated with the inability to purchase AP's to the extent they are willing to sell. I would bet that it's actually a relatively small number.

DVC membership usually ends up with add-on-itis. Which then causes AP purchasing -- which can further exacerbate add-on-itis (i.e., fueling resale demand).

So I would venture to say that loss of APs has definitely caused some members to downsize and/or forego buying more points than they otherwise would have.

 

[mustinjourney]

One thing that might be slowing down the resale purchasing right now is the uncertainty surrounding the Poly tower and the DL tower. We don't know what the pricing is going to be -- nor do we know if they will have restrictions, or if the poly tower is going to be part of PVB like the VGF expansion was.

That uncertainty is likely causing some people to take a wait and see approach.

 

[BeachClub2014]

DVC membership usually ends up with add-on-itis. Which then causes AP purchasing -- which can further exacerbate add-on-itis (i.e., fueling resale demand).

So I would venture to say that loss of APs has definitely caused some members to downsize and/or forego buying more points than they otherwise would have.

No doubt. The key word is "some."

I also see many posts and comments from owners saying that AP's mean nothing to them.

To each their own, right?

 

[BeachClub2014]

One thing that might be slowing down the resale purchasing right now is the uncertainty surrounding the Poly tower and the DL tower. We don't know what the pricing is going to be -- nor do we know if they will have restrictions, or if the poly tower is going to be part of PVB like the VGF expansion was.

That uncertainty is likely causing some people to take a wait and see approach.

Could be. I also think many informed prospective buyers are waiting to see how further the floor will be on various resorts.