Reallocation of points discussion

[Granny]

I read on another thread here the following from Dean:

there has been some measure of rumor about points reallocation in the last few weeks so we'll see. Regardless I'd disagree with the unlikely tag for reallocation. It's ineventable, just a question of when and how.

I haven't read much about this, but was wondering what people's thoughts were about potential point reallocation.

Do you think it would be from one season to another? (Increase the early December points, for example and decrease summer points?)

Do you think it would be to take points from Saturday/Sunday and add to the other days of the week?

What is the most likely scenario? And I'm assuming that any point shifting would have a goal of maximizing occupancy each day of the year?

 

[Jimbo]

The one that would make the most sense to me would be to reduce the weekend point requirements and increase weekdays. It's just so out of balance, and I know that room usage is out of balance as well. The purpose of reallocating, I would think, would be to keep the occupancy rate as high as possible, and this would have to help.

We stay for a week usually, so it wouldn't mean much to us. But there's plenty of people who stay for 5 days - or rent their points out in 5 day chunks - that won't be too happy if this happens. But I'd see it as management doing the right thing.

 

[JohnnyII]

I agree that the weekends should be reduced, but not make them the same as week days. I would think you would need to keep the weekly requirement the same.

John

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I wouldn't bother me either way. When I bought points I always looked at the weekly total, not per night. We are planning to do equal amount of high and low season, so again, it would equal out for us.
I think the people that this would effect, are those who bought the exact number of points for a particular season ect....
VB and HH have the most disparity between weekdays and weekends, but that is likely a good thing at the beach front resorts.
I find the wording somewhat unclear as to whether or not points can be reallocated between room sizes.

.....

 

[Granny]

If they reduce weekend points and reallocate them to the weekdays, it would be hard for those who stay for anything other than one week increments.

For instance, if weekday points are 20 per day, and the weekends are 40 points per day, that comes to 180 points per week.

If they reallocate and make week days 24 points and weekends 30 points per per day, it would still be 180 points per week.

But if you stay for only 5 week days it would now be 120 points vs 100 points before. And if you stay for, say, 10 days with a Sunday check-in, it would be 252 points versus 240 points before.

So people would be "punished" for taking vacations in less than 1 week increments. On the other hand, they wouldn't feel as compelled to book vacations starting on a Sunday arrival since the "weekend penalty" would be largely gone.

Of course, the lowering of weekend points would also entice DVCers who live close to WDW to make weekend trips more often, making them harder to book.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Just wanted to check-for anyone who had a pending reservation last time they reallocated points. If they make the new point structure effective May 1, for example, is it only effective for those peoplewho make ressies after May 1. That is, it doesn't effect anyone who's already made ressies based on a certain number of points if their vacation is after May 1. Hope not!

 

[gazeborob]

A point allocation change could have a big effect on us. If the raise the weekday points, it will mean that I don’t get to take as many trips. Since my wife is a teacher, it makes it hard to get away at low point times. Also, since there are 5 in my family, we usually drive from the Chicago area. The airfare would cost a fortune! Our normal trip is from Sunday to Friday. Perhaps they will just cut the weekend and leave the rest of the week alone. LOL

Rob

 

[JohnnyII]

If they cut the weekends....They will be required to raise somewhere else to make the change "point neutral".

John

 

[Jimbo]

Of course, the lowering of weekend points would also entice DVCers who live close to WDW to make weekend trips more often, making them harder to book.

I'm told that's why the point structure was set up this way in the first place; the fear that locals would book up the weekends, and we snowbirds wouldn't be able to fly down and get a room for a week. But it's gone the other way now. The weekdays are hard to get, but it's a sanp to get a Friday or Saturday night.

The other reallocation possibility that comes to mind is to move the first two weeks in December out of Adventure Season (lowest possible points). Maybe they'll move December to Dream Season, and move the first two weeks in February to Adventure Season to compensate.

 

[CarolMN]

I think the rumors of reallocation are just that - rumors! No one has any data that suggests the system is out of whack. All we really know is that sometimes the phone lines to MS are very busy. There will always be some times of the year that book more quickly than others. It doesn't necessarily follow that those times need to cost more points. It may be that the point schedule actually ensures that the resort is consistently booked throughout the year.

To me, the real key is occupancy rates. If a DVC resort has a pretty consistent occupancy rate throughout the year, then there is no problem - even if some times book up later than others. If there is a significant difference in occupancy rates between some seasons or between weekends and weekdays, then there may be a problem that requires an adjustment. I just do not believe the latter is the case. Won't believe it unless someone can produce bonafide data from Disney.

IMHO, the higher points for weekends make the non-DVC options much more viable. The general public (non-DVC members) prefers weekends over weekdays. Many of them try to include two full weekends with their week's vacations. Remember all the posts on the resorts forum complaining about no availability for early December?? When questioned, it was nearly always a Friday or Saturday that was full!

If weekends did not "cost" DVC members a lot more than weekdays, they would definitely book up the Fridays and Saturdays much more quickly than they do now. That would make it more difficult to recover the cost of the non-DVC options and make them cost even more than they already do.

In summary, IMHO, there hasn't been any solid evidence that indicates there is a need to reallocate.

 

[DebbieB]

Originally posted by Simba's Mom
Just wanted to check-for anyone who had a pending reservation last time they reallocated points. If they make the new point structure effective May 1, for example, is it only effective for those peoplewho make ressies after May 1. That is, it doesn't effect anyone who's already made ressies based on a certain number of points if their vacation is after May 1. Hope not!

I don't think they could change existing reservations. They have already published the 2004 charts, I don't know if they could do it even then. Maybe starting with 2005. Many people make plans with banking and borrowing points more than a year in advance, it would only be fair to give advance notice.

 

[Richyams]

I know I would use lots more weekends. They do it this way because us Floridians would fill the weekends making it difficult to reserve entire weeks.

As a Floridian, I wish they would even out the days, as a New Yorker, I was against it.

 

[RobDoc]

Originally posted by Simba's Mom
Just wanted to check-for anyone who had a pending reservation last time they reallocated points. If they make the new point structure effective May 1, for example, is it only effective for those peoplewho make ressies after May 1. That is, it doesn't effect anyone who's already made ressies based on a certain number of points if their vacation is after May 1. Hope not!

The 1996 reallocation was announced when the point chart came out for 1996 - in Fall of 1994. Thus, no existing reservations were affected by the changes since the changes were announced more than 11 months in advance.

At this point in time, the earliest any reallocation would likely be made is 2005- since the 2004 point charts have already been announced.

Any changes made will have to balance- any nights where point needs are lowered would have to be balanced with a raise in other nights. They could not lower only weekend needs without raising weekday needs. (They could lower some weekend needs and raise other weekend needs.)

Unless there has been a survey done recently that I'm not aware of, I would be very surprised if there is any reallocation without some input from or explanation to members... but, I've been surprised before.

Stay Tuned!

 

[Dean]

Since I brought it up!

The main piece of info I've heard is that someone at MS told a member that they were going to reallocate, for what it's worth. I'd assume 2005 would be the earliest it could happen since the 04 charts are out even though no reservations have been made with points for 04. If, actually when, they do this, it will likely be with minor changes. I say when because over time there's likely to be enough shift of usage to force adjustments. I'd expect some very minor changes lowering weekends and raising weekdays. Something like say adventure 2 BR which is now 30/60 for a weekly total of 270 points changing to maybe 32/55 also 270 points. I also wouldn't be surprised to see certain times that are adventure now change to Dream (early Dec maybe) and a slight increase overall for Choice and Dream season especially an increase of dream weekday points. Other than weekend, I wouldn't be surprised to see a slight decrease in Premier and magic time.

My understanding is that no one was affected with the previous change who had already pending reservations. The fact that a salesperson promised this wouldn't happen would have no bearing on this situation.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

As a New Yorker who plans 11 months in advance because of school vacations, we are an example of people who try to sneak in an extra weekend night or two. Saturday through Saturday for a total of 8 nights or maybe even catching a late flight on Friday for a total of 9. When we first purchased, we calculated this type of usage into how many points we bought. If they cut down the weekend point cost, we would do better in the long run because of the way we use points.

I don't think they will even it out but wouldn't be surprised if they reduce weekends by a 5-10 points and up the week-days by one or two.

Another theory: I have seen a lot of comments by people who are leaving Disney for the weekend and heading over to Universal. Maybe Disney wants to keep that business.

HBC

 

[Richyams]

I think that people like me, Floridians, would use the weekends even more. I think that Disney's fear of making it difficult for people to book full weeks is very valid. Three or four three day weekends in a GV annually would make a satisfying use of my 430 points. I do think that lowering the weekend points would be a bad thing for this reason.

As a Floridian, I long for lowering weekends.

As a New Yorker, I would fight tooth and nail against any changes.

 

[timC]

I'm gratified to see DVC is taking a thoughtful approach to reallocations, the last change being '96. There are so many factors to account for when planning a change like this.

I'm sure if you analyzed it fully, you'd probably find that any change would be a positive for exactly half the members, and a negative for the other half.

My personal preference would be NO CHANGE. I bought in '99 under this model...I know what to expect... I'm happy.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind it they made MAGIC season a little cheaper

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by timC
I'm gratified to see DVC is taking a thoughtful approach to reallocations, the last change being '96. There are so many factors to account for when planning a change like this.

I'm sure if you analyzed it fully, you'd probably find that any change would be a positive for exactly half the members, and a negative for the other half.

My personal preference would be NO CHANGE. I bought in '99 under this model...I know what to expect... I'm happy.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind it they made MAGIC season a little cheaper

Tim, the goal wouldn't be to make the member happy necessarily. Simply to even out any discrepancies in demand and usage. They have an obligation to keep the usage fairly even in this manner regardless of how it otherwise affects you or I. Obviously the system is not totally broken so I'm sure any eventual changes will be relatively minor from an overall standpoint. OTOH, you should have heard some people affected by the last change, you'd have though DVC had closed it's doors permanently. And I thought those changes were relatively minor.

 

[jcodespoti]

A very interesting thread. I would love to see the bookings for 1 year and see the demand ratios for the Sunday thru Friday crowd versus the Friday-Sunday crowd.



Joe in CT

 

[Granny]

I had to go away for the weekend, and I appreciate all the feedback to my questions.

I really wasn't looking at whether the change was likely, or the rumor had any truth in it....just wanted to start the discussion which did ensue.

Again, I appreciate the thoughtful responses and lack of "arguing".

And a special thanks to Dean....since I quoted a post of his without permission!

I tend to think that if there were to be a reallocation of points, it would be from one season to another rather than weekends to weekdays.

And Dean, another great quote:

Obviously the system is not totally broken so I'm sure any eventual changes will be relatively minor from an overall standpoint. OTOH, you should have heard some people affected by the last change, you'd have though DVC had closed it's doors permanently. And I thought those changes were relatively minor.

Are you saying that sometimes we get a little passionate in our concerns on these boards?