Racial Slur at school....

[FireDancer]

Firedancer,

Do you not see your own contradiction? You don't want different treatment between "fat" and *slur*, but you do want different treatment in other circumstances for similar threatening behavior. In one breath, you advocate for a zero-tolerance policy, and in the next breath decry their usage.

I do not want words banned, but I do want common-sense consequences for their use as abuse. The issues one needs to tackle with a kid calling a classmate a boogerhead are different from the kid calling his classmate a *slur*.

Where am I advocating for zero tolerance? I never want zero tolerance. I want all words treated the exact same which is complete tolerance, the opposite of zero tolerance. Consistency is not the same as zero tolerance.

In my fat vs slur example I was assuming all other aspects of the bullying to be the same (since merely calling someone a name once in a while isn't bullying to me). If all other aspects of the bullying (shoving, knocking down their books, whatever it is) are all the same and the only difference is word choice then a difference in punishment logically is a punishment for word choice. I don't use emotion in decision making, I use logic. If other circumstances are different then of course the totality of the other circumstances should be used to determine a course of action.

And I disagree that there is any difference between calling someone a boogerhead or a slur. In isolation both are merely word chioce. If a parent wants to treat those things differently, that is fine. The government shouldn't.

Firedancer, come out with it, what are you trying to say? No beating around the bush.

I was unaware there was any ambiguity in what I am saying. Bottom line, the government (including public schools) should not ban words. Punishing for word choice is the exact same as banning a word.

Being free to use a word isn't the same as saying the word should be used. My choosing not to use a word doesn't mean others should be forced to do the same.

 

[luvsJack]

There is no right to not be called a name. Getting punched in the face comes past the end of your nose, hearing a word does not.

That word is verbal abuse and that makes it the same thing as getting punched in the nose. Its not just a literal statement. Your rights stop where mine begin and I have the right not to be verbally abused by being called names and so does my child.

It is bullying. And that is a very serious matter. Dangerous things happen in responce to bullying and it is up to the schools to insure these things do not happen. The school has no way of knowing how much of it goes on outside of school, nor do they know which kid will snap. You have obviously never dealt with bullying and no nothing about what name calling can do to a child. We (adults) should protect children and if that means removing someone's "right" to call another child a name then so be it.

 

[ugadog99]

It is bullying. And that is a very serious matter.

I will say this one more time. In a school setting, the "words" we are talking about being used are a form of bullying. Therefore, we must, as a school, take steps to prevent it. Now, what you do in your life away from school is none of my business, but at school, those comments will not, and should not, be tolerated.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Where am I advocating for zero tolerance? I never want zero tolerance. I want all words treated the exact same which is complete tolerance, the opposite of zero tolerance. Consistency is not the same as zero tolerance.

In my fat vs slur example I was assuming all other aspects of the bullying to be the same (since merely calling someone a name once in a while isn't bullying to me). If all other aspects of the bullying (shoving, knocking down their books, whatever it is) are all the same and the only difference is word choice then a difference in punishment logically is a punishment for word choice. I don't use emotion in decision making, I use logic. If other circumstances are different then of course the totality of the other circumstances should be used to determine a course of action.

And I disagree that there is any difference between calling someone a boogerhead or a slur. In isolation both are merely word chioce. If a parent wants to treat those things differently, that is fine. The government shouldn't.



I was unaware there was any ambiguity in what I am saying. Bottom line, the government (including public schools) should not ban words. Punishing for word choice is the exact same as banning a word.

Being free to use a word isn't the same as saying the word should be used. My choosing not to use a word doesn't mean others should be forced to do the same.

From your point-of-view, I guess you wouldn't see the difference between what you term consistency and a zero-tolerance policy. You start with the major premise that all words are equal. I firmly reject that premise. The courts firmly reject that premise. All words are not equal. Boogerhead will never, ever be the same as calling someone a n---. And when you insist that they are the same, you lose credibility.

Punishing a student for using a word to hurt another is not banning a word. It does not prevent the civics, social studies, or English teacher from having an open dialogue about the word, its origin, and its connotation.

 

[luvsJack]

Some things said or done inside a public school should not be handled by them. I see them as an extension of the government and hold them to a very high standard because of that. I am very anti government censorship.

I have no problem with punishing bullying but with punishing words. As I said in a previous post, if all bullying is punished that makes sense. If only bullying using specially designated words is punished it isn't the bullying that is being punished, it is the word. It is a fine line, I admit that, but one I feel should not be crossed.

Bullying is also way to broadly defined. Bullying is not just name calling. People have always been called names and they also will be. Getting physical, stealing lunch money, getting right in someone's face and screaming at them, all of these things are bullying. Repeatedly berating someone over and over again may eventually escalate to bullying but hurting someone's feelings isn't.
We all have something we are made fun of about. For me it was height. I was taught very young (3rd grade to be exact) not to let what other people say or call you change how you feel about yourself and I never did. It is just a part of life and if you are comfortable in your own skin (even the skin of a child) you don't let it bother you. I was the same confident little kid (pun intended) as I am confident adult. If we were all voting for "boy least likely to reach that" I'd have to vote for myself. The word short should not be banned just because it was used to ridicule me. It is just a word and I never gave it any power.

Bullying does not have to include anything physical or taking anything or any of the stuff you have named. Anything that one person does that makes another person feel threatened is bullying. If calling someone a name makes that person feel threatened (and lets be real, calling someone by a racial slur CAN make that person feel threatened. Especially when they are the only one of their race around), then it IS bullying.

 

[luvsJack]

I will say this one more time. In a school setting, the "words" we are talking about being used are a form of bullying. Therefore, we must, as a school, take steps to prevent it. Now, what you do in your life away from school is none of my business, but at school, those comments will not, and should not, be tolerated.

Exactly. I don't understand anyone not getting that. After having a child go through being bullied and the schools taking no action ("just ignore it" type of response), I will always completely support any action the school takes for this type of thing.

 

[tinkntraining]

Bullying does not have to include anything physical or taking anything or any of the stuff you have named. Anything that one person does that makes another person feel threatened is bullying. If calling someone a name makes that person feel threatened (and lets be real, calling someone by a racial slur CAN make that person feel threatened. Especially when they are the only one of their race around), then it IS bullying.

I agree, LuvsJack...but it's even more than that. Snipped from the NIH's website:

"Bullying is when a person or group repeatedly tries to harm someone who is weaker. Sometimes it involves direct attacks such as hitting, name calling, teasing or taunting. Sometimes it is indirect, such as spreading rumors or trying to make others reject someone.

Often people dismiss bullying among kids as a normal part of growing up. But bullying is harmful. It can lead children and teenagers to feel tense and afraid. It may lead them to avoid school. In severe cases, teens who are bullied may feel they need to take drastic measures or react violently. Others even consider suicide. For some, the effects of bullying last a lifetime."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/bullying.html

There's no place for it in our schools.

 

[FireDancer]

From your point-of-view, I guess you wouldn't see the difference between what you term consistency and a zero-tolerance policy. You start with the major premise that all words are equal. I firmly reject that premise. The courts firmly reject that premise. All words are not equal. Boogerhead will never, ever be the same as calling someone a n---. And when you insist that they are the same, you lose credibility.

Punishing a student for using a word to hurt another is not banning a word. It does not prevent the civics, social studies, or English teacher from having an open dialogue about the word, its origin, and its connotation.

Yep, that is exactly what I feel. Words only have the power over you that you choose to give them. Even as a kid I didn't allow getting called something ruin my day/week/life.

You can disagree with me, which is fine. It doesn't make anyone wrong or right. I don't feel others should have to feel what I feel. I am just not afraid of having an opinion and sharing it.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree, LuvsJack...but it's even more than that. Snipped from the NIH's website:

"Bullying is when a person or group repeatedly tries to harm someone who is weaker. Sometimes it involves direct attacks such as hitting, name calling, teasing or taunting. Sometimes it is indirect, such as spreading rumors or trying to make others reject someone.

Often people dismiss bullying among kids as a normal part of growing up. But bullying is harmful. It can lead children and teenagers to feel tense and afraid. It may lead them to avoid school. In severe cases, teens who are bullied may feel they need to take drastic measures or react violently. Others even consider suicide. For some, the effects of bullying last a lifetime."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/bullying.html

There's no place for it in our schools.

Its so sad for kids that are bullied.