Recent Budget Threads and SAHMs

[MrsPete]

Although the majority that have posted on here so far are educated and had great careers, its true many SAHMs don't have that back ground . . . how much money . . . Daycare is so expensive . . . special needs child . . . The cost of going back and forth to work . . . Appropriate clothing for work . . . This is just not a black or white issue about getting a job . . .

I totally agree! Every family has to filter the choice through their own resources and circumstances. What jobs are available? How much actual income would be brought home? What costs (including time) are associated with the job? What benefits beyond the paycheck does the job provide? What are the other spouse's options?

 

[DVCLiz]

Please don't assume that just because I am a SAHM that I am uneducated. I have made a choice to be home with my children. My husband is active duty military. We move, sometimes every year. He is deployed quite often. The only constant in my childrens life is ME. We are doing what is best for them.

The other point I would like to address is to please not assume that because we are living on one income that we can not offer our children quality lives. They want for NOTHING! They have attended excellent private preschools and elementary schools. We our homeschooling them now, because it is what is right for us at the moment. My girls are involved in numerous activities, including competitive dance and gymnastics. They have college funds. They have new clothes and we drive nice cars. We vacation often.

If I choose to spend less by pinching in some areas, it is because those areas are not as important to me. I am frugal in order to allow for the things we want!

Not everyone is in the same situation. I feel for those that have to pinch more then we do. We were there when they were babies. But with no family nearby and constant moves, it was extremely hard to work and actually make any money after all the work related expenses were paid. We survived by being frugal and doing without some wants. That season of our lives is behind us.

Everyones situation is unique. If more women would support each others decisions instead of trying to put others down in order to make themselves feel better about their own situation(it goes both ways) the world would be a much more pleasant place.

Goodness, I din't assume anything about your education or the quality of life you provide for your children. I didn't say I thought all SAHMs were uneducated (and I never would - I'm currently a SAHM and I have a Master's degree!!) nor did I say SAHMs must not be able to provide for their children.

If you have a one income family, are able to afford all of the things you listed in your post, and can manage well financially, then you're obviously not in the category of SAHM I was referring to. My question had to do with women who respond to financial posts, who have none of the things you listed (and in fact are on much shakier financial ground than going without those high-tciket items) and fret about how they will continue to manage on one income.

 

[Caitsmama]

Well, We made the choice for me to be a SAHM when my dd was born because i simply didn't want anyone else raising my child. Period. Your darn right, i will scrimp save, and pinch to be able to be there for my dd. And, you know, i was brought up the opposite.. I had a mom who was a workaholic, and i remember my grandmother taking me everyday.. I just didn't want that, i feel my mom missed alot.
Now, However, I totally understand if moms have to work because of a need to, say single moms or whatever..
However, i just think there aren't as many moms staying with their kids anymore, and it is showing in the way kids behave.
Lots of familys have 2 working parents, but also want the huge house, the 2 big SUV's and the vacation in the alps. (for example)
Yes, i could go and get a 9-5 job.. which i have - as i own my store, i am lucky enough to bring my dd to work if i need to. Which is the MAIN reason i opened my own business... if it weren't for this, i would definately be a wahm. Hands down.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Single Mom (involuntary btw, my ex was diagnosed with schizophrenia when my son was a baby) chiming in saying thank whoever you have to pray to that you HAVE A CHOICE....

And while you're on your knees hope you kept up with the world in case you do have to walk a mile in my shoes.

Great point.

 

[Grumpy's Gal]

Your childcare costs would eat up any paycheck you could earn?

Other reasons??

I think this is mostly it and then the other things.......transportation to and from a job (buy another car) plus car insurance and tags/taxes on that car. Then there is the clothes that would be required, dry cleaning, etc. Before I became a SAHM, our financial planner did a little figuring for us and for a $40,000 a year job, I was really only "getting" about $10,000. By the time I had to pay tax on it and it put us in a different tax bracket, gas costs for going to work, parking costs, extra dress clothes for work, daycare etc, etc.

 

[MrsPete]

However, i just think there aren't as many moms staying with their kids anymore, and it is showing in the way kids behave.

I agree that we have some serious issues with the youth in our country today, and it goes way beyond just simple behavior. However, I'm not ready to lay those issues at the feet of working moms when so many other circumstances have changed:

Divorce is so much more prevalent, and that hurts children in so many ways.
Church is no longer a part of most family's lives, or if it is, it's on a very superficial level.
Moral relativism reigns supreme; there's no right or wrong, just what you believe.
Our children are exposed to so much more television, so many more advertisements, so many more dangers -- in a way, we were "never their age".
Family time as previous generations knew it has largely disappeared; for example, so few families even sit together at the table. (I personally wonder if that's why everyone's so drawn to eating out these days -- it's the only time some families sit down together.)
Our children have been given so many toys and experiences at such a young age that they fail to appreciate them.

The world isn't the same as it was in the past, and we can't blame that on any one particular issue. Even if you and I aren't affected personally by these (and more) negatives in today's society, our children's classmates are affected and that affects our children.

Most of the kids I know personally are decent kids -- regardless of whether their parents work. I do know a couple little monsters though. One spent the night at my house recently, and she is never, ever allowed back in my house again -- ever, ever, ever. Her mom's a SAHM.

 

[Rozzie]

I agree with the OP. There are a great number of posts lately (and whole threads) that are about frustrations of SAHM's who can't pay the bills. I also wondered "why don't you work?". That doesn't make me anti-SAHM, or anything else. If I had children that were suffering, I would work. I know I couldn't sleep at night knowing there was some money somewhere for a emergency. Because we all know, emergencies happen, all the time. But that's just me. I do know lots of SAHM's who would be in big time dire straits if something ever happened to their DH's, God forbid. They talk of not even being able to afford life insurance or contribute to their spouse's 401K.

I was the child of a workaholic. She was also a single mom, not by choice. My grandmother cooked every dinner for 12 years. When she remarried, she kept working. She missed out on a lot of things. But I never would think she loved me any less, because she chose to work. I was not "utterly destroyed" because of it.

 

[DVCLiz]

I think this is mostly it and then the other things.......transportation to and from a job (buy another car) plus car insurance and tags/taxes on that car. Then there is the clothes that would be required, dry cleaning, etc. Before I became a SAHM, our financial planner did a little figuring for us and for a $40,000 a year job, I was really only "getting" about $10,000. By the time I had to pay tax on it and it put us in a different tax bracket, gas costs for going to work, parking costs, extra dress clothes for work, daycare etc, etc.

Yep, I think you're right. I see some responses like this, and a few daycare avoiders, and a few "no one else will raise my child" posts.

Of course, we're all speculating, because no one who is really in this circumstance has posted.

It's always interesting to me to see how different people respond. This isn't really even a "should moms work or stay at home?" thread - those responses always get so heated from both sides. I was just wondering about those other posters - seems to me if you were standing by a burning house and there was a fire hose lying by your side, you'd pick it up and put out the fire, even if you'd decided years ago that holding hoses was something you'd never do...if your financial life was on fire, wouldn't you pick up the hose??

 

[MrsPete]

I think this is mostly it and then the other things.......transportation to and from a job (buy another car) plus car insurance and tags/taxes on that car. Then there is the clothes that would be required, dry cleaning, etc. Before I became a SAHM, our financial planner did a little figuring for us and for a $40,000 a year job, I was really only "getting" about $10,000. By the time I had to pay tax on it and it put us in a different tax bracket, gas costs for going to work, parking costs, extra dress clothes for work, daycare etc, etc.

Yes, this is an oft-repeated reason for not working, and I'm sure that it's true for many people. However, it doesn't entirely hold water. Most of us are going to own that second car whether we work or not. We're going to need clothing whether we work or not (and since I can buy nice work clothing easily at consignment stores, but I usually have to buy jeans new, work clothes are actually less expensive for me). Not all of us pay for dry cleaning, parking, and other "high end" work expenses.

I'd argue that -- for most of us -- a job is kind of like raising kids: within reason, it can be as expensive, or as cheap as we choose to make it.

 

[dizagain]

I'm a SAHM - 12 1/2 years so far. I worked part-time as a K teacher for 7 of those years. Well, child number 3 is arriving in the next few weeks, so I plan to remain at home and cut the part-time teaching for a few years...ebay helps with extras. We moved to the Chicago area last year and our expenses went through the roof compared to what they were in Texas. We now have to cut corners and watch our money more closely especially with baby. However this is temporary as we will get transferred back out of here within the year.

I love being home with the girls (and soon to be boy) and it has been the right choice for US, meaning I am only responsible for making choices for my own family. Now that the girls are older and one is entering middle school I feel the need to be home is stronger than ever. That's it, plain and simple. We chose to give up lots of extras and we don't regret it. I am going to take some courses over the next few years to get my teaching degree caught up to today's standards and when my son starts full-time school I plan to begin teaching public school again. I may be working later in life than some would like in order to "catch up" on savings, etc, but it's a choice we made long ago. I LOVE THE BUDGET BOARD and it gives me lots of ideas and tips for saving $$$ - that's why I'm here!

 

[sk!mom]

Would you give up meals out? Yes
Would you wear the same winter coat for five years? Yes (but I wear everything until it falls from my body anyway)
Would you give up the family's second car? yes (DH and I did this in our lean years to speed debt reduction)
Would you live in an apartment instead of your own home?yes a trailer? noyour mother-in-law's basement? Hell no
Would you postpone retirement for 5 years? yes10 years?no more?
Would you continue to stay home if you felt your marriage was shakey and you feared divorce? no
Would you go without health insurance? nolet your children go without braces? no
Would you forgo college savings? no
Would you continue to stay at home if your spouse were laid-off?no
Would you go on public assistance to be able to stay home?no
Would you tell your children "no" to ballet lessons, horseback riding lessons, or summer camp? no

These questions put a great perspective on the question. DH and I have weighed this situation twice and chosen differently each time.

Dh and I had our first child 21 years ago after 5 years of marriage and just after college. Staying home would have called for sacrifices that we were not prepared to make. We would have been in the "dire situation" mentioned by the OP. So I went immediatly back to work.

Fast forward 11 years and we decided to have another child. At this time, we were debt free except for a mortgage and DH was well established in his career so I took a 3 year break to be a SAHM and then worked part time for 1 year. My staying home didn't really call for sacrifices but not contributing to my retirement was a concern so I went back to work. As DD has gotten older my salary makes it possible for us to vacation as we like and spend a great deal on dance, piano, camps, etc....

I'm a teacher so I have lots of time to be at home and DD10 is never alone or in day care.

I suggested on a thread in the last few days that the SAHM facing financial disaster get a job ASAP and also wondered why that wasn't her first thought.

 

[MrsPete]

I was just wondering about those other posters - seems to me if you were standing by a burning house and there was a fire hose lying by your side, you'd pick it up and put out the fire, even if you'd decided years ago that holding hoses was something you'd never do...if your financial life was on fire, wouldn't you pick up the hose??

I understand the question you're asking, but I don't think there's an answer. Nice analogy.

 

[mask_w03]

I have to say for us it was 3 reasons:
1) I've always wanted to stay home and spend that time with them and build a great relationship.
2) it's just money, but I can't ever get these years back that I've spent watching her grow up in do all of her 1st in front of me.
3) I would of been bringing home about $20 a month after paying for daycare and all of her baby costs. For us it was a no brainer for me to stay home and down size on cars (we own 1 car now) and cut back on things we really don't need.

I plan on finding a job or just running the business my husband is starting up right now once she is in Kindergarten. But I don't want to miss our time bonding together or time with her since she is our only child.

 

[crisi]

And just because a woman works instead of choosing to stay home doesn't mean she is making the best financial choice.

I have friends who are...well, I want to say foolish, but I try not to judge since they seem happy with the circumstances. He really doesn't make enough to support them (they waste a lot of money, but they aren't wasting in on SUVs - he makes an OK income they don't know how to stretch - neither of them knows how to cook - he called me once for a spagetti recipe (boil water, add noodles, cook 8-10 minutes, microwave a jar of sauce sort of recipe), so every meal is takeout), and she isn't qualified to do a job that will pay for daycare for their two kids. Recognizing the need for a job, she went out and found one part time to help out. But they only have one car, and don't live near public transportation, so he is leaving his job early to get her to work - he ends up using his vacation time to drive her around. And, since if she was going to give up something she loved to work, it had better be a worthwhile job, she has a very rewarding, very cool, non-profit part time job (think gift shop at the art museum) that doesn't pay as well as working at the Wal-Mart she could walk to and takes $12 in gas to get her there (he drives her, drives back, drives to pick her up, drives back - 20 miles each way in a car that probably doesn't get 20 mpg). They find the situation to be more fulfilling, but those of us on the outside are looking at it saying "What? By the time they cover expenses and pay taxes, she must bring in $15 a week."

 

[MrsPete]

These questions put a great perspective on the question. DH and I have weighed this situation twice and chosen differently each time.

This makes perfect sense to me: you made your decision based upon the circumstances at hand rather than a generalized, "For the rest of my life, I will choose to _____".

It's kind of like when my husband and I chose to put our first daugther into private school. We knew it would be a financial sacrafice, but given our choices at that moment, it was the best option. We agreed that we'd reconsider every year when it was time to "re-up" for the next fall. For four years we chose to stay there; finally, the time came that we determined that it was time to leave -- what we were getting was no longer worth the cost. So we moved to public school. Every year -- even though we're happy with what our daughters are doing in school -- we still have a discussion: is this where we want to stay for next year? Is this still the best choice for our family?

 

[noodleknitter]

I believe that there always needs to be an emergency back-up plan. As many have said, emergencies have to be expected!

That said, if I went back to work full-time, I would be the primary income source in this house. Instead, we choose to live more simply, because it is the way we believe works best for our family. We like our life.

I have known several families who cut it too close for my comfort, but that isn't my problem. They choose to eat even more simply than we do, take no vacations, and have fewer luxuries. But i have seldomly seen it cause issues in their lives. With the exception of a couple of catastrophic problems, they seem to be savers, as well as frugal. (And how many of us could deal with a true catastophic crisis? A friend owed $200,000 after insurance when their family was in a car accident. They eventually paid it off, rather than declaring bankruptsy.) But, I have also seen the moms go to work if necessary, tutoring, typing, cleaning, etc.

 

[DVCLiz]

And just because a woman works instead of choosing to stay home doesn't mean she is making the best financial choice.

I have friends who are...well, I want to say foolish, but I try not to judge since they seem happy with the circumstances. He really doesn't make enough to support them (they waste a lot of money, but they aren't wasting in on SUVs - he makes an OK income they don't know how to stretch - neither of them knows how to cook - he called me once for a spagetti recipe (boil water, add noodles, cook 8-10 minutes, microwave a jar of sauce sort of recipe), so every meal is takeout), and she isn't qualified to do a job that will pay for daycare for their two kids. Recognizing the need for a job, she went out and found one part time to help out. But they only have one car, and don't live near public transportation, so he is leaving his job early to get her to work - he ends up using his vacation time to drive her around. And, since if she was going to give up something she loved to work, it had better be a worthwhile job, she has a very rewarding, very cool, non-profit part time job (think gift shop at the art museum) that doesn't pay as well as working at the Wal-Mart she could walk to and takes $12 in gas to get her there (he drives her, drives back, drives to pick her up, drives back - 20 miles each way in a car that probably doesn't get 20 mpg). They find the situation to be more fulfilling, but those of us on the outside are looking at it saying "What? By the time they cover expenses and pay taxes, she must bring in $15 a week."

Yes, that's certainly true, too. As someone else said, it really does make sense to sit down with a financial planner and see what all the ramifications are when a non-working spouse is thinking about entering the job market again.

And your example is one of someone who just isn't thinking at all. I have several friends who either have needed a little money or something to do once their children were grown, and they all had these kinds of jobs. My fulltime working friends and I called these "play jobs." If it costs more to dress up enough to work at the high-end dress shop selling expensive clothes to your friends than you're earning, that kind of job can be an expensive way to spend your time!!

 

[mrsbornkuntry]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I wanted to chime in with my reasons. I've been a SAHM since my third child was born for a number of reasons. First, I now have 5 children and daycare costs would eat up my income, my DH is military and with his uncertain schedule I would have to at least have a daycare backup plan, most days I have no idea when he will get home from work. Second, I don't trust anyone else to take care of my children. Third, I couldn't work for the 4 years my DS was fighting leukemia (there's NO WAY I would've let someone else care for him, but most of that time he was hospitalized or I had to give him iv's and shots so I had to be there).

That being said, if we were in a position where we couldn't feed our family after cutting all extras (cable, cell phone, internet, kids' sports...) I would at least get a job while my kids are in school and put the other two in daycare. I have picked up extra money here and there by babysitting friend's children, surveys, mystery shops, and ebay.

 

[punkin]

Robin, my mom was also a single mom and she may have had to *gasp* put me in public school, miss some of my school events, probably missed my first word and step. She managed to keep us clothed, fed and housed. I even turned out to not be a serial killer. Wonders never cease

Not fair. We all do what we have to and some of us, thank God, have more choices than others.

My mother had a lot less choices than I do. She did the best she could (which was pretty good) and I do the best I can with a LOT more resources. If I can stay home with my children, I will. It works for me in my current situation. If I had to work, I would and would not feel guilty for one minute.

 

[punkin]

I had one child and returned to work eight weeks later as an atty for a Ny firm. After 3 long months, I knew I wanted to be a SAHM. Dropping the baby off at 7 am and then rushing like crazy just to get home by 7 pm was too much. So were the nights I had to stay late and then the baby wouldn't sleep. My husband, also an attorney, held worse hours, so was not much help.

The only way i would have been able to carry on like that was with a live in full time nanny. I didnt really like the idea of someone taking care of the baby during the day AND overnight, it seemed to me to defeat the purpose of being a mother.

So, I quit. People said are you crazy? You went through all this school. You make alot of money, you have XYZ. But I stopped buying expensive bags, staying at super expensive hotels and dining at expensive restaraunts alot. I look for the best deal, where before, I didn't have time to. I clip coupons, I audit my bills, I even sell stuff on ebay.

Been there; done that; had the nanny. It worked when I had one child and my mother was alive to pop in on the nanny unexpectedly. When my mother died and couldn't supervise, my nanny decided she could take it easy and not actually care for my daughter. She actually told me once that children are like weeds, they don't really need to be watched over like hothouse flowers.

I went through 4 nannies in 3 months after I gave birth to my youngest and I finally decided that I was going to have to quit.