quick little rant on SWA boarding

[DutchsMommy]

I think it's funny the things people will stress about - and accost others about - and presumably most of these people are going on vacation. Not my idea of a nice way to start my vacation! And, if I was shelly3girls my blood would have been boiling too - how people can be so downright ride is beyond me - however I probably would have smiled sweetly and flipped them the bird

 

[beccasmom]

SW just started flying out of Philly within the last year and I’ve only used them once going to WDW and back. I was meeting the rest of my family in Florida and had logged online early to get an ‘A’ seating pass. I got to Philly International very early and people were sitting around waiting. However, once the SW rep arrived, I couldn’t believe the way nearly everyone leapt to their feet and streamed over to the gates! The pre-boarding gate line was extremely long. My heart sank and I felt a bit like a sucker for staying up late to print out an ‘A’ pass.

However, I ended up sitting in row 6. My only thought is that some folks enjoy sitting in the back of the plane and not everyone clamors for a seat in the front, which is my preference. However, I also knew that seats were first come, first served on SW, so I wasn’t going to go ballistic about it. My thought was that I would try to get an ‘A’ boarding pass and hope for the best. What I had not noticed is that the gate agent was extremely firm in denying early boarding to those who did not meet the criteria – which was families with kids under age 6 and those who needed assistance with boarding (like the gal wearing an ankle cast). My guess is that not every agent is so aggressive with regards to the rules. And I also heard nasty remarks (from the crowd) about the folks in wheelchairs possibly being bogus…..unbelievable!

I faced the same issue on my return trip. However, it was amplified by the fact that many folks were trying to leave MCO early because of the hurricane which was threatening to hit the area (and did the next day – 8/13). I was leaving Orlando on my scheduled day out . A strong thunderstorm hit the area around the time we were set to leave and our flight was delayed. When we had been cleared to leave, the rules for pre-boarding were families with kids 4 and younger. The line was unbelievable. However, my seat ended up being in row 8, which I thought was great. And again the gate agent turned away families with older kids. So I guess much depends on the rules and who is upholding them. Both of my trips ended up happily for me, but I can absolutely see many opportunities for abuse of the system when it comes to pre-boarding. I will be interested to hear the new guidelines.

 

[Brian Noble]

I also heard nasty remarks (from the crowd) about the folks in wheelchairs possibly being bogus

And this is why, even if it would save me a few dollars, I simply won't fly SWA. Cattle call boarding is a stressful way to start and end a vacation.

 

[Magic2000]

We flew SW out of New Orleans on Dec 8 (6:50 AM flight). We arrived at the airport around 5:15 AM, and DH dropped me and DD off to check in while he did the "park & ride". We got A boarding passes, and there was one family with two small kids that pre-boarded. The plane only had maybe 30 people or so!!!

On our return flight from Orlando Dec 12 (11:20 AM flight), we arrived around 9:00 AM and the line to check in at SW was unbelievable!!! I've never seen a line so long in all my life!!!!!!! It went way into the waiting area!! DH checked our luggage curbside and I printed our boarding passes at the terminal. We got the A passes again. And although this flight was FULL, I didn't hear anybody asking anyone to switch seats.

Pre-boarding was unbelievable! There were many people with older children and lots of extended family.

A few years ago when we flew SW, if you preboarded, you had to sit in rows 14 and back. It really helped a lot because you weren't blocking anybody while trying to get your child settled in.

But, I do love SW - our flights have always been on time and the flight attendants have always been wonderful!!!! Their fares are some of the lowest I've found, and when I've called around - they've had the best fares and the only direct flight! They also have good flight times - we like to leave early in the morning, and late morning/early afternoon flight home. Works great!!!!

 

[debster812]

I just flew back to Orlando from Manchester last night. WHEW, what a full flight. I wasn't sure if I was going to get a seat with myself or not. We had a whopping 23 people on the flight!! Everyone got thier own full row... lol

DS's first experience flying was this. We were on the last SWA flight out of PVD on a Saturday. There were 24 people booked on the flight. 18 of them actually showed up!!!!! DS enjoyed having a big time fuss made over him, and we really enjoyed the extra room.

 

[BigTigger]

Airlines and pre-boarding are another thing that is backwards from what should be done. Anyone that is infirm should be boarded last in case the plane needs to be cleared for some reason, they are then not stuck on the plane and in harms way. Airlines like SWA that don't give reserved seats in general should in these cases so the person can board and not have to worry about seats. No airline in the world allows people with young kids, the elderly, and the infirm to pre-deplane. In fact they announce for them to stay in their seats and the staff will help them after the regular crowd shuffles out.

As far as kids pre-boarding, if they can walk they should join the herd. Infants can be carried so they can join the herd too. I have four children and when they were young we didn't pre-board as I didn't feel we "needed a little extra time".

I'm premier and elite status on three airlines. If I'm not upgraded to business, then I will pre-board under that call as I've earned the right through many seat miles at premium prices. That is a lot different than the general pre-board critieria.

Flame away, this is my two cents and I'm spending it.

 

[shelly3girls]

BigTigger -
I don't necessarily disagree except concerning families using carseats. It is very difficult to make it down the center aisle with a carseat especially if people are seated in the aisle. It is very difficult to handle two young children while each adult carries a carseat let alone trying not to hit these people. I think the only reason we need to pre-board is b/c of the seat. In fact if we did not have the seats I would rather wait and have to spend less time sitting and waiting.
I don't care where I sit on a plane as long as I am sitting with my children. The problem I face is that because of the carseat we cannot sit in an emergency exit row, within one row of an emergency exit row, and the carseat must be in a window seat. I have been on a USAir flight when an agent accidently put us one row behind the emergency exit. It took the agent 15 minutes to find someone willing to move so that just my DD and I could sit somewhere else. We were not even asking for all four of us to move together. I would imagine it could get very messy trying to seat several families with carseats with limited seats available.

 

[kldmom2000]

Airlines and pre-boarding are another thing that is backwards from what should be done. Anyone that is infirm should be boarded last in case the plane needs to be cleared for some reason, they are then not stuck on the plane and in harms way. Airlines like SWA that don't give reserved seats in general should in these cases so the person can board and not have to worry about seats. No airline in the world allows people with young kids, the elderly, and the infirm to pre-deplane. In fact they announce for them to stay in their seats and the staff will help them after the regular crowd shuffles out.

As far as kids pre-boarding, if they can walk they should join the herd. Infants can be carried so they can join the herd too. I have four children and when they were young we didn't pre-board as I didn't feel we "needed a little extra time".

I'm premier and elite status on three airlines. If I'm not upgraded to business, then I will pre-board under that call as I've earned the right through many seat miles at premium prices. That is a lot different than the general pre-board critieria.

Flame away, this is my two cents and I'm spending it.

Just wondering if you ever had to deal with carseats with your kids or if they were old enough to avoid needing them on the plane since the FAA pretty much requires them now?? I'm not sure if you've ever attempted to lug 2 massive car seats on board a plane and get them properly installed in WINDOW seats in time before the plane got ready to depart.... this is my first experience both with SWA and flying with toddlers and I couldn't get over the lack of time the plane actually spent at the gate-no sooner were we on that they boarded the A, B, and C's and we pulled away-I didn't even have the 2nd carseat properly buckled at that point! I'm not condoning the people who misuse the preboarding-I think that's a disgrace-I also could care less where our seats were located on the plane-just as long as "I" was sitting with my young girls (unless someone else wanted to keep them entertained for me for 3 hours????? ) I actually didn't know anything about the preboarding until we printed our boarding passes out online and there wasn't a seat # listed-I've only flown Delta in the past and I personally think not assigning seats is just asking for problems.

 

[BigTigger]

Just wondering if you ever had to deal with carseats with your kids or if they were old enough to avoid needing them on the plane since the FAA pretty much requires them now??

Sorry folks. They weren't required when my kids were young in the mid 90's and before. I see the point and can't suggest a good answer there. It's too bad that planes don't have fold out seats like minvans for the little tikes. I have helped a few mothers with young kids carry the seat into the plane as her hands were full with baby, diaper bag, etc. Maybe SWA needs a pre-board for people with car seats to install - to get on the plane, you and only you need a car seat. That way if an adult tries this route (like the so called fake wheelchair), they have to sit in the car seat the whole flight

Even though the seats are bulky, they aren't as bad as the road warriors that have the rolling luggage with a computer bag on top that roll onto the plane. I've seen (and been slammed into) by travelers boarding with these notional carry-ons as tall as them so they don't have to check luggage. My fix for this is to make the rule that you can carry-on what you can carry - not roll. Only Arnold could bend this rule and live (without back problems) to tell

 

[Betty Breed]

I didn't know that car seats were required by the FAA. We flew Continental in October with my then 3 yr old DGS and asked if we had to bring a car seat and the reservation agent said it wasn't necessary. We flew to MCO and home without one and no one said anything.

 

[WillCAD]

I've only flown SWA on three trips, but I've never seen abuse of the pre-board system.

However, my biggest complaint in any boarding is that the plane should be filled from the rear forward to speed the process. And those who take the longest getting on and off should be those in the back of the plane. It takes much longer to get on with people blocking the aisles to get thier kids seated, put thier luggage in the overhead bins, and pull blankets and pillows out.

Likewise, it takes forever for some people to get themselves unpacked and ready to get off the plane, but I can be out in 3 seconds; why do I have to stand there forever waiting when I am ready to go and get out of everyone elses way?

The plane should be divided into sections; pre-boards should go to the rear, then groups A-B-C should be restricted to one section each so that you don't have to get past those who got on before you. Or reverse it so that group C goes on first, then group B, then group A, so that those who have the good A-group get to get off the plane first.

I don;t care if I get ON the plane last, as long as I can get OFF the plane first.

 

[DebbieB]

I didn't know that car seats were required by the FAA. We flew Continental in October with my then 3 yr old DGS and asked if we had to bring a car seat and the reservation agent said it wasn't necessary. We flew to MCO and home without one and no one said anything.

They are not required. A woman sat with a lap baby across the aisle from us last Friday night on Air Tran. The baby was 8 1/2 months old (someone asked).

 

[NotUrsula]

The FAA does not require carseats, but they do recommend their use for any child who weighs less than 40 lbs. Some airlines (Delta comes to mind) will tell you that they (the airline) ARE requiring them in cases where a separate seat has been purchased for a child who is under 2 yrs. old.

Carseats have been proven to save children's lives in incidents of severe turbulence, in hard landings, and in on-ground collisions. Weird as it sounds, the reason that the FAA has chosen not to require them is that statistically, air travel is safer than automobile travel even without the carseat. They believe that if they required carseats (thus requiring the purchase of a seat for a child under age 2) then families who might otherwise have flown will drive, and in so-doing put themselves in a statistically more dangerous mode of transport. Only a bureaucrat would think that made any sense at all.

 

[swilphil]

As far as kids pre-boarding, if they can walk they should join the herd. Infants can be carried so they can join the herd too. I have four children and when they were young we didn't pre-board as I didn't feel we "needed a little extra time".

I'm premier and elite status on three airlines. If I'm not upgraded to business, then I will pre-board under that call as I've earned the right through many seat miles at premium prices. That is a lot different than the general pre-board critieria.

Does everyone understand that in the past all airlines had assigned seats so pre-boarding with young kids wasn't necessary? Without assigned seats, kids may not be able to sit with their parents. If you would like to take care of my VERY active (and sometimes whiney) 2 year old and 4 year old sons during our flight, you are welcome to 'em. DH and I will be glad to sit at the back of the plane in peace and have a leisurely glass of wine

Are you saying that you pre-board at the same time as those with disabilities and young children JUST because you spend more money on flights? You certainly think you are deserving of a lot of extra special attention.

 

[BigTigger]

Are you saying that you pre-board at the same time as those with disabilities and young children JUST because you spend more money on flights? You certainly think you are deserving of a lot of extra special attention.

I think you missed my point. On real airlines that assign seats, they call for those needing extra time to board. Then they call the first and/or business class passengers who paid for the privilege of boarding first. Then they call the elite frequent flyer club members who got that way by spending lots of money on previous flights with the airline. Then they call the people who paid $79 for their ticket. I have no remorse in boarding ahead of the discount ticket buyers - they get what they paid for. United, Delta, and Virgin Atlantic seem to think that way too as that is how they board the planes. You can say that United and Delta are old school and don't count, but Virgin is the one airline that always beats SWA in the surveys for customer satisfaction. I bet Virgin won't use cattle car boarding when their discount carrier opens up this spring in the US.

I agree that you should get to sit with your 2 and 4 year old. My problem is with SWA and the cattle car boarding, not with a family wanting to travel together. I'd suggest you vote with your wallet and fly another airline that gives out confirmed seats. I know that isn't easy in the heartland these days with airline consolidation, but if you give your business to SWA then they are going to think they have it right with the cattle car boarding and won't change. Leaving it up to gate agents to police who pre-boards and who doesn't when the whole plane is first come first served is just plain ridiculous. I think that SWA's philosophy is that we're cheap and the cattle call is one of the reasons we stay that way. Song and Ted prove that isn't true as both are just as efficient at turning around a plane as SWA.

 

[disneyldwjr]

I think you missed my point. On real airlines that assign seats, they call for those needing extra time to board. Then they call the first and/or business class passengers who paid for the privilege of boarding first. Then they call the elite frequent flyer club members who got that way by spending lots of money on previous flights with the airline. Then they call the people who paid $79 for their ticket. I have no remorse in boarding ahead of the discount ticket buyers - they get what they paid for. United, Delta, and Virgin Atlantic seem to think that way too as that is how they board the planes. You can say that United and Delta are old school and don't count, but Virgin is the one airline that always beats SWA in the surveys for customer satisfaction. I bet Virgin won't use cattle car boarding when their discount carrier opens up this spring in the US.

I agree that you should get to sit with your 2 and 4 year old. My problem is with SWA and the cattle car boarding, not with a family wanting to travel together. I'd suggest you vote with your wallet and fly another airline that gives out confirmed seats. I know that isn't easy in the heartland these days with airline consolidation, but if you give your business to SWA then they are going to think they have it right with the cattle car boarding and won't change. Leaving it up to gate agents to police who pre-boards and who doesn't when the whole plane is first come first served is just plain ridiculous. I think that SWA's philosophy is that we're cheap and the cattle call is one of the reasons we stay that way. Song and Ted prove that isn't true as both are just as efficient at turning around a plane as SWA.

You have valid points. However, SWA must be doing something rights as they are the ONLY US airline making money and not facing possible bankruptcy. They are the ONLY US airline that does not cancel flights, change equipment or seating assignments.
I do vote with my wallet and vote for SWA. They have the right to board anyway they want and have been in business for about 30 years. It has worked for them for this long and I assume because it is not broken they are not going to fix it.
The gate agents should be adhereing to the guidelines and policies set down by the company. It is unfortunate that it is not more uniform, but, what in business is?

 

[belleandthebeast]

I do have to say that I have flown US Airway WITH assigned seats. I checked the seats assignments regularly for any changes. I was flying w/ my sister who was 15yo. It was her 1st time flying. She was a nervous wreck. I wasn't sure if she was going to throw up or pass out.

We check in 2 hours prior to departure time. Our assigned seats are right next to each other (as they had been since I booked our flights).

We board the plane and there was an elderly woman seated in my seat. I informed the flight attendant that she was in my seat. THe FA came to the seat and informed the woman she was in the wrong seat. Her seat was across the aisle where her friend was sitting. She INSISTED that she was sitting right there and neither her nor her friend were moving. I informed the FA that it was my sister's 1st time flying and she was very very nervous. Keep in mind the elderly woman was seated on the plane 1st so whoever had seated her knew that she was in the wrong seat! Needless to say the flight attendant did not make her move and we had to switch seating. THank goodness my cousin was flying w/ us and that the seat next to his son was empty otherwise my sister would have had to sit by herself. I sat by myself. I would not have a problem splitting us up now because my sister loved flying and can't wait to do it again. I'm sure that very very rude woman wouldn't have been to happy if my sister did have to sit next to her and she did get sick. Also, If that had been a 30 year old man, the FA would have made him move.

The moral of this long story is that even when seats are assigned, they aren't guarantee. I believe Tyler stated this 2 pages ago and he is absolutely correct.

 

[NotUrsula]

On my last 4 family flights on legacy carriers (AA & UAL) I was not given seat assignments until at least 24 hrs out, and not for lack of calling, I assure you. All of these seats were discounted fares purchased w/i 21 days of departure. In every case, my family was separated. Luckily, DS (7) is an experienced flier; he was busy listening to music or reading and sitting apart from his parents is not a big deal to him.

Also in every case, at least one family member was seated next to an airline employee who was deadheading the flight. The employees were, without exception, sitting in aisle seats. The pilot sitting next to me on one AA flight got a few items passed over him when DH & I mixed up our bags, and he asked why we were not seated together. I told him that we understood that the flight was so full that the only seats available were middles. Know what he said? "When did you hear that?" "Yesterday", I told him. He then proceeded to tell me that there were *18* airline employees on the flight, and that ALL of them had been told that morning what flight they would be travelling on.

Now I understand that the aisle seats are nice for travelling airline employees, and maybe even helps w/ security, but I defy anyone to convince me that an airlines' customer service profile is in any way improved by separating paying passengers from their ticketed 7 yo children while putting 18 non-revenue passengers in the best available seats?

Over and above their pricing structure, I prefer to fly SWA domestically because SWA is always honest with me, and they are honest about what I'm paying for and what I'm getting: a seat. They don't lie about the availability of seats or the reason for delays, and they don't string me along with mileage programs that end up being well-nigh useless. If I care about where I sit, the probability of getting that seat is almost entirely in my hands, and all it costs me is a little effort.

As to Virgin, you do know that they only pre-assign 60% of the seats on each flight? Quite a lot of passengers have to wait until 24 hours before boarding to get their seat assignments. It doesn't separate families b/c UK law requires that children 12 and under be seated within arms' reach of the adult travelling with them. (Note that US law has no such requirement, so Virgin's domestic US service, if it becomes reality, won't assure family seating the way their UK-based flights do. Also, I don't expect their Economy seat pitch to become more generous, either.)

 

[lindaso]

It doesn't separate families b/c UK law requires that children 12 and under be seated within arms' reach of the adult travelling with them. (Note that US law has no such requirement, so Virgin's domestic US service, if it becomes reality, won't assure family seating the way their UK-based flights do.

This is very interesting. Has this law ever been proposed in the US? I'm impressed that your 7 year old was OK sitting by himself. My 7 year old DD also has flown numerous times and she would be freaked out beyond belief if she had to sit by herself. I think all 3 of my kids would be hysterical. I will have to start working with them on that possibility after our carseat/preboarding days are over.

 

[swilphil]

I think you missed my point. On real airlines that assign seats, they call for those needing extra time to board....

I was confused about whether you were boarding with the pre-board group of kids/disabled or boarding with the pre-board business class. I apologize but when you said "I will pre-board with that call," I wasn't sure what group you were talking about.

As far as SWA, why aren't they a real airline? I seem to remember flying on a REAL airplane with a REAL pilot. I like them for their competitive prices and their record for fewer delays. As the previous poster said, they also seem to be one of the few airlines that has a solid business record. I don't want to have to worry about booking a flight 4 months in advance, and the airline not being in existence by the time my trip rolls around. I also find the Flight Attendants to be very pleasant and funny.

Also, you say that I should be able to sit with my 2 year old and 4 year old, but that if families have kids that walk, they shouldn't be allowed to pre-board. The only way on a full Southwest airplane that I can assure sitting with my kids is if we pre-board.