Racial Slur at school....

[lillygator]

I still would like to know what was said and how it was handled.

 

[testifyoncruises]

It doesn't mean I use the words or even condone their use. It doesn't mean I would tell my children it is ok to use those slurs or I wouldn't punish them for it. I have a very diverse group of friends and don't use racial, religious, or gay slurs. I think that the government punishing words, and the public schools are an extension of the government, is the problem. The standards I hold the government to when it comes to freedom is much higher then I hold private individuals.

True Dat!

So many are willing to give way too much power to government, but that is getting into the arena of politics which is verboten here at DIS and that is their right as a private entity.

 

[NHdisneylover]

And again I say please re-read what I wrote and then re-read the Constitution before making a jump to conclusion on what a PRIVATE CITIZEN can do or react versus the restrictions put on a representative of the state and as such a representative of the government.

A lesson in history and civics is most definitely in order.

And again to the others throwing around slander and then name calling and making a personal attacks, what hypocrites you are being.

I am SOOOOOOOO glad DP and I homeschool and do not have to put up with some of these ridiculous "zero tolerance" policies. The one time use of a word as described by the OP, again who has not returned to this thread, is not IMHO a form of "bullying".

At no time did I ever address any type of speech by public officials
I have read the constitution, the bill of rights and numerous history and civics texts. I think insinuating that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant of the US constitution (including bill of rights) is very rude.
I agree with you that zero tolerance policies are not a good thing. I think my first post, while not stating that directly essentially says that as I wrote about the ages of the kids, the intent and the history all needing to be taken into consideration when deciding how to react.
You are advocating NO reaction by the school at all no matter what. It appears from a few of your posts that this is what you advocate for any racial slurs even if it is an ongoing thing. If I am misreading this please so say so and then I apologize. If not, then to me--not taking the situation into consideration--and just assuming that it is always okay to ignore this is almost as bad as a zero tolerance rule which assumes it should always result in a suspension. Individual circumstances really need to be looked at in either case.

I am hoping you will answer the question that I posed at the end of the post that you quoted the first half of.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

I have no problem with punishment for bullying, as long as it is a punishment for the act of doing so and not the word choice. For example, if person A calls person B fat while Person C calls Person D the N-word and they are both punished for bullying I think that is justified. If person A is told "Hey, that's not nice" while person C is suspended that is not punishing bullying, it is punishing a word.

As for things changing a lot since I was in school, I have to agree with that and mostly for the worse. Far too often now schools are taking on rolls that should be the parents. It isn't the schools place to punish a child for what is done outside of school (like suspending someone for a Facebook status posted at home) for example. At the same time no tolerance policies are just lazy. Things need to be looked at as individual cases. A kid who brings a Harry Potter wand to school or makes a gun with his fingers is not the same as someone bringing an AK-47 and a grenade.

Using any word in itself is not a problem. We give far too much power to words anyway. Can using a word escalate to bullying, absolutely. It isn't the word that is the problem, it is the context and the intent all working together to form a whole.

It doesn't mean I use the words or even condone their use. It doesn't mean I would tell my children it is ok to use those slurs or I wouldn't punish them for it. I have a very diverse group of friends and don't use racial, religious, or gay slurs. I think that the government punishing words, and the public schools are an extension of the government, is the problem. The standards I hold the government to when it comes to freedom is much higher then I hold private individuals.



The Bill of Rights are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. All of the amendments become part of the constitution once they are ratified in the same way a room you add onto your house after it is built is still part of the house.

Hey, I actually agree with this!! But the racial slurs we are discussing were uttered within the walls of the school. So I still say that the school has to keep order, immediately. Not by sending a note home and hope the parents will address it sometime soon. The kids must know that this is not tolerated at school. Even if it's just to say, "Don't ever say that word in school again!"


ETA: I wanted to amend my agreement with part of your post to say that terrorist threats to the school posted on Facebook or such would be cause for police investigation.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I have no problem with punishment for bullying, as long as it is a punishment for the act of doing so and not the word choice. For example, if person A calls person B fat while Person C calls Person D the N-word and they are both punished for bullying I think that is justified. If person A is told "Hey, that's not nice" while person C is suspended that is not punishing bullying, it is punishing a word.

As for things changing a lot since I was in school, I have to agree with that and mostly for the worse. Far too often now schools are taking on rolls that should be the parents. It isn't the schools place to punish a child for what is done outside of school (like suspending someone for a Facebook status posted at home) for example. At the same time no tolerance policies are just lazy. Things need to be looked at as individual cases. A kid who brings a Harry Potter wand to school or makes a gun with his fingers is not the same as someone bringing an AK-47 and a grenade.
Using any word in itself is not a problem. We give far too much power to words anyway. Can using a word escalate to bullying, absolutely. It isn't the word that is the problem, it is the context and the intent all working together to form a whole.

It doesn't mean I use the words or even condone their use. It doesn't mean I would tell my children it is ok to use those slurs or I wouldn't punish them for it. I have a very diverse group of friends and don't use racial, religious, or gay slurs. I think that the government punishing words, and the public schools are an extension of the government, is the problem. If someone were to ask "Should we teach religion in public school" the answer would be no, and I would agree. It is because the schools are an extension of the government and should not promote religion. I hold them to that same standard in this case. I am not willing to say they are an extension of the government for religion but not for speech. They either are or they aren't. The standards I hold the government to when it comes to freedom is much higher then I hold private individuals.



The Bill of Rights are the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. All of the amendments become part of the constitution once they are ratified in the same way a room you add onto your house after it is built is still part of the house.

I completly agree with the bolded. Schools have no business punishing students for anything done not during school or a school sponosred activity. I think that is a horrible trend which needs to stop. In the few instances in which what is done outside of school is a true threat--then the police should be getting involved, rather than the school punishing the student. However, things done IN school (or AT school events like basketballs games--even away games) are the school's business. Your posts seem to indicate taht even things said and done inside the school should not be handeld by the school. I still wonder what ahppens if the parents whom you feel need to be notified and then handle it will not or cannot stop the behaviour. AT what point (if ever) do you think the school has a right to punish this type of behaviour when it is occuring at school?

 

[NHdisneylover]

Sorry but I do not answer questions based on unrealistic what-ifs and jump to conclusions that are not germane to the question by the OP. REREAD what the OP wrote and that is the only thing I have to comment on and feel a need to comment.

As I say again, in the situation as posted by the OP, the best course of action I believe FOR THE SCHOOL on a 1 student against another 1 student racial slur situation would be to IGNORE it.

Okay. That is your perogative. I only asked (as stated) because your previous posts made it sound like you thoguht the school should always ignore such slurs. I will say that other than you planning on continuing to homeschool, the scenariois not really "unrealistic." Many kids of same sex couples excperience very simialr situations. I have seen it happen.

To me the best course of action for the shcool to take in the situation in the OP IF it is an isolated incident (not made clear by the post at all) is to talk to the student and make it clear that the word in question is not to be used at school. It is language which is not appropriate in school and the child should be made aware of it.

 

[FireDancer]

I completly agree with the bolded. Schools have no business punishing students for anything done not during school or a school sponosred activity. I think that is a horrible trend which needs to stop. In the few instances in which what is done outside of school is a true threat--then the police should be getting involved, rather than the school punishing the student. However, things done IN school (or AT school events like basketballs games--even away games) are the school's business. Your posts seem to indicate taht even things said and done inside the school should not be handeld by the school. I still wonder what ahppens if the parents whom you feel need to be notified and then handle it will not or cannot stop the behaviour. AT what point (if ever) do you think the school has a right to punish this type of behaviour when it is occuring at school?

Some things said or done inside a public school should not be handled by them. I see them as an extension of the government and hold them to a very high standard because of that. I am very anti government censorship.

I have no problem with punishing bullying but with punishing words. As I said in a previous post, if all bullying is punished that makes sense. If only bullying using specially designated words is punished it isn't the bullying that is being punished, it is the word. It is a fine line, I admit that, but one I feel should not be crossed.

Bullying is also way to broadly defined. Bullying is not just name calling. People have always been called names and they also will be. Getting physical, stealing lunch money, getting right in someone's face and screaming at them, all of these things are bullying. Repeatedly berating someone over and over again may eventually escalate to bullying but hurting someone's feelings isn't.

We all have something we are made fun of about. For me it was height. I was taught very young (3rd grade to be exact) not to let what other people say or call you change how you feel about yourself and I never did. It is just a part of life and if you are comfortable in your own skin (even the skin of a child) you don't let it bother you. I was the same confident little kid (pun intended) as I am confident adult. If we were all voting for "boy least likely to reach that" I'd have to vote for myself. The word short should not be banned just because it was used to ridicule me. It is just a word and I never gave it any power.

 

[testifyoncruises]

Okay. That is your perogative. I only asked (as stated) because your previous posts made it sound like you thoguht the school should always ignore such slurs. I will say that other than you planning on continuing to homeschool, the scenariois not really "unrealistic." Many kids of same sex couples excperience very simialr situations. I have seen it happen.

And as I have stated in upthread, DD has already experienced people casting slurs at DP and I for our lifestyle. She is being taught of the ignorance of others and to basically feel sorry for those who engage in such behavior.

She has also used words she did not mean when she is frustrated or angry like "You are the worst mommy in the world" when not getting her way. While they may hurt, the best way DP and I feel is to ignore such words and not give her the satisfaction of seeing a response.

It is why I feel so strongly about this one situation that the OP, who again has still not returned to this thread, has described. It should be ignored plain and simple. As described, this is not a threat, a violent act but nothing more than a word (which we dont know what was actually used).

 

[NHdisneylover]

And as I have stated in upthread, DD has already experienced people casting slurs at DP and I for our lifestyle. She is being taught of the ignorance of others and to basically feel sorry for those who engage in such behavior.
She has also used words she did not mean when she is frustrated or angry like "You are the worst mommy in the world" when not getting her way. While they may hurt, the best way DP and I feel is to ignore such words and not give her the satisfaction of seeing a response.

It is why I feel so strongly about this one situation that the OP, who again has still not returned to this thread, has described. It should be ignored plain and simple. As described, this is not a threat, a violent act but nothing more than a word (which we dont know what was actually used).

I relaly am sorry she and you and your DP have had do experiences such hatred. I truly am. Such behaviour really infuriates and saddens me. So, from your own experience you know that such things are not "unrealistc" after all?
As I have tried to point out again and again on this thread, there is a huge difference between a child experiencing these things in a situation she can leave (assuming these things happend somewhere that you and DP could take your daughter and leave if that is how you chose to handle it) and a child experiencing these thigns in a school she HAS to attend and HAS to stay at for the rest of the day and return to the next day, etc.

 

[hedgehog2owl]

Actually a pot stirrer who enjoys the controversy. Getting kind of boring actually.

 

[lillygator]

that the OP, who again has still not returned to this thread, has described. It should be ignored plain and simple. As described, this is not a threat, a violent act but nothing more than a word (which we dont know what was actually used).

Exactly and I doubt they will.

 

[luvsJack]

The problem with one child calling another child a racial slur or relegious slur or sexual orientation slur or any other name that kids will use, is not what the name caller will do but what the one being called a name can do in retaliation.

Racial (or any other kind of) slurs are bullying. Bullying should not be allowed and the bully should be sent home or at least out of the classroom.

Zero tolerance can be crazy in some areas, not in bullying. For YEARS the only thing aduts would say about bullying is "stay away from him/her", "just ignore it". And then you have kids coming to school with guns and shooting up the cafeteria, like happened in Pearl MS. Bullying can result in a mulitude of things, none of which are good; and it was finally realized. Now action is taken and taken quickly--that is a good thing.

And all this talk of free speech is just hog wash. No one has the right to abuse other people. Racial slurs and bullying are a form of abuse. So you can sit here all day long and argue about the rights of the citizens of the US or what should or shouldn't be controlled by the government; but your rights and freedoms stop at the end of my nose and calling me a name comes well past the end of my nose.


In answer to the question: In dd's school, if a child is heard using a racial slur the parent is called and the child is sent home for the rest of the day, second offence can be in school suspension and after that a 3 day at home suspension.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

Firedancer,

Do you not see your own contradiction? You don't want different treatment between "fat" and *slur*, but you do want different treatment in other circumstances for similar threatening behavior. In one breath, you advocate for a zero-tolerance policy, and in the next breath decry their usage.

I do not want words banned, but I do want common-sense consequences for their use as abuse. The issues one needs to tackle with a kid calling a classmate a boogerhead are different from the kid calling his classmate a *slur*.


Amber,

If you encourage your DD to walk away and not engage with busybodies, why didn't you do the same? I mean, sticks and stones and all. Right?


OP,

I'm guessing that my child's school would pull the offender to the side and discuss the inappropriateness of the behavior. With repeat offenses, I'm sure there would be increased consequences.

 

[FireDancer]

but your rights and freedoms stop at the end of my nose and calling me a name comes well past the end of my nose.

There is no right to not be called a name. Getting punched in the face comes past the end of your nose, hearing a word does not.

 

[Robinrs]

So, what exactly do you do besides flirt with teachers and homeschool?

Come to a Disney board and incite mess.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Do you HONESTLY believe it's the same thing?

I call my friend a B word, we laugh. If a guy on the street called her one... well, the OPPOSITE would happen.

It's the INTENT.

It's either wrong or it isn't.

I'm afraid it can't be both ways. It waters down that the word that is supposed to be bad truly isn't--even though it is.

By your definition--it would seem a white person could call a white person the N word and be okay--b/c the intent wasn't to harm the other.

 

[Robinrs]

It's either wrong or it isn't.

I'm afraid it can't be both ways. It waters down that the word that is supposed to be bad truly isn't--even though it is.

By your definition--it would seem a white person could call a white person the N word and be okay--b/c the intent wasn't to harm the other.

Why do I bother?

 

[testifyoncruises]

There is no right to not be called a name. Getting punched in the face comes past the end of your nose, hearing a word does not.

We had a situation a few years back where a teacher had brought a statue of Vishnu to be used as part of the day's lesson and one kid started in about the svastika and it just exploded.

Talk about ignorance. It is not just words that get people up in arms, it is symbols too. It is part of the many many reasons why DD is homeschooled by DP.

 

[Boxley]

Firedancer,

Do you not see your own contradiction? You don't want different treatment between "fat" and *slur*, but you do want different treatment in other circumstances for similar threatening behavior. In one breath, you advocate for a zero-tolerance policy, and in the next breath decry their usage.

I do not want words banned, but I do want common-sense consequences for their use as abuse. The issues one needs to tackle with a kid calling a classmate a boogerhead are different from the kid calling his classmate a *slur*.


Amber,

If you encourage your DD to walk away and not engage with busybodies, why didn't you do the same? I mean, sticks and stones and all. Right?

.

Firedancer, come out with it, what are you trying to say? No beating around the bush.

Amber..that name seems familiar. Were you not banned before?

 

[testifyoncruises]

..